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[Skilletor]

Nobody is gonna quit SFV as long as the money and tournament support is there.

IJ2 currently has tournament support and money. More money in it than the CPT this year, I believe.

Where are all the players?

But mostly, I'm just commenting on what I said initially that got made DR2K say I was "pushing a narrative" or whatever. If people really ARE quitting Capcom fighters, if they are both complaining about SF5 and also supporting other scenes, then why don't tournament numbers show this?

 

[ElBoxyBrown]

i believe injustice has just as much as SF.

NRS pay more than SF if not same. Yet their games are dead in a month.

I guess those tournaments barely get any views. People don't want to quit on SF. It's easy to quit on Injustice cuz NRS will put out a new game in 2 years.

 

[lovely ladies]

It's weird how people now pretend they want a story mode in a fighting game. I mean, I don't mind them, but it's the equivalent of going to the cinema just to watch the awful MK and SF movies, except here, it's way more expensive.



That argument fails when Injustice 2 has the same amount of money ($600K) in their tournament circuit - yet it's nowhere near as popular.

I should have added that I did enjoy MK9's story mode immensely and it was definitely worth the price of admission. Maybe that set the bar too high for future games for me at least. I do like the function (no joke intended) it serves though of letting people try out characters that they normally wouldn't touch.

 

[Dark Ninja]

Nobody is gonna quit SFV as long as the money and tournament support is there.

There is/has been more money in other games at many points. People keep playing SFV rather than jump to Killer Instinct, Injustice, Marvel, Tekken, Pokken, KOF, Guilty Gear, Smash Brothers.

 

[BronsonLee]

Story modes sell fighting games the same way campaigns sell first person shooters

 

[Vice]

Not as much as Street Fighter.

MKX.and I2'S have and have had prize packages as big as Street Fighters have had.

I know that's what I'm saying. It's like if you want to watch a bad movie you can go to the cinema and spend way less. Injustice 2 has sales numbers? Don't think so yet.

I2 was the best selling game of May.
MKX sold 5 million copies.

 

[ElBoxyBrown]

Story modes sell fighting games the same way campaigns sell first person shooters

Well, you first have to show that your story mode has potential to be good.

 

[IntelliHeath]

It was only character stories and survival. Even if you want to count that Ryu and Ken training thing, you could only play it once. =/

Trials didn't come out till the March update with Alex.

Ah. That's right. I forget that missions as added much later on. My bad.

 

[Vice]

Well, you first have to show that your story mode has potential to be good.

They do, MKX is so far the best selling traditional fighting game of the generation. 5 million+ copies.

https://www.gamespot.com/articles/batman-arkham-knight-mortal-kombat-x-sell-5-millio/1100-6431342/

 

[Dahbomb]

The purpose of a "story mode" is less as a way to tell a story (otherwise the GG non interactive story mode would be fine but it's not fine at all) and more of a way to get player's feet wet through a structured experience.

Like you get introduced to the characters and the mechanics in a non threatening environment but you are still forced to somewhat apply yourself to move the story along. You get the general feel of the game.

That's the point of story campaigns in strategy games too. You get introduced to units in structured environments/levels.


But that's the main issue of story modes in fighting games... they don't really introduce mechanics and features piece wise like normal game campaigns. They literally are just AI fights with full featuresets on both side.

I have always been an advocate of fighting games introducing players to more piecemeal type mechanics that build up to your complete character in the last few missions.


Like if I were to design a fighting game story mode, I would make it so that you are just a humble beginner learning how to fight for the first time and you would take control of someone like the Ryu.

Your first training would be just using normals and all of your specials/supers are disabled. Your opponent also has specials/supers disabled so it's a fair fight.

Then after some time you fight an opponent who is stronger than you with better normals. Now you introduce the Fireball to Ryu's arsenal but only the fireball. So now in addition to your normals, you have another longer ranged option to deal with people using longer ranged normals.

Then you start having Ai battles where they jump at you and then you get introduced to the Shoryuken. The AI jumps a lot in these fights so you get more practice in using SRKs as anti air in a realtime setting.

And so forth.


No single player campaign starts you off with all the tools from the get go, they make you build up to it. In an action game, you start off with few moves and then you learn new moves. In shooter games, you start off with a basic pistol/rifle and then get more weapons abilities later on. This is something that fighting games still haven't grasped yet which results in the story mode feeling like a bunch of hamstrung AI battles.

 

[ElBoxyBrown]

They do, MKX is so far the best selling traditional fighting game of the generation. 5 million+ copies.

https://www.gamespot.com/articles/batman-arkham-knight-mortal-kombat-x-sell-5-millio/1100-6431342/

But Bronson believes just slapping a story mode onto a fighting game is enough to get sales. You gotta put in work. You have to treat it like it's a AAA cinematic experience with at least average writing.

 

[MrCarter]

I guess those tournaments barely get any views. People don't want to quit on SF. It's easy to quit on Injustice cuz NRS will put out a new game in 2 years.

That goalpost moved fast.

 

[Doctrine Dark]

NRS games always sold well. The shitty MK Vs DC sold over 2 million. All of the pre MK9 games sold millions , too. Those games will sell regardless. The fact that NRS packs their games with content is a great thing.

I just wish Capcom stopped giving people reason to want to hate their games. Sometimes I wonder if that's even possible nowadays. Everyone just seems so jaded.

 

[IntelliHeath]

NRS games always sold well. The shitty MK Vs DC sold over 2 million. All of the pre MK9 games sold millions , too. Those games will sell regardless. The fact that NRS packs their games with content is a great thing.

Same for Smash franchise.

 

[ElBoxyBrown]

That goalpost moved fast.

Did I say you were wrong?

 

[Forward]

There is/has been more money in other games at many points. People keep playing SFV rather than jump to Killer Instinct, Injustice, Marvel, Tekken, Pokken, KOF, Guilty Gear, Smash Brothers.

It is a matter of balancing the money and effort. A little less money, but a lot less effort to get to pro level in a different style of fg goes a long way as far staying mired in a bad iteration goes.

 

[Son Of Sparda]

This thread is the embodiment of a fan base living in its own bubble. Thinking and saying things that essentially amount to:

People are lying that they are buying other fighting games, otherwise the number of tournament entries or online matches would been higher.

Just shows how little you know of people (outside of FGC) that buy fighting games to play them casually. This might come as a shock to some of you, but millions, literally millions of people that buy these fighting games don't give a damn about going to tournaments. A lot of them barley even go online, or drop online play a week or two after the launch. Casual players that aren't interested in getting better or playing the fighting games professionally, just wanna have a game to play offline for few hours a week or have some fun with their friends. That's it. And games like InJ2 provide them with enough content to keep them happy for a long time.

So no, people aren't lying when they say that they'll buy InJ2 or Tekken 7. They are buying those game as it is evident by the commercial success of said titles. It's just that a very very big portion of those players don't think about stuff that you guys think are the heart and soul of fighting games. (like tournaments or high level play)

Now, I know some of you love to say that those guys don't matter, and continued support from FGC (through buying DLC and stuff) is much more important than millions of people buying your game close to launch, but I bet Capcom disagrees with you when they look at those InJ/MK/Tekken numbers.

 

[Skilletor]

Now, I know some of you love to say that those guys don't matter, and continued support from FGC (through buying DLC and stuff) is much more important than millions of people buying your game close to launch, but I bet Capcom disagrees with you when they look at those InJ/MK/Tekken numbers.

Have a link to those IJ2/Tekken numbers?

I'm interested in seeing how well they're doing.

I mean, I agree with everything you said (and prefaced my own posts with those who are talking about the competitive communities, not the players who don't care about playing online), but I wonder how well they're selling in comparison to MKX.

 

[Son Of Sparda]

Have a link to those IJ2/Tekken numbers?

I'm interested in seeing how well they're doing.

I mean, I agree with everything you said (and prefaced my own posts with those who are talking about the competitive communities, not the players who don't care about playing online), but I wonder how well they're selling in comparison to MKX.

I don't think we have hard numbers yet, but both games topped the UK charts after their release (last fighting game to do that was MKX) and InJ2 even managed to be the number one at NPD.

So they are both doing really well.

Edit: For comparison SFV debuted at #7 in NPD.

 

[MrCarter]

Now, I know some of you love to say that those guys don't matter, and continued support from FGC (through buying DLC and stuff) is much more important than millions of people buying your game close to launch, but I bet Capcom disagrees with you when they look at those InJ/MK/Tekken numbers.

SFV was always meant to be a "service" game so they are in it for the long run rather than release games every couple years like NRS. They also make a lot on DLC, sponsors and the tournament circuit. Also, I'm not sure why people are still taking about Injustice/Tekken sales when we don't have the actual numbers yet.

 

[JayEH]

This thread is the embodiment of a fan base living in its own bubble. Thinking and saying things that essentially amount to:

Injustice and Tekken are big franchises I expect them to sell well. I think what everyone was getting at was everyone saying that GG/BB/KOF would rise because of SFV's failing

 

[Son Of Sparda]

SFV was always meant to be a "service" game so they are in it for the long run rather than release games every couple years like NRS. They also make a lot on DLC, sponsors and the tournament circuit. Also, I'm not sure why people are still taking about Injustice/Tekken sales when we don't have the actual numbers yet.

They wanted SFV to be success up front. It was part of their plans to sell two million copies within 2 months, but 17 months later, they are still 400k short of reaching that goal. They want MvC:I to do 2 millions as well. We'll see how will this game fare next year. But the point is that even as service games, Capcom wants these games to have strong sells up front.

As for numbers. InJ2 did close to a million in it's first 3 weeks. And that's just counting NPD, which only covers NA. As for Tekken 7, you don't top charts by selling mediocre/bad.

 

[Primethius]

I don't think we have hard numbers yet, but both games topped the UK charts after their release (last fighting game to do that was MKX) and InJ2 even managed to be the number one at NPD.

So they are both doing really well.

Edit: For comparison SFV debuted at #7 in NPD. Not only that but the PS4 version of Naruto Ninja Storm 4 alone managed to sell more than SFV in that month.

Just a correction, the latter ended up being wrong (the edit).

 

[DR2K]

If people were quitting SF5/Capcom games to play other games, wouldn't the numbers for tournaments reflect that, not "pretty much stay the same"?

Tekken saw a huge surge in entrants. Biggest 3D fighter at Evo ever. So... would that put that theory in the coffin or nah?

 

[ElBoxyBrown]

Tekken saw a huge surge in entrants. Biggest 3D fighter at Evo ever. So... would that put that theory in the coffin or nah?

It could be EVO numbers going back to normal. Tekken 7 is the only game that got a boost and it's basically sitting with the rest of the other fighting games.

 

[Bronetta]

I wouldnt be surprised if this game sells less than SFV.

 

[Son Of Sparda]

Injustice and Tekken are big franchises I expect them to sell well. I think what everyone was getting at was everyone saying that GG/BB/KOF would rise because of SFV's failing

I don't know who said that, but yeah I agree that they were probably wrong. As a pretty casual fighting player myself I've been barley exposed to any of those games so I don't know how people thought SFV doing bad would mean that more players will go pick those games up.

But I saw other comparisons to InJ2 and T7 in the few last pages and I wanted to point out that people did buy those games. It's just that casuals don't necessarily play fighting games the way FGC expects them to. But that doesn't mean that people are lying about buying other fighters that aren't from Capcom.

Just a correction, the latter ended up being wrong (the edit).

I see. Thank you for the correction. I edited my post.

 

[Skilletor]

Tekken saw a huge surge in entrants. Biggest 3D fighter at Evo ever. So... would that put that theory in the coffin or nah?

You're the one with the theory, meign.

I'd say Tekken saw a huge surge in entrants because it's awesome, people have wanted to play it for a long time, and it finally saw a release on console. I don't think it has much to do with SF5 or Capcom.

But just to recap - you're the one that said:

You do know that you can play another game and bitch about how terrible Capcoms games are? Believe it or not, people are voting with their wallets and playing other fighters. The numbers are there in sales charts and tournament entry numbers. Whatever litmus you want to use.

That's anecdotal. People are also playing and buying other games. Tournament numbers for SFV are dropping consistently to drastically while others games are more or less stable or expanding. Not to mention sales of other fighters following that trend.

And that you were using:

Evos registration numbers. SFV saw a huge drop and every other new fighter either got a boost or stayed around the same.

You got the theory, you were proven wrong using the sample you said you were going by. The only game that saw huge growth was Tekken. Unless you're now saying that everybody is quitting SF5 and going only to Tekken. /shrug

But really, all I said was:

I really hope all these people saying they're going to play dbz do so. Getting old having the only way to organize matches in ASW games be through nuIRC.

I know casuals will pick it up and play through whatever single player stuff there is. Just hope people that like vs. put their time where their mouth is.

Because ASW games, so far, aren't very populous online. I hope DBZ changes that.