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"Power Levels Are Stupid"

O

Oblivion

Fetishing muscular manly men in skintight hosery
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uPwVuC3YOrc

Never heard of this PlagueOfGripes guy, but this is a pretty good video. He manages to cover most of the issues wrong with DBZ's/GT's/Super's concept of power levels. I do disagree with his conclusion that we should be glad that there's no logic to power levels anymore in Super because Dragonball's supposed to be a "silly" series. Fuck. That. Super is still trash.
 
Oblivion said:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uPwVuC3YOrc

Never heard of this PlagueOfGripes guy, but this is a pretty good video. He manages to cover most of the issues wrong with DBZ's/GT's/Super's concept of power levels. I do disagree with his conclusion that we should be glad that there's no logic to power levels anymore in Super because Dragonball's supposed to be a "silly" series. Fuck. That. Super is still trash.
Click to expand...

Super is great partially because the show said "power levels are bullshit", because now we get cool shit like Roshi gaming people in the Tournament of Power and Android 17 styling on people.

It's weird that people get so caught up with power levels in Dragonball, specifically. The entire idea of "power levels" was introduced into the series specifically for the sole purpose of showing that it was completely bullshit. That's why every member of the Frieza force lost their fucking shit when suddenly Gohan or Vegeta stopped hiding their energy and shattered every scouter in the vicinity.
 
Oblivion said:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uPwVuC3YOrc

Never heard of this PlagueOfGripes guy, but this is a pretty good video. He manages to cover most of the issues wrong with DBZ's/GT's/Super's concept of power levels. I do disagree with his conclusion that we should be glad that there's no logic to power levels anymore in Super because Dragonball's supposed to be a "silly" series. Fuck. That. Super anime is still trash.
Click to expand...

FTFY.

Manga is the way to go for that series. Irrefutable.
 
Sephzilla said:
Super is great partially because the show said "power levels are bullshit", because now we get cool shit like Roshi gaming people in the Tournament of Power and Android 17 styling on people.
Click to expand...

But....why would you want such things to begin with?
 
To be fair to Toriyama, when he introduced Power Levels in the Saiyan Arc they were actually subverted---one of the reasons the heroes could win was that the villains were so obsessed with numerical levels that they were taken by surprise when the Earthlings were shown to be capable of adjusting their levels through different means. "Don't underestimate us Earthlings!"

This also was a fairly big part of the Freeza Arc too. I think it's more the fandom itself to blame for taking them more at face value, and Toriyama (probably due to editors and corporations) ended up going along with it.
 
Oblivion said:
But....why would you want such things to begin with?
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Because otherwise DragonBall would be the Goku and Vegeta show. And, if the first two story arcs of DragonBall Super proved anything, that shit is boring as fuck. DragonBall is always way better when the rest of the supporting cast is relevant.
 
Sephzilla said:
Super is great partially because the show said "power levels are bullshit", because now we get cool shit like Roshi gaming people in the Tournament of Power and Android 17 styling on people.
Click to expand...

This actually isn't all that farfetched.

Sayians are a warrior race driven by evolution, 17 was manufactured to be stronger than Sayians, and came out of the pod significantly stronger than Goku's SSJ form. And with infinite stamina, no less.

Seeing as 18 can give birth, it makes sense that 17 could train himself to become stronger.

By the same logic, Frieza also makes sense, as long as you simply assume that he never trained a day in his life to become as powerful as he was.

None of the strongest DBZ villains actually trained to get stronger. Frieza was born at SSJ level, the androids were created higher than SSJ level, Cell absorbed the androids, Buu absorbed the Kais.



But the main problem isn't really power levels, but power SCALING in these series that continue going on way longer than they ever need to.

People always bitch about DBZ's power levels, but there isn't an Anime in existence with power creep worse than Naruto.
 
The only "power levels" I ever really went along with were One Piece's bounties, only because there's an inherent assumption that they may not be accurate. Luffy's bounty would only go up AFTER he did something big, and sometimes it wouldn't go up at all if the World Government didn't want to acknowledge he did something.

Oda went a bit off the rails once he introduced "gears" and "haki", but in general he plays it all fast and loose.
 
Actually using power level numbers in the show as they do in Z isn't great, but being consistent with how strong characters are is still important. Roshi should not be able to compete with characters who have god-like strength. It's too stupid to be cool.

That said Super is still awesome.
 
Oblivion said:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uPwVuC3YOrc

Never heard of this PlagueOfGripes guy, but this is a pretty good video. He manages to cover most of the issues wrong with DBZ's/GT's/Super's concept of power levels. I do disagree with his conclusion that we should be glad that there's no logic to power levels anymore in Super because Dragonball's supposed to be a "silly" series. Fuck. That. Super is still trash.
Click to expand...
Oh how I envy you.

Plague has a tendency to be insufferable when explaining his thoughts on things (as in, he frequently looks down his nose at any opinion that disagrees with his own, even among people who are supposedly his friends) but this is one of his better videos for sure.
 
Also DB Super turned Goku into post season 10 Homer Simpson, he lost all his character development, stripped of all personality, he was way more than "gonna fight this guy moah stronger screw the universe"
 
Sephzilla said:
Because otherwise DragonBall would be the Goku and Vegeta show. And, if the first two story arcs of DragonBall Super proved anything, that shit is boring as fuck. DragonBall is always way better when the rest of the supporting cast is relevant.
Click to expand...

I mean, I totally agree that the other characters should be more involved and have power levels closer to Goku and Vegeta, but you don't do that by having Krillin do crossfit for a few weeks.
 
Oh, I thought this would be a video of the type 'power levels are stupid, therefore people that obsess over them are stupid, because it's totally worthless to waste time on them as they are usually decided on the author's whim'.

But the fact this is a 40 minutes video makes me think HE is one of those that obsess about power levels.
 
Oblivion said:
I mean, I totally agree that the other characters should be more involved and have power levels closer to Goku and Vegeta, but you don't do that by having Krillin do crossfit for a few weeks.
Click to expand...

I'll accept it simply because if they wanted to build up Krillin and Roshi in a more "believable" way it would probably take way too long. Plus Dragonball and ridiculous quick power ups kind of go hand in hand. Goku went from losing 1 on 1 to Vegeta on Earth to defeating Frieza in like, a month at most.
 
It's really only DBZ that stuck religiously to the concept. Dragonball had it to a certain extent (where Goku had to really train to fight Mercenary Tao, King Piccolo, and Majunior), and Super seems to turn it on or off at need (like Frost being stronger than Piccolo despite the fact that, last time anybody really cared, Piccolo had gotten up to Super Saiyan 1.5 or so and should wipe the floor with the other universe's non-gold Frieza equivalent, or Future Trunks managing to keep up with Merged Zamasu where even Vegito had trouble).

I feel like the tournament of power could simply have had Zeno and the Grand Priest use an "equalizing" power to make everyone more or less on the same level, so that it became about smarts and special moves rather than raw power, and provide a more canon reason that Roshi (whose power level was supposed to be about 200) hang out with people off in Super Saiyan 2/3/Blue range.
 
Sephzilla said:
I'll accept it simply because if they wanted to build up Krillin and Roshi in a more "believable" way it would probably take way too long. Plus Dragonball and ridiculous quick power ups kind of go hand in hand. Goku went from losing 1 on 1 to Vegeta on Earth to defeating Frieza in like, a month at most.
Click to expand...

That was actually explained as being something inherent to Saiyans though.

Roshi being a 100+ years old and suddenly being stronger than Majin Buu makes zero sense; even with DB logic.
 
entremet said:
almost 40 minutes?! damn, guy. give me a crisp edited version.
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"Toriyama was always a bad writer."

I liked his, "Japan hates Tien" video better, but he's right in both videos.

The Omega Man said:
Also DB Super turned Goku into post season 10 Homer Simpson, he lost all his character development, stripped of all personality, he was way more than "gonna fight this guy moah stronger screw the universe"
Click to expand...

Mmm...was he though?
 
Servbot24 said:
Actually using power level numbers in the show as they do in Z isn't great, but being consistent with how strong characters are is still important. Roshi should not be able to compete with characters who have god-like strength. It's too stupid to be cool.
Click to expand...

Agreed, it also goes against themes of Dragonball like the new generation far surpassing the old generation.
 
Kusagari said:
That was actually explained as being something inherent to Saiyans though.

Roshi being a 100+ years old and suddenly being stronger than Majin Buu makes zero sense; even with DB logic.
Click to expand...

Piccolo went from sub-Nappa to fighting 2nd form Frieza in the same time span too, all because he absorbed some Namekian who got absolutely wrecked by a Frieza who wasn't even trying.

Also, the Tournament of Power does nothing to state that Roshi is suddenly stronger than Buu. It's more that he's seemingly always been training plus he's an extremely experienced fighter who outsmarts people rather than overpowers them.
 
Sephzilla said:
Piccolo went from sub-Nappa to fighting 2nd form Frieza in the same time span too, all because he absorbed some Namekian who got absolutely wrecked by a Frieza who wasn't even trying.
Click to expand...

I mean that still introduced the fusion mechanic, which they built upon later on.
 
I mean, DBZ was inherently fucked to begin with when it introduced that shit, ain't nothing new to me anyways.

Naturally, Super doesn't bug me either, nor would I ever let it.
 
"Power levels" to me were boring.

There were a few cool energy beams, but most of this "raising power level" stuff was boring to sit through. Watching characters stand still like unmovable mountains.
giphy.gif


versus actual acrobatic fights...
5520d326c23347acd06810fc065222a8.gif

tumblr_mrqr0wgXZi1r8tyjfo1_500.gif
Click to expand...
 
You can tell who hasn't watched the show because they are claiming Roshi having focus is somehow offensive because that totally means he's fighting Majin Buy level opponents with ease...
 
Garlador said:
"Power levels" to me were boring.

There were a few cool energy beams, but most of this "raising power level" stuff was boring to sit through. Watching characters stand still like unmovable mountains.
https://media.giphy.com/media/ZiZj9nTpaRl2o/giphy.gif

versus actual acrobatic fights...
Click to expand...

This is why, to me, this moment was basically peak DragonBall for me

zoCHGas.gif


The original Goku vs Vegeta fight feels like basically the pinnacle of old DragonBall, it's a well animated fight that ends with some cool spectacle
 
Kusagari said:
That was actually explained as being something inherent to Saiyans though.
Click to expand...

If Zenkais were always that effective the series would have pretty much be over after the Freeza saga. But somehow it was a one-time deal. DB has been inconsistent in power levels ever since they have been introduced

Kusagari said:
Roshi being a 100+ years old and suddenly being stronger than Majin Buu makes zero sense; even with DB logic.
Click to expand...

Which was stated nowhere, stop spreading false facts
 
Fj0823 said:
You can tell who hasn't watch the show because they are claiming Roshi having focus is somehow offensive because that totally means he's fighting Majin Buy level opponents with ease...
Click to expand...

Yup, but don't you dare try and stop their narrative
 
Plague's close with the Super Best Friends and does a lot of animations for them. He's been on the podcast a couple of times.
 
Oblivion said:
I mean, I totally agree that the other characters should be more involved and have power levels closer to Goku and Vegeta, but you don't do that by having Krillin do crossfit for a few weeks.
Click to expand...

There's nothing they really could have done to get Krillin's power level up in a believable fashion. That's just how fucked the powerscaling was in Z. The saiyans in Z left everyone else in the dust so badly, that it became extremely hard to accept the rest of the Z-Fighters as relevant fighters in any capacity. I think what they are doing in Super is the lesser evil. I'd much rather have a more well-rounded cast of fighters through any means necessary lol.

I was really able to get over any powerscaling inconsistencies it after seeing Roshi in-action at the ToP. Just wish Tien would have got the same treatment. Sigh . . .
 
The Omega Man said:
Also DB Super turned Goku into post season 10 Homer Simpson, he lost all his character development, stripped of all personality, he was way more than "gonna fight this guy moah stronger screw the universe"
Click to expand...

This has always been Goku though....

Through the vast majority of DBZ Goku has either been dead, sick, or traveling to a fight, he honestly hasn't had any character development.

Goku was always a bit of a fighting-obsessed troll...his DBSuper incarnation just seems to have Goku being self-aware of his trolling, instead of all of it being oblivious
 
Linkark07 said:
But... wasn't he always like that?
Click to expand...
Sephzilla said:
Goku has always been stupid and a bit reckless.
Click to expand...

Wrong, He wasn't stupid in the original DB, he was naive which is different, everything in the world was pretty much new to him being raised by his "grand father", him becoming stronger wasn't his goal but the meaning to achieve something, usually to help others accomplish something.
What you have now is a derping man with not personality at all, a selfish bot programmed to fight just cause without thinking of the consequences.
 
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