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[The Nature Roy]

Speaking of 3rd party support for Vita, it's just starting to get more worse for the platform in that category.

Sony Having Difficult Time Getting Third Party Support For The PS Vita.

Honestly, this is the biggest thing holding me back from getting a Vita.

Weak as it may be now, I'm afraid to think where it's headed in terms of 3rd party support... Big name franchises like COD and AC were committed to pre-launch when the machine had to be expected to perform better than it is. Meanwhile, it seems most developers were waiting to see how it did before deciding whether or not to join in. Well, who is going to commit quality dev teams and big budgets to the Vita now?

COD, AC, or some other 3rd party title is going to have to prove to be a real system seller to convince others to develop for it. Without stronger hardware sales, it's going to be difficult to get others to develop games for it and without a strong line-up of 3rd party games, it's hard to see how Vita is going to turn things around sales-wise. It's a bit of a catch 22 at this point.

I think the device is really cool, but I don't want to invest in a product that isn't going to offer a steady stream of compelling software beyond what already exists or has been announced. I'm still holding out hope and don't want to be yet another doomsayer, but...

 

[jrDev]

Speaking of 3rd party support for Vita, it's just starting to get more worse for the platform in that category.

Sony Having Difficult Time Getting Third Party Support For The PS Vita.

Hmm...new thread material?

 

[GoofsterStud]

Wow, they're pointing to Assassin's Creed to be the proof of 3rd-party success?

They really have no fucking clue anymore, do they?

Well they are setting this up so if Assassin Creed flops they have no choice but to jump ship. :-/

I am Assassin Creed out, so I'm not sure that's a good basket to put all your eggs in.

 

[IllumiNate]

Hmm...new thread material?

I'd say so yes, after reading that I kinda puked a bit. If I was an investor in Vita shares id jump ship reading that.
My Vita purchase is justified as long as Souls Sacrifice hits the west. But I'm not holding out hope after that.

 

[conman]

This is pretty much what I think too. Nintendo does not discriminate when it comes to its handhelds and puts its best and brightest to work on games for it. Why would any 3rd party publisher/developer in their right mind risk their own resources on it when sony dosen't seem to care? They need to get their act together or just don't bother making any future handhelds.

Not only do they toss 2nd tier teams at it, but when something really promising like Sound Shapes comes along, they undermine its role on the Vita by releasing it for PS3 too. If Sony's hedging their own bets, why would 3rd parties bother?

 

[mujun]

tIsn't it ridiculous to suggest that the Vita is already making profit on each unit? XBOX and PS3 both took something like 2-3 years to reach profitability and the Vita has always been hyped as a cutting edge machine, OLED screen and all that. How is it possible that the machine is profitable 6 months (longer in Japan) after releasing?

 

[Maastricht]

I would assume because it uses mostly off the shelf parts, most of which are widely (or increasingly) used in smartphones and tablets. Tonnes of popular Android phones use OLED screens (to the point where Android by default uses a black background because it is more energy efficient on OLED), the GPU is similar to that in the iPad, main memory is the same as in most phones, etc. The CPU being quad-core is still not that widely used in Tablets and Phones, but that will probably change this year and the next. Leaving mostly the memory stick as a weak, because proprietary, link.

Contrast this with the PS3, many of which were never really used anywhere else (Cell, RSX) and other parts took much longer to become popular (BluRay, HDMI).

 

[GoofsterStud]

tIsn't it ridiculous to suggest that the Vita is already making profit on each unit? XBOX and PS3 both took something like 2-3 years to reach profitability and the Vita has always been hyped as a cutting edge machine, OLED screen and all that. How is it possible that the machine is profitable 6 months (longer in Japan) after releasing?

We've got a PlayStation Vita from Japan, sure, but we're not taking it apart all willy-nilly like some people. But if we did, and we also had a keen eye for the price of specific electronics components, we might have already realized the pieces comprising the device could add up to $160 in total.

Unsurprisingly, the display and touchscreens are said to account for the bulk of the estimated cost at $50, while no other piece of the device even crests the $20 mark. Of course, none of this pricing includes the cost of research and development, testing, shipping, manufacturing, marketing, etc., so it's not exactly a perfect representation of the investment Sony has made with its latest handheld.

It does, however, give the Japanese hardware giant approximately $140 of space to work with on making the more expensive Vita (the $300 3G one) profitable from the jump, not to mention the 3G-less $250 model.

Publications sure don't think so. It still needs to recoup it's R&D fee. It's only gone down since January 2012.

I was surprised to see this, but apparently the Vita has had a teardown analysis and it was estimated that it costs Sony $160 to make each unit.

Here is the cost breakdown:

Display and touchscreens: $50
Battery: $3.60
Cameras: $3.50
Wi-Fi/BT/GPS: $3.50
NAND: $6.00
SDRAM: $9.25
Processor: $16.00
BB+XCR: $16.25
Non-electronic: $11.00
Other: $30.00
Supporting materials: $10.00

So if this is the case then Sony is making approximately $90 on each Wifi Vita and $140 on each 3G Vita. Before this I had always assumed that Sony was producing the Vita at a loss.

Because of this I see now that Sony can afford to drop the price on the Vita, should that need arise..

Sources:

http://vita.ign.com/articles/121/1216968p1.html

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2012-01-20-is-the-playstation-vita-worth-230

http://www.ubmtechinsights.com/teardowns/sony-playstation-vita-teardown/?pi_campaign_id=13825

Doesn't seem to far fetched now does it?

 

[Terrell]

I really don't know what you're trying to say here.

Assassin's Creed only means something to certain territories, it's not going to set the Japanese development community into a frenzy if it does well. And c'mon, if people won't buy the system for Uncharted, an Assassin's Creed off-shoot isn't gonna fair much better.

I figured all those points were pretty clear. Guess not.

 

[AdventureRacing]

Btw. Thanks for reminding me why I dislike taking part in discussions on this subject. Too much snark and not enough intelligent debate.

Intelligent debate? You are honestly sitting here and acting like the general public and media have some sort of responsibility to advertise the vita which is simply ridiculous. Your implication that somehow people posting negative comments on internet forums is in anyway related to the success of the vita is just as bad.

You have posted this same argument in countless threads and there is a reason it is essentially always ignored and that's because it makes no sense.

The vita was failing badly long before all this negativity (and in fact before release there was a lot of positivity surrounding the vita, especially after its price was announced). Of course that is irrelevant because the comments you read on forums mean nothing in the grand scheme of things.

The thing is though even if it were true that negative comments were affecting the vita than whos fault is that? The media and the general public have no responsibility to help sony move their products. If the vita is selling like shit and things are looking bad for it than that is what people will say.

 

[mujun]

Publications sure don't think so. It still needs to recoup it's R&D fee. It's only gone down since January 2012.



Doesn't seem to far fetched now does it?

Fair enough. They should drop the bloody price then!

 

[MightyHedgehog]

Fair enough. They should drop the bloody price then!

Wouldn't those estimated costs reflect economies of scale anticipated by a level of component orders which come from a sales performance which Vita doesn't currently maintain or never once achieved while on the market? I'd say that it seems that Sony will take a much bigger hit than those numbers suggest when those price changes occur.

 

[Takamura-San]

Publications sure don't think so. It still needs to recoup it's R&D fee. It's only gone down since January 2012.



Doesn't seem to far fetched now does it?

Sigh...

That's just components.

Labor.

Distribution.

Packaging.

R&D.

Just a few things that you seem not to mention.

Electronics are not made and taken to store by just buying components.

It may be making a profit to sony (doubt it) but is not as blatant as you make it seem.

 

[Clear]

Intelligent debate? You are honestly sitting here and acting like the general public and media have some sort of responsibility to advertise the vita which is simply ridiculous.

Why do you persist in bringing the general public into this? I was completely specific about the "enthusiast press". Read first, before launching into fits of passive aggression.

Insinuating I stated something that I didn't is not discussion, its argument. I'm not arguing with you.

Same deal with Father_Brain and Sipowicz; if you calmed down and not acted like I had verbally abused a family member I might bother to respond to you. Consider simply disagreeing with me, its far more persuasive than getting salty about it.

For the record my perception of events is the Vita has been squashed in the enthusiast press, a response that I find illustrative of its failings as an institution. Far too many words are used buttressing perceived "truths" (eg iOS/Android = all anyone needs for mobile gaming) and pandering to their readership's perceived prejudices and beliefs. The story from day #1 was that Vita would fail, and they've played their part in ensuring the prophecy would fulfill itself.

You disagree with that, fine. But if you want to challenge me on this, try demonstrating that my perception is faulty through some sort of factual means or rational counter-argument.

 

[AdventureRacing]

Why do you persist in bringing the general public into this? I was completely specific about the "enthusiast press".

I've read this argument in many threads and it usually doesn't just dicuss "enthusiast press", i was responding to this ongoing discussion you have brought up many times not just 1 post. Regardless it's obvious why i brought the general public into this, they're the ones buying the vita. The core gamer you're talking about is a tiny fraction of the people who actually buy gaming consoles and i feel pretty damn confident that they aren't the ones that sony are struggling to sell to.

On top of it all as i mentioned above the negativity around the vita only started when the vita started selling bad (which is the most obvious proof that it isn't the reason the vita is failing). What do you want them to say? They aren't invested in sony. Just like they ripped into the wii, 3DS, PS3 and any other stuggling console they are going to do the same when the vita is flooping badly.

What's needed to "save" the Vita is a bit of positivity on the part of the enthusiast press, who to me seem to have formed a queue to stamp and piss all over the platform's prospects since the day it was announced.

How can you improve mindshare when people are so down on it?

I have 2 problems with this as well. The first you are almost implying as if this is a specific issue for the vita. If a product performs badly it gets pannd and people feel down on it. That's how things work for every product and isn't a specific issue for the vita.

Secondly things haven't been this negative since the start and if anything after its price was announced and the 3DS started with a whimper the reception to the vita wasn't that bad. The press only really started jumping all over it when it was clear how bad it was failing.

Read first, before launching into fits of passive aggression.

Insinuating I stated something that I didn't is not discussion, its argument. I'm not arguing with you.

Same deal with Father_Brain and Sipowicz; if you calmed down and not acted like I had verbally abused a family member I might bother to respond to you. Consider simply disagreeing with me, its far more persuasive than getting salty about it.

There is no passive aggression, i just straight up think your argument is ridiculous and has been shot down in countless threads and you constantly keep harping on the same line. You also get extremely defensive and start calling everyone else aggressive and salty.

I'm not going to respond to anymore of this childish stuff. How in my post disagreeing with you did i act like you verbally abused a member of my family? If you weren't so personally invested in this you wouldn't be spouting nonsense like that.

Edit:

I'm also worldly and smart enough to realize how damaging this sort of reaction is when trying to appeal beyond the "core" market segment; Y'know the sort of people who skim the front-pages of the major sites and don't get further than the latest "Vita is doomed" headline.

It's also a little silly to call everyone else salty and aggressive when you're posting stuff like this. Calling everyone else dumb and blind and yourself wordly and smart (seriously?) isn't exactly condusive to discussion. Also again as i mentioned above those negative headlines are just so meaningless. Did they stop the wii from appealing beyond the 'core' market (where it sold almost exclusively to). I'm sure the negative press isn't helping but it is not the reason the vita is failing.

You disagree with that, fine. But if you want to challenge me on this, try demonstrating that my perception is faulty through some sort of factual means or rational counter-argument.

I have done that and you have ignored every single point i made. Unless you respond to them this discussion can't really go any further.

 

[Father_Brain]

Same deal with Father_Brain and Sipowicz; if you calmed down and not acted like I had verbally abused a family member I might bother to respond to you. Consider simply disagreeing with me, its far more persuasive than getting salty about it.

This is what we call "projection."

For the record my perception of events is the Vita has been squashed in the enthusiast press, a response that I find illustrative of its failings as an institution. Far too many words are used buttressing perceived "truths" (eg iOS/Android = all anyone needs for mobile gaming) and pandering to their readership's perceived prejudices and beliefs. The story from day #1 was that Vita would fail, and they've played their part in ensuring the prophecy would fulfill itself.

Believe it or not, I completely agree that much of the enthusiast press have been too quick to embrace the "app stores will forever destroy dedicated handhelds" narrative. What I find absurd is the notion that they've applied this narrative much more harshly to Vita than they did to 3DS, and that Vita coverage has been negative from day 1; it was overwhelmingly positive from the NGP unveiling until the 3DS price cut, and even then, I'm not sure it turned mostly negative until the Japanese sales figures started coming in.

 

[Clear]

Believe it or not, I completely agree that much of the enthusiast press have been too quick to embrace the "app stores will forever destroy dedicated handhelds" narrative. What I find absurd is the notion that they've applied this narrative much more harshly to Vita than they did to 3DS, and that Vita coverage has been negative from day 1; it was overwhelmingly positive from the NGP unveiling until the 3DS price cut, and even then, I'm not sure it turned mostly negative until the Japanese sales figures started coming in.

I answered that already. The relative market performance of Sony and Nintendo's previous handheld platforms are such that you can't expect the impact of a generally negative outlook in the gaming press to have an equal impact across both systems.

Its like the difference between launching a new entry in a AAA franchise to one that has only done fair to middling in the past, one of these needs more support than the other from the press to be "successful". This should be inescapably obvious to anyone.

 

[10k]

Is it sad that the only reason I have kept my vita is to play final fantasy 1-9, psone classics, and Assassins Creed?

I want to love this thing. I want to use it more. I have uncharted and FIFA for it. I had mortal kombat but traded it in because it wasn't as good as the PS3 version IMO and I've tried lots of demoes but they didn't do it for me. Gravity Rush seems fun, but I don't think I would play it more than once. Resistance was awful. I'm still waiting on some big RPG like a tales game or something and God of War. I don't like CoD, so this year I basically bought a $250 handheld to play 3 games and a bunch of psone games that came out 15 years ago

 

[Father_Brain]

I answered that already. The relative market performance of Sony and Nintendo's previous handheld platforms are such that you can't expect the impact of a generally negative outlook in the gaming press to have an equal impact across both systems.

Its like the difference between launching a new entry in a AAA franchise to one that has only done fair to middling in the past, one of these needs more support than the other from the press to be "successful". This should be inescapably obvious to anyone.

Even if that were true, it's Sony's job, and not the press' or anyone else's, to make Vita a platform that enthusiast gamers will want to fully get behind.

 

[FoneBone]

I answered that already. The relative market performance of Sony and Nintendo's previous handheld platforms are such that you can't expect the impact of a generally negative outlook in the gaming press to have an equal impact across both systems.

Its like the difference between launching a new entry in a AAA franchise to one that has only done fair to middling in the past, one of these needs more support than the other from the press to be "successful". This should be inescapably obvious to anyone.

Could you maybe cite a source for your argument that the enthusiast press is capable of having anything resembling a significant impact on sales?

 

[To Far Away Times]

Sigh...

That's just components.

Labor.

Distribution.

Packaging.

R&D.

Just a few things that you seem not to mention.

Electronics are not made and taken to store by just buying components.

It may be making a profit to sony (doubt it) but is not as blatant as you make it seem.

This. Sony has said that they would take a loss on the Vita hardware for 3 years. Keep in mind that sales were projected to be much higher at the time as well. The slower it sells, the less that Sony can take advantage of economies of scale and reduce production costs.

 

[JonathanPower]

It's very funny to see the Twitter reaction of Sony’s Shuhei Yoshida after seeing the Droid X360:

https://twitter.com/yosp/status/227834960919277568

The vita look-alike Android-powered handheld is gaining a lot of interest since it cames with emulators and games, and if it were not for the bad control inputs, it would be a very neat machine.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-4SGYq50Zog

So maybe this is what Sony should have done to make Vita a success:

Vita should have been a Tegra3 device with Android 4.0 and preinstalled emulators.