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[7threst]

I am! I'm just too lazy to google all the numbers again.
But looking at your great posts... damn, you have enough time, as it seems.
So google and judge them.
[doesn't metter how these numbers are. They will always be "good" for you I got it]

How can you make certain kinds of claims and then ask other posters to provide the numbers to back up your claims...?

 

[Jeff-DSA]

Do you really think Vita sales will decrease because of these titles?

The list screams of "maintaining status quo." There's nothing in there to shake things up. Sony has no idea what they're doing in the handheld space, and it's getting more and more obvious. I bought three PSPs (including a Go). It never paid off, but I figured that Sony would learn from their mistakes and do things better with the Vita. Well, it's worse, and it really, really sucks.

Sales won't go down from that list, but aside from very small spikes, nothing will change.

 

[Forever]

I know!
I saw your PSASBR/Kamiya thread.

And you're still oblivious. I wonder how long it'll take you to notice.

 

[OldJadedGamer]

Name Sony's top 5 developers, which have admitted that they aren't working on a VITA game (except ND)

Let's play a different game. Name Sony's top 5 developers 8 months after the PS3 launched that were not working on PS3 games.

 

[7threst]

Do you really think Vita sales will decrease because of these titles?

No, but I don't think they will get Vita out of the red... in short, these titles do not magically make the Vita fly of the shelves....

 

[Robert at Zeboyd Games]

Traditionally handheld experiences have been completely different and this is what Vita needs more of to succeed and what 3DS is doing right now to succeed.

Really? Before the DS, portable systems were all about copying the home consoles but with weaker technology. And even on the DS, for every game that tried something new like Trauma Center & TWEWY, you had dozens of games that were in well established genres that could have easily been on a home console instead.

The 3DS has lots of ports & remakes, and lots of new installments in long-running series, just like the Vita. Both systems have very few high quality, new IPs (if anything, I'd say the Vita wins here thanks to Gravity Rush). The difference between them is that the 3DS is getting the more popular ports, remakes, and new installments of existing series. More people would like to buy yet another Mario or Kingdom Hearts game than yet another Uncharted or Lumines. More people would like to buy Ocarina of Time with prettier graphics than Persona 4 with prettier graphics and new content.

 

[Mpl90]

I am! I'm just too lazy to google all the numbers again.
But looking at your great posts... damn, you have enough time, as it seems.
So google and judge them.
[doesn't metter how these numbers are. They will always be "good" for you I got it]


Name Sony's top 5 developers, which have admitted that they aren't working on a VITA game (except ND)

So, summed up with an example.

People talks about how much the sky is blue.
You jump in.
You say the water is bluer.
Everyone asks why. You responds vaguely.
Most start arguing with good theories.
You do "Blah blah blah, I think it's right, you think it's wrong, ok" which could be translated in "You're a moron, water is bluer".

Great.

 

[PopcornMegaphone]

Really? Before the DS, portable systems were all about copying the home consoles but with weaker technology.

Customer expectations have changed.

 

[Jaded Alyx]

I see Hyuga has arrived.

 

[OldJadedGamer]

I see Hyuga has arrived.

He has and provided us with the most ironic post of the entire thread:

Why the damage control?

 

[Mpl90]

I see Hyuga has arrived.

Compelling, I'd say. I hope it doesn't duck now that people is answering to his claims.

 

[ShockingAlberto]

I see Hyuga has arrived.

I find his ideas about moneyhatting Square-Enix for Monster Hunter intriguing and wish to hear more.

 

[electroplankton]

I am! I'm just too lazy to google all the numbers again.
But looking at your great posts... damn, you have enough time, as it seems.
So google and judge them.
[doesn't metter how these numbers are. They will always be "good" for you I got it]

You're trolling.
Every figures we had from Europe pointed out a nice 3DS performance. Fastest selling Nintendo platform in Italy, better results than DS in the same span of time in France and Germany, etc. (can you read Italian? http://www.wiitalia.it/2012/02/04/n...ita-di-germania-francia-e-spagna-per-il-2011/). 3DS is not selling bad in Europe, and this can also be seen by the amount of 3DS titles in European charts, with Kingodm Hearts 3DS at number 1 for two consecutive weeks in France, for example.

You've just said a lot of factually wrong things, as Nintendo moneyhatting Capcom for Monster Hunter, Sony focused on 1st party titles (implying more than Nintendo which is just lol), etc.

 

[Forever]

I find his ideas about moneyhatting Square-Enix for Monster Hunter intriguing and wish to hear more.

Now why did you have to go and ruin the fun like that? I wanted to see him take more confused, kneejerk snipes before pointing out that he doesn't know what Monster Hunter is.

 

[Mpl90]

I find his ideas about moneyhatting Square-Enix for Monster Hunter intriguing and wish to hear more.

And finally, the Konami/Capcom/Castlevania meme can be put to rest. WE FOUND THE SUBSTITUTE!

 

[7threst]

I find his ideas about moneyhatting Square-Enix for Monster Hunter intriguing and wish to hear more.

Haha, perfect!

 

[Jaded Alyx]

Compelling, I'd say. I hope it doesn't duck now that people is answering to his claims.

Nicely done

 

[TDLink]

Dude, that's a list that will increase Vita sales. We can argue about how much, but this is a fact. And I love how you ignore what I wrote after this list.




And I can only buy one game and only on this day? I did not know this.

On a more serious note: Launching some (about how many games are we talking here?) games on the same day as their home console version makes advertisment cheaper for the publishers.

Making advertisement cheaper for publishers is a small thing when you are also cutting the sales potential of one of the products you are advertising. AC: Liberation, for example, could be a great Vita title but releasing it on the same day as AC3 on PS3 is basically sending it to die. Ubisoft does not give a shit if you buy the game from a bargain bin at gamestop 6 months down the road and those bargain bin sales aren't going to equal increased Vita sales unless they really start piling up.

With your current argument you are probably right in that if even one Vita sells this holiday due to these games you are proven correct. That really means nothing though. It is a negligible number, is the point. The Vita needs to use this holiday season to boost itself and not just sell whatever it has been selling so far. It needs a drastic increase and these games are unlikely to do it.

Really? Before the DS, portable systems were all about copying the home consoles but with weaker technology. And even on the DS, for every game that tried something new like Trauma Center & TWEWY, you had dozens of games that were in well established genres that could have easily been on a home console instead.

The 3DS has lots of ports & remakes, and lots of new installments in long-running series, just like the Vita. Both systems have very few high quality, new IPs (if anything, I'd say the Vita wins here thanks to Gravity Rush). The difference between them is that the 3DS is getting the more popular ports, remakes, and new installments of existing series. More people would like to buy yet another Mario or Kingdom Hearts game than yet another Uncharted or Lumines. More people would like to buy Ocarina of Time with prettier graphics than Persona 4 with prettier graphics and new content.

This is not what I was saying. 3DS does not have Kid Icarus Uprising coming out the same day as Kid Icarus Wii U. There isn't even a Kid Icarus Wii U. Remakes are fine on a system btw, but they can't be the core of that system's library. You can totally have games in the same established genres that could be on home consoles instead, or whatever. That isn't what I am saying. What I am saying is don't put those out on the same day as a bigger version of the same franchise on home console.

 

[Hyuga]

I see, the Nintendo gang arrived.
The back clapping already started.
Even the insults.

Time to move on the another thread.
*winks*

edit.

I find his ideas about moneyhatting Square-Enix for Monster Hunter intriguing and wish to hear more.

Whoops, my mistake, bro!

 

[Mpl90]

I see, the logic arrived.
The back clapping already started.
Even the insults.

Time to move on the another thread.
*winks*

Yeah, sure, you can go, you already entertained us enough.

 

[Father_Brain]

This is not what I was saying. 3DS does not have Kid Icarus Uprising coming out the same day as Kid Icarus Wii U. There isn't even a Kid Icarus Wii U. Remakes are fine on a system btw, but they can't be the core of that system's library. You can totally have games in the same established genres that could be on home consoles instead, or whatever. That isn't what I am saying. What I am saying is don't put those out on the same day as a bigger version of the same franchise on home console.

Said this earlier in the thread, but while the release timing is terrible, I think the more fundamental problem with CoD and AC is that they're aimed at a demographic that hasn't been present in significant numbers on dedicated handhelds since the Western PSP market collapsed, and I don't think that anything will bring them back, at least not in the numbers Sony desperately needs.

 

[Hyuga]

Yeah, sure, you can go, you already entertained "us" enough.

Like I said
Cya

 

[TDLink]

I know!
I saw your PSASBR/Kamiya thread.


Funny how it's a fact, because you say so.
Whatever, dude. I made my point.

And again your "never as bad as VITA" stuff.....
As I have already said: Sure they weren't as low as that. The 3DS had the DS hype during its launch.
Doesn't change the fact that the sales were bad at the beginning.
Again: See -> Nintendo's panic button.

Are my comments somehow hurting your feelings?
It's okay, dude. I have my opinion, you have yours.
I already said, I have enough of the "bad/below exsp. talk" for today
It's late here in europe ;P

The facts I used in that post were not "because I say so". They are facts because they are based off real numbers, numbers posted in this very thread in fact earlier on. You even admit right here that fact you are disputing "never as bad as Vita" is true so I really don't understand your point. Nintendo hitting the "panic button" as you say does show it was below what they wanted it to be, but it does not implicitly mean the sales were downright bad. In fact, the evidence we have indicates they were ok, again, just below what they wanted.

Nothing you are saying is hurting my feelings, we're just having a discussion bro this isn't some personal vendetta or anything. It's a message board...we come here to do what we're doing. If you don't have a good rebuttal or are proven wrong then feel free to leave either with or without admitting that. That's fine and good, don't try to say facts are wrong and just opinion though and then try to ungracefully exit a conversation with excuses when you realize your argument is full of holes.

I see, the Nintendo gang arrived.
The back clapping already started.
Even the insults.

Time to move on the another thread.
*winks*

edit.


Whoops, my mistake, bro!

Again, this whole "nintendo gang" (and "sony gang") type of attitude is not conducive to rational discussion. It is a strawman insult thrown out when you have nothing better to say.

 

[Metallix87]

Do you really think Vita sales will decrease because of these titles?

Because of them? No, not exactly. Vita sales will decrease as time goes on simply because the system doesn't have system sellers or decent marketing, and isn't priced competitively.

 

[Robert at Zeboyd Games]

This is not what I was saying. 3DS does not have Kid Icarus Uprising coming out the same day as Kid Icarus Wii U. There isn't even a Kid Icarus Wii U. Remakes are fine on a system btw, but they can't be the core of that system's library. You can totally have games in the same established genres that could be on home consoles instead, or whatever. That isn't what I am saying. What I am saying is don't put those out on the same day as a bigger version of the same franchise on home console.

Okay, that I agree with you completely. Releasing the same game on both the home console and the portable system at around the same time is great - it lets more people play it and if you own both systems, you can choose which you want more, portability or big screen TV. However, releasing two new games in the same series at around the same time is a terrible idea because few people are big enough fans that they'll want to buy both at the same time so what you'll probably end up having is most people buy the home console game, a few people buy both, and still fewer buy just the portable game.

 

[Amikami]

Well, that got entertaining.

 

[Jaded Alyx]

Hyuga enters thread
Spews tired garbage as fact
Gets called out
Responds with defensive Nintendo fanboy taunt
Claims to leave
Is still here
Is now wondering if to respond to this post
Doesn't know what to do
Finally leaves
Will return

 

[UncleSporky]

I posted this months ago, and it's pretty relevant here too:

People bought Mario 64 DS because it was an enhanced port of Mario 64, a beloved, solid game getting its first remake.

People bought Mario Kart DS because it was Nintendo's first real online game, the first chance to play Mario Kart online. Double Dash was 2 years prior, MK Wii was 3 years later. It had the kart market to itself.

There was no Nintendogs alternative on consoles, certainly nothing that provided that level of experience portably.

Same for Animal Crossing - it was a new version of the game with a lot more content, and having it portable made it easy to check in once a day for a short while. Its predecessor had also been released 3 years prior.

Pokemon hasn't had a full console RPG yet. People have no alternative fix, you buy the portable version or you get crappy turn-based arena fights.

Or look at 3DS - Mario 3D Land isn't available on any other platform, there's nothing like it. Mario Kart 7 is again a big new update, different from its predecessor, which incidentally was released 3 years prior. Kid Icarus is a long-awaited revival of a franchise not touched in 25 years, and it's very unique.

Then compare to Uncharted Golden Abyss, released 3 months after Uncharted 3, and its new features that it brings to the series are touch mechanics that were tired a year into the DS's existence. And there's little else that's more original than that on Vita.

Every high-selling Nintendo portable game is either unique to the portable or clearly separated by years from the last console iteration, with lots of new features to set it apart. Each game releases exactly when the public starts to feel the urge for a new one. They always have a unique reason to exist.

In general, nobody cares whether it's a home console-like experience or not. What matters is if the game is unique and/or a proper new entry in the series after it's had a chance to rest for a few years. There has to be breathing room to get the public excited.

 

[AzaK]

I think you'll be waiting a while if you're expecting western devs to support a handheld well, they're too busy with iOS and facebook games at the moment.

Yeah I'm not going to wait long. If more games like Heroes of Ruin don't come along soonish, I'll sell it all I think.

 

[Mpl90]

I posted this months ago, and it's pretty relevant here too:

People bought Mario 64 DS because it was an enhanced port of Mario 64, a beloved, solid game getting its first remake.

People bought Mario Kart DS because it was Nintendo's first real online game, the first chance to play Mario Kart online. Double Dash was 2 years prior, MK Wii was 3 years later. It had the kart market to itself.

There was no Nintendogs alternative on consoles, certainly nothing that provided that level of experience portably.

Same for Animal Crossing - it was a new version of the game with a lot more content, and having it portable made it easy to check in once a day for a short while. Its predecessor had also been released 3 years prior.

Pokemon hasn't had a full console RPG yet. People have no alternative fix, you buy the portable version or you get crappy turn-based arena fights.

Or look at 3DS - Mario 3D Land isn't available on any other platform, there's nothing like it. Mario Kart 7 is again a big new update, different from its predecessor, which incidentally was released 3 years prior. Kid Icarus is a long-awaited revival of a franchise not touched in 25 years, and it's very unique.

Then compare to Uncharted Golden Abyss, released 3 months after Uncharted 3, and its new features that it brings to the series are touch mechanics that were tired a year into the DS's existence.

Every high-selling Nintendo portable game is either unique to the portable or clearly separated by years from the last console iteration, with lots of new features to set it apart. Each game releases exactly when the public starts to feel the urge for a new one. They always have a unique reason to exist.

In general, nobody cares whether it's a home console-like experience or not. What matters is if the game is unique and/or a proper new entry in the series after it's had a chance to rest for a few years. There has to be breathing room to get the public excited.

Yes, that's the major difference between 3DS and Vita right now. And things like AC3: Liberation being released the same day of Assassin's Creed 3 on HD consoles are baffling for Vita's health.

 

[Forever]

 

[OldJadedGamer]

People bought Mario 64 DS because it was an enhanced port of Mario 64, a beloved, solid game getting its first remake.

I only bought Mario 64 at the DS launch because there was nothing else to buy and I wanted something to play.

 

[Mpl90]

...Err, ok. XD

 

[Robert at Zeboyd Games]

In general, nobody cares whether it's a home console-like experience or not. What matters is if the game is unique and/or a proper new entry in the series after it's had a chance to rest for a few years. There has to be breathing room to get the public excited.

Exactly. People LOVE home console experiences on portable systems (see pretty much every successful 3DS game to date). But they want them to be proper games that aren't dumbed down. Getting a new Uncharted that's worse than the original right after the PS3 got Uncharted 3 is not the way to sell your system.

And there's little else that's more original than that on Vita.

Eh, Gravity Rush is quite possibly the most original non-indie game to be released this year on any system. But other than that, yeah.

 

[UncleSporky]

I only bought Mario 64 at the DS launch because there was nothing else to buy and I wanted something to play.

Definitely true, though I thought it was a pretty evergreen game too. It was basically the DS's Wii Sports, with its myriad of touch-based minigames that now cost the public a dollar each on iOS.

[IM G]http://i.minus.com/i8KY5mYqkIewv.png[/IMG]

On the internet, nobody knows you're a dog!

 

[ohlawd]

I see, the Nintendo gang arrived.
The back clapping already started.
Even the insults.

Time to move on the another thread.
*winks*

Why are people so quick to blame the fanbase when things aren't going their way? >_>

 

[Jeff-DSA]

Eh, Gravity Rush is quite possibly the most original non-indie game to be released this year on any system. But other than that, yeah.

Gravity Rush has ONE thing that's original. I love, love, LOVE the gravity shift mechanic, but they had to go take a dump on its greatness by shoving it into the most cookie cutter open world design ever. Gravity Rush falls short of great because it's the same old lame side missions, race events, and timed battle sequences as every other open world action game.

Crackdown came out years ago. Gravity Rush should have given us much more than that plus the gravity shift mechanic.

 

[Mpl90]

Why are people so quick to blame the fanbase when things aren't going their way? >_>

Because it's the easy way to "win arguements", with some fake cleverness and intelligence in it. It's basically the Homer Simpson's joke about the mosquito in the ice cube for forums.

 

[UncleSporky]

Eh, Gravity Rush is quite possibly the most original non-indie game to be released this year on any system. But other than that, yeah.

Of course, I don't want to totally disparage the platform, it's got its cool titles. Just not a ton of them, or at least not enough for enough people.

Also man there are a lot of people migrating here from PA forums, huh.

 

[Robert at Zeboyd Games]

Gravity Rush has ONE thing that's original. I love, love, LOVE the gravity shift mechanic, but they had to go take a dump on its greatness by shoving it into the most cookie cutter open world design ever. Gravity Rush falls short of great because it's the same old lame side missions, race events, and timed battle sequences as every other open world action game.

Crackdown came out years ago. Gravity Rush should have given us much more than that plus the gravity shift mechanic.

I agree that the overall sandbox setup isn't particularly original, but aside from that Gravity Rush did a lot of original things.

1 - The Gravity Shift mechanism
2 - The Art Style (I can't think of a single game that looks anything like Gravity Rush)
3 - The music (again, very unusual soundtrack)
4 - The combination of traditional controls with non-traditional controls (much better executed than Uncharted: GA).
5 - The level design (Gravity Rush's city is very different than the typical generic city you see in most sandbox games).

I'm generally not a big fan of this kind of game - I've played Crackdown, Infamous 2, and Hulk Ultimate Destruction to name a few and none of those kept my attention past the first couple hours - but I really like Gravity Rush.

 

[7threst]

Exactly. People LOVE home console experiences on portable systems (see pretty much every successful 3DS game to date). But they want them to be proper games that aren't dumbed down. Getting a new Uncharted that's worse than the original right after the PS3 got Uncharted 3 is not the way to sell your system.

Let me just make sure what you are saying... that the succesfull games on 3DS might as well be released on consoles but are in fact a success on 3DS because they aren't offered on consoles?

I mean, somehow I have the feeling you are mixing two arguments up as one:
- The handheldgames that are considered little brothers from their console counterparts (meaning, dumbed down but still mostly the same like their console counterparts)
- Unique experiences only to be found (and maybe only possible) on handhelds.

 

[TDLink]

Gravity rush is a great example of the kind of games the vita needs more of. Right now it is one of the only truly original things for the system and on its own just isn't enough.

 

[MYE]

Little big planet isn't a port
The past portable consoles couldn't handle a portable assassin's creed or call of duty.

Thats BS. They were shit, plain and simple.
You can make a compelling shooter and action adventure game on a portable if you put effort into it.

And I hope you don't think quirky jrgs are going to sell the system?

Console ports dont seem to be doing much to help Vita right now and yes, they could help sales in Japan.
That and variety is always a good thing.

And why do you say cool to ffx? Shouldn't that be classified as a console port?

Isnt it a remake?

 

[Father_Brain]

Isnt it a remake?

Only according to a very dubiously-sourced rumor.

 

[PopcornMegaphone]

Gravity rush is a great example of the kind of games the vita needs more of. Right now it is one of the only truly original things for the system and on its own just isn't enough.

From a sales perspective, is this true? Is Gravity Rush moving a lot of units? I'm asking because I don't know.

Personally, I think handhelds needs full gaming experiences designed with a handheld in mind for all ages. Core games like Gravity Rush (or resident evil on 3DS) tend to underwhelm from a sales perspective. I'm not saying there isn't a market for those kinds of experiences, but it is pretty limited.

 

[7threst]

And I hope you don't think quirky jrgs are going to sell the system?

Actually, that would be one of my main reason to buy a Vita. The PSP treated me well in that department and if games like Ys don't find their way to 3DS I simply have to get a Vita for that awesome Falcom-fix

 

[alfredofroylan]

From a sales perspective, is this true? Is Gravity Rush moving a lot of units? I'm asking because I don't know.

Worldwide sales are around 200k, half of those sales come from Japan. Of course that doesn't include digital sales, but Sony only gave numbers for the first week of sales in US. (5k)

 

[commish]

Exactly. People LOVE home console experiences on portable systems (see pretty much every successful 3DS game to date).

Well, maybe in the past, but nowadays, I don't think so, at all. I think people want experiences they can't have on their home console. So few people actually play their portable system "on the go" that, if they want that console experience, well, they can just play their console.

 

[TDLink]

From a sales perspective, is this true? Is Gravity Rush moving a lot of units? I'm asking because I don't know.

Personally, I think handhelds needs full gaming experiences designed with a handheld in mind for all ages. Core games like Gravity Rush (or resident evil on 3DS) tend to underwhelm from a sales perspective. I'm not saying there isn't a market for those kinds of experiences, but it is pretty limited.

I wasn't suggesting that Gravity Rush is moving Vitas...it obviously isn't. I am just saying it's a good step in the right direction. More unique experiences like that will increase interest in the platform as a whole, which will result in increased sales. Gravity Rush's numbers are alright though (as alfredofroylan just posted) considering Vita's overall sales.

 

[UncleSporky]

Well, maybe in the past, but nowadays, I don't think so, at all. I think people want experiences they can't have on their home console. So few people actually play their portable system "on the go" that, if they want that console experience, well, they can just play their console.

Well, you can't play Mario 3D Land on consoles, even though you can play other Mario games. You can't play Mario Kart with customizable karts and sea/air play on consoles. You can't play OoT with improved textures, models and frame rate on consoles. Those are some of the best selling games on the platform.

Most importantly for 3DS, most people can't play their games in 3D on consoles yet. Do you think that's why it's been able to hang on?