SniperHunter
Banned
I need more details on point # 2. Who called the police and why?
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Precursor Games Bought Art Assets From Silicon Knights, Nintendo "wished them luck".
- Thread starter Mama Robotnik
- Start date
I need more details on point # 2. Who called the police and why?
Yeah, no. What was shown of SotE looks very promising. I want this project to be seen through completion.
ShadowgeistX
Member
Come on dude, didn't you do the SK research thread? Of course you'd have it pretty much right lol.
I'm more interested in the fact that Dyack's not in charge of this. He'll probably manage to get his filth in there and ruin something about the game though. Still, I loved ED and I'll probably keep following this project.
I really wish Nintendo was more proactive when it comes to Western developers and hardcore games. But the GCN times are over and with Iwata's focus on established franchises and cheap sequels, a new ED game seems to be out of reach. The game simply does not fit with Iwata's philosophy of making games; it's well known that he was an "enemy" of Too Human and rather put the team on a MGS remake.
A ex-employee made the company who was a programmer and director at Silicon Knights. Who then later hired Denis Dyack into a creative only rule who presumably also lost his job at SK.
Maybe do some research. Dyack is not handling anything business related at precursor game. His job is to make a game.
ArchedThunder
Banned
That's because the 9 minutes of gameplay was what they had done for Eternal Darkness 2
I think Precursor's CEO said that Dyack wasn't part of the team from the beginning. So it's very well possible that they've bought the assets at a time when Dyack was formally not yet a member of Precursor Games.
And I honestly don't see anything shady about this. Not sure why people see a problem with it. Silicon Knights is dead, everyone knew it as soon as their fee was decided. There's no way they could have made another game, so their creditors should be happy about every dollar they can get through asset sales.
... And these sales won't attribute to much, considering that they've had to destroy everything that was made with their "own" in-house engine.
The footage we've seen was made in CryEngine 3, what they've done internally at SK was based on their UE3 knock-off. They are re-using designs and the concept, but the footage we've seen is new and created by Precursor.
Wait, what? Where can I learn more about that?
EDIT: Oh, okay, there's a link now. Thanks!
Q
qizah
Unconfirmed Member
I don't blame Nintendo for not publishing it. I wouldn't want to pour money into a project with a team who are known for saying this thing will be a series with x number of games and having only one released.
Also the rumours about the way they handled funding from Activision doesn't give me confident in giving them money for their game, sorry to say.
Also the rumours about the way they handled funding from Activision doesn't give me confident in giving them money for their game, sorry to say.
Brilliant lol.
Why do you blame SK for a decision taken by Microsoft?
Mama Robotnik
Member
There are some really helpful posts here about companies as legal entities - its not an area I'm familiar with so I appreciate the insight, thanks.
Yes but I still stare with disbelief at every development! Silicon Knights has been a rollercoaster of drama. I wonder if other studios are anywhere near this eventful?
I'd love to know why Denis had to make it explicitly clear that he wasn't running the business side of things.
Yes but I still stare with disbelief at every development! Silicon Knights has been a rollercoaster of drama. I wonder if other studios are anywhere near this eventful?
I'd love to know why Denis had to make it explicitly clear that he wasn't running the business side of things.
Bony Manifesto
Member
Do you know what kind of rules must be followed for this type of thing? Is there some sort of law against transferring assets away from your old company without being paid the market rate for them? I know doing such a thing in the UK would be considered fraud, but I don't know how things work in Canada.
Mama Robotnik
Member
Do you have any more on this? You're very well connected and I find the politics fascinating.
Maybe already stated, but why wouldn't Nintendo take some interest in this project and wish Precursor "good luck"? It's a project that many fans have been vocal about even though I don't think Eternal Darkness sold particularly well. Nintendo more or less gets what they want without paying for it. Also, given that it is slated for a PC release, Nintendo probably doesn't want Precursor using the Eternal Darkness name. If, and this is a BIG if, it does well, Nintendo could release a direct Eternal Darkness sequel. Nintendo has nothing to lose and everything to gain in this situation.
ArchedThunder
Banned
Engine does not = game. They simply ported everything over to a new engine.
Reports kind of contradict that. And no matter what, the team came up with what we saw, and it looks and feels like ED. They are the best group to helm this project IMO.
Throwing money when someone shows you a project is not a good decision either. Maybe they aren't pleased by the quality of what's done or how the project is managed to invest some pennies in SotE, like how they made a huge spring cleaning at Retro Studios when they bought it, and at this moment, Arakawa and co. were still there.
ArchedThunder
Banned
We've seen the enemies shown and what did the reports say they had done for ED2? A church sequence. What did they show? A church sequence.
Also I wouldn't say the team came up with that, there are only 8 employees at Precursor games, I believe around 4 in managing roles and don't work directly on the game. Silicon Knights most likely came up with everything we saw, all they did at Precursor was port it over to the CryEngine.
I agree with this, and yet they could potentially fund it just enough to see it lift off if the crowdsourcing campaign doesnt fully take off. I dont think 1 million is too much to see this game happen. On the other hand, thats the whole sum they paid to own retro studios (before they heavily invested in it) so I dont know...
MadOdorMachine
No additional functions
Well, it definitely looks like he made his bed then. Good luck I guess? I was never really a fan of any of their games, so I'm not too bothered either way. The only game I've played that they worked on is the Metal Gear game which I enjoyed. I thought Too Human sounded promising at the time as well. I do hope Eternal Darkness fans get the game they want though. I would be really pissed if there was a game I wanted that had a chance to come out and was cancelled.
TwEE-N-Toast
Banned
Bony Manifesto
Member
The same way they ported Too Human from UE3 to their new engine?
Was he an enemy of the game, or an enemy of it's bloated, convoluted, inefficient decade long Dev cycle? I agree Iwata is more risk adverse than most, but Too Human was a mess even back in 2003.
We don´t know for sure who specifically designed those. The person for all we know may be working at precursor. And as for the church, the design seems to be from a historically accurate layout, which incidentally was also on ED. Furthermore, reports indicate this demo shown is leaps and bounds ahead of the prototype SK was developing.
Not true, according to former SK peeps on Twitter.
Mama Robotnik
Member
Link please?
StreetsAhead
Member
Yeah, I don't know Canadian law, but a corporation is effectively (in the eyes of the law) its own person and the employees are generally not on the hook personally for the company's legal debts. Provided that Precursor did actually pay real money (even if it was just $1) for the assets then they're fine as long as Dyack doesn't hold a legal position within the new company (because then it'd been seen as unfair abuse of power or position), but he doesn't (or, so it seems).
Hypothetically, Activision would have to sue Silicon Knights to get any money back, and if the court found that the ED2 assets were 'stolen goods' under the argument that they used money given to them for Z-Men to create them and then they could claim those assets back from Precursor.
However, as SK is bankrupt (right?) and already owes Epic so much money, Activision's motivation to bring an actual law suit to Silicon Knights is next to nil, because they would never be able to claim and it'd be a legal fee sinkhole.
Hypothetically, Activision would have to sue Silicon Knights to get any money back, and if the court found that the ED2 assets were 'stolen goods' under the argument that they used money given to them for Z-Men to create them and then they could claim those assets back from Precursor.
However, as SK is bankrupt (right?) and already owes Epic so much money, Activision's motivation to bring an actual law suit to Silicon Knights is next to nil, because they would never be able to claim and it'd be a legal fee sinkhole.
I don't know what the law in Canada is either, nor have I followed the case to know if bankruptcy has been filed for or declared already (has it?). In Belgium at least, if I remember my classes correctly, transactions during bankruptcy proceedings practically cannot go through without court approval. And transactions up to several months before the bankruptcy filing can be re-examined for fraudulent behavior. Selling assets below market value would definitely qualify for that.
iunderstoodthatreference.exe
@mama robotnik
Sorry that I cannot quote you but the mobile NeoGAF site is causing some trouble
A few years back, someone with ties to SK said on NeoGAF that NCL was not willing to fund Too Human. Dyack and NCL obviously had visions that were not fitting together. One company wanting to make cinematic, story driven games, the other cancelling all hardcore titles and focusing on lifestyle products and family games. The low tech direction of the Wii didn't help much either.
I will try to find those posts tomorrow. Too troublesome on my phone...
Sorry that I cannot quote you but the mobile NeoGAF site is causing some trouble
A few years back, someone with ties to SK said on NeoGAF that NCL was not willing to fund Too Human. Dyack and NCL obviously had visions that were not fitting together. One company wanting to make cinematic, story driven games, the other cancelling all hardcore titles and focusing on lifestyle products and family games. The low tech direction of the Wii didn't help much either.
I will try to find those posts tomorrow. Too troublesome on my phone...
Iorv3th
Member
If that's the case they never mentioned that at e3. I was there and played the game and talked to the developers that were showing the game off at their booth. They really talked the game up and acted like it was amazing (even in that state). Even though the demo kiosks where messing up right in front of them. You know if they would have at least lowered their egos and said, yeah this game still has a way to go we are working on these problems etc etc. But from what I remember they came off as very arrogant about the game in its current condition.
Yes. in the states LLCs are used to keep the people not accountable but only the company. You see it all the time. Cupcake gods LLC goes bankrupt to avoid creditors. One month later Cupcake Demons LLC or whatever opens up and its business as usual. Sounds like they wanted to keep making the game but not pay Epic, and in the states it's legal.
https://twitter.com/ConnorConlon
Bunch of former SK-ers I used to follow were talking about the teaser trailer when it hit. Scroll like five tweets down to see the conversation.
"Its a different studio... But those assets, the camera shots, that is stuff I remember."
"This is way further along then what I saw before I was laid off"
TwEE-N-Toast
Banned
All their hardcore titles? I can't even picture what a Nintendo Hardcore game would be.
ArchedThunder
Banned
That doesn't change the fact that a bunch of people were working on the game at SK, and now only a small hand-full are, plus the layout of the church doesn't matter, my point was that is what they had done at SK. Were did you hear that this was leaps and bounds ahead of what they had? Even if it is they could have easily just polished what they had in the months since they were established.
ArchedThunder
Banned
Wasn't it in development on the Gamecube for a while?
Mama Robotnik
Member
Thanks Shiggy. I had a look myself, didn't find them, but I did find this:
I'd love to know if this is true!
They are saying Nintendo is cool with it. Given they haven't recieved a C&D it would seem they are actually cool with it, or at the very least indifferent and willing to let them do what they want.
SniperHunter
Banned
thnx
Games like Project Hammer, Sphear, and so on were all canned when games like Wii Sports took off. Funnily, NST never recovered from that move and has focused on smaller handheld titles since then. If you would ask me, I also expect Retro to work on a family title rather than something hardcore-oriented like Metroid Prime or their old Sheik pitch.
Why? It's true Nintendo hasn't had the best run of luck with Hardcore titles, but with Bayo 2 and Retro's own comments about working on a project that people wanted them to and how long it's been in development and that they have been in crunch for over a year doesn't seem like something that adds up to a Casual/Family focused title.
Not with major resources behind, I believe. They were busy with ED and MGS during the GCN lifetime but did some tests and engine work before ED was released.
