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[empty vessel]

I understand you are frustrated that the employer based model is still intact, but the voters WANTED it to stay intact. They didn't want a radical (not saying radical is bad) change.

That's false. Americans have long supported nationalizing health insurance.

http://www.wpasinglepayer.org/PollResults.html

 

[Cyan]

You could do a similar thing with GWB's accomplishments. Plenty of instances of funding, spending bills, protection of rights and the environment, tax cuts and on and on.

In the end, you are only remembered for the big ticket items and economy.

Do Not Call list, fuck yeah!

 

[-PXG-]

The progressive agenda hit a road block today, but it's not the end of the world. Now is the time to analyze the electoral map, focus on policies that appeal to segments of the populace you want to influence, sell the positive benefits of those policies, and work hard to turn public opinion around. It's time for Democrats to focus on pushing policy that appeals to the popular majority, and work hard to ensure that Republicans don't take charge of setting the agenda. Democrats still control the Presidency and the Senate, don't forget that.

Yeah, I really hope this puts a fire under their asses and makes them push and sell their agendas and not allow Republicans to take over, spin shit, chew and spit everything out.

 

[SouthernDragon]

Fuck.

Now I really want to move to California or New York. : /

 

[Kitschkraft]

Pro-tip: The Prez can veto legislation. In other words, Republicans can't get anything made into law if the President doesn't approve it.

The only thing the Republican Congress can actually do the next two years is pass a budget and hold countless pointless investigations.

The prez is a democrat, one that pretty much epitomizes the "softness" I spoke of.

Would not be surprised at all if this thing faces massive roll backs, regardless of the obstacles at hand. I understand full well that it would need to go through both the Senate and the White House, I just don't have very much faith in these people anymore. The republicans are certainly going to throw everything they can at the WH to at least modify that bill.

It's posts like this that make me want to just stop voting Democrat. Can't believe you want to call the rest of the country "reactionary", did you even fucking read what you wrote? Good fucking god.

Can't describe it any other way when the people who brought you "death panels", "health care is socialism", "American exceptionalism", and a host of other horse shit wins so triumphantly. Stupid, frightened, incompetent people.

 

[mckmas8808]

You can't dissolve the entire Obama administration to a single number.

What about the fact that the economy has been growing for quite a long time now? Why is it that everyone bitches about "9.5!!11"? It's 4% above the natural rate--and that 4% are getting their unemployment benefits like everyone else (which, by the way, the Republicans wanted to curtail unemployment benefits as if the money jobless people receive isn't automatically re-injected into the economy).

Hey I understand that. It's that the average American doesn't care if you stop the country from going into a depression. After two years they don't say, "Wheww thanks guys for saving this country's economy."

No they say, "fuck why aren't things back to normal (i.e. 6% unemployment). Now I'm not saying their way of thinking is right or wrong. It's just the facts. People want to feel secure with their job, their home, and their future. And right now that ain't happening.

That's false. Americans have long supported nationalizing health insurance.

http://www.wpasinglepayer.org/PollResults.html

So why were people so against it last year when it wasn't even truly up for a vote?

 

[Gaborn]

only big disappoint is prop 19 and the Iowa judges being recalled. As for the rest of it? Meh, I think the Dems deserved to be punished but it'll be interesting to watch the Reps do nothing different than they did under Bush.

 

[GhaleonEB]

Hey Multnomah County, count your effing ballots, please.

 

[thekad]

You could do a similar thing with GWB's accomplishments. Plenty of instances of funding, spending bills, protection of rights and the environment, tax cuts and on and on.

In the end, you are only remembered for the big ticket items and economy.

Managing Bush's bailouts, health care reform, cutting the deficit, pulling out of Iraq, turning the economy around. Those are pretty big.

I don't think it's a messaging problem if no one cares.

 

[YoungHav]

My Fox News zombie father-in-law is coming to visit for a week, should be hectic in this household. He just dropped this gem this morning, "If Obama can call us Republicans the enemy, then why can't we call Muslims the enemy?". Aaaargh.

 

[npm0925]

Except increase the cost of mine and all of my co-workers. The Obama health care legislation is being used an excuse to double the rates of my existing health care insurance next year.

Yep. Now my premiums are going up, and I will have to pay 10% of the cost of a hospital stay on top of the copayment. All that extra money going to support trash legislation like Obama care. Obama promised big but delivered small, and the electorate has remembered it. If the GOP puts forth a sane, qualified candidate in 2012 I think Obama could be a 1-term president.

 

[kaching]

Can you blame them? What has Obama accomplished that he can hang his hat on to motivate young people to vote? End either war? Nope. End DADT? Nope. Shut down Gitmo? Nope. Reduce unemployment? Nope. Jumpstart a massive 'green jobs' initiative? Nope.

Honestly; why should people be "excited" about Obama at this point? Other than passing incomprehensible healthcare reform that won't even go into full-effect for several more years, and nobody understands, the average person can't point to a single legislative accomplishment that transcends run of the mill politics for most people.

I wasn't suggesting that people should come out and vote out of some particular party or candidate loyalty/enthusiasm, just that they vote. Vote for the best possible options available, regardless of whether it conforms with your party affiliations.

This kneejerk cycle of simply voting the party out of majority who didn't get all the problems fixed in their time in power isn't working either and the people who choose not to vote and just let that continue to happen are complicit in that. Yes, I blame them.

 

[ToxicAdam]

That's the thing. Those are actually big ticket items. Now you may say they aren't (and it's all subjective), but they are.

Obama's big ticket items are the stimulus bill and HCR. Two topics that almost every Democrat ran away from this past month. Neither of which are viewed as creating jobs.

I'm not saying that is fair, I'm just saying that's the reality.

I don't think it's a messaging problem if no one cares.

Okay. Fair enough.

 

[gutter_trash]

only big disappoint is prop 19 and the Iowa judges being recalled. As for the rest of it? Meh, I think the Dems deserved to be punished but it'll be interesting to watch the Reps do nothing different than they did under Bush.

I agree that the dems deserve to be punished but sadly too many Blue Dawgs are still there and they are the most problamatic Dems IMO

I hate Blue Dawgs more than Republicans because with Republicans you know what you are getting

but with Blue Dawgs... it is a stab in the back with a slow twist of bullshit

 

[Yoritomo]

You realize the Congress didn't create and the President didn't sign a bill design just for you right? :lol

I understand you are frustrated that the employer based model is still intact, but the voters WANTED it to stay intact. They didn't want a radical (not saying radical is bad) change.

Of course it wasn't made for me. It also doesn't empower me to do anything about my healthcare or healthcare costs. HSA's are still limited to particular plans. HCFSA are limited on a yearly basis.

But you can see how the health care bill would tick off the middle class voting block.

 

[mckmas8808]

Yep. Now my premiums are going up, and I will have to pay 10% of the cost of a hospital stay on top of the copayment. All that extra money going to support trash legislation like Obama care. Obama promised big but delivered small, and the electorate has remembered it. If the GOP puts forth a sane, qualified candidate in 2012 I think Obama could be a 1-term president.

Your shit was going to go up next year regardless. Why don't people understand this? Healthcare cost didn't start going up this year.

 

[Guardian Bob]

So, republicans took america back

Spoiler

wards

?

Oh, and not being American, can someone explain what the GOP is? I hear it all the time in news.

 

[RyanDG]

Your shit was going to go up next year regardless. Why don't people understand this? Healthcare cost didn't start going up this year.

Mine wasn't - I have a union based contract plan that was not going to change until 2012. Until the healthcare legislation was passed.

 

[Yoritomo]

You can't dissolve the entire Obama administration to a single number.

What about the fact that the economy has been growing for quite a long time now? Why is it that everyone bitches about "9.5!!11"? It's 4% above the natural rate--and that 4% are getting their unemployment benefits like everyone else (which, by the way, the Republicans wanted to curtail unemployment benefits as if the money jobless people receive isn't automatically re-injected into the economy).

The administration's problem is they're taking ownership of the problems. When you take ownership you also get the blame. If they say they fixed healthcare and celebrate that it's a big fucking deal and everyone's annual benefits enrollment period right before the election shows your insurance rates going up, people don't care that's it's probably not the administration's fault. They only see that you say you've fixed it and now the highest single cost for your family is now more expensive.

 

[CrayzeeCarl]

Your shit was going to go up next year regardless. Why don't people understand this? Healthcare cost didn't start going up this year.

Mine actually went down. Technically, the base cost went up about $10 bi-weekly but the benefits improved and they started giving premium discounts for passing different health tests, to a point where my premium next year will be lower than it is now.

 

[Wallach]

It's like you two are trying to out-reactionary each other.

Yeah, because my voting preferences are somehow equivalent to being convinced the country is going to hell and wanting to move out of the country when the Republicans reclaim a bunch of seats in the House and still don't have a Senate majority.

 

[Barrett2]

Of course it wasn't made for me. It also doesn't empower me to do anything about my healthcare or healthcare costs. HSA's are still limited to particular plans. HCFSA are limited on a yearly basis.

But you can see how the health care bill would tick off the middle class voting block.

Substantively; I really don't. Health care in America is already spotty, and increasing in cost 3x the rate of inflation. That is something which requires government intervention.

 

[mckmas8808]

Obama's big ticket items are the stimulus bill and HCR. Two topics that almost every Democrat ran away from this past month. Neither of which are viewed as creating jobs.

I'm not saying that is fair, I'm just saying that's the reality.
.

The bold is important in your post. The facts speak differently to what people believe. But like you said it is reality fair or not.

And that's the part that sucks about politics in general. When you have to make tough decisions that end up working to a degree, if it's not viewed favorably then people will vote you or your supporters out.

But you can see how the health care bill would tick off the middle class voting block.

But all the middle class voting block. I'm middle class and like the bill. It will help more middle class people once 2014 keeps in.

 

[gkryhewy]

So, republicans took america back

Spoiler

wards

?

Oh, and not being American, can someone explain what the GOP is? I hear it all the time in news.

Grand Old Party.

 

[otake]

I just don't understand Florida. The state elected a known corrupt businessman for governor and a tea party guy for senate, not to mention they chose to amend class size laws meaning there will be more students assigned per teacher.

sigh.

 

[Yoritomo]

Substantively; I really don't. Health care in America is already spotty, and increasing in cost 3x the rate of inflation. That is something which requires government intervention.

Yet the current bill does nothing to address that.

 

[Barrett2]

I look forward to seeing the Republicans first budget proposal. Can't wait to see all the fat they're gonna trim from it!

Yet the current bill does nothing to address that.

When polled, I doubt the average middle class voter could tell you a damned thing about the substance of the actual legislation.

 

[Equus Bellator Apex]

Just woke up.

This shit is real now isn't it?

 

[thekad]

Yeah, because my voting preferences are somehow equivalent to being convinced the country is going to hell and wanting to move out of the country when the Republicans reclaim a bunch of seats in the House and still don't have a Senate majority.

Wanting to switch parties because of an annoying poster on a videogame message board is fairly reactionary, imo.

Yet the current bill does nothing to address that.

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/ezra-klein/2010/03/the_five_most_promising_cost_c.htm

 

[siddx]

My Fox News zombie father-in-law is coming to visit for a week, should be hectic in this household. He just dropped this gem this morning, "If Obama can call us Republicans the enemy, then why can't we call Muslims the enemy?". Aaaargh.

If he pops off something like that while he is there, just tell him he needs to stop or find elsewhere to stay because you don't accept hateful bigoted speech in your home. And of course avoid all political talk.

 

[Celsior]

It is nice to see some of the old farts out of office though, got some of the republicans farts out in 2008, now some dems in 2010.
Also
If the rejects from the 2008 election is all the republicans can get for 2012, Obama will win.

 

[-PXG-]

I look forward to seeing the Republicans first budget proposal. Can't wait to see all the fat they're gonna trim from it!

Can't wait for them to propose for us to get out of Afghanistan and Iraq...Oh wait...

 

[mckmas8808]

Yet the current bill does nothing to address that.

Actually it does. Do you want to know some reasons how?

 

[whytemyke]

Pretty smart move by Oklahoma and Nevada (I think?) to put the "anti national health care" ballot measure on their ballots for yesterday.

With those passed, now the whole National Health Care will end up in the Supreme Court, where it will be struck down.

It's ridiculous, but smart move by GOP, knowing they couldn't overturn it in Congress and thus using the Supreme Court to do the lifting for them.

 

[Fox318]

If he pops off something like that while he is there, just tell him he needs to stop or find elsewhere to stay because you don't accept hateful bigoted speech in your home. And of course avoid all political talk.

Just tell him that you want to enjoy the time that you spend together and not digress into political talk.

Block all of the News channels in your house.

 

[ToxicAdam]

Subplot to 2010 I was interested in this election cycle:

Minorities ride GOP wave to historic victories
(AP) – 11 hours ago

WASHINGTON (AP) — The historic Republican wave also produced historic results for minority candidates, from Latina and Indian-American governors to a pair of black congressmen from the deep South.

In New Mexico, Susana Martinez was elected as the nation's first female Hispanic governor. Nikki Haley, whose parents were born in India, will be the first woman governor in South Carolina, and Brian Sandoval became Nevada's first Hispanic governor.

Insurance company owner Tim Scott will be the first black Republican congressman from South Carolina since Reconstruction, after easily winning in his conservative district. Scott, a 45-year-old state representative, earned a primary victory over the son of the one-time segregationist U.S. Sen. Strom Thurmond.

In Florida, military veteran Allen West outfought a two-term Democrat to win his House race. He is the first black Republican elected to Congress from Florida since a former slave served two terms in the 1870s.

The last black Republican in Congress was J.C. Watts of Oklahoma. He left office in 2003. There were 42 black Democrats in Congress this term.

Several Latino Republicans defeated incumbent House Democrats. In Texas, Bill Flores snatched a seat from Democratic Rep. Chet Edwards, who had served 20 years in Congress, and Francisco Canseco beat 11-year veteran Ciro Rodriguez. Jamie Herrera became the first Latino congressman from Washington state.

Opposition to President Barack Obama's agenda fueled Tuesday's GOP surge, and many also connected Obama to the rise of minority GOP candidates.

"Color is becoming less of an issue," said Richard Ivory, a black Republican political consultant and founder of hiphoprepublican.com. "There was a time when the white electorate saw race first and made judgments based on this alone. While black Republicans and Obama disagree ideologically, both are candidates whose message surpassed pigment."

Mark Sawyer, a UCLA professor and director of the university's Center for the Study of Race, Ethnicity and Politics, said Obama's election pushed the GOP to adjust to a more diverse electorate by seeking out minority candidates.

But he noted that almost all the victorious GOP minorities were elected in majority-white areas and opposed measures such as comprehensive immigration reform that are favored by many Latinos and blacks.

"This election does not show a substantive embrace of a minority agenda," Sawyer said.

Fourteen black Republicans were on House ballots nationwide, almost double the number in 2008. The largest number of black Republicans in Congress since Reconstruction has been two: Watts and Gary Franks of Connecticut, who left office in 1997.

On the Democratic side, Terri Sewell became the first black woman elected to Congress in Alabama.

Haley, who was backed by the tea party and Sarah Palin, is a 38-year-old state representative who was projected to win easily in conservative South Carolina. She faced unproven accusations of infidelity and questions about her finances and experience, and State Sen. Vincent Sheheen made the race closer than anyone expected. She is the nation's second Indian-American governor, after Bobby Jindal in Louisiana.

Marco Rubio, a Republican and Cuban-American, won a Senate seat in Florida. He will replace the retiring Mel Martinez, another conservative Cuban.

Jean Howard-Hill, a black Republican who lost a House primary in Tennessee, was cautiously optimistic about the future of minorities in her party.

"We're going to jump up and down because we have two African-Americans going to Congress?" she said. "There are still opportunities for advancement. But I think we have a good platform to do that now."

I was hoping for more minorities to win, but it's a good start.

 

[Celsior]

Can't wait for them to propose for us to get out of Afghanistan and Iraq...Oh wait...

You mean Bush's plan Obama followed for Iraq or the no plan Obama adopted for Afghanistan?

 

[Thunder Monkey]

Wow they've got the House by 64-66 seats.

That makes my prediction of a Dem House by 17 seats look idiotic.

Good game crusty old white people. Don't abuse it please.

 

[balladofwindfishes]

Pretty smart move by Oklahoma and Nevada (I think?) to put the "anti national health care" ballot measure on their ballots for yesterday.

With those passed, now the whole National Health Care will end up in the Supreme Court, where it will be struck down.

It's ridiculous, but smart move by GOP, knowing they couldn't overturn it in Congress and thus using the Supreme Court to do the lifting for them.

On what grounds would it be shot down in the Supreme Court? It's not at all unconstitutional, despite what Glenn Beck might think.

 

[captmcblack]

Your shit was going to go up next year regardless. Why don't people understand this? Healthcare cost didn't start going up this year.

This.

The cost of your healthcare probably went up every year since 2006 or 2007 - which, of course, corresponds nicely with the economy going apeshit. THAT is why your costs went up; the people running the providers weren't making as much money anymore since the economy (and then the stock market) fucked their money up, so they passed the burdens of their lower profits to you.

I know my health plan with Oxford and then CIGNA did the same thing, and to curb that for employees my old company had a program for preventative measures where if you got a checkup and participated in a "company wellness group", then you'd get lowered premiums (which were simply the old 2007 rates).

 

[Yoritomo]

Actually it does. Do you want to know some reasons how?

It has mandates for efficiency for insurance companies and some additional tax breaks. That doesn't actually offset the problems it introduces that could legitimately increase costs for those that don't qualify for subsidy. I work with actuaries daily. I've read the bill.

 

[siddx]

Wow they've got the House by 64-66 seats.

That makes my prediction of a Dem House by 17 seats look idiotic.

Good game crusty old white people. Don't abuse it please.

I like that, crusty old white people. GOP must change it's name to the COW party.

 

[Kitschkraft]

Subplot to 2010 I was interested in this election cycle:



I was hoping for more minorities to win, but it's a good start.

Last night was not good for blacks or hispanics at all. Minorities are probably going to get eaten alive when this redistricting starts.

 

[whytemyke]

On what grounds would it be shot down in the Supreme Court? It's not at all unconstitutional, despite what Glenn Beck might think.

The same way that the Supreme Court ruled in McCain-Feingold... that wasn't unconstitutional either but they found a loophole that allows that corporations are now protected under the Bill of Rights.

They'll find a way, I have no doubt.

 

[giga]

2008: A New Hope
2010: The Empire Strikes Back
2012: Return of the Jedi

It is written. Restore sanity.

 

[Kittonwy]

I agree that the dems deserve to be punished but sadly too many Blue Dawgs are still there and they are the most problamatic Dems IMO

I hate Blue Dawgs more than Republicans because with Republicans you know what you are getting

but with Blue Dawgs... it is a stab in the back with a slow twist of bullshit

If it wasn't for the blue dogs bending over and walking the plank you wouldn't have gotten HCR passed, being blue dogs is the only reason why they were holding seats in conservative district, and they got slaughtered last night because they walked the plank for the dems.

 

[empty vessel]

So why were people so against it last year when it wasn't even truly up for a vote?

They weren't against it. Democratic and Republican politicians were against it, because it doesn't serve their corporate constituents' interests. The Republican base (about 20% of the country) is also largely opposed to it, because they are misguided.

 

[linkboy]

Pretty smart move by Oklahoma and Nevada (I think?) to put the "anti national health care" ballot measure on their ballots for yesterday.

With those passed, now the whole National Health Care will end up in the Supreme Court, where it will be struck down.

It's ridiculous, but smart move by GOP, knowing they couldn't overturn it in Congress and thus using the Supreme Court to do the lifting for them.

Its Oklahoma, Nevada only had a ballot limiting eminent domain.

 

[krzy123]

VA-11 most likely could be headed for a long recount.

Currently Connelly up 600, with machines one precinct to go (dunno number of votes)

If race is <0.5% state will pay for recount if requested, if <1% its up to the person running. Fimian has stated he isn't conceding.

Oh recounts can't be requested until Nov. 22

 

[captmcblack]

Subplot to 2010 I was interested in this election cycle:



I was hoping for more minorities to win, but it's a good start.

This is great, in that the GOP can now say "look, we've got colored folk too!!!1 - see, we totally don't hate you at all. Some of our best friends are coloreds!"

This of course is the fakest of fake hustle, though - the GOP is only doing this to cut into the Democratic advantage with minorities. If they didn't need minorities in their demography to win elections, they'd never have anything to do with us since most of their voting bloc doesn't have anything to do with us either.