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[JunkerWoland]

The upcoming issue of Famitsu features an interview with Takaki and reveals he is leaving Marvelous, after being with the company for around 13 years.

Famitsu's post announcing the interview: https://www.famitsu.com/news/201903/27173600.html (copy & paste URL)

Further information is starting to spread online, some of which originated from the following blog: http://ryokutya2089.com/archives/18755.

A few noteworthy items from the blog post:
- Takaki is still acting as Producer for Senran Kagura.
- He and his staff will continue to work on Senran Kagura 7, but content adjustments to the title will be handled by Marvelous.
- The new regulations regarding erotic content are the reason he's leaving (it comes across like the concerns and oversight of such content has increased).
- He's currently involved with a home console title at Cygames.

At the moment, it's unclear, whether Takaki is merely acting as Producer through the completion of Senran Kagura 7 or will continue to oversee the series at Marvelous in some advisory role. There's also word he's still working with Marvelous on an anime & game cross-media project that started around a year ago.

Once people get their hands on the new issue of Famitsu (or when the interview is posted on their site), I'm sure we'll see further clarity on the situation, but either way, I'm not feeling overly optimistic on the future of Senran Kagura. Hopefully, Takaki will have some interesting things to reveal in the coming months, about his new projects.

 

[GrayFoxRJ]

Thanks Sony! You bunch of bastards

 

[brap]

- The new regulations regarding erotic content are the reason he's leaving (it comes across like the concerns and oversight of such content has increased).

Is that because of Sony or is Marvelous doing their own censorship thing too?

 

[JordanN]

Sony California claims another victim.
If only the PC market was bigger in Japan, they could escape the clutches of the censor demons.

Oddly, the PC market has been viable for other Asian countries (i.e South Korea, China) maybe it's time Japan answers the call too.

 

[JunkerWoland]

Is that because of Sony or is Marvelous doing their own censorship thing too?

There's nothing that specific in the blog post and likely isn't mentioned in the full interview, either. The comment as written in the blog post is just that erotic/sexual content is now being inspected/investigated more thoroughly.

 

[Petrae]

Sony’s aggressive censorship started the ball rolling, so it’s fair to lay at least part of the blame at the market leader’s feet. Not that the Neo Puritans at Sony in California will care. If anything, their mission is succeeding.

 

[The Pleasure]

Sony California claims another victim.
If only the PC market was bigger in Japan, they could escape the clutches of the censor demons.

Oddly, the PC market has been viable for other Asian countries (i.e South Korea, China) maybe it's time Japan answers the call too.

Japan fucking hates the Chinese. They rather commit Nippon Ichi Sudoku than make games for them.

 

[//DEVIL//]

Fuck Sony and their censor shit. They are sending us back to the ice age.

I am not supporting them fucklets anymore.

This shit needs to stop and these fucking companies need to start losing money so they understand that they should do what gamers and developers want. Not what some fat bastard in office think.

 

[JordanN]

Japan fucking hates the Chinese. They rather commit Nippon Ichi Sudoku than make games for them.

I meant make more PC games in general. Not that it specifically has to be aimed at China (although I disagree about the comment about never releasing games there. Nintendo and Sony do have markets there, albeit very small ones).

 

[CatCouch]

I can't say I know everything that is going on here but I can certainly understand leaving if you're prevented from working on what you love. I wish him luck!

Sony is obviously succeeding, I just wish it didn't involve damaging game developers I love and preventing me from buying their games.

Even outside the censorship I don't see Sony showing much in the way of Japanese game support. Switch, XBox and PC are perfectly fine platforms that don't seem to be as hostile so I'm betting we'll see more games published on those platforms.

My personal feelings on the matter (you've been warned, lol!): I became an artist to draw fantasy. To draw sexy things. To draw colorful things. I didn't become an artist to draw violent things which is where the western game industry thrives. Funny enough, most sites wouldn't let me post Mortal Kombat level violent art but sexy has always been fine and has a large market. It's weird how the industry that inspired me to be an artist has so thoroughly turned it's back on that very same art. It's like sexy art and games are incompatible now. Depressing.

I think I'm going to drop Sony, not purely out of protest but because they just don't appeal to me. I don't feel good about spending time on the platform and that really matters.

Japanese games and Sony were a big part of why I am an artist. It's sad they have moved away from what I loved about them but all things change. I'll stick with Nintendo for the time being, they are getting a lot of my money these days. Maybe Sony will turn around next gen.

Edit: Here's a Gematsu article on it!
https://gematsu.com/2019/03/kenichi...-remains-producer-of-the-senran-kagura-series

 

[Raph64]

 

[Raph64]

The Gematsu article has been updated, with the first tidbits on what led more exactly Takaki to leave Marvelous.

First tidbits have come in from Weekly Famitsu. According to the magazine, Takaki’s biggest reasons for leaving Marvelous were restrictions on the depiction of sexual content. He felt that a thread had snapped within him. He said that while sexual content is often criticized, there are many that enjoy it. Takaki believed that such variation was one of the things that supported the games industry, but when it was so easily broken, it made him think about various things. Takaki welcomes restrictions and regulations that protect specific scopes and genres. However, he feels the recent trend will definitely have a chilling effect.

Takaki wants to make a traditional fantasy-esque game like the games he went crazy for as a kid. He is now at Cygames working on console title(s).

Takaki will properly finish up work on his currently in-production titles. Senran Kagura 7EVEN, however, will take some time. While the base of the game will not change, Takaki is working on parts that must be changed. After that, either he or someone else will complete and deliver it to the fans. They are taking their erotic gags more seriously than ever before. Takaki will cooperate with existing staff on Senran Kagura, while leaving the adjustments to Marvelous internally and continuing his existence as the “huge boobs producer.”

Takaki is also working on a new multimedia project published by Marvelous that involves both a game and anime. Character design is by Hanaharu Naruko and the anime is directed by Hiraku Kaneko. It is unrelated to the Senran Kagura series. There will be beautiful girls, but unlike Takaki’s previous games, they will remain clothed. It will be an orthodox-style and fervorous game. Development started about a year and a half ago. An image in Weekly Famitsu shows a girl riding something that looks like a motorcycle.

According to Takaki, he wants to show something that will make people say, “He made something amazing even though he’s the oppai producer, what sass!”

“Even if my place of work or the nature of my titles change, what I show won’t change and I don’t want it to,” Takaki said. “I’m a game fan at heart; I tell dirty jokes and make irresponsible comments (laughs), but I’ll work my hardest to make games.”

 

[h3ad0rZ]

I love SK and these kinda news really hurt. Takaki was always such a fun guy, making those stupid-fun videos about tits science or some such, but already, in the some latest interview he seemed very let down and kinda sad, so I guess he already knew he was gonna do this at that point. This is just not right.
Japanese games were the primary reasons I went for ps3/ps4 instead of something else. Now, I'm glad I've overhauled my PC (I'm actually surprised how many JP games come out on steam now, should've supported them earlier, but hindsight 20/20) and now can kiss goodbye to Sony.

 

[mcz117chief]

Another victim of censorship, awesome...

 

[McCheese]

Its a sad day for anime titty fans. But respect to this guy for refusing to make watered down games.

what really rustles my jimmies is the same folks wanting this stuff censored, are completely fine with the new mortal combat games completely obscene violence.

Even with the new samurai shodown they are already complaining they put one of the characters in a skirt, instead of her traditional armour.

Hate it, and I hate how publishers think this very vocal minority is worth pandering to.

 

[DeliciousDoc]

Newer Japanese pc games are not region blocked very often anymore so I can see the market going to PC. Too early to tell what will happen but the wheels are in motion. The only publisher who isn't moving their entire catalogue is sega and smaller visual novel makers.

 

[//DEVIL//]

I assume Sony is ran over by donkeys then.

Don't insult the monkeys. They are higher class than this shit

 

[Shin]

Is that because of Sony or is Marvelous doing their own censorship thing too?

https://www.dualshockers.com/senran-kagura-burst-renewal-ps4-censored/
Reading point 2 "content adjustment" immediately made me think it was Sony, as the creator it's also understandable that he might feel that they are limiting his creativity/freedom.
So moving away from Marvelous makes more than sense, because they would you force yourself and pretend you're happy when you can't do what you used to.
At least that's my take on this move and not surprised to say the least.

There should be more to the whole censorship thing though since DoA: Xtreme Venus Vacation was slightly altered, not to mention DoA6 and what's not.
If it isn't a new Japanese law that came into effect then Sony's grasp is too far and wide, which would come back to consumers putting them in such a position and accepting it as is.

 

[Clear]

They asked for the ridiculous "Intimacy mode" to be removed, which is old news and not exactly surprising given its pretty much the exact scenario that got Omega Labyrinth Z in trouble earlier in the year.

Guess Steam is your goto for titty-fondling mini-games these days, if that's what floats yer boat.

 

[Enygger_Tzu]

Yes, as some speculated he left Marvelous because of Sony's censorship policies.

“The big reason is the recent censoring of sexual presentations.

“My inside feels like having a string cut off.

“While sexual things may be criticized, there are also many people who do enjoy [those expressions]. I believed that such variation could be one of the [pillars] to support the gaming industry, but it ended up getting crushed easily like this… it became a cue for me to think about various things.

“I’d welcome regulations and restrictions to protect specific genres and scopes. But I feel like the recent course of events made it seem like they’re totally intent to crush it.”

 

[Dunki]

“I’d welcome regulations and restrictions to protect specific genres and scopes. But I feel like the recent course of events made it seem like they’re totally intent to crush it.”

And this is the biggest problem here with Sony....

Someone there wants these games to be gone

 

[Sqorin Hammerfarf]

Guess Steam is your goto for titty-fondling mini-games these days, if that's what floats yer boat.

It does. You got a problem with that?

I'm not about to let another thread about Hometown and Life become about shaming people who like these games. This man makes good games. Like actually good games. Way better than they have any right to be. Sony did him dirty, and Marvelous didn't have his back. Senran Kagura was a good series that had every right to be on store shelves alongside anything else. Now, either the series is dead or it will continue as a shadow of its former self. This censorship thing has a body count now. The game industry is becoming less diverse, less interesting, and with less value as a result.

 

[DunDunDunpachi]

Flattest timeline.

 

[Orenji Neko]

Unfortunate to hear as I really enjoy the Senran Kagura games (I own every single one of them that has released on Steam). This guy always came across as hilarious to me, and really enjoying what he does, so it sucks to hear he's down like this.

To me this just reaffirms that there is a larger problem in play: that we are being regressed after coming so far, and that the wrong kinds of people are moving into the industry and fucking with things, seemingly trying to drag stuff into directions it doesn't need to be going. It's insane to think that there are people in the US branch of Sony who have the ability to finagle with games being created in Japan; it just sounds so incredibly wrong....what the hell right do they have to force their values on another market? This isn't just them screwing with the game when it's being localized, this is them screwing with a game before it even releases in it's country of origin.

This is some Twilight Zone shit right here, like the people who used to "sanitize" games in the 90s, or pass over releasing them abroad completely, have gotten control and are screwing with things directly at the source, leading to a nonsensical regression.

It does. You got a problem with that?

I'm not about to let another thread about Hometown and Life become about shaming people who like these games. This man makes good games. Like actually good games. Way better than they have any right to be. Sony did him dirty, and Marvelous didn't have his back. Senran Kagura was a good series that had every right to be on store shelves alongside anything else. Now, either the series is dead or it will continue as a shadow of its former self. This censorship thing has a body count now. The game industry is becoming less diverse, less interesting, and with less value as a result.

100% agree. I love these games and didn't think I would until I played one and it almost instantly became one of my favorite game series. I personally just find them incredibly fun and oftentimes just downright hilarious. I'd hate for something to happen to them to where it wasn't the same, or they stopped being made.

 

[spandexmonkey]

"We're not trying to take away your games"

I remember them saying back in the dark days of this forum.

 

[Sqorin Hammerfarf]

"We're not trying to take away your games"

I remember them saying back in the dark days of this forum.

Nobody bought it then either. The problem is, during the dark days of this forum, speaking out against it was enough to get you labeled as a GamerGater and banned for harassing women. We're finally getting our voice back, little by little, but real damage is being done in the meantime.

I'm really curious what ResetEra is saying about this, but I try not to feed my hatred of humanity before I've had my morning coffee...

Edit: Had my coffee, went to ResetEra. Was surprised that the thread wasn't the amazing shitshow that they are known for. It seems like a large number of users support Takaki and are saddened by this news. Around the third page, it starts dipping into the shitshow but somehow pulls out of it. It takes until the end of the fourth page before anyone gets called a pedophile. Maybe ResetEra is on the verge of turning over a new leaf with their... never mind. I read a second thread there and a my hatred of humanity was never in any danger.

 

[petran79]

Japan fucking hates the Chinese. They rather commit Nippon Ichi Sudoku than make games for them.

Times have changed...

https://variety.com/2018/gaming/asia/china-woes-shares-japan-games-developers-1202905775/

The shares of Japan’s leading video games firms dropped Wednesday in what was seen as a reaction to the woes of the games sector in China.

Shares of Nexon dropped 5.86% to JPY1,318 at the close of business on the Tokyo Stock Exchange. Capcom was down 2.7% at JPY2,558. Konami tumbled 4.17% to JPY4,710, and Nintendo fell 2.95% to JPY34,850. They compare with an overall slip of just 0.68% for Japan’s Nikkei 225 index.

The slumps followed the halt in sales Monday of Capcom fantasy “Monster Hunter: World” by Tencent subsidiary WeGame, on the orders of Chinese regulators. Tencent said it would reimburse the roughly 1 million players who had paid $43 apiece for the game.

 

[Aranea]

Sad by the news but big respect for Takaki for leaving because he cannot longer do what he loves. Hopefully this whole censorship thing stop as we somehow regressed back to the 90s after we though we were done with that type of crap.

 

[Frizzie]

I'm gutted about this

It has given me alot to think about in regards to my future gaming choices. I don't really know what else to say

 

[kingbean]

It does. You got a problem with that?

I'm not about to let another thread about Hometown and Life become about shaming people who like these games. This man makes good games. Like actually good games. Way better than they have any right to be. Sony did him dirty, and Marvelous didn't have his back. Senran Kagura was a good series that had every right to be on store shelves alongside anything else. Now, either the series is dead or it will continue as a shadow of its former self. This censorship thing has a body count now. The game industry is becoming less diverse, less interesting, and with less value as a result.

Senran Kagura games have been the best "musou" games in years.

 

[Sqorin Hammerfarf]

Senran Kagura games have been the best "musou" games in years.

As someone who has all the Musou games, and is a card carrying member of the Square-Square-Triangle-Repeat club, you are wrong. The Senran Kagura games are good, better than some of the lesser Musou games (like Berserk, Arslan), but they basically boil down to fight a few hundred mooks, then fight the boss. Most Musou games have giant maps with multiple objectives to conquer and defend, mixed with different challenges and objectives to be working on at any one time. Even Musou All-Stars was better than the Senran Kagura games - but the Senran Kagura games are certainly one of the best of the Musou clones. They are competent fighters, fun to play, and are particularly noteworthy for the high quality writing and characterization (something Koei's Musou games could use help with).

 

[kingbean]

The only Musou games that I think are more fun are the Warriors Orochi series.

Different strokes.

 

[Clear]

It does. You got a problem with that?

Nope, no problem here at all. Enjoy!

You have to admit though, it does fly in the face of the current socio-political climate, and really I know my comment might have sounded fllippant, but there's no way to dignify that content.

It literally is titty-fondling for laughs, which doesn't bother me in the slightest, but you can't really defend it on any grounds of artistic merit. Kinda worth it to enrage the blue hair-dye brigade I suppose!

 

[Shifty]

Flattest timeline.

 

[kingbean]

Nope, no problem here at all. Enjoy!

You have to admit though, it does fly in the face of the current socio-political climate, and really I know my comment might have sounded fllippant, but there's no way to dignify that content.

It literally is titty-fondling for laughs, which doesn't bother me in the slightest, but you can't really defend it on any grounds of artistic merit. Kinda worth it to enrage the blue hair-dye brigade I suppose!

No one is trying to dignify it are they? It's just a video game, pure escapism through and through.

There doesn't seem to be any campaigns to vilify pop music anymore, what with it's sexy messages and such.

This whole cry out against video games is just a repeat of prudish, self-important know-it-alls just like any other attack on media that isn't wholesome or all inclusive.

Maybe I'm just hopeful that one day people will stop trying to take away other peoples toys.

 

[Sqorin Hammerfarf]

You have to admit though, it does fly in the face of the current socio-political climate, and really I know my comment might have sounded fllippant, but there's no way to dignify that content.

Is dignity the value by which we decide what games are and are not acceptable? Because if it is, then shouldn't we also be banning Conker's Bad Fur Day? The Despicable Me games have a fart gun. Nobody was complaining about Boogerman.

It literally is titty-fondling for laughs, which doesn't bother me in the slightest, but you can't really defend it on any grounds of artistic merit. Kinda worth it to enrage the blue hair-dye brigade I suppose!

I absolutely can defend it on artistic merit, and will if I have to (after all, art history is full of nudity and perversion - full of it), but the challenge against this sort of content has never been that it isn't artistic. That path leads to begging questions that people don't want to see answered (what is the artistic merit of Call of Duty? Should we ban it as well?)

I think it is rather telling that the main complaint against these games is to call people who like them pedophiles, then sit back in smug satisfaction while they attempt to explain why they aren't. That's not judgment of the game. That's a judgment of the players. And by trying to associate these games with creepy people, it makes it easier to get support for banning them. After all, who wants to be associated with pedophiles? It really feeds into the social media need to lord your moral superiority over others, and for some people, that's more important than anything else. They can't wait to get in front of a large group of people and be seen condemning pedophiles (or white supremacists *cough*Tim Schafer*cough*)

 

[Dunki]

Nope, no problem here at all. Enjoy!

You have to admit though, it does fly in the face of the current socio-political climate, and really I know my comment might have sounded fllippant, but there's no way to dignify that content.

It literally is titty-fondling for laughs, which doesn't bother me in the slightest, but you can't really defend it on any grounds of artistic merit. Kinda worth it to enrage the blue hair-dye brigade I suppose!

Everything done by a human being is art. No matter what. I does not mean it is high cultural rich art but it is still art. And every thinnk has its merrits you might not want to play it I do neiher but they still should exist for people playing these games. There is clearly a market for these kind of games and the fact that someone at Sony goes apeshit crazy right now with Censorship is not a good thing.

 

[spandexmonkey]

I don't want to dog pile on Clear, but to any point of whether this is acceptable content:

That's for me as an adult to decide. Mortal Kombat's violence has exceeded what I'm willing to tolerate, but I'm not in their threads or on Twitter advocating against it. To each their own.

 

[JunkerWoland]

Now that some of the information is beginning to solidify, I do wonder if Senran Kagura 7 won't ultimately become vaporware.

Takaki is heading a cross-media project with Marvelous that's been in production for a year and a half, and he's involved with something at Cygames. Senran Kagura 7 was announced just over two years ago and all that's been released to the public are a few static images purporting to be an updated 3D model for Asuka. Alongside Takaki's recent comments concerning the game's elements needing to be reconsidered and revised and that completion will take time, if we get to the end of the year with reveals of this new cross-media project and no substantial updates on SK7, I won't be surprised to find the game has been quietly shuffled off the mortal coil.

 

[Sqorin Hammerfarf]

... if we get to the end of the year with reveals of this new cross-media project and no substantial updates on SK7, I won't be surprised to find the game has been quietly shuffled off the mortal coil.

Which would explain why he is leaving Marvelous.

 

[Clear]

This whole cry out against video games is just a repeat of prudish, self-important know-it-alls just like any other attack on media that isn't wholesome or all inclusive

Inclusivity has nothing to do with it, its just a smokescreen for people seeking to inflict their world-view on everyone else.

I've seen this all before, the only thing that changes are the targets and the fraudulent higher moral purpose thats used to justify it.

I absolutely can defend it on artistic merit, and will if I have to (after all, art history is full of nudity and perversion - full of it), but the challenge against this sort of content has never been that it isn't artistic. That path leads to begging questions that people don't want to see answered (what is the artistic merit of Call of Duty? Should we ban it as well?)

You can't, I'm sorry. It is what it is.

In an ideal world you shouldn't and wouldn't need to justify it. But that's not the reality.

The way things work in the real world is that artistic merit is traditionally invoked as a shield for pushing the envelope. Its an argument for necessity of expression, because without it you really are defending on the same level as porn, i.e. a pure freedom-of-speech and expression argument that's hard to win especially against those espousing a moral imperative for suppression.

Its unfair and quite dishonest, but its how this game is played. If you want to push-back against censorship you need to pick your battles carefully, because its always about more than a single work or style.

What Sony is doing is basically what all major film distributors did in the 80's following the clampdown led by the religious right. They started pre-cutting in order to head off future controversy and censorship issues. They aren't acting based on morality, its got a purely commercial motive in that they just don't want to deal with the potential blowback.

And that threat of blowback will only disappear after the general cultural furore has subsided, and particularly when other titles have started creeping through without issue.

Which is why smuggling stuff through under the guise of artistic merit is important, and why those are the battles that really need to be fought and won.

 

[KoolAidPitcher]

Remember when it was the religious right who wanted to censor and take away your games? Now it is the religious left, under the dogma of intersectionality.

We cannot allow these zealots, left or right to censor and suppress speech. A reminder that whenever speech is censored, it does not only restrict one's ability to speak but also one's ability to listen (or in this case, play).

The Senran Kagura games have had a dedicated fanbase, and were successful in the free market. Let the free market decide what content is and is not in games.

 

[petran79]

What Sony is doing is basically what all major film distributors did in the 80's following the clampdown led by the religious right. They started pre-cutting in order to head off future controversy and censorship issues. They aren't acting based on morality, its got a purely commercial motive in that they just don't want to deal with the potential blowback.

Sengan Kagura is harmless compared to this:

Reminds me that in the 70s the porn movie Deep Throat. But back then it was about morality at least.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2005/jun/11/film.filmnews

Deep Throat and its stars were championed by an unlikely alliance of groups. Pro-pornography campaigners claimed it heralded a brave new world of sexual liberation. And for one short year it did - the most fashionable people in New York lined up outside cinemas showing the film to proclaim their sophisticated permissiveness.

When the FBI tried to close it down, Hollywood A-listers such as Warren Beatty, Shirley MacLaine and Jack Nicholson rallied to the film's support by very publicly seeing it again. And again. They went on to host benefits for Reems' legal defence fund.

When Lovelace, formerly Linda Boreman and later Linda Marchiano, alleged in 1980 that she had been forced to make the movie at gunpoint, by her husband/manager Chuck Traynor, she was in turn championed by anti-pornography feminists, led by Andrea Dworkin and Gloria Steinem, who held her up as a classic victim.

https://www.theguardian.com/film/2009/jun/22/fbi-investigation-deep-throat-porn-film

The FBI worked desperately to block the landmark 1972 porn film Deep Throat in a vain attempt to curb the spread of permissive thinking in the US, according to newly-released files.
Agents from Honolulu to Miami seized copies of the film, arranged for negatives to be analysed in laboratories and interviewed actors, producers and even messengers who ferried reels to cinemas.

The huge success of Deep Throat, which disputed sources say may have made up to $600m (£364m) for its mob backers, is seen by many as a defining moment in the cultural and sexual revolution, though others label it a cheap and nasty exercise in exploitation.

"Today we can't imagine authorities at any level of government – local, state or federal – being involved in obscenity prosecutions of this kind," Mark Weiner, a constitutional law professor and legal historian at Rutgers-Newark School of Law, told the Associated Press, which campaigned to have the files released under the US freedom of information act.

"The story of Deep Throat is the story of the last gasp of the forces lined up against the cultural and sexual revolution and it is the advent of the entry of pornography into the mainstream," said Weiner.

It emerges that the FBI backed obscenity trials and attempted to halt screenings for years after the film debuted in cinemas, but ultimately failed to halt the rise of more open-minded thinking in the US.
"Certainly today, with our broadly socially less restrictive attitude to most pornography and to sex it may seem odd that the government was spending so much effort on something like this," Eugene Volokh, a law professor at UCLA, told AP. "But attitudes back then were much different."

 

[Sqorin Hammerfarf]

You can't, I'm sorry. It is what it is.

I can, and apparently, I will have to. Shall we start with Last Tango in Paris? Maybe 120 Days In Sodom? The Decameron? The Canterbury Tales? The Dream of the Fisherman's Wife? The Garden of Earthly Delights? Art is filled with perversion, far worse than any sins against decency the relatively mild Senran Kagura games commit.

The Marquis de Sade has provided literally centuries of criticism, debate, and discussion that clarify his novels as some of the most important French works ever written. Nobody at the time saw this potential, and he was imprisoned for perversion. I mean, he was, but I think it is fairly obvious that perversion and art are hardly exclusive.

Heck, let's start easy. Forget the Marquis de Sade. Why don't you explain to me how Senran Kagura differs from Benny Hill, and why it deserves to be censored while Benny Hill is a national treasure?

The way things work in the real world is that artistic merit is traditionally invoked as a shield for pushing the envelope. Its an argument for necessity of expression, because without it you really are defending on the same level as porn, i.e. a pure freedom-of-speech and expression argument that's hard to win especially against those espousing a moral imperative for suppression.

Just so we are on the same page here, have you actually played a Senran Kagura game? Because it seems you think these games are far worse than they actually are. They are surprisingly lacking in vulgarity or explicitness, and instead are quite playful and innocent.

Its unfair and quite dishonest, but its how this game is played. If you want to push-back against censorship you need to pick your battles carefully, because its always about more than a single work or style.

I pick ALL the battles. There are no half measures in freedom or in the protecting of one's rights.

What Sony is doing is basically what all major film distributors did in the 80's following the clampdown led by the religious right. They started pre-cutting in order to head off future controversy and censorship issues. They aren't acting based on morality, its got a purely commercial motive in that they just don't want to deal with the potential blowback.

These decisions are deliberately and intentionally having a negative commercial effect on the games they are being forced on, and as it goes on, increasingly damaging Sony's reputation and potential audience for the PS5 (at least as far as Japan is concerned). If this is commercially motivated, then Sony must be the dumbest mother fuckers on the planet.

Which is why smuggling stuff through under the guise of artistic merit is important, and why those are the battles that really need to be fought and won.

The debate on artistic merit is not something I'm interesting in. I think it has been repeatedly show that the works we think have artistic merit (like Crash) are quickly forgotten, while the trash that is easily dismissed ends up defining generations (Star Wars, The Lord of the Rings). Given enough time, the trash becomes treasure (Wizard of Oz), while the forgotten remain so.

We are wrong about this stuff so often, and so completely, that we fundamentally must allow all voices because we can't predict which ones will sustain us later.

 

[kingbean]

I can, and apparently, I will have to. Shall we start with Last Tango in Paris? Maybe 120 Days In Sodom? The Decameron? The Canterbury Tales? The Dream of the Fisherman's Wife? The Garden of Earthly Delights? Art is filled with perversion, far worse than any sins against decency the relatively mild Senran Kagura games commit.

The Marquis de Sade has provided literally centuries of criticism, debate, and discussion that clarify his novels as some of the most important French works ever written. Nobody at the time saw this potential, and he was imprisoned for perversion. I mean, he was, but I think it is fairly obvious that perversion and art are hardly exclusive.

Heck, let's start easy. Forget the Marquis de Sade. Why don't you explain to me how Senran Kagura differs from Benny Hill, and why it deserves to be censored while Benny Hill is a national treasure?

More recently the book Naked Lunch by Burroughs. It's extremely vulgar and revered.

 

[Nickolaidas]

I wonder how Hideo Kojima (a man known for similar content) is going to respond to this. Will his games 'mature' or will he give Sony the inevitable finger?

And what about Vanillaware? Could those regulations be the reason Aegis 13th Sentinel was in the dark for so long? Would Sony allow today a game with the artistic style of Dragon's Crown?

 

[Clear]

I can, and apparently, I will have to. Shall we start with Last Tango in Paris? Maybe 120 Days In Sodom? The Decameron? The Canterbury Tales? The Dream of the Fisherman's Wife? The Garden of Earthly Delights? Art is filled with perversion, far worse than any sins against decency the relatively mild Senran Kagura games commit.

The Marquis de Sade has provided literally centuries of criticism, debate, and discussion that clarify his novels as some of the most important French works ever written. Nobody at the time saw this potential, and he was imprisoned for perversion. I mean, he was, but I think it is fairly obvious that perversion and art are hardly exclusive.

Heck, let's start easy. Forget the Marquis de Sade. Why don't you explain to me how Senran Kagura differs from Benny Hill, and why it deserves to be censored while Benny Hill is a national treasure?

Just so we are on the same page here, have you actually played a Senran Kagura game? Because it seems you think these games are far worse than they actually are. They are surprisingly lacking in vulgarity or explicitness, and instead are quite playful and innocent.

I pick ALL the battles. There are no half measures in freedom or in the protecting of one's rights.

These decisions are deliberately and intentionally having a negative commercial effect on the games they are being forced on, and as it goes on, increasingly damaging Sony's reputation and potential audience for the PS5 (at least as far as Japan is concerned). If this is commercially motivated, then Sony must be the dumbest mother fuckers on the planet.


The debate on artistic merit is not something I'm interesting in. I think it has been repeatedly show that the works we think have artistic merit (like Crash) are quickly forgotten, while the trash that is easily dismissed ends up defining generations (Star Wars, The Lord of the Rings). Given enough time, the trash becomes treasure (Wizard of Oz), while the forgotten remain so.

We are wrong about this stuff so often, and so completely, that we fundamentally must allow all voices because we can't predict which ones will sustain us later.

Damn, you are so way off base with this.

1. Pier Paolo Pasolini had serious artistic credibility well before his 70's Trilogy of Life, and Salo, whilst a deliberate provocation was an explicitly political work intended to instil revolutionary marxist fervor to what he saw as apathetic Italian youth.

2. De Sade wrote his shit whilst incarcerated in the Bastille (for poisoning prostitutes).

3. Benny Hill was DESTROYED by political correctness is the 80's. He was effectively kicked off TV in the UK in spite of great ratings and his work buried in the decades since. If you want a poster child for an artist sacrificed at the altar of PC thought, he's the one.

I don't need to play the games, all I need to do is google intimacy mode and watch it to my heart's content on Youtube. This is all the agents of oppression need to justify themselves also.

Seriously, you need to educate yourself on this subject. Start with Seduction Of The Innocent and the suppression of EC comics, and work your way forwards through to the present. Its not about merit, its about perception and politics and changing times.

 

[Lionel Richie]

You'll have to take my anime tiddies from my cold dead hands Sony!

 

[The Mad Draklor]

It's pretty pathetic that corporations can't just mind their own business (pun not intended). The Senran Kagura series and other games similar to it have been around for quite a while on multiple platforms. No one really complained about it except for a fringe extreme minority.

 

[Sqorin Hammerfarf]

1. Pier Paolo Pasolini had serious artistic credibility well before his 70's Trilogy of Life, and Salo, whilst a deliberate provocation was an explicitly political work intended to instil revolutionary marxist fervor to what he saw as apathetic Italian youth.

I was talking about the actual Decameron, Canterbury Tales, and 120 Days of Sodom - I had no idea that the same movie director tackled all three! He must have very interesting tastes. I've even seen Salo, though I admit I wasn't a fan.

2. De Sade wrote his shit whilst incarcerated in the Bastille (for poisoning prostitutes).

He was thrown in prison multiple times. He wrote Justine while imprisoned for mistreating prostitutes, but was later thrown in prison again for being the writer of Justine (the being imprisoned for perversion part of my post). The juxtaposition of being imprisoned (without trial) for writing these books which have become controversial works of art for centuries underlines my point about how art history is filled with perversion, and that we can't always predict which trash will end up as treasure.

Will Senran Kagura end up as treasure? It might. Especially if this censorship continues for a few years. Senran Kagura could be the last and greatest of the fan service video games, remembered for being sacrificed to political correctness at a time when contemporary views on the subject were at their most controlling. I mean, nobody remember 2 Live Crew for the quality of their work, and Senran Kagura is better than that stuff.

3. Benny Hill was DESTROYED by political correctness is the 80's. He was effectively kicked off TV in the UK in spite of great ratings and his work buried in the decades since. If you want a poster child for an artist sacrificed at the altar of PC thought, he's the one.

I know. That was the point I was going to lead to eventually. It would've been a nice pivot, but you saw through it. Most importantly, his work from the 70s (when Hill's Angels were at their most sexy) is still remembered and respected today - even when it wasn't as appreciated at the time. The Yakkity Sax chase sequence is a god damn treasure of comedy and I see it come up today, even among people who are way too young to know who Benny Hill was.

I don't need to play the games, all I need to do is google intimacy mode and watch it to my heart's content on Youtube. This is all the agents of oppression need to justify themselves also.

Not sure this really counts as an effective defense. I'd rather my agents of oppression didn't go around complaining about The Resident of Evil Creek.

Seriously, you need to educate yourself on this subject. Start with Seduction Of The Innocent and the suppression of EC comics, and work your way forwards through to the present. Its not about merit, its about perception and politics and changing times.

EC Comics was very much in trouble at the times, and led to the creation of the Comics Code, but at the same time, EC Comics has become a timeless and respected part of comic book history. It is the censors who were ultimately proven wrong, and EC Comics created something that was every bit the art that they said it wasn't. Sometimes, you just have to draw on your inner Dee Snyder and fight for the artistic freedom of artists everywhere. We're not gonna take it anymore.

 

[Chozofication_]

Don't get me wrong I couldn't care less about these games but its making me think twice about buying another sony console that's for sure. Lets make like bugs bunny and saw California off the country.

I'm really curious as to what will happen with catherine full body though...