just to be clear - I totally agree!
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Poor Vita performance dragging down Sony's entire gaming unit
- Thread starter SmokedMeat
- Start date
just to be clear - I totally agree!
Metallix87
Member
How, exactly?
What you're trying to imply is that Sony simply pays the $159 for the materials, and magically the Vita assembles itself, installs it's OS itself, ships itself to the stores and puts itself on the shelves. Magic!
Shai-Tan
Banned
that's debatable. it would be nice if everything would run native but it also has a high ppi so games can get away with it. uncharted run sub native and it looks great. some other games are sub native and it's probably because they aren't utilizing the hardware right but I think that will improve over time.
So by that logic every game that scores well with the enthusiast press will also sell well?
This.
If the vita honestly cost them 160$ to get out the door they would have already slashed prices hard to get momentum.
The point is the 'poor launch line up' is being muted as a point as to why it's failing - I disagree because the general thought was there was too much at launch making it stupidly expensive and then nothing decent for a while after and we don't vene get a trickle now.
Metallix87
Member
No, that's not the point you've just been making. You were saying that everyone agreed it was one of, if not the best launch for a system ever.
If this were true, these launch titles would've enticed more consumers into buying the Vita. Instead, here we are in this topic about the Vita being a sales disaster.
It's more than has been provided to counter. And anyone will tell you it won't cost ~$150 in labour/materials/shipping to get to store.
Such points should always be stated:
"It has the greatest launch line-up ever!... If you're me."
I said general concensus not everyone. Not only that there are clearly other factors at play here - I feel price was way more of a factor than line-up...as stated, the unit should have been cheaper and had 2/4GB mem onboard.
lowrider007
Licorice-flavoured booze?
I don't think things are going to improve, I honestly believe something is holding the vita back technically and my guess it's the cpu, I'm not buying the "it's the devs fault" line, everybody says it's supposed to be easy to programme on the Vita so what is it that devs are struggling with?
Metallix87
Member
I've already countered it. You posted a link saying the parts cost ~$160, and implied that this was the proof that Vita wasn't being sold at a loss. I then said "You're ignoring manufacturing and shipping costs", and here you are moving the goal post and demanding that I provide numbers for the manufacturing and shipping costs, something which only Sony could provide. You're being ridiculous.
I still think the launch line up for Vita was pretty good in comparison to other consoles. Usually with launch consoles I play them for a bit, and then not touch it for ages due to waiting on more games. However I've pretty consistently played my Vita since I got it.
I think the price and it not having much to differentiate it is what goes against it. It's a great piece of tech, but there's nothing amazingly different about it what would make people want to buy it. I don't really care for the 3D on the 3DS, but it's something different that no other handheld offers.
I think the price and it not having much to differentiate it is what goes against it. It's a great piece of tech, but there's nothing amazingly different about it what would make people want to buy it. I don't really care for the 3D on the 3DS, but it's something different that no other handheld offers.
If the Vita with it's launch lineup launched in 2001 it would be the best selling handheld of all time. There was nothing wrong with the Vita's launch lineup. Vita has great games. Vita is doing well for the market that its in--portable console gaming for the 18-34 crowd in 2012.
This is my demographic. If I use myself as an example, the Vita doesn't fit into my life. The only time I have enough time to play a Vita (or any portable) game is at home after work or on the weekends. But then again, I own consoles. I'll play them before I whip out a handheld. There are some gaming adults that use public transit that this would be appropriate for. But is that market big enough to sustain Vita?
You switch to the 8-17 year-old crowd and there's a market there. How many devs are going to want to spend millions developing portable console games for a niche market?
This is my demographic. If I use myself as an example, the Vita doesn't fit into my life. The only time I have enough time to play a Vita (or any portable) game is at home after work or on the weekends. But then again, I own consoles. I'll play them before I whip out a handheld. There are some gaming adults that use public transit that this would be appropriate for. But is that market big enough to sustain Vita?
You switch to the 8-17 year-old crowd and there's a market there. How many devs are going to want to spend millions developing portable console games for a niche market?
shinra-bansho
Member
Foxconn commune slave manufacturing goes for a few dollars a piece.
Hirai was the one who gave a timeframe of three years, not Yoshida. And presumably was referring to the venture, given the PSV's relatively off-the-shelf design. Although considering sales it may not achieve that.
Yoshida has mentioned designing towards a target price and aiming for profit at that price.
While House has talked about blended margins.
Hirai was the one who gave a timeframe of three years, not Yoshida. And presumably was referring to the venture, given the PSV's relatively off-the-shelf design. Although considering sales it may not achieve that.
Yoshida has mentioned designing towards a target price and aiming for profit at that price.
While House has talked about blended margins.
GoofsterStud
Member
I just want to say that Nexus7 has an 8gb and 16gb version. 8GB for $50 isn't unheard of. 
Still the memory cards are awful:
Faster tech
Super encryption
Slower actual performance then old tech
Cost of new tech++
Still the memory cards are awful:
Faster tech
Super encryption
Slower actual performance then old tech
Cost of new tech++
Software is how a platform differentiates itself. No one gives a crap about Vita's tech or the 3DS's worthless 3D option. The 3DS got software that people wanted to play and the Vita didn't.
Very good post. I agree mostly on consoles. Some of the Wii audience was traditional Nintendo fans who will remain, but most of it I don't see returning
The DS I see a bit differently. Handhelds had been continuing to grow. I don't see it as an exception so much as the constitution of a rapidly growing industry (then). Now I agree much that audience isn't coming back, but I unlike the Wii, I don't see the DS as remarkably different from the Game Boy Advance. In short, I think the Wii brought in a new audience that wouldn't have been there otherwise, but the DS built on momentum that was coming to handhelds anyway (it certainly was better able to bring in some new gamers than other styles might have, but I don't think it's as big a factor as it was with the Wii).No. Vita is NOT doing well. I also really doubt it would be the "best selling handheld of all time". And Vita had great games, too bad there is so little of them.
Yes. A lot of people prefer handhelds over consoles. Also, that is one of the reasons Vita is failing: it should offer unique experiences instead of being a "PS3 on the go" or something.
Wait, 8-17 years old? Where does this number come from anyway? All ages play videogames. Sony and Nintendo try to target everybody, they want to sell as many as possible. And where the hell do you get the idea 8-17 years old is a "niche market"? It is a pretty big market if you ask me...
lunchwithyuzo
Banned
US ltds for top "launch software" (NPD):
Vita
01. Uncharted: Golden Abyss
>200k>
02. Ultimate Marvel vs Capcom 3
>100k
3DS
400k>
Super Street Fighter IV 3D Edition
>300k>
Lego Star Wars III: The Clone Wars
Pilotwings Resort
>250k>200k>
Nintendogs + cats: French Bulldog & New Friends
Nintendogs + cats: Golden Retriever & New Friends
Nintendogs + cats: Toy Poodle & New Friends
>150k>
Asphalt 3D
Rayman 3D
Super Monkey Ball 3D
>130k
And Japan top 10 3DS+Vita (Famitsu):
01 [3DS] Nintendogs + cats (all): 541,187
02 [3DS] Professor Layton and the Miracle Mask: 354,344
03 [3DS] Samuari Warriors Chronicles: 147,777
04 [3DS] Super Street Fighter IV 3D Edition: 137,833
05 [3DS] Ridge Racer 3D: 104,893
06 [3DS] Pro Evolution Soccer 2011 3D: 101,088
07 [PSV] Hot Shots Golf: World Invitational: 93,795
08 [PSV] Uncharted: Golden Abyss: 58,213
09 [PSV] Dynasty Warriors Next: 45,242
10 [PSV] Lord of Apocalypse: 29,111
I disagree. The main problem is that it can't devlier PS3 on the go. All the PS3-like experiences we get are downports.
Sony doesn't even let their A-teams work on the system. Everyone has better things (basically PS3/PS4 stuff) to do and no one gives Vita any attention. LBP Vita? Yeah, let's not have MM work on that one. Uncharted on Vita? Better not waste any Naughty Dog ressources on this game. Not to say these games are bad but Unchated, while being good, is just not as good as ND's works. These games could be so much better if Sony were more aggressive about putting their best people behind the projects so they can have the best game possible.
And then they have a great looking game like SoundShapes and poof. No confidence in it... again. Better delay it and make a PS3 port so there's one less exclusive on the platform that's already on its way down.
but even then, would people choose the Vita over the console experience if they have a PS3 even if they prefer handhelds? Not sure. I agree though, that Sony is slagging off where the console experience on Vita is concerned. It might work, but it is as you are saying, they should definitely have some A-teams working on these projects then. Which is not what they aredoing and which is a damn shame...
You know I sorta agree. I think if they truly did offer the PS3 experience on a handheld, I'd be alright with ports. The fact of the matter is that the Vita has not delivered on the promises of an improved PSN and the Vita is far from a streamlined or smooth experience (especially so when you are online).
electroplankton
Banned
Uncharted sold less than Pilotwings? Wow
I think when it comes to PS3-like experiences on the Vita, Sony really just needs to get their main developers working on it or not bother at all.
Playing God of War on the PSP as well as Resistance and Uncharted on the Vita, something about them just felt off. You were playing something that felt like it was in the same series as the console versions, but the games always felt like they weren't made by the same people who made the console versions that were loved.
You never really hear about teams at Nintendo or Square-Enix making separate teams just devoted to handheld games. They have typically the same teams working on the same franchises whether they are handheld games or console games.
Sony really just needs their portable teams to create their own games and not try to live up to the expectations of their console big brothers.
Playing God of War on the PSP as well as Resistance and Uncharted on the Vita, something about them just felt off. You were playing something that felt like it was in the same series as the console versions, but the games always felt like they weren't made by the same people who made the console versions that were loved.
You never really hear about teams at Nintendo or Square-Enix making separate teams just devoted to handheld games. They have typically the same teams working on the same franchises whether they are handheld games or console games.
Sony really just needs their portable teams to create their own games and not try to live up to the expectations of their console big brothers.
Resistance though i liked it it didn't felt like an insomniac resistance but for gow i completely disagree,both gow games sold very well on the psp too,they definitely were awesome be it the controls or the graphics same for uncharted though it hasn't sold nearly as well
Sony's caught between a rock and a hard place. The Vita isn't selling, but they can't afford to piss off investors right now with further price drops or marketing campaigns since the company as a whole is on shaky ground. Does Sony really want to throw good money after bad at this point?
They could be trying to have the Vita follow in Move's footsteps. A modest success that sells more or less without major marketing, is built around minor tweaks to existing games, sells at a per-unit profit, and doesn't have any overly-expensive exclusive projects.
It's got to the point now where I'm not sure what people who mention the Vita's launch lineup actually think they're trying to achieve.
"Best Launch Lineup Ever" or not, that lineup didn't translate to sales at launch and it hasn't helped the Vita's long term release schedule or sales prospects since. Right now the fact that the Vita had a solid round of launch software counts for absolutely shit all.
"Best Launch Lineup Ever" or not, that lineup didn't translate to sales at launch and it hasn't helped the Vita's long term release schedule or sales prospects since. Right now the fact that the Vita had a solid round of launch software counts for absolutely shit all.
The problem was the launch lineup was way too packed and there were not many major releases after launch and this is going to continue till lbp vita
BLACK AMERICAN PSYCHO
Junior Member
Will the madden bundle increase sells at all?
AndrewDean84xX
Banned
It wont hurt them. I still wonder why we haven't seen gameplay video.
Exactly my point. They could have saved half the Vita launch lineup for the later weeks and still had a good launch. Which is a testament to how good the launch was, really.
It's not about shitting on the Vita for the sake of shitting on the Vita, either. I was there for the launch and it was very good. I've never spent so much money on software right out of the gate as I did with the Vita launch, and still had games I wanted but couldn't afford the time or money to buy straight away.
That was February though, and like I say, that launch has evidently done little for the short or long term future of the Vita since, so in my opinion talk of how great the Vita launch was is absolutely irrelevant at this point. It counts for nothing. We're at the stage where people should be talking either about software released in the 7 months since then, or the software due between now and February 2012 when the Vita reaches it's first year on the market globally.
One possible plus point, Sony U.K. was supposed to launch an ice white PSP e1000 model for the kid's summer holidays. It has failed to appear so far, three weeks in to the holidays,
So perhaps they've seen sense and quietly canned it to direct more focus on the Vita? Then again, there's been no Vita marketing of note from Sony UK at all recently, so who knows!
It definitely hasn't. Everything looked so promising in the beginning but as always with Sony there's a huge but to every single promising feature.
It will play PSOne Games.
But not now and no one knows when that'll happen
It'll actually support PSN.
But it'll disconnect you for no real reason all the time and some games sign you out of the network anyways.
It'll support cross-game-chat.
But that's a different app and you can't use it with every game.
It'll use flash cards.
But you may not be able to put your game save on them.
It's not region locked.
But you can only have one account on the system.
It'll have Trophies.
But they'll not appear on your other Trophy-enabled system.
It has a screenshot feature
But devs can disable it.
I'm not sure if that costs them sales but it definitely is something people on message boards read and something they'll remember as being something negative about the PSVita. Sony can't catch a break but they also make it very easy to criticize them again and again for simple things.
And what about Japan where handheld gaming is very popular yet the Vita has bombed big time. Plenty 18-34 year olds play with there 3DS or PSP's in Japan.
Didnt sony actually say there were not aiming for the 8-17 year old market which is just absurd!!!
electroplankton
Banned
Who has the graph comparing Vita and DC shipments worldwide (there were other platforms, though)?
lowrider007
Licorice-flavoured booze?
Agreed, seriously, proprietary memory cards for games saves is an insult when the games carts/cards could of blatantly been used for game saves, it's like spitting in the face of your consumers, it wasn't needed at all.
Bending_Unit_22
Member
I thought I read Sony wanted their "A-teams" to work on Vita but several at least said "hell no, we ain't working on no underpowered handheld". I don't follow the Sony scene too closely but I recall one was Naughty Dog.
Isn't that graph just for Japan? I know it has the Vita dangerously close to falling under the Dreamcast, only P4 and the new color stopped it from happening soon.
Wouldn't doubt it. Anytime you make the average consumer go from "buy this, do whatever with it" to "buy this, and to do whatever with it you also need to also buy this" they immediately think I'm getting shafted here. Doesn't matter if it would have been a $300 Vita+memory card instead of a $250 Vita + $50 memory card, the average consumer still thinks they're getting shafted.
Yeah, there should have been onboard storage for small PSN games and then every other game saves to the cart. The other major problem, though, is this in my opinion.
Every game looks like it's been done before. I'll compare my Vita collection to my 3DS collection. I prefer the Vita, but in terms of new content it's lacking.
Rayman Origins (Available on consoles and 3DS)
Tales From Space: Mutant Blobs Attack (Another in the series available on PS3)
Gravity Rush (Completely unique to the Vita)
Lumines: Electronic Symphony (Other better versions of the series available on PSP)
Uncharted: Golden Abyss (Other better games in the series available on PS3)
FIFA Soccer (Plays on 360 and PS3)
WipEout 2048 (Plays on PS3)
Disgaea 3: Absence of Detention (Plays on PS3)
Plants vs. Zombies (Plays on iOS)
MLB 12: The Show (Plays on PS3)
Hot Shots Golf: World Invitational (Other versions exist on PSP)
Unit 13 (Completely unique to the Vita)
Escape Plan (Completely unique to the Vita)
Touch My Katamari (Other better versions available on PS2/PS3)
So out of all the Vita games I own (and I own most of them) only 3 games are exclusive to the Vita. Everything else is available on a console I already own or they had better or comparable versions on the PSP. So if you already have consoles Escape Plan, Gravity Rush and Sound Shapes are your new experiences.
Yes, 3DS games are rehashes frequently, but they're usually markedly different. On my 3DS currently I have Cave Story, Super Mario 3D Land, Kingdom Hearts 3D, Theatrythm, Pushmo and a number of virtual console games. There are many games on that list that had previous versions on other consoles, but by and large those are new experiences unique to the 3DS. Once I finished with Gravity Rush I was staring down a list of games I already played on superior platforms or had no interest in playing. The future looks dim without more new experiences.
Every game looks like it's been done before. I'll compare my Vita collection to my 3DS collection. I prefer the Vita, but in terms of new content it's lacking.
Rayman Origins (Available on consoles and 3DS)
Tales From Space: Mutant Blobs Attack (Another in the series available on PS3)
Gravity Rush (Completely unique to the Vita)
Lumines: Electronic Symphony (Other better versions of the series available on PSP)
Uncharted: Golden Abyss (Other better games in the series available on PS3)
FIFA Soccer (Plays on 360 and PS3)
WipEout 2048 (Plays on PS3)
Disgaea 3: Absence of Detention (Plays on PS3)
Plants vs. Zombies (Plays on iOS)
MLB 12: The Show (Plays on PS3)
Hot Shots Golf: World Invitational (Other versions exist on PSP)
Unit 13 (Completely unique to the Vita)
Escape Plan (Completely unique to the Vita)
Touch My Katamari (Other better versions available on PS2/PS3)
So out of all the Vita games I own (and I own most of them) only 3 games are exclusive to the Vita. Everything else is available on a console I already own or they had better or comparable versions on the PSP. So if you already have consoles Escape Plan, Gravity Rush and Sound Shapes are your new experiences.
Yes, 3DS games are rehashes frequently, but they're usually markedly different. On my 3DS currently I have Cave Story, Super Mario 3D Land, Kingdom Hearts 3D, Theatrythm, Pushmo and a number of virtual console games. There are many games on that list that had previous versions on other consoles, but by and large those are new experiences unique to the 3DS. Once I finished with Gravity Rush I was staring down a list of games I already played on superior platforms or had no interest in playing. The future looks dim without more new experiences.
slightconfuse
Banned
not suprsing the vita is a bit pricey , the memeory cards are too over priced and the games are not quite there. besides gravity rush and sound shapes. plus sony barely advertises the thing. there was what 2 vita games at e3.
plus the 3DS is picking up steam with games like kid Icarus, ryhtem thief and kingdom hearts
plus the 3DS is picking up steam with games like kid Icarus, ryhtem thief and kingdom hearts
TDLink
Member
The Vita did not have "the best launch lineup ever". To be fair though most launch lineups for any system have been mediocre at best and Vita's was at least decent. I am not really sure it was better than 3DS' though, especially when looking at those sales figures of launch games on both that sold over 100k someone posted a while back here.
One thing is for sure, regardless of what you think of the launch lineup's strength it obviously was not successful due to the low sales and the situation the system is in right now.
I think another cause for concern that no one is bringing up is that most of the Sony 1st party games coming up for Vita are not actually Vita games...but PS3 games that have "cross-play" down-ports. I am talking games like Sly 4 and Playstation All Stars. Either game could have worked great as a Vita exclusive but who honestly is going to want the Vita versions over the PS3 versions? Moreover, I am not really sure who is benefiting from cross-play. In theory the idea is awesome but in reality you need to buy both the PS3 and PSV versions to even make use of it. So if I want to play Sly 4 on PS3 then take it on the go with me I need to plop down $100 just to use the cross-play feature.
I think Sony could move a lot more units by promoting "cross-play" better and including PSV versions of games with PS3 purchases. Sort of like how some blu-rays also net you a "digital copy". For people who only want PSV versions they would end up paying the full console price...sucks for them but Sony would actually make more money from that viewpoint. For people who want to play it on both they now can by only paying $60 instead of $100. By giving people PSV versions it also entices people to actually want to own a PSV so they can make use of them. It wouldn't save the Vita in an instant but this strategy would be a good step in the right direction. Right now I just can't see the cross-play thing in its current form actually being utilized that often though, and that's a misstep.
One thing is for sure, regardless of what you think of the launch lineup's strength it obviously was not successful due to the low sales and the situation the system is in right now.
I think another cause for concern that no one is bringing up is that most of the Sony 1st party games coming up for Vita are not actually Vita games...but PS3 games that have "cross-play" down-ports. I am talking games like Sly 4 and Playstation All Stars. Either game could have worked great as a Vita exclusive but who honestly is going to want the Vita versions over the PS3 versions? Moreover, I am not really sure who is benefiting from cross-play. In theory the idea is awesome but in reality you need to buy both the PS3 and PSV versions to even make use of it. So if I want to play Sly 4 on PS3 then take it on the go with me I need to plop down $100 just to use the cross-play feature.
I think Sony could move a lot more units by promoting "cross-play" better and including PSV versions of games with PS3 purchases. Sort of like how some blu-rays also net you a "digital copy". For people who only want PSV versions they would end up paying the full console price...sucks for them but Sony would actually make more money from that viewpoint. For people who want to play it on both they now can by only paying $60 instead of $100. By giving people PSV versions it also entices people to actually want to own a PSV so they can make use of them. It wouldn't save the Vita in an instant but this strategy would be a good step in the right direction. Right now I just can't see the cross-play thing in its current form actually being utilized that often though, and that's a misstep.
OldJadedGamer
Banned
Runs on batteries = portable.
Father_Brain
Banned
BTW, now that Mielke has to effectively beg his fans to help convince Ubisoft to greenlight Lumines DLC, I wonder if he still thinks that people are "imagining" that Vita has problems.
Count Dookkake
Member
.
There are no Vita shipments worldwide information and there probably won't be.
Hopefully the Vita will (officially) die before the PS4 is released so Sony can go back to separating PS2, PS3 and PS4 shipments.
SmokedMeat
Gamer™
Doesn't take away from the fact that it was a strong launch lineup. Since when was what gamers are jumping to purchase the measuring stick of what's great?
OldJadedGamer
Banned
And the fact that PS3 has open memory is worse. The second I heard the Vita would be the first system in history to *require* memory cards just to boot games, I knew it was an uphill battle for them. Requiring them to boot games almost seems like a flaw in the main system like something was left out from the core design.
Gemüsepizza
Member
The Vita won't die. Some people really fail to look at this from a long term perspective. While the Vita is probably not yet profitable, it does not lose huge amounts of money on a daily basis. And it will be profitable at some point in the near future. So there is no reason to panic. The PS Vita does not have to be as successful as the DS or any other handheld. It has to be profitable and be an interesting addition to the Playstation brand. That can and will be achieved. Anything above that is a bonus.
PS: Why do people here think that the loss in the last quarter is from the Vita? And do people really think, $45 million in this business is that much money?
PS: Why do people here think that the loss in the last quarter is from the Vita? And do people really think, $45 million in this business is that much money?