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[Metallix87]

I don't know how much the launch software of the 3DS sold but buying a Nintendo handheld is completely different from buying a Sony one.

People know there will be a Mario game, there'll be Mario Kart and Zelda, and that Nintendo uses their best people to produce handheld software. Sony usually makes their b-studios develop games for handhelds and you're not exactly sure what you're going to get.

So we're back to there being problems with the launch, then, since they couldn't inspire confidence in consumers that they would continue supporting the platform with quality titles that would justify the purchase. Also, this again suggests that Sony needs stronger IPs.

 

[DOA]

http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2012/...ations-for-vita-after-weak-sales-performance/

While Nintendo has been having difficulty in the home console arena lately, competitor Sony is having similar troubles trying to make a dent in the portable console market following the recent launch of the PlayStation Vita.

In a newly released earnings report [PDF] for the quarter ending in June, Sony revealed that the PSP and Vita combined for just 1.4 million sales worldwide. That's less than the 1.8 million units the aging PSP sold by itself a year ago at this time, and less than the 1.86 million 3DS systems Nintendo sold in the same quarter this year.

Sony didn't split out precisely how many sales each portable console had, but even with the PlayStation Portable zeroed out, this isn't an inspiring sales performance for the newer system. A lack of compelling software might be to blame: While the Vita launched with one of the largest game lineups ever, the stream of software has slowed down significantly since then, with only 11 new games released in North America from April to June. The release schedule will pick up a bit heading into the holidays, but it's hard to see any of the home console ports and classic re-releases that dominate the list acting as the major killer app that really drives significant system sales.

The poor portable performance is dragging down Sony's entire gaming unit, which lost 3.5 billion yen (approx. $45 million) for the quarter, compared to a 4.1 billion yen ($52.4 million) profit a year ago. Slow portable sales for the quarter also led Sony to lower its full-year expectations for the full gaming unit and for Vita sales, from 16 million in May to 12 million now.


As a Vita owner that LOVES the system, I'm praying this is their big wakeup call that they really need to do something. I mean, 1.4 million sales worldwide and that INCLUDES PSP sales?!! Fuck Sony, ya think it's time you started throwing some real weight behind your handheld?!!

this is the only part which bugs me. ppl still think that the Wii should sell well, although the sales should actually get lower and lower, because of the wait to the Wii-U.
the life span of the Wii is like every nintendo console life span: 5/6 years. just because Sony and MS decided that the consoles should have a 10 year life cycle, it doesn't mean that it should.

the 10 year life cycle is just because the PS2 had strong sales (comparing to the PS3) and that Sony didn't want to look so bad, so they've decided on "announcing" that the PS2 will have a 10 year support.

last but not least, MS and Sony have managed to revitalize their consoles sales because of two things:
1. complete overall of their consoles - redesigning the consoles to fix several issues (RRoD, YLoD)
2. adding motion sensor components - Move and Kinect

if they hadn't done that, their consoles' sales figures would have probably been a lot worse

 

[legacyzero]

Damn this sucks.. I really love my Vita

 

[Blue Submarine No. 6]

If the Vita does die (it won't anytime soon) it's good to know it will eventually be a perfect homebrew device. The PSP can run Super Mario 64 fullspeed (without sound), so I figure the Vita would be able to emulate every system up to the N64, and possibly more. Can't wait!

You're going to have to... Sony have done their homework this time around... the PS3 was very hard to open up - it took more than three years and was ultimately the result of irrationally poor security choices (a fixed private key? really?) and some human engineering (obtaining the Sony "maintenance" dongle)... The Vita doesn't suffer from any such security weaknesses - it won't be hacked in the foreseeable future. Hell, they haven't cracked the DSi yet and you think they're going to crack the Vita? Not. Gonna. Happen.

I just can't buy into the "Vita is doomed" camp. Sony are NOT losing money on Vita. All they have to do is rest at anchor for a bit - as PSX emulation, improved PSP compatibility and more exclusive games become available, Vita will groundswell (presuming there's any market for dedicated gaming handhelds left at all)... Hell, the Game Gear was a pretty successful little system over its 7 year life span, and it only sold something like 11 million units in its lifetime...

 

[Horse Armour]

You're going to have to... Sony have done their homework this time around... the PS3 was very hard to open up - it took more than three years and was ultimately the result of irrationally poor security choices (a fixed private key? really?) and some human engineering (obtaining the Sony "maintenance" dongle)... The Vita doesn't suffer from any such security weaknesses - it won't be hacked in the foreseeable future. Hell, they haven't cracked the DSi yet and you think they're going to crack the Vita? Not. Gonna. Happen.

I just can't buy into the "Vita is doomed" camp. Sony are NOT losing money on Vita. All they have to do is rest at anchor for a bit - as PSX emulation, improved PSP compatibility and more exclusive games become available, Vita will groundswell (presuming there's any market for dedicated gaming handhelds left at all)... Hell, the Game Gear was a pretty successful little system over its 7 year life span, and it only sold something like 11 million units in its lifetime...

Why would anyone make exclusive Vita games when it's clear Sony have no interest in supporting the machine.

 

[Spiegel]

So we're back to there being problems with the launch, then, since they couldn't inspire confidence in consumers that they would continue supporting the platform with quality titles that would justify the purchase. Also, this again suggests that Sony needs stronger IPs.

Only 16 more posts to go and you'll reach 100 in this thread alone.

You can do it.

 

[Metallix87]

I just can't buy into the "Vita is doomed" camp. Sony are NOT losing money on Vita. All they have to do is rest at anchor for a bit - as PSX emulation, improved PSP compatibility and more exclusive games become available, Vita will groundswell (presuming there's any market for dedicated gaming handhelds left at all)... Hell, the Game Gear was a pretty successful little system over its 7 year life span, and it only sold something like 11 million units in its lifetime...

Actually, Sony are losing money on each system sold (hence why memory cards are so overpriced). Also, thus far, more exclusives haven't been announced and, since sales of the hardware and software are so low, it's unlikely more will be announced, especially from third parties.

 

[Clear]

What's needed to "save" the Vita is a bit of positivity on the part of the enthusiast press, who to me seem to have formed a queue to stamp and piss all over the platform's prospects since the day it was announced.

How can you improve mindshare when people are so down on it?

 

[Metallix87]

What's needed to "save" the Vita is a bit of positivity on the part of the enthusiast press, who to me seem to have formed a queue to stamp and piss all over the platform's prospects since the day it was announced.

How can you improve mindshare when people are so down on it?

What are you talking about? Since the announcement of the "NGP", the press has been lauding it as amazing tech with a robust lineup of games and the potential to trounce the weaker 3DS. Even back at E3, the press was hyping the hell out of it and the announced price point.

It wasn't until Monster Hunter Tri G and Monster Hunter 4 were announced that the press started changing their tune, and then the Japanese launch really solidified the idea that this wasn't going to end well for Sony.

 

[Ushojax]

How can you improve mindshare when people are so down on it?

With games? The enthusiast press has nothing to do with it, the whole problem is that only enthusiasts care in the first place.

 

[7threst]

What's needed to "save" the Vita is a bit of positivity on the part of the enthusiast press, who to me seem to have formed a queue to stamp and piss all over the platform's prospects since the day it was announced.

How can you improve mindshare when people are so down on it?

What? No... I recall the press being all over the Vita and its tech... also, a lot of that positivity is something that Sony themselve can control. However, they are not doing anything. Sony is to blame here, not the press.

 

[LuchaShaq]

What's needed to "save" the Vita is a bit of positivity on the part of the enthusiast press, who to me seem to have formed a queue to stamp and piss all over the platform's prospects since the day it was announced.

How can you improve mindshare when people are so down on it?

Oh man you're right!

IGN made them pull this nonsense with the memory situation.
Gamespot forced Sony to add worthless gimmicks like back touch and gyro.
Giantbomb stabbed all of Sony's marketing people so they couldn't do their jobs.
Destructoid made many of the launch games be a disaster frame rate wise.
Neogaf made them unable to have av out.
Gamefaqs made them not show shit of their fall lineup at E3.
Penny Arcade forced them to charge 40-50$ a game.



Are you practicing ridiculous excuses for the next Sony board meeting or something?

 

[Spiegel]

I know which games will be at GamesCom, and while there are a few heavy hitters, I'm just saying you shouldn't expect the world.

Any of the unannounced games from this survey?

One wink for GT, two for GTA, three for a new Nihilistic/High Impact Games take on another PS franchise

 

[jrDev]

Compared to the 3DS' craptacular lineup it was pretty damn impressive. Certainly sold me on the system.

The mainstream/enthusiasts didn't think the lineup was worth it actually it seems.

 

[goonergaz]

If the launch lineup was so good, why didn't it sell better at launch? Why couldn't it even match 3DS launch sales?

Because 3DS launched with no competition whatsoever.

Conversely PSVita launched against a cheaper 3DS hitting it's stride.

Not hard to understand really...pretty much X360 vs PS3 again.

 

[goonergaz]

The mainstream/enthusiasts didn't think the lineup was worth it actually it seems.

The general concensus at the time was that Vita had the best launch line up pretty much 'ever'.

As stated, Sony would have been better off holding some titles back and launching regular titles which would have given a better overall impression.

 

[goonergaz]

Actually, Sony are losing money on each system sold (hence why memory cards are so overpriced).

Any proof on that? There was an article that tore down the PSV and hand Sony making money per unit - but even then your own arguments have stated the mem card is a compulsory purchase so by default if one buys a PSV they HAVE to buy a mem card so therefore PSV+mem card = Sony profit for each PSV sold

article:
http://www.destructoid.com/ps-vita-3g-teardown-puts-sony-s-cost-at-159-220036.phtml

 

[lowrider007]

There is just tooooo much going against the PS Vita for it to succeed, I honestly think the PS Vita has been superseded technically already, I've been a watching few tegra 3 games being played on the Nexus 7 and they look a lot more graphically impressive than games on the PS Vita, when the PSP came out no other hand held could match it for years, imo Sony didn't do enough to make the PS Vita a technical power house which it needed to be to get the hardcore on board, that used to be Sony's stamp but thus far technically speaking it's been lacklustre and unimpressive imo with a majority of games having frame rate issues and running sub native resolutions, next year most smart phones with piss all over the vita technically, it's out of date before it's even had a chance to find it's footing, mobile tech is moving too fast in today's market.

 

[Metallix87]

Because 3DS launched with no competition whatsoever.

Conversely PSVita launched against a cheaper 3DS hitting it's stride.

Not hard to understand really...pretty much X360 vs PS3 again.

These are excuses, though. Yeah, excuses are nice, but what we have to ask ourselves then is "Well, what's Sony going to do about it?"

 

[Metallix87]

Any proof on that?

It just seems to make sense, especially since Yoshida had previously stated it would take roughly three years for Vita hardware to be profitable.

If I'm wrong, though, then it means that Sony is gouging costumers on memory cards in a big way, and basically sabotaging the Vita for no real reason but extreme greed.

 

[jaxpunk]

If I'm wrong, though, then it means that Sony is gouging costumers on memory cards in a big way, and basically sabotaging the Vita for no real reason but extreme greed.

SONY GOUGING ON PROPRIETARY MEMORY STICK!!!!11

MY WORLD IS TURNED UPSIDE DOWN!!!

Business are in it for the greater good right? I mean Apple sells all their products for a premium because they cost so much to make....oh wait

 

[Ramune]

I just imagine Sony's just in a corner assuming the fetal position about anything regarding the Vita right now. They don't have the money to do a Nintendo style price drop and even then, there's no games to prop it up if said price drop were to happen. Before we even knew about the then named "NGP", I questioned why Sony would make another handheld. I figure it's pretty much assumed because it's expected of them at this point (even if they aren't ready) and that's what Nintendo would do.

It's pretty pathetic as before it launched, me and a few of my friends were actually quite hyped for it. Then the details started to roll out and made the system a bit less...impressive. Then the hype just...faded. I occasionally get asked at work if "I'm getting the new PSP", but all I can say is "Not at the moment". Which is sad, because I really LOVE my PSP. It's by far my most played system this generation. And the Vita IS some amazing piece of kit. I have more than 3 games that I would like to get for the system as well. I should be owning this thing by now. There's already 2 guys I know at work that have Vitas, but I'd like to ask them how they're feeling about it now. Speaking strictly of the American side, I don't think Sony has it in them to turn the Vita around, while the PS3 is their main focus and a soon to be debuted PS4 are around the corner. I just don't see it. Not in the SCE of today. And from the sounds of it, SCEA STILL hasn't learned ANYTHING from their time with the PSP! Marketing towards the same demographic initially (which I happen to be a part of apparently)...I just see people talking about the latest iPhone really.

I will say...their Vita brand earphones are awesome!

 

[Shai-Tan]

There is just tooooo much going against the PS Vita for it to succeed, I honestly think the PS Vita has been superseded technically already, I've been a watching few tegra 3 games being played on the Nexus 7 and they look a lot more graphically impressive than games on the PS Vita,

The tegra 3 is much less powerful than the SGX543MP4+ in the Vita. Some games may look jaggy because they run in only 960x544 or less but games like Uncharted have a lot more going on in them than an Unreal based tegra games (which is one of the reasons some Vita games are running at sub native resolutions)

 

[Metallix87]

SONY GOUGING ON PROPRIETARY MEMORY STICK!!!!11

MY WORLD IS TURNED UPSIDE DOWN!!!

Business are in it for the greater good right? I mean Apple sells all their products for a premium because they cost so much to make....oh wait

I'm not sure what point you're trying to make. My point was that, if I'm wrong, then Sony screwed the entire Vita scenario themselves by getting too greedy.

 

[goonergaz]

It just seems to make sense, especially since Yoshida had previously stated it would take roughly three years for Vita hardware to be profitable.

If I'm wrong, though, then it means that Sony is gouging costumers on memory cards in a big way, and basically sabotaging the Vita for no real reason but extreme greed.

Do you think R&D is free? Is Sony making or losing money?

 

[Metallix87]

Do you think R&D is free? Is Sony making or losing money?

I don't think R&D is free, but what does that have to do with anything?

Sony posted losses, including losses in their game division. They are losing money.

 

[Sid]

I know which games will be at GamesCom, and while there are a few heavy hitters, I'm just saying you shouldn't expect the world.

Really?are all these heavy hitters for vita unannounced?

 

[lowrider007]

The tegra 3 is much less powerful than the SGX543MP4+ in the Vita. Some games may look jaggy because they run in only 960x544 or less but games like Uncharted have a lot more going on in them than an Unreal based tegra games (which is one of the reasons some Vita games are running at sub native resolutions)

Well technically that may be the case but I still don't understand why many Vita games run so poorly and I just don't buy that it's down to programming.

This looks much more impressive than anything I've seen on the Vita (skip to 2:22) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qcpexaM0JyI

The only games that seem to run well on the Vita are 2d games or very basic 3d games like VT4, anything more substantial and it struggles, I guess I just expected a lot more power out of the system.

 

[Fafalada]

If I'm wrong, though, then it means that Sony is gouging costumers on memory cards in a big way

Tablet and phone makers charge 100$+ for 16GB. Sony is pricing well below market average here.

 

[goonergaz]

I'm not sure what point you're trying to make. My point was that, if I'm wrong, then Sony screwed the entire Vita scenario themselves by getting too greedy.

It's not greed.

Nintendo always make profit day one and no-one bats and eye lid, any business is out to make money but Sony aren't the one ripping customers - you should look at the companies making money.

I totally agree WRT the memcard tho - if the unit had 2/4GB installed it wouldn't cost much and would mean they wouldn't come across so bad.

 

[Metallix87]

I'm speaking specifically about the memory cards. I don't think the Vita itself is overpriced.

 

[LuchaShaq]

The general concensus at the time was that Vita had the best launch line up pretty much 'ever'.
n.

Outside of mean spirited sarcastic comment I never heard anyone say anything nearly that positive about the launch games.

It was more hey if you want a B grade overpriced uncharted game, a gimped frame rate wipeout, or a bunch a over priced gameloft/ubi ios ports get a vita....but stardust vita is great! Not to mention price gouged memory nonsense you might as well wait for an r4 style solution to use non overpriced memory.

 

[kodt]

There is just tooooo much going against the PS Vita for it to succeed, I honestly think the PS Vita has been superseded technically already, I've been a watching few tegra 3 games being played on the Nexus 7 and they look a lot more graphically impressive than games on the PS Vita, when the PSP came out no other hand held could match it for years, imo Sony didn't do enough to make the PS Vita a technical power house which it needed to be to get the hardcore on board, that used to be Sony's stamp but thus far technically speaking it's been lacklustre and unimpressive imo with a majority of games having frame rate issues and running sub native resolutions, next year most smart phones with piss all over the vita technically, it's out of date before it's even had a chance to find it's footing, mobile tech is moving too fast in today's market.

Vita is more powerful than the iPad 3, which is more powerful than Tegra 3 based devices.

Also it has a lower resolution, which means more power to be used for other improvements.

It just needs dev support.

 

[goonergaz]

I don't think R&D is free, but what does that have to do with anything?

What? Do you even know what point you're trying to make?

If you are an early adopter of any product you are paying the R&D costs. Once the price drops to 'mass market' levels then it is usually at that point it is considered to be making a profit.

 

[herod]

Because 3DS launched with no competition whatsoever.

Conversely PSVita launched against a cheaper 3DS hitting it's stride.

Not hard to understand really...pretty much X360 vs PS3 again.

Nonsense. The last console that launched with "no competition whatsoever" was (arguably) the PSP. DS was struggling for any kind of relevance, smartphones didn't exist, PSP was a brand new concept, iPods were still touting tiny screens and high price tags.

 

[Metallix87]

What? Do you even know what point you're trying to make?

If you are an early adopter of any product you are paying the R&D costs. Once the price drops to 'mass market' levels then it is usually at that point it is considered to be making a profit.

I don't think that's what people mean when they say specific hardware is profitable or not. Usually, it means that they're making money on each device sold, despite manufacturing costs. 3DS was profitable last year, before the price drop, because it was being sold at a high price than it cost to manufacture.

R&D costs aren't usually considered when referring to something as profitable or not.

 

[goonergaz]

I'm speaking specifically about the memory cards. I don't think the Vita itself is overpriced.

And I agree - but when haven't proprietry mem cards been overpriced? They are about recouping R&D costs.

 

[Metallix87]

And I agree - but when haven't proprietry mem cards been overpriced? They are about recouping R&D costs.

Why do you keep bringing up R&D costs? It's not about covering R&D costs, it's about making money after they lose money on each Vita system sold.

 

[goonergaz]

I don't think that's what people mean when they say specific hardware is profitable or not. Usually, it means that they're making money on each device sold, despite manufacturing costs. 3DS was profitable last year, before the price drop, because it was being sold at a high price than it cost to manufacture.

R&D costs aren't usually considered when referring to something as profitable or not.

it depends on the context - but did you even look at the link I provided...that implies Sony are making a profit on each unit day one but obviously Sony spent millions developing so as a whole it will take years to become a profitable venture

 

[Sid]

Well technically that may be the case but I still don't understand why many Vita games run so poorly and I just don't buy that it's down to programming.

This looks much more impressive than anything I've seen on the Vita (skip to 2:22) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qcpexaM0JyI

The only games that seem to run well on the Vita are 2d games or very basic 3d games like VT4, anything more substantial and it struggles, I guess I just expected a lot more power out of the system.

I think that's more down to the budgets allocated to such games

 

[herod]

The general concensus at the time was that Vita had the best launch line up pretty much 'ever'.

This again, in direct response to a thread of discussion about how it is just a stale collection of sequels. A vocal minority is not a consensus.

 

[goonergaz]

Why do you keep bringing up R&D costs? It's not about covering R&D costs, it's about making money after they lose money on each Vita system sold.

Again, please provide evidence as I have to the contrary

 

[Metallix87]

it depends on the context - but did you even look at the link I provided...that implies Sony are making a profit on each unit day one but obviously Sony spent millions developing so as a whole it will take years to become a profitable venture

Your link is with regards to cost of materials. That is irrelevant, since it fails to take into account a lot of other costs associated with manufacturing and shipping the devices.

 

[jrDev]

The general concensus at the time was that Vita had the best launch line up pretty much 'ever'.

As stated, Sony would have been better off holding some titles back and launching regular titles which would have given a better overall impression.

By whom?

 

[LuchaShaq]

And I agree - but when haven't proprietry mem cards been overpriced? They are about recouping R&D costs.

This is 2012, that shit doesn't fly anymore when even the crappiest devices have 4-16 gigs of onboard storage.

It's dishonest at best, and it causes major issues when it comes to deleting/backing up/moving saves not being standard between games on the vita. (just check summer 2012 vita thread for multiple people who got fucked).

If the vita launched at 300$ with 8-16 onboard I would have bought one day 1 and likely bought 2-3 games I shouldn't have just because it's a new system.

Instead I got a used bundle off craigslist 2 days ago with a 16 gig card and a couple of crappy launch games I don't want for 160$.

 

[7threst]

This again, in direct response to a thread of discussion about how it is just a stale collection of sequels. A vocal minority is not a consensus.

I don't know, looking back it may not seem so impressive, but for a launch line-up some of those titles are pretty strong. However, the fact this launch line-up didn't help the Vita may say something.

 

[Mr Swine]

The tegra 3 is much less powerful than the SGX543MP4+ in the Vita. Some games may look jaggy because they run in only 960x544 or less but games like Uncharted have a lot more going on in them than an Unreal based tegra games (which is one of the reasons some Vita games are running at sub native resolutions)

But Vita games should not run in a lower resolution just to push out better visuals when the screen is low resolution as it is

 

[goonergaz]

This again, in direct response to a thread of discussion about how it is just a stale collection of sequels. A vocal minority is not a consensus.

ok, I can see where this is going - but I know from reading various sites the overal view of the launch line-up was very favourable - maybe we should compare all machines launch line-ups?

 

[Metallix87]

ok, I can see where this is going - but I know from reading various sites the overal view of the launch line-up was very favourable - maybe we should compare all machines launch line-ups?

This is not the topic for that, and it would all be subjective anyway.

The point is, as "impressive" as the Vita launch lineup supposedly was, it wasn't impressive enough to get gamers on board.

 

[goonergaz]

Your link is with regards to cost of materials. That is irrelevant, since it fails to take into account a lot of other costs associated with manufacturing and shipping the devices.

Granted, but it's hardly irrelevant and it's far more of a gauge than anything you have provided.