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PoliGAF Interim Thread of 2008 Early Voting (THE FINAL COUNTDOWN: T MINUS 2 DAYS)

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GhaleonEB said:
(He actually skips up to $200k per person or $250k per household, so there's a hole between the current level and that. Politics and all.)
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I thought he backpedaled on that? I remember talking to my dad about it, who said he was furious and that he'd never vote for Obama purely because of the tax upscaling to 250K. Then a couple weeks later he said that wasn't the case anymore, but he still wasn't very big on McCain or Obama.
 
+2 Obama here in Florida. Also, +1 No on Prop. 2.

4 1/2 hours in line, waiting.

From what I heard around me, people were ambivalent about who to choose, just going down the straight party line, until McCain chose Palin. And that scared the shit out of everyone.
 
TheKingsCrown said:
No. Not a terrible idea. I am tired of fucking paying for those who didn't plan for their retirement. The amount taken out of my checks for social security is egregious. As a depression era initiative I can understand it, but I don't understand it anymore. I should at least be able to opt out somehow.
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Just imagine the drain on social services trying to take care of the millions who would become elderly without a way to take care of themselves. If you don't like the Social Security tax, just wait until millions lose their retirement and help take the economy down with them. Fun times for all.
 
besada said:
Wah, get over it. Part of being in a society is paying to help others. It's for your own good. People with no money become a huge drag on the economy. This is the fundamental idiocy of America, this denial that there's a cost for letting people fall through the cracks.
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But some people let themselves fall through the cracks. I know it is inhuman to let some people die because all of a sudden they can't pay to live, but its not much different from walking by a beggar in the subway. You can listen to someone's story and choose to help out, or you can be forced to. And let's not even get started about the fact that my grandparents are millionaires and yet they still receive social security checks. How can you justify that?

There are only costs if you let there be costs. We can give basic services to those people who fall through the cracks and then leave it at that. We don't have to save them.

Again, I don't agree with the costs to society argument. You don't have to let there be costs. If we are printing money so they can spend it and push forward our economy, we aren't pushing forward our economy at all, we are just weakening our currency.
 
TheKingsCrown said:
This is where I viciously differ from both Democrats, Republicans and old people. I want the social security system destroyed, incrementally, over a couple generations of people. People today should have to create their own future security, and the amount they pay to seniors today and tomorrow should slowly be decreased over the next 10-30 years.
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Australia has a system called superannuation.

The government doesn't manage it; instead, they simply mandate that we have to save 10% of our earnings for our superannuation, so that we don't have to rely on government at retirement.

You're free to self manage your superannuation, or you could just do what most people do; let their workplace figure it out for them. Either way, it's like social security, but with free market enterprise, as well as freedom to self mange.

The only thing you're not free to do is spend the money until retirement.


Probably the better system would be a combination of social security and superannuation... similar to what Obama is proposing for health care; a state managed system, as well as multiple smaller privately managed funds to compete. Defaults at state managed, but you can move it around between funds as you please, but simply can't withdraw out of it before a certain age.
 
Social Security is not a retirement plan. It's insurance that we all pay so that if your actual retirement plans go into the shitter for whatever reason, you're not destitute and poor in your old age and can live with some degree of dignity.

I thought he backpedaled on that? I remember talking to my dad about it, who said he was furious and that he'd never vote for Obama purely because of the tax upscaling to 250K. Then a couple weeks later he said that wasn't the case anymore, but he still wasn't very big on McCain or Obama.
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This is indeed no longer part of the platform,and never really was firmly there to begin with. There's still some adjustment but it's not a full uncap.
 
FlightOfHeaven said:
+2 Obama here in Florida. Also, +1 No on Prop. 2.

4 1/2 hours in line, waiting.

From what I heard around me, people were ambivalent about who to choose, just going down the straight party line, until McCain chose Palin. And that scared the shit out of everyone.
Click to expand...

Did it drastically change people's minds; i.e. a lot of crossover?

What was the mood of people like in line?

Did any leave due to not wanting to wait that long?
 
Fragamemnon said:
Social Security is not a retirement plan. It's insurance that we all pay so that if your actual retirement plans go into the shitter for whatever reason, you're not destitute and poor in your old age and can live with some degree of dignity.
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Indeed, it's also there if somebody takes a crowbar to your kneecaps and you can't work, and it provides that unemployment check if you get laid off.
 
So my girlfriend's cousin had emailed me again earlier today. Linked an inane Conservative mouth-piece article about Martin Luther King Jr the Republican. Oh, and how Democrats were the racists, and Republicans were the shining beacons of interracial hope back then. I fucking lost it at that point. I had to be nice since, you know, not a good idea to piss off girlfriend's relatives but Jesus-fucking-tap-dancing-Christ.

It's the same prototypical Rethuglican propaganda bullshit that falls apart when you actually break it down with some basic historical perspective.

It wasn't Democrats who were being racist dicks. It was the DIXIECRATS for chrissakes. Primarily lead by none other than Strom-fucking-Thurman. The Dixiecrats became a minor footnote after the 1948 election, and then proceeded to fold into the Republican party in Goldwater vs LBJ, since LBJ was running pro-Civil Rights and those racist fucks couldn't stand that.

Today's ignorant racist dumb-ass hicks owe their entire fucking existence to Dixiecrats. But they're too goddamn complacent/ignorant/brain-dead to even recognize that MLK Jr was fighting against their mental midgetry and he'd take a huge dump on their heads if he were alive today.

Sorry. I just had to rant a bit...
 
Hitokage said:
Indeed, it's also there if somebody takes a crowbar to your kneecaps and you can't work. It also provides that unemployment check if you get laid off.
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Or, you know, you're a kid, and your income earning parents die.

Lazy ass kids need to plan for this shit better.
 
Crayon Shinchan said:
Probably the better system would be a combination of social security and superannuation... similar to what Obama is proposing for health care; a state managed system, as well as multiple smaller privately managed funds to compete. Defaults at state managed, but you can move it around between funds as you please, but simply can't withdraw out of it before a certain age.
Click to expand...

Australia already has that. It's called the Age Pension but it's subject to a means test, as in, if you're a millionaire you aren't getting anything from the government. Australians also have more money invested per capita then any other country.
 
that early voting stuff is ridiculous. if the wait is 4 hours and the voting stuff is only open 8 hours / day, how are you supposed to vote? fuck the people that passed that bill. they are anti - american (better word)
 
ryutaro's mama said:
Did it drastically change people's minds; i.e. a lot of crossover?

What was the mood of people like in line?

Did any leave due to not wanting to wait that long?
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It did. It scared the pants off of most people. Stories of Palin's corruption and ineptness were rife among the crowd.

Most people were extremely patient. "The line's long, but eh, it's gotta be done." The enormity of the situation was realized.

About one or two people left, but it was about 5 minutes in. Once people made it in the building proper, no one left.
 
Posted in the Palin as President thread....and quite possibly the best thing ever:

http://www.sociotown.com/games/polimon/

TheKingsCrown said:
that early voting stuff is ridiculous. if the wait is 4 hours and the voting stuff is only open 8 hours / day, how are you supposed to vote? fuck the people that passed that bill. they are anti - american (better word)
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It was a Republican bill. Go figure.
 
Just looked at this poll...wow

118dkj4.jpg
 
TheKingsCrown said:
that early voting stuff is ridiculous. if the wait is 4 hours and the voting stuff is only open 8 hours / day, how are you supposed to vote? fuck the people that passed that bill. they are anti - american (better word)
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The polling station today was open from 1-5. If you got in the line before 5, you were guaranteed to vote, no matter how long it took.

So, really, it was 1-10.
 
Crayon Shinchan said:
Australia has a system called superannuation.

The government doesn't manage it; instead, they simply mandate that we have to save 10% of our earnings for our superannuation, so that we don't have to rely on government at retirement.

You're free to self manage your superannuation, or you could just do what most people do; let their workplace figure it out for them. Either way, it's like social security, but with free market enterprise, as well as freedom to self mange.

The only thing you're not free to do is spend the money until retirement.

Probably the better system would be a combination of social security and superannuation... similar to what Obama is proposing for health care; a state managed system, as well as multiple smaller privately managed funds to compete. Defaults at state managed, but you can move it around between funds as you please, but simply can't withdraw out of it before a certain age.
Click to expand...
Also, superannuation is taxed at super low rates and you can make voluntary contributions, so a lot of older people put everything they can in there so that they don't pay as much tax. The government encourages it because the savings they make on not having to send out aged pension checks to people far outweigh any losses they might have in tax revenue. It also means that there is a great deal more investment happening overall.

However, I thought the US already had a system like this. Isn't this what 401Ks are?
 
TheKingsCrown said:
But some people let themselves fall through the cracks.

There are only costs if you let there be costs. We can give basic services to those people who fall through the cracks and then leave it at that. We don't have to save them.
Click to expand...

You are arguing from an imaginary position. On the basis of the housing crisis, we have convinced the government to spend more than 850 billion to bail things out. You think we're going to do something differently when there are millions of seniors in danger of starving? Under your "plan" all it takes is a single big crash, and then the government will paying for everything for those senior citizens.

We're not going to stand around while millions of seniors starve to death. Not in a Democracy where the largest voting bloc is seniors. Like I said, you're arguing from an imaginary position, like a Libertarian. The world would have to radically alter its nature for anyone to ever take that plan seriously. Even the Republican plan, which was laughable, only called for investment of a third of the funds, and didn't stop you fro paying in.

Social Security is here to stay. It's more likely to simply become a government pension plan, perpetually endowed, than it is to go away. The longer life spans get, the larger the senior voting block becomes, the less likely anyone is going to do anything about it.
 
So can someone smarter or more knowledgeable explain this to me, then:

Obama does not support uncapping the full payroll tax of 12.4 percent rate. Instead, he and Joe Biden are considering plans that would ask those making over $250,000 to pay in the range of 2 to 4 percent more in total (combined employer and employee).

So it would be 12.4 percent on the first 96K, then 2-4% on the next 150K? Or is it 12.4 percent on the first 250K, then 2-4 percent after that?

The thing my dad was furious about was that it was only on payroll taxes, so that somebody like Obama (who sees a lot of income from book revenues, royalties, etc) wouldn't even have to pay the taxes he imposed on everyone else.

The Blue Jihad said:
So my girlfriend's cousin had emailed me again earlier today. Linked an inane Conservative mouth-piece article about Martin Luther King Jr the Republican.
Click to expand...

I live in North Florida -- I see this billboard every night during my drive home from work:

billboard.jpg


It seems to me like a fairly cynical attempt to draw black voters away from Obama, but at the same time I wonder.....what reasonable person thinks this is actually going to work? "Oh, well MLK was a Republican....I guess I'd better vote for that old white dude!"
 
viciouskillersquirrel said:
However, I thought the US already had a system like this. Isn't this what 401Ks are?
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402K is a provision in the tax code that wasn't originally intended as the popular retirement vehicle it turned into.
 
Father_Brain said:
There are few people on the right I can think of, save Kathryn Jean Lopez, who have grasped at straws as desperately and pathetically as Warshawsky. The schadenfreude on Nov. 5 from those two will be particularly enjoyable.
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They'd do a Hugh Hewitt/Dean Barnett post-2006 and be accused of being 'home side boosters' which refer to those who continue rah-rahing for their team even when their team is down 7-84 with 2 minutes to play in the game, going 'yeah comeback baby!'

Australia's super is actually 9%, and everyone's taking their money out of equities and into cash. Well, those who haven't are stuck like this poor sod who has $5 in his account as all his cash is locked in mortgage funds.
http://www.news.com.au/business/story/0,27753,24550640-14327,00.html
 
Fragamemnon said:
Social Security is not a retirement plan. It's insurance that we all pay so that if your actual retirement plans go into the shitter for whatever reason, you're not destitute and poor in your old age and can live with some degree of dignity.

This is indeed no longer part of the platform,and never really was firmly there to begin with. There's still some adjustment but it's not a full uncap.
Click to expand...

Oh, I see. We have that in Australia too, just under different names.

Still, it seems sometimes that other liberal democracies have already solved the problems that other liberal democracies are having... and that at least on the surface, these solutions are relatively transplantable.
 
juror who's dad died and flew to california to take care of business without being in any sort of contact with the court since friday evening has now been dismissed in the corruption trial of Ted Stevens.

deliberations will start over from scratch with an alternate in as juror #9.

juror #4, the violent, outburst-ish one who everyone else asked the judge to please get rid of, is still on the jury.

and remember, a conviction takes a unanimous verdict, so outbursts/disagreements could mean a higher chance of a mistrial
 
border said:
It seems to me like a fairly cynical attempt to draw black voters away from Obama, but at the same time I wonder.....what reasonable person thinks this is actually going to work? "Oh, well MLK was a Republican....I guess I'd better vote for that old white dude!"
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It's obviously and patently not true and it doesn't work anyway. Black people detest Republicans for good reason despite many studies that cite blacks as culturally conservative in some cases and being a perfect theoretical target for Republicans. That won't ever change while you have the mainstream of republicans demonizing blacks culturally.
 
besada said:
You are arguing from an imaginary position. On the basis of the housing crisis, we have convinced the government to spend more than 850 billion to bail things out. You think we're going to do something differently when there are millions of seniors in danger of starving? Under your "plan" all it takes is a single big crash, and then the government will paying for everything for those senior citizens.

We're not going to stand around while millions of seniors starve to death. Not in a Democracy where the largest voting bloc is seniors. Like I said, you're arguing from an imaginary position, like a Libertarian. The world would have to radically alter its nature for anyone to ever take that plan seriously. Even the Republican plan, which was laughable, only called for investment of a third of the funds, and didn't stop you fro paying in.

Social Security is here to stay. It's more likely to simply become a government pension plan, perpetually endowed, than it is to go away. The longer life spans get, the larger the senior voting block becomes, the less likely anyone is going to do anything about it.
Click to expand...

Points taken. But keep in mind, all I want is a big change. If the system can change so that every dollar I put in is invested toward my own future, then I'll be happy. Even if you call it social security. I hate the fact that nothing I put in is tangible at this point or put towards what I want it to be put towards.
 
Pachael said:
Australia's super is actually 9%, and frightened old people are taking their money out of equities and into cash. Well, those who haven't are stuck like this poor sod who has $5 in his account as all his cash is locked in mortgage funds.
http://www.news.com.au/business/story/0,27753,24550640-14327,00.html
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Fixed.

If you're under 30, you need to switch your investment mix on your superannuation to a growth one right now. Buy into the falling market and ride the dip - that's my advice.
 
How early should i be at my voting center if it opens at 8 and i wanna be out by 9:30? IDC how early, I'm honestly quite excited to vote.
 
LOL I was talking to a friend of mine she told me I know PA is going to Obama, because all she saw was nothing but Obama stuff all over Philly. Granted it's the city only but Philly is going to show up this year.
 
I just finished watching McCain on Meet the Press. I wonder how many people realized how he totally contradicted himself in a span of two minutes when Brokhaw questioned about the "Socialist" accusations.

Defending his "Socialist" accusations with Obama's tax cuts, McCain said the government needs to get out of people's lives and it's just not the thing to do during economic hard times. Then a minute later when he was defending the bail-out and his mortgage plan, he said it's important for government to get involved during economic hard times.

That little bit just signifies the problem with the McCain campaign the last couple of months. Individually their arguments make sense but when you try to put it together with their overall message it just goes horribly wrong. There is no cohesion.
 
border said:
I live in North Florida -- I see this billboard every night during my drive home from work:

billboard.jpg


It seems to me like a fairly cynical attempt to draw black voters away from Obama, but at the same time I wonder.....what reasonable person thinks this is actually going to work? "Oh, well MLK was a Republican....I guess I'd better vote for that old white dude!"
Click to expand...

Is that even true? I'm pretty sure he was a socialist....
 
BrightYoungThing said:
Is that even true? I'm pretty sure he was a socialist....
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From Wikipedia:

Though his public language was guarded, so as to avoid being linked to communism by his political enemies, in private he sometimes spoke of his support for democratic socialism. In one speech, he stated that "something is wrong with capitalism" and claimed, "There must be a better distribution of wealth, and maybe America must move toward a democratic socialism."[86]
Click to expand...

:lol
 
The Chosen One said:
I just finished watching McCain on Meet the Press. I wonder how many people realized how he totally contradicted himself in a span of two minutes when Brokhaw questioned about the "Socialist" accusations.

Defending his "Socialist" accusations with Obama's tax cuts, McCain said the government needs to get out of people's lives and it's just not the thing to do during economic hard times. Then a minute later when he was defending the bail-out and his mortgage plan, he said it's important for government to get involved during economic hard times.

That little bit just signifies the problem with the McCain campaign the last couple of months. Individually their arguments make sense but when you try to put it together with their overall message it just goes horribly wrong. There is no cohesion.
Click to expand...

Was he called out on it at all??
 
BrightYoungThing said:
Is that even true? I'm pretty sure he was a socialist....
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He never declared for either party but he certainly wouldn't have been a Republican not that there weren't a lot of Democrats hostile to civil rights in that day and age. Goldwater ensures that.
 
The Chosen One said:
I just finished watching McCain on Meet the Press. I wonder how many people realized how he totally contradicted himself in a span of two minutes when Brokhaw questioned about the "Socialist" accusations.

Defending his "Socialist" accusations with Obama's tax cuts, McCain said the government needs to get out of people's lives and it's just not the thing to do during economic hard times. Then a minute later when he was defending the bail-out and his mortgage plan, he said it's important for government to get involved during economic hard times.

That little bit just signifies the problem with the McCain campaign the last couple of months. Individually their arguments make sense but when you try to put it together with their overall message it just goes horribly wrong. There is no cohesion.
Click to expand...
When you have no core message and convictions to anchor your talking points to, they're going to be all over the place, and you're going to contradict yourself a lot as McCain has been for some time.
 
Christopher said:
Was he called out on it at all??
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Nope. But probably because McCain rambled on for a good 3-4 minutes so Brokhaw got caught up in something else.

I thought Tom did good though this interview. I don't think he deserves all the hate he gets around here.
 
You guys think people still supporting McCain up till now really give a fuck what he does, if he makes any sense, and whether he contradicts himself? People that care about little things like that left the boat already. His 'base' is pretty much voting against Obama, and McCains actions are pretty irrelevant to them.
 
TheKingsCrown said:
Points taken. But keep in mind, all I want is a big change. If the system can change so that every dollar I put in is invested toward my own future, then I'll be happy. Even if you call it social security. I hate the fact that nothing I put in is tangible at this point or put towards what I want it to be put towards.
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You'll get your money. Really. Aging trends alone ensure a near permanent gray majority for the forseeable future. I suppose it's remotely popular that some American generation will have a huge baby boom, but even that wouldn't do it for long.

It seems likely the retirement age will go up, which isn't that terrible. We're living longer and staying healthy longer. The culture is already adapting to having more old people in the work place.

I've been paying in for 23 years, so it's not like I don't have anything at stake here. I'm just confident that enough people will vote their self interest that I don't worry much about Social Security.
 
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