DeepEnigma
Gold Member
I see what you're saying, I'm talking about the times where the comparisons were made with 3rd party games and some indie games with how it was on with the Xbox but not the PS4.
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Possible hint at AMD's next-gen APU (codename: Gonzalo) - 8 cores, 3.2GHz clock, Navi 10-based GPU
- Thread starter Dontero
- Start date
I see what you're saying, I'm talking about the times where the comparisons were made with 3rd party games and some indie games with how it was on with the Xbox but not the PS4.
Chozofication_
Banned
Yeah, that could be ps4's tools. Perhaps it's a one button implementation on xbox one and takes more fiddling on ps4.
Or perhaps different people in the dev team work on the different versions hence different AF results.
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joe_zazen
Member
I hope so as I am not keen to go the $400 launch +$500 mid gen again. give me a $800 planet killer option alongside the base instead or I’ll end up just waiting till mid gen (or maybe never depending in what the competition brings).
McHuj
Member
But they’re not on a 7nm process. The key here is chip size and cost. I think we’re still very early for a large console chip to have a bus that wide on a brand new process.
High-end GPUs can afford that because they can be sold for lots of money and cut down chips can be salvaged for lower tier parts. Consoles don’t have that luxury.
joe_zazen
Member
How many posts in every forum could this be used for, lol.
Shin
Banned
Could be a 3 tier strategy also, low (PS4), mid (Pro), high (PS5).
In the end, game and price triumphs everything else, they could very well drag PS4 on until the end of time.
Nothing is stopping Sony from doing just that, a new console with BC now in play will be an interesting sale.
joe_zazen
Member
You also need to factor in portability now that mobile chips are producing ‘good enough’ horsepower to drive 3d games. I used to think Switch and ps/xb were separate markets, now I am not so sure. BotW is a better open world game than anything the other companies have offered this gen. The biggest shooter in the world is on Switch (and phones!). Diminishing returns might mean the end of home consoles.
The mass audience doesn’t care about quality beyond a certain point, as McDonalds, Beats, and Toyota have proven.
So, going forward, in a world with crossplay, and giant worldwide games on every device, portability cannot be discounted.
Chozofication_
Banned
We'll see. X1X already is 384 bit. Gddr6 is currently 10nm, they could use that and have enough room on the board so there's no technical limit here.
I think most people expect a minimum launch price of 500 dollars.
LordOfChaos
Member
I'm not sure how that proves this chip isn't for someone other than Sony or MS though, since the Subor uses a semicustom chip. Evidently AMD is now happy to cater to even niche players.
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ethomaz
Banned
That is false.
If bandwidth was an issue XB1 did had bad AF too.
The fact was that the PS4 SDK has bad AF implementation so devs needed to take more time to use it.
Any dev that toke a bit of time to learn how to use AF in PS4 either fixed it with a patch or their game didn’t have issue at all.
Most games with issues in AF were multplatfom using 3rd party Engine with generic AF implementation that didn’t work with PS4 SDK.
That is why newer games didn’t have AF issue anymore... devs get better, 3rd engine get better, PS4 SDK get better...
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Fake
Member
We just talking about rumors. Subor its just what 'IMO' everyone expected about removing the awfull jaguar for a Ryzen. I remember when PS4 launch AMD and Sony eng saying 'nothing outside is getting the same ps4 custom hardware'. So, because in China most of those consoles don't make such a sucess AMD is open to share 'some' of those custom pieces.
Again, its not about 'proving' something, just add rumor after rumor. Its fun, at least for me. I like seeing specs like those in Subor.
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THE:MILKMAN
Member
I found this: https://www.gamepur.com/news/18623-...ermanent-fix-discovered-sony-dmc-ps4-pre.html
So there was an issue in the SDK that was eventually fixed by the ICE team.
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DeepEnigma
Gold Member
Wrong link?
THE:MILKMAN
Member
Should be fixed now!
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
Well that explains why most of the games after that debate seem to have been fixed. Good find!
Chozofication_
Banned
Hell just recently Valkyria chronicles 4 has 0AF on ps4. It's still an issue. While the remaster of 1 was 60fps and had great AF.
I like MS´s approach how they force max AF on x1x for non native titles, would be great to have forced 16x AF across the board next gen. Except in cases where devs didn't want to use mipmaps at all.
I like MS´s approach how they force max AF on x1x for non native titles, would be great to have forced 16x AF across the board next gen. Except in cases where devs didn't want to use mipmaps at all.
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https://www.tweaktown.com/news/61764/tsmcs-stacked-wafer-tech-enable-easy-dual-gpu/index.html
https://www.pcgamesn.com/nvidia-amd-tsmc-3d-gpu
https://www.pcgamesn.com/nvidia-amd-tsmc-3d-gpu
The TSMC Technology Symposium is going on right now out in Santa Clara, and they’ve unveiled a new technology, called Wafer on Wafer (WoW) which allows them to connect chips together without mounting them laterally on the same interposer, or using the likes of AMD’s Infinity Fabric or Intel’s EMIB designs to allow them to communicate.
The new wafer-stacking tech means chips can be piled on top of each other, much like the way NAND flash memory is being stacked in the latest solid state drives. The individual wafers are directly connected using through-silicon vias (TSVs) and will not only allow many more cores to be contained in a single package, but also allow them to communicate incredibly quickly too.
There is also the potential that these WoW designs can be jammed onto an interposer with other silicon to create proper monster chips. Or even have more than two wafers stacked on top of each other. Skyscraper GPUs, please!
There are inevitable drawbacks to this sort of manufacturing, and most of that is down to the wafer yields TSMC are getting from different technologies. With two wafers stacked on top of each other, if one of the chips comes out broken the connected chip is therefore useless, which would make wafer-stacking too costly on low-yield products.
That means it’s more likely to be used on established production nodes with high manufacturing yields. That would cut down the wastage and still produce chips with far more power than their forebears. Again, this is how it works in SSD land too.
ntel have also filed patents for stacked CPU technologies to allow them to combine older manufacturing processes with newer ones to create more advanced chips.
Given the high yield of something like TSMC’s mature 16nm lithography it might not be beyond the realm of possibility for an old Pascal era chip to be 3D stacked, instantly doubling the core-count of the newborn GPU. Tasty. That would give multi-chip graphics cards a real boost, especially as they wouldn’t actually need to appear as multi-GPU to the system.
Okay, right now that’s a little far-fetched, and TSMC aren’t going to divulge any further details about the new WoW tech until they’re good and ready. But it does mean that TSMC, the biggest contract chip manufacturers in the world, will be able to offer their partners the capability to extend the lifetimes of their architectures on high-yield production nodes and deliver powerful silicon without struggling to stuff more cores into the same 2D space.
And that could be very exciting for future GPU refreshes. At the moment they’re little more than rebadges – think RX 480 to RX 580 – but if AMD had the option to stack two Polaris 10 chips on top of each other that would have been a genuinely exciting refresh.
Dontero
Banned
290X and those consoles are more or less from same time period. 290X released 1 month before PS4.
One of reasons why PS4 had issues was that CPU shared bandwidth with GPU.
Both console makers will want the fastest bandwidth they can get.
So HBM2 is clear choice here.
Interesting note here is that new consoles also should be a bit smaller if they choose HBM2.
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llien
Member
"Leaks" mention Navi 10 card, smaller than Polaris, using GDDR6 and performing at 2070-ish levels.
It's release has also been postponed from April-May, to late Summer this year.
We can basically rule out next gen Navi based consoles at this point.
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llien
Member
I'm not sure how "IO die" is supposed to function, but chip demoed by AMD at CES has "IO die" (14nm) that is 2 times the CPU chip (8 core, 7nm). Lisa Su mentioned that "more cores" can be slapped on (quite obviously one could get to 16 cores and end with power consumption at around today's I9, given what we have seen).
I would be very surprised if APUs do not follow that rand and have GPU and CPU as combined chip, instead of "chiplet" approach.
Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
From the rumore there were around Raja’s departure and even after (that Sony was strongly collaborating on Navi with AMD) and from the semi-custom work we have seen AMD do for MS and particularly Sony from the HW point of view, I am not sure why you would say that... unless you see those consoles taking features from a generation post Navi.
Their gaming desktop cards pipeline is important, but the two console contracts have lots of solid money in place and timelines that now are pretty solid (and were laid out several years ago). Even if AMD took MS and Sony’s help to push the R&D of features for Navi and future architectures and does additional work on top for each manufacturer to do specific customisations for each console, you can basically put 100+ Million chips in the bank between the two without counting on mod generation node shrinks and/or stop gap Pro upgrades. That is quite guaranteed compared to the historic volatility of their desktop market which I do hope picks up (and possibly these console deals help them to do so).
ANIMAL1975
Member
Where is Osiris? Whe need him/her here! The hype is dyeing and i need to kill time at work damn.
THE:MILKMAN
Member
Sadly it seems like Osiris' info was most likely fake.
Von Hugh
Member
Fake info, and I called him out on it. He seems to have vanished from GAF since.
ANIMAL1975
Member
... I don't mind! I'm in the hype train already and nothing can stop this baby xu xuuu
THE:MILKMAN
Member
I was giving him the benefit of doubt after my skepticism about his previous PS4K info but alas he bailed. Other stuff has been said elsewhere recently to solidify he might have been playing us all to a large extent.
ANIMAL1975
Member
THE:MILKMAN
Member
Well 18GB of GDDR
Shin
Banned
I believe that's HDMI 2.1, you read it wrong.
Also discrediting someone without providing any proof yourself that they are wrong is...yeah.
He was the first one to have mentioned that news will come out about E3/PSX or whatever and it did.
When he sent the info to the mod it had the CPU 8 Cores , clocked at 3.2Ghz & the GPU clocked at 1.121 Ghz this match up with the leak
https://www.neogaf.com/threads/possible-ps5-leak-info.1467805/page-7#post-253564893
this is not guess work
SonGoku
Member
sounds like a pos spec DOA
That's an unproven shitty rumor
gddr5 btw... yeah no
it would also allow for 24GB GDDR6
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THE:MILKMAN
Member
@ Shin and onQ
I'm not going to argue with you. I don't believe he knows stuff and you do. I'm fine with that and we'll all find out fairly soon what the truth is.
Osiris isn't banned and can come back to this thread anytime and 'put me in my place' if he so wishes.
I'm not going to argue with you. I don't believe he knows stuff and you do. I'm fine with that and we'll all find out fairly soon what the truth is.
Osiris isn't banned and can come back to this thread anytime and 'put me in my place' if he so wishes.
rəddəM
Member
I'm liking these specs.
18GB sounds good, specially if it's 14/12GB for games. 4GB should be enough for the OS no? Assuming it's the same as the PS4 (BC reasons)with new design and incremental upgrades for the SHARE capabilities. Perhaps 1080p 60fps with better/less compression streaming and recordings...
70/30% games/OS split of the specs would be fire.
18GB sounds good, specially if it's 14/12GB for games. 4GB should be enough for the OS no? Assuming it's the same as the PS4 (BC reasons)with new design and incremental upgrades for the SHARE capabilities. Perhaps 1080p 60fps with better/less compression streaming and recordings...
70/30% games/OS split of the specs would be fire.
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I'm not arguing I'm just saying that his info was too close for it to just be him making up stuff . the CPU & GPU clocks are dead on if the new specs are final.
Chozofication_
Banned
SonGoku
indeed. 24gb gddr6 384 bit bus would be really good.Increasingly I think we'll either get ggdr6 384 bit or hbm. And definitely more than 16gb. Maybe 16gb+ good ram + ddr for os.
I mean, by the time this comes out hbm will have been in graphics cards for a good while so it's more than possible for a 500 dollar console.
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Shin
Banned
Lots of memory chips are nice, more bandwidth, more memory for who the hell knows what.
But there's also a psychical limitation as to how many chips they can crop onto a PCB, keep in mind each chip draws 1.35v.
More chips is a higher power draw is more heath, is also less space is also pricier cooling solution, etc etc.
Look at Hynix, Micron/Elpida or Samsung and look at their product setup (Organization) for GDDR6 or even GDDR5, max is 512Mb (Samsung).
But there's also a psychical limitation as to how many chips they can crop onto a PCB, keep in mind each chip draws 1.35v.
More chips is a higher power draw is more heath, is also less space is also pricier cooling solution, etc etc.
Look at Hynix, Micron/Elpida or Samsung and look at their product setup (Organization) for GDDR6 or even GDDR5, max is 512Mb (Samsung).
Microsofts Hunert Smoke
Banned
Might want to put that drink down mate.
THE:MILKMAN
Member
Cool, but it is a bit much, IMO, to just declare the info likely real based on one spec (3.2Ghz) being spot on. You even asked him to clarify Navi 2.1 vs 1.121 and didn't get a reply.
Remember also that the latest Gonzalo info is also an interpretation/decode of the info and might be wrong and also not a the PS5 chip.
But this is all too serious....Imagine in 11 days we get a teaser video to "see the future"? That might get people talking and excited!
Yes I remember & I believe the 2.1 was a typo that he was posting off of memory or something because he sent the mod the 1.121Ghz specs in October before he even made that post.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
Yeah, lol.
Considering what gorgeous games we are currently getting out of a 1.84TF baseline PS4, I can only imagine more than 5 times that as a baseline with huge memory bandwidth and a massive CPU upgrade over the netbook one.
Chozofication_
Banned
One cool thing to consider with a massive bandwidth but not so extreme gpu is we could have insanely good particles, shadows and texture filtering. Ps2 was the weakest overall but with the highest bandwidth it did some cool stuff.