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Poligaf episode 2010: The Empire Strikes Back

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CharlieDigital said:
Both my cars paid off already :D

Ultimately, you're on the hook for the mortgage (and all that interest) anyways unless you're going to declare bankruptcy or walk away. Seems like the best choice for me if we hit rates in the neighborhood of 3.5% on 30 year mortgages. I'm at 4.75% now. A drop to 3.5% would net me about $260/mo. in savings. May have to bring additional cash at closing to reach 80% LTV, but probably worth it.

Don't forget the fixed fees that will be associated with the refinancing. It could take you quite awhile to break even (notwithstanding that your 3.5% guesstimate is probably unlikely). I personally would err on the side of cash.
 
ToxicAdam said:
God Bless the QE2. Another stimulus package for the upper 5 percent.

5%? Probably closer to 2-1%. But yea, when fiscal is out of the question, and we've decided that keeping regular people working is just not worth the cost, we get weak sauce shit like this.
 
CharlieDigital said:
3.5% is just a random number I'm pulling out of my butt. But who knows? It may go even lower (crosses fingers).

Seriously best of luck to you man.

You got me thinking again, but I'd have to put somewhere in the ballpark of $30K back into my home to hit 80% LTV. I'm not sure I'd ever make it back. My worst case is having to rent the place out and cover the difference on the mortgage if/when I decide to move.

Car will take a year or so to pay off. After that it's back to dumping money into cash savings. Or maybe I'll take a break from saving a live a little.
 
CharlieDigital said:
I'm gonna do my part and refinance the shit out of my mortgage once rates drop below 4% and then I'm gonna stimulate the shit out of the economy once I'm saving myself a couple hundred dollars a month. It'll be fucking amazing.

Got you one better. I'm going to hit equity hard in my payments for a bit, then refinance once we get below 4%. And then rent the bitch out, muahahahahahahahah!
 
Cyan said:
Translation: "please don't call me on this."

And :lol at the imaginary India trip numbers.


translation, I have actual work to do than to spend my time searching for references ...
 
dysonEA said:
Unemployment went up. We're deeper in debt by trillions. No time to list everything ... do some research.

"translation, I have actual work to do than to spend my time searching for references ..."

:lol :lol :lol

and references wouldn't exactly have helped out with something so self-evidently wrong. Has this impacted any of your views now that you know at least part of them are totalm bullshit? Face it, you got caught spewing outright lies and rather than learn anything you're trying to blame it on other people for being more knowledgable than you.
 
dysonEA said:
translation, I have actual work to do than to spend my time searching for references ...

So you're going to make a ludicrous statement, then when someone calls you out on it, you retreat to the 'do your own research' response. Ok, well its my claim that under Obama unemployment has dropped to 3.4%, the trip to India was paid for by the Indian government, and that health care reform has caused premiums to decrease to their lowest point in 30 years. Want evidence? Go look it up.
 
dysonEA said:
translation, I have actual work to do than to spend my time searching for references ...
Perhaps you should search for them. It will help prevent believing and retransmitting outrageous falsehoods...such as the president is going to spend $800 billion on a trip to India.
 
dysonEA said:
translation, I have actual work to do than to spend my time searching for references ...
Bummer. Luckily, I had the spare two minutes it took to do a little bit of research on your behalf!

Cyan said:
Here we go: a room in the Taj Mahal Mumbai costs 10k INR per night. All 560 rooms should cost 5,600,000 INR per day, assuming they don't get a group discount.

Holy crap! 5.6 million INR! That's nearly $130,000!

I 'm guessing the other $199.87 MM is hookers and blow.
 
I don't think there needs to be multiple people to pile on the guy. He obviously made a mistake and it's been referenced a dozen times now.
 
Byakuya769 said:
5%? Probably closer to 2-1%. But yea, when fiscal is out of the question, and we've decided that keeping regular people working is just not worth the cost, we get weak sauce shit like this.

This weak sauce is better than what the GOP wants to do. Sucky times yeah...
 
ToxicAdam said:
I don't think there needs to be multiple people to pile on the guy. He obviously made a mistake and it's been referenced a dozen times now.

I won't be happy until he

aw hell i'll never be happy.
 
ToxicAdam said:
I don't think there needs to be multiple people to pile on the guy. He obviously made a mistake and it's been referenced a dozen times now.

Well, he was wrong in his statement but I don't know if that counts as a mistake. He actually believes it to be so or he'd just say he was incorrect. If someone is going to post something regarding numbers and claim it as fact, they should at least be willing to include a source to back them up.
 
This seemed like a fitting cartoon that sums up the American Election cycle.
nbqhid.jpg
 
dysonEA said:
translation, I have actual work to do than to spend my time searching for references ...
That's fine but why in the world would you take those India trip numbers as truth so easily?

Edit: didn't see TA's post. also didn't realize peeps are already asking you this.
 
LovingSteam said:
So you're going to make a ludicrous statement, then when someone calls you out on it, you retreat to the 'do your own research' response. Ok, well its my claim that under Obama unemployment has dropped to 3.4%, the trip to India was paid for by the Indian government, and that health care reform has caused premiums to decrease to their lowest point in 30 years. Want evidence? Go look it up.


"Earlier this week, the Press Trust of India reported that the United States will "be spending a whopping $200 million per day on President Barack Obama's visit" to Mumbai."

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-20021841-503544.html

not 800 mil ... but 200 mill a day. whitehouse denies it, but wont give out actual numbers. How long is his trip there? If its 4 days .. and that amount is correct ....
 
dysonEA said:
"Earlier this week, the Press Trust of India reported that the United States will "be spending a whopping $200 million per day on President Barack Obama's visit" to Mumbai."

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-20021841-503544.html

not 800 mil ... but 200 mill a day. whitehouse denies it, but wont give out actual numbers. How long is his trip there? If its 4 days .. and that amount is correct ....

Well at least you provided a source. HAD you actually read the source, you'd see that there is no EVIDENCE that it would actually be 800mil for the trip. Especially when compared to previous trips for the President, both Obama and previous administrations.
 
Stocks stage big rally, Dow spikes 2%
By Blake Ellis, staff reporterNovember 4, 2010: 4:07 PM ET


dow-2yr.top.png



NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) -- U.S. stocks rallied Thursday, with all three major indexes finishing at two-year highs, as investors continued to cheer the Federal Reserve's announcement to pump $600 billion into the economy.

The Dow Jones industrial average (INDU) jumped 219 points, or nearly 2%. The S&P 500 (SPX) climbed 23 points, or 1.9%, and the Nasdaq (COMP) rose 37 points, or 1.5%, according to early tallies.

The Fed said Wednesday it will buy $600 billion of U.S. Treasuries by the middle of next year. The additional stimulus, referred to as quantitative easing, is the Fed's latest stab at lowering interest rates and combating deflation -- a move it hopes will help prop the sluggish economy.

The announcement was met with a tepid response Wednesday, but markets around the world surged Thursday. Commodities went along for the ride, with oil jumping 2% and gold rallying 3%. Treasuries also rallied as investors looked to get in on the action ahead of the Fed.

"QE2 is hitting the market big time," said Peter Tuz, president at Chase Investment Counsel. "The rally really took off overnight with global markets and commodities, then spread to the U.S., and now we're seeing it just take off."

While Wall Street may be happy to finally get clarity about the Fed's plans, investors still have mixed feelings about how effective it will be.

"I think investors are all over the place with their feelings," said J. Bryant Evans, a portfolio manager at Cozad Asset Management. "There's a lot of polarity about whether we even need quantitative easing at this point or whether it's a hindrance."

The end to political uncertainty about the midterm elections -- which resulted in a widely expected Republican victory -- has also given stocks a boost, he said.

Wall Street get its gridlock
"The issue of what was going to happen during the election has been resolved, and a less regulatory, more business-friendly political environment has developed," said Evans. "A lot of it should have been built in to the market already, but what was not built in was the resolution of uncertainty."

News that the Obama Administration is open to extending tax cuts to all income brackets provided yet another catalyst to the market's upward trajectory on Thursday.

"That's fuel to the fire," said Tuz. "It gives people the sense that the direction the country took with the election is going to result in positive change -- if you regard stable tax rates as positive change."


World markets: European stocks closed sharply higher. Britain's FTSE 100 rose 2%, the DAX in Germany gained 1.8% and France's CAC 40 jumped 1.9%.

Asian markets ended higher. The Shanghai Composite ticked up 1.9%, the Hang Seng in Hong Kong rose 1.6% and Japan's Nikkei gained 2.2%.

Currencies and commodities: The dollar fell against the euro, the British pound and the Japanese yen.

Oil for December delivery rallied $1.80, or 2%, to $86.49 a barrel.

Gold futures for December delivery surged $45.50, or 3.4%, to a record $1,383.10 an ounce.

Treasury prices also gained, pushing the yield on the benchmark 10-year note down to 2.48% Thursday, from 2.62% late Wednesday. Bond prices and yields move in opposite directions.

Economy: Initial jobless claims surged to 457,000 in the week ended Oct. 30, according to the government's weekly report.


Economists surveyed by Briefing.com had expected 445,000 claims to have been filed. Continuing claims for the week ended Oct. 23 fell to 4.34 million, short of the 4.38 million expected by analysts.

On Wednesday, separate reports on private sector employment and planned job cuts illustrated a cloudy outlook for the job market.

The Labor Department is scheduled to release its key monthly jobs report Friday. Economists surveyed by CNNMoney expect it to show that employers added 68,000 jobs in October after cutting 95,000 in September. But the unemployment rate is forecast to remain at 9.6%.

The ugly truth about unemployment
Investors will be closely watching this report -- the final big event of the week -- for signs of improvement.

"That's a big economic indicator, so [markets] could continue higher if it's a pretty good number or back off a bit if it doesn't show employment is growing," said Tuz.

##########################

Looks like the market likes QE2 and the GOP taking back the House. It's funny yet sad that they love the fact that less regulation and lower taxes for the top 2% are great.
 
ToxicAdam said:
I don't think there needs to be multiple people to pile on the guy. He obviously made a mistake and it's been referenced a dozen times now.
I hear you TA, but I'm not sure he's been piled on enough yet:
dysonEA said:
not 800 mil ... but 200 mill a day. whitehouse denies it, but wont give out actual numbers. How long is his trip there? If its 4 days .. and that amount is correct ....
 
dysonEA said:
"Earlier this week, the Press Trust of India reported that the United States will "be spending a whopping $200 million per day on President Barack Obama's visit" to Mumbai."

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-20021841-503544.html

not 800 mil ... but 200 mill a day. whitehouse denies it, but wont give out actual numbers. How long is his trip there? If its 4 days .. and that amount is correct ....

Even the fucking WSJ thinks you're an idiot: http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2010/11/04/fuzzy-math-dogs-obamas-asia-trip/

But the report is demonstrably incorrect. It says the White House had blocked off the entire Taj Mahal Hotel in Mumbai – it hasn’t – and that the press traveling with Mr. Obama will be staying there. We won’t. Besides, the press pays its own way at considerable cost to the media outlets, not the U.S. taxpayer.

Now a new rumor has emerged courtesy of India’s NDTV. Mr. Obama, the outlet says, “will be protected by a fleet of 34 warships, including an aircraft carrier, which will patrol the sea lanes off the Mumbai coast.” The White House called that ridiculous. But on the conservative Drudge Report website, it’s on the home page – in huge type.
 
dysonEA said:

From the article...

CBS News asked the White House about the story yesterday, and the White House said in an email that "The numbers reported in this article have no basis in reality."
As FactCheck.org notes, there is no evidence to support the $200 million figure (other than the anonymous quote), and it seems like a serious stretch in light of the fact that the entire war in Afghanistan costs less on a daily basis.
Smell test man, smell test.
 
LovingSteam said:
Well at least you provided a source. HAD you actually read the source, you'd see that there is no EVIDENCE that it would actually be 800mil for the trip. Especially when compared to previous trips for the President, both Obama and previous administrations.


"Earlier this week, the Press Trust of India reported ..." They were the source. Any expensive trip exceeding multi millions right now is just wasting the American's money. Your money, not just mine. Besides, that was just one example. His health care is also going to put us deeper in debt. The trillions he's already spent in all the government programs going on is putting us deeper in debt. Obama is just digging our debt hole deeper and yet you defend him. Makes no sense.
 
LovingSteam said:
As I said, Dyson still won't back off from the 800 mil claim. Even though there hasn't been actual proof of the claim, not to mention that it would equate a full week of cost for the war in Iraq.

The Iraq war at least had a purpose. Plus it was a war that was won. How much has Obama spent on Afghanistan?
 
This is getting fucking absurd and needs to stop. I guarantee there will be plenty of talking heads arguing with sensible people about warships and aircraft carriers tonight.

There are thousands of people like Dyson out there. It's so sad and frustrating.
 
dysonEA said:
The Iraq war at least had a purpose. Plus it was a war that was won. How much has Obama spent on Afghanistan?
Holy crap, you don't even know what you're responding to.

The point of bringing up the war is that if someone tells you that it costs more to visit a country peacefully than to wage war in a country, your bullshit detectors should activate.
 
mckmas8808 said:
Looks like the market likes QE2 and the GOP taking back the House. It's funny yet sad that they love the fact that less regulation and lower taxes for the top 2% are great.

The top 2% is the market. I've posted that damn pie chart a bazillion times.
 
dysonEA said:
"Earlier this week, the Press Trust of India reported ..." They were the source. Any expensive trip exceeding multi millions right now is just wasting the American's money. Your money, not just mine. Besides, that was just one example. His health care is also going to put us deeper in debt. The trillions he's already spent in all the government programs going on is putting us deeper in debt. Obama is just digging our debt hole deeper and yet you defend him. Makes no sense.

1. Notice that an INDIVIDUAL member of the Indian press hasn't come out with actual hard data.

2. Do you admit that the 800 million is false? That a 2 day trip in India will not be more than the cost for 2-3 days of the war in Iraq?

3. So you basically want Obama to travel internationally on what, a ferry boat? You do realize that security for THE PRESIDENT of the United States, his press is very expensive, always has been and always will be right?

4. Please quote the CBO that shows the health care reform bill would add more to the deficit than had we not done anything and left matters as is. I'd be interested to read it.

5. What programs would you recommend cutting costs from to reduce the deficit? Would you be for reducing the defense spending? Social security? Medicare? What programs?

6. I have asked you a couple times now to supply your recommendations for this administration that would help reduce the deficit, decrease unemployment and so far you have yet to do so. Would you mind offering some insight now?
 
dysonEA said:
"Earlier this week, the Press Trust of India reported ..." They were the source. Any expensive trip exceeding multi millions right now is just wasting the American's money. Your money, not just mine.

Because Global Politics isn't important at all, right?

Besides, that was just one example. His health care is also going to put us deeper in debt.

Except it won't... http://www.cbo.gov/publications/collections/health.cfm
. CBO and the staff of the Joint Committee on Taxation (JCT) estimate that enacting both pieces of legislation will produce a net reduction in federal deficits of $143 billion over the 2010-2019 period.​

The trillions he's already spent in all the government programs going on is putting us deeper in debt.

As opposed to trillions on tax cuts?

Obama is just digging our debt hole deeper and yet you defend him. Makes no sense.

Hey I'm all for reducing the debt. Two options, raise taxes or cut spending on things that actually contribute significantly to the deficit on a long-term basis. What would you like to kill? Social Security? Medicare? Defense projects? Tax cuts for the wealthy?

edit: wow, so beaten.
 
dysonEA said:
"Earlier this week, the Press Trust of India reported ..." They were the source. Any expensive trip exceeding multi millions right now is just wasting the American's money. Your money, not just mine. Besides, that was just one example. His health care is also going to put us deeper in debt. The trillions he's already spent in all the government programs going on is putting us deeper in debt. Obama is just digging our debt hole deeper and yet you defend him. Makes no sense.


Where's your source for this?
 
Cyan said:
Holy crap, you don't even know what you're responding to.

The point of bringing up the war is that if someone tells you that it costs more to visit a country peacefully than to wage war in a country, your bullshit detectors should activate.

I know what I'm responding to. But its comparing apples to oranges. Going to war when we did in Iraq, we felt we had to, to protect ourselves after what happend on 911. Going to India for a trip ... not the same thing (I know he's going there for more than just a trip, but I'm sure he could just make a phone call ... or spend less).
 
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