Enter The 36 Chambers
Member
Nah. Chao garden was gimmicky trash shoe horned into a sonic game. It served no purpose whatsoever.
Fuck the Chao garden
-
Hey Guest. Check out your NeoGAF Wrapped 2025 results here!
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
ProJared - Sonic Adventure 2: This is what people want from 3D sonics?
- Thread starter KojiKnight
- Start date
Fuck the Chao garden
Nah. Chao garden was gimmicky trash shoe horned into a sonic game. It served no purpose whatsoever.
Fuck the Chao garden
Someone couldn't figure out how to get a Nights Chao.
Stormblessed
Member
The video was fair. This was my first exposure to this channel, and I'm disappointed he has less of these longer videos up.
I think there's a generation for whom the Adventure games are Sonic. More people grew up with these games than we sometimes realise, and that comes with a certain (often lasting) affection.
I honestly never thought SA2 was well liked before this. When playing it back in the day I remember thinking that it wasn't as bad as the first game, but that it was still largely a boring, boring game.
I think there's a generation for whom the Adventure games are Sonic. More people grew up with these games than we sometimes realise, and that comes with a certain (often lasting) affection.
Winterfang
Banned
Nah. Chao garden was gimmicky trash shoe horned into a sonic game. It served no purpose whatsoever.
Fuck the Chao garden
BOO THIS MAN!! BOO!!
It's alright. He's literally the only person in the world with this opinion. We will get our mobile Chao garden yet.BOO THIS MAN!! BOO!!
Enter The 36 Chambers
Member
Nope. I spent around 15 minutes feeding those stupid things not knowing what I was actually doing. Then I tried to kill them and that didn't work so I never went to the garden again.Someone couldn't figure out how to get a Nights Chao.
Sonic has enough problems without forcing some bootleg fucking tamogatchi bullshit into the games.
Such a random terrible idea.
Nope. I spent around 15 minutes feeding those stupid things not knowing what I was actually doing. Then I tried to kill them and that didn't work so I never went to the garden again.
Sonic has enough problems without forcing some bootleg fucking tamogatchi bullshit into the games.
Such a random terrible idea.
Well, don't you sound qualified to discuss their merits!
And you failed at killing them too? What exactly isn't beyond you?
Lastly, you got it all wrong... they forced Sonic into the Chao's game. They're pretty much the only universally liked aspect of either Adventure game. The games probably would have been better by discarding everything else, lol.
I honestly never thought SA2 was well liked before this. When playing it back in the day I remember thinking that it wasn't as bad as the first game, but that it was still largely a boring, boring game.
I thought it was almost universally hated. I was nearly certain that the "Sonic Cycle" started at Sonic Adventure 2 at the latest.
thatmariolover
Member
BOO THIS MAN!! BOO!!
I agree, the Chao Garden was the best part of the game (sadly).
What do I want from a 3D Sonic?
I think ultimately I'd like to see more straight line racing with occasional platforming bits. It might be nice to do a Metroidvania type Sonic game where different abilities were unlocked to enhance the platforming experience (double jump, ability to launch Sonic at specific obstacles).
More classically themed platforming levels (hills, forest, ocean, under ground, sky, casino, etc. Maybe shake things up with escape the volcano, etc).
No garbage voice acting. Just stop trying to make Sonic a saturday morning cartoon aimed at seven year olds.
Other than that, not sure.
I thought it was almost universally hated. I was nearly certain that the "Sonic Cycle" started at Sonic Adventure 2 at the latest.
No way man... Sonic Heroes is definitely the first legitimate contender for a Sonic cycle. Both Sonic Adventures were seriously flawed, but neither were getting called on their faults properly for quite a while... it's only in hindsight that they're considered poor/mediocre. SA2 has a 89 metacritic rating, and that was considered the weaker of the two on release... they both reviewed significantly better than any Sonic games since... including Colors and Generations. Now, the re-releases with updated scores... that's a different matter entirely, lol.
Just stop trying to make Sonic a saturday morning cartoon aimed at seven year olds.
Unless of course they're gonna make it a Saturday morning cartoon aimed at seven year olds... because that was the only decent thing that came out of the Sonic Boom project.
The real question is, was Sonic ever good?
I liked the original games as a kid, but going back to them more recently it's really not great.
Man, i have been feeling this for the longest, but terrified to say. I really don't think the original Sonics were THAT good. The lava/pyramid level, the water levels? Man they def had their flaws
KojiKnight
Member
I think there's a generation for whom the Adventure games are Sonic. More people grew up with these games than we sometimes realise, and that comes with a certain (often lasting) affection.
This is a really good point to make... People who grew up with a Dreamcast are going to be in their late teens and early 20's at this point... That's a scary thought.
KojiKnight
Member
I think Projared was totally on point about this game, except I still enjoyed the Knuckles and Rouge levels in spite of themselves.
It's the music. Those levels have the best music aside from the first sonic level.
Pretty spot-on video that depicts what most of people feel about SA2, though I'd say this: Sonic Adventure 2 still has the best 3D Sonic gameplay in quite a few ways. Granted - it wasn't perfect, but it did work for the most part.
Sonic and Shadow levels (i.e. everyone's favorite part in the game*) were a neat twist in that they implored you to not only go fast, but to also try to attain the best score possible through tricks and attacking enemies and stuff, which made SA2 by far the most arcade-like of all the 3D Sonics - with a great sense of speed -, and it was helped by the fact that most of the stages were short enough to easily be replayed, with multiple missions to each no less. Just improve the camera/controls, split action button actions across the other buttons (no Bounce Attack when you want to light-dash) and make rail switching a little bit better**.
Knuckles and Rouge stages were ALL about exploring and charting the fastest route, since even though the Master Emerald shards seemed random, there was a select set of areas they could be at any given time, which made getting A ranks pretty interesting as you had to essentially learn the stage and how everything works to get it consistent. I enjoy all of Knuckle's stages in SA2 except for Aquatic Mine (seriously, f*** that stage), and Rouge's stages except for Mad Space. And heck, playing Knuckles' stages is pretty much single-handedly justified by his absolutely hilarious soundtrack. My only complain with them is that the radar only reacts to one shard at a time (unlike in Sonic Adventure), artificially extending those levels and resulting in nothing but padding. I still wonder what the hell was Sonic Team smoking when they came up with such a *brilliant* idea.
Tails and Eggman stages are honestly flawed, but still okay, fun to play. The only problem I have with those is that they reduced the mobility of the mech from what E-102 Gamma had in Sonic Adventure and didn't really have stages to accommodate mech gameplay very well. Otherwise, they made quite a bit of sense in that they too had speed dependent on momentum and thus rewarded learning the ropes of each stage and how to approach each segment appropriately for the sake of acquiring points. Oh, and Eggman's Theme is SA2 is the GOAT.
*Outside of Chao Garden, which pretty much everyone agrees was a great side-addition. I liked seeing the different looks my Chaos could have - whenever I wanted a Dark Chao, I would just play Sonic and throw that Chao at the wall for a LOOOONG time. Haha!
Sonic Adventure 2 is far from perfect, but in my opinion it's probably the most complete package out of all the 3D Sonic games in terms of depth and variety. I'm pissed that we never got another game that played/controled like Sonic and Shadow in SA2, and I've never been quite a fan of Unleashed's daytime gameplay style. :<
Oh, and please keep the the story coherent and internally consistent (or better yet, just remove it). Cutscenes in SA2 were completely all over the place.
Sonic and Shadow levels (i.e. everyone's favorite part in the game*) were a neat twist in that they implored you to not only go fast, but to also try to attain the best score possible through tricks and attacking enemies and stuff, which made SA2 by far the most arcade-like of all the 3D Sonics - with a great sense of speed -, and it was helped by the fact that most of the stages were short enough to easily be replayed, with multiple missions to each no less. Just improve the camera/controls, split action button actions across the other buttons (no Bounce Attack when you want to light-dash) and make rail switching a little bit better**.
Knuckles and Rouge stages were ALL about exploring and charting the fastest route, since even though the Master Emerald shards seemed random, there was a select set of areas they could be at any given time, which made getting A ranks pretty interesting as you had to essentially learn the stage and how everything works to get it consistent. I enjoy all of Knuckle's stages in SA2 except for Aquatic Mine (seriously, f*** that stage), and Rouge's stages except for Mad Space. And heck, playing Knuckles' stages is pretty much single-handedly justified by his absolutely hilarious soundtrack. My only complain with them is that the radar only reacts to one shard at a time (unlike in Sonic Adventure), artificially extending those levels and resulting in nothing but padding. I still wonder what the hell was Sonic Team smoking when they came up with such a *brilliant* idea.
Tails and Eggman stages are honestly flawed, but still okay, fun to play. The only problem I have with those is that they reduced the mobility of the mech from what E-102 Gamma had in Sonic Adventure and didn't really have stages to accommodate mech gameplay very well. Otherwise, they made quite a bit of sense in that they too had speed dependent on momentum and thus rewarded learning the ropes of each stage and how to approach each segment appropriately for the sake of acquiring points. Oh, and Eggman's Theme is SA2 is the GOAT.
*Outside of Chao Garden, which pretty much everyone agrees was a great side-addition. I liked seeing the different looks my Chaos could have - whenever I wanted a Dark Chao, I would just play Sonic and throw that Chao at the wall for a LOOOONG time. Haha!
Sonic Adventure 2 is far from perfect, but in my opinion it's probably the most complete package out of all the 3D Sonic games in terms of depth and variety. I'm pissed that we never got another game that played/controled like Sonic and Shadow in SA2, and I've never been quite a fan of Unleashed's daytime gameplay style. :<
Oh, and please keep the the story coherent and internally consistent (or better yet, just remove it). Cutscenes in SA2 were completely all over the place.
**And yet of all things, freakin' Shadow the Hedgehog managed to fix rail switching by just automating everything.
I like you.Well, don't you sound qualified to discuss their merits!
And you failed at killing them too? What exactly isn't beyond you?
Lastly, you got it all wrong... they forced Sonic into the Chao's game. They're pretty much the only universally liked aspect of either Adventure game. The games probably would have been better by discarding everything else, lol.
Yeah in the day I had generations on generations of Chao. Bringing them around with the VMU was an amazing innovation that hasn't been matched since. (Cough cough, Apple Watch tie in to Sonic Runners, SEGA) Then the Dreamcast tanked and Sonic Advance came out with that GameCube transfer thing? Woo-boy that was some rad shit back then. I had tons of shiny chaos chao, shiny sonic, shadow and knuckles Chao ... Some like orange shiny sonic Chao. It was dope.
Never got a Tails Chao though. That shit was hard to get.
Aaron Strife
Banned
Thinking about this I actually do like a fair amount of the Knuckles levels. Aquatic Mine and Death Chamber are annoying because of how cramped they are, but Pumpkin Hill is pretty fun (as he points out), Wild Canyon isn't that hard to beat because of its design (there are really only 3-4 major sections the emerald will appear in) and Meteor Herd is just fun to dick around in. The randomization can be annoying for speed runs although the hard mode missions do put the emeralds in specific places.
I don't know if they had someone else design the Rouge levels because they aren't as good imo. They feel like actual work - the security hall level where you have to hit different switches to unlock a certain level's doors is excruciating especially when there are like two emeralds hidden on different floors and they'll never be open at the same time. Her version of Death Chamber has the same problems as Knuckles', the oasis level is annoying because of how it splits up making it prone to time wasting, and Mad Space doesn't handle the gravity concept very gracefully.
In general I'd say the hero side stages are better designed than the dark side stages, making me think the latter were designed after the fact to pad out the gameplay. In fact iirc only Sonic, Eggman and Knuckles were originally playable, which would make sense that adding Shadow, Tails and Rouge and giving them what are more or less alternate versions of the same levels would just be a cheap way to double the gameplay content.
I don't know if they had someone else design the Rouge levels because they aren't as good imo. They feel like actual work - the security hall level where you have to hit different switches to unlock a certain level's doors is excruciating especially when there are like two emeralds hidden on different floors and they'll never be open at the same time. Her version of Death Chamber has the same problems as Knuckles', the oasis level is annoying because of how it splits up making it prone to time wasting, and Mad Space doesn't handle the gravity concept very gracefully.
In general I'd say the hero side stages are better designed than the dark side stages, making me think the latter were designed after the fact to pad out the gameplay. In fact iirc only Sonic, Eggman and Knuckles were originally playable, which would make sense that adding Shadow, Tails and Rouge and giving them what are more or less alternate versions of the same levels would just be a cheap way to double the gameplay content.
NegativeCero
Banned
I recognize that its not a good game, but I'm mostly just nostalgic for SA2. I really liked it when I was younger, and I cannot tell you how much time I spent in the Chao garden.
Chezzymann
Member
I still listen to the knucles rap every now and then
So good
So good
BTW: I don't understand why did people find the Chaos Garden great. It did not find with a Sonic game at all. If people want that, better give a game only with those things.
Nah man, the Sonic and Chao modes are meant to complement each other (collecting animals and drives in the Sonic levels to give to your Chao). Without that the Chao Garden would be a lot less interesting.
I can't believe Sonic Team haven't brought back the Chao Garden in the age of smart phones. I reckon that a ton of people would buy a new Sonic game just to connect it to their Chao Garden app. Get on it, Sega!
Nah man, the Sonic and Chao modes are meant to complement each other (collecting animals and drives in the Sonic levels to give to your Chao). Without that the Chao Garden would be a lot less interesting.
So, the Chao Garden is more fun and important than speed and platforming at Sonic games? Really?