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Project AM2R getting legally slammed by Nintendo; file hosts hit with DMCA notices
- Thread starter Ghost_Messiah
- Start date
Relaxed Muscle
Member
Best 4 player co-op FPS based on the Metroid franchise of the year.
Holy Order Sol
Member
This makes about as much sense as people talking about "arrogant" Sony. Personifying corporations is meaningless. Why not bring honor and shame into it while you're at it.
RurouniZel
Asks questions so Ezalc doesn't have to
Someone needs to tell Nintendo that, metaphorically speaking, there's a difference between telling a kid to get off their lawn and and telling a kid to get off their lawn while pointing a shotgun at said kid.
protomouse
Member
Rather than putting the ZIP checksum in, it would be more useful to have a list of the game's files and their individual checksums instead (things tend to get repackaged).
Pretty much. Nintendo seems to think you can stick the genie back into the bottle.
It's just going to make Metroid fans even more upset with them at this point.
That's still online though. I feel like this remake is already out so it's just a matter of looking around if you want it and Nintendo can't do shit about that.
SinCityAssassin
Member
Not that I don't disagree that working out a deal would have a positive outcome, but why should they buy something that mostly uses assets they own.
Also they outsource IP development to outside devs all the time, what are you talking about.
dangeraaron10
Unconfirmed Member
It's like they missed the Metroid Queen for the Alphas.
Forest for the Trees and all that
Now the metroid menace is making nests everywhere throughout the vastness of cyber space and no amount of lawyer bounty hunters will wipe them out now.
BassForever
Member
Which was also one of the worst fan games I've ever played, some things don't deserve to live.
So let me get this strait. AM2R was in development for over half a decade with periodic demos and a vertical slice side project for gameplay demonstrations, and Nintendo waits until after it officially releases to C&D them? Sure its within their right and all, and I understand wanting to protect your IP, but what is the point of shutting them down after you've left them alone for so long and they've already released the files. It's a very high quality project for fans of a series they've essentially thrown to the curb. Its not going away.
Seems like the better move would to have been to throw the devs a nod and earn some goodwill. Especially with Federation Force on the horizon and the PR headache the combination of its launch and shutting this down is going to cause.
Seems like the better move would to have been to throw the devs a nod and earn some goodwill. Especially with Federation Force on the horizon and the PR headache the combination of its launch and shutting this down is going to cause.
BassForever
Member
I mean by looking the other way until after its out that lets the fans get it while still letting nintendo look strong in front of investors and IP law. Better then what SE did to Crimson Echoes
Labrynian Rebel
Member
Good thing I got AM2R in time, it's amazing so far. Now I'm probably going to stay up to the *second* Mother 4 comes out to make sure I don't miss out.
Because if they C&D before it's finished...no-one can play it!
I think people wait for it to be complete so they can be like "Hey, this thing is out now! Let's shut it down so our IP is protected!...but it still means people can enjoy it."
We should all be praising Nintendo for letting them release it really. I mean, they know it can't be stopped.
Basically. It's appealing to everyone.
WhiteRabbitEXE
Member
I saw it trending on Facebook. Was like, "welp"
Pellegri Testament
Member
Absolute fucking incompetence that it took them till after it's release to do anything about it.
I don't think you understand his point. Regardless of what you think of the fan game, Capcom still supported it.
SinCityAssassin
Member
Incompetence and Biding Time are two different concepts you can take for this.
Also, a reminder. No Cease & Desist has been given to anyone. DCMA takedowns were given to sites holding the download mirrors.
Let it embarrass them. They have to protect their IP so I understand that, but let it embarrass the shit out of them for not doing shit with the IP and getting shown up by some indie devs on their spare time. This, along with renewed interest in the brand and fan backlash could get the ball rolling on new iterations of the IP so I think some positivity could come out of this.
They're releasing a "new iteration of the IP" next week.
Necromanti
Member
I think that Nintendo is entirely justified to exercise their rights and use the full extent of the law to protect their properties. Not only is there a precedent for it, but it also makes sense financially, including wanting to protect a brand and to distance themselves from an unauthorized project using their licenses.
But at the same time, I will also state thus as someone not legally or economically affiliated with them in regards to a fan project made out of love and seeking no money in return:
Dear Nintendo,
Fuck your intellectual property rights. You can't stop us this time.
But at the same time, I will also state thus as someone not legally or economically affiliated with them in regards to a fan project made out of love and seeking no money in return:
Dear Nintendo,
Fuck your intellectual property rights. You can't stop us this time.
Krappadizzle
Member
Would someone be kind enough to point me in the direction of a d/l that isn't full of viruses and trojans?
You do realize this wasn't being sold or profited from in any way, yes?
FireBeaver
Banned
Ah shoot, I forgot to download it actually. Should probably do that quickly. Anybody got a link to a reliable download?
LordRaptor
Member
I'm a regular Neogaf poster and I'd never heard about this before this weekend.
I don't think its a huge leap of faith that corporate lawyers tasked with protecting IP hadn't been actively following development for years.
NOLA_Gaffer
Banned
Maybe they were waiting to see if the final game was still utilizing their assets.
Seven Force
Banned
It was awesome! Don't think C Viper or Rose should've been in though...
Not to derail the thread.
Ghost_Messiah
Member
I just feel so bad for the developer. All the blood, sweat and tears fusing in to ten years of solid hard work and now he's forced to take down his release including his personally uploaded download links barely a day after release. It's well within Nintendo's rights here but it's still a mean-spirited dick move. They had the choice to either look the other way or reach out to the developer Sega style. There were multiple options here and Nintendo went for the worst one that doesn't benefit anyone.
Also given the release post on the blog has now been removed it's highly likely if not definite the creator got hit with a cease and desist which is a shame and quite soul destroying for him.
What's more sad is that this was just the first release. The developer stated that this isn't the definitive version of the game - he had more updates and fine-tuning planned for down the road which might not be possible now if he adheres to Nintendo's wishes. It's such a shame.
Also given the release post on the blog has now been removed it's highly likely if not definite the creator got hit with a cease and desist which is a shame and quite soul destroying for him.
What's more sad is that this was just the first release. The developer stated that this isn't the definitive version of the game - he had more updates and fine-tuning planned for down the road which might not be possible now if he adheres to Nintendo's wishes. It's such a shame.
RPGCrazied
Member
Yeah, I think Nintendo had a problem with this, but maybe just didn't know about it, and now it knows cause of? Who knows, but they are to late. Its out there, on torrent. Its on the internet, no amount of DMCA take downs is going to be enough.
timetokill
Banned
I wonder if the developer is considering doing some name and sprite swaps which would put him in the clear.
Ghost_Messiah
Member
It'll live forever on the Internet that's for sure. Torrents are generally immune from legal action so the file will always be available. However not everyone has mad torrent skills like most of us here so this being removed from traditional distribution channels via mass takedown notices means less people will get to know about, experience and enjoy the game - and that's the saddest part about this. It reduces awareness and exposure.
Hell, even the release post is now removed. I wonder if the developer has ceased working on this now due to the legal action? I ask since Bombergames continued to work on the Streets of Rage Remake even in the face of legal troubles releasing a patch years later.
It'd be a shame if there's no further releases because of this. The developer had more development plans - this was only supposed to be the first version and not the definitive one.
Its a clear example of a once Stubborn company , can change and embrace the community. We went from SOR cancellation and Shining youtube take downs to Sonic Mania and Rom Hacks as mods on Steam.
Nintendo is still very out of touch with how all this works. And that needs to change.
Yep this is the best thing to do with this sort of thing. It would probably be a little more work for the Dev to port it to Nintendo systems but I wouldn't be surprised if they were happy to for a cut of sales of the game.
For example Valve hosts a Team Fortress 1 based mod on Steam as well as selling the Half Life 1 remake Black Mesa.
chaosblade
Unconfirmed Member
I can't help but feel like Nintendo is probably spiteful about this, given their abysmal handling of the series, the piss poor response to Federation Force, and the fact they seem to have no clue what to do with the series.
It is completely ridiculous to let somebody put work into something like this a decade and then slap them with a C&D. This project has been public with demos available for years. But I dunno, the creator should probably feel good about the fact that he made something good enough that Nintendo felt threatened by it. Because as much as people keep throwing around the whole "Nintendo shuts down everything!!!!!!" bullshit it's absolutely not the norm.
It is completely ridiculous to let somebody put work into something like this a decade and then slap them with a C&D. This project has been public with demos available for years. But I dunno, the creator should probably feel good about the fact that he made something good enough that Nintendo felt threatened by it. Because as much as people keep throwing around the whole "Nintendo shuts down everything!!!!!!" bullshit it's absolutely not the norm.
LincolnTunnel
Member
I agree that it sucks for the people who were involved that this was taken down, but there's a lot of people in this topic who seem to have some misunderstanding as to what "transformative" means in regard to copyright and fair use. Remaking something with entirely new assets is not transformative. Using new assets and a new story is not transformative. A cover of a song is not transformative, while a parody is. In order for something to be transformative it needs to recontextualize or add new meaning to the original work. It's incredibly difficult for creative works to be considered transformative, outside of parody. A fan remake of an existing game does not recontextualize or add new insights to the game. A non creative work such as an encyclopedia could count as transformative as it is presenting the material in a way that provides new insight and adds value to the original piece.
Aside from the nature of the work and whether or not it is transformative, there are a number of other factors that are looked at to determine fair use. The nature of the work is taken into account, and as a work of fiction it is far harder to prove fair use. The amount of material lifted from the original work is taken into account, as is the importance of what was lifted to the heart or nature of the work. In this case, the setting, characters, story, map layouts, and gameplay mechanics were taken directly from the original. It doesn't matter if they used a new engine or created all of the music and sprites from scratch.
The last thing usually looked at it is how the potentially infringing work affects potential markets, and I think this is another place that people are not often aware of the full scope. It doesn't matter at all if they're charging money for the work. That would just make it easier for Nintendo to prove their point. It doesn't even actually matter that Nintendo is currently offering Metroid 2 for sale. All that matters is that there is a potential market that exists in which Nintendo could possibly be profiting from Metroid 2 or a remake of Metroid 2. If that potential market exists, and could possibly be affected by offering the fan game for free, it's an infringement.
And before anyone calls me out, I'm not trying to "white knight" Nintendo. I'm just trying to explain some realities of Copyright law. It sucks that the project got pulled down, and it sucks that Nintendo isn't making the Metroid game that fans want, but loving something doesn't give you ownership of another person or corporate entities IP. Putting hours or days or years of work into something that it seems the owner doesn't care about spent give the right to use their IP. It sucks for fans of those things, but it's an unfortunate reality of how IP laws work. Anybody who becomes involved in a fan game like this, either in its production or just as a fan, should enter into it expecting it to be taken down as it infringes on somebody else's copyright. The fan games that haven't been taken down are always exceptions, as are the deals some companies have made with fan game developers.
Aside from the nature of the work and whether or not it is transformative, there are a number of other factors that are looked at to determine fair use. The nature of the work is taken into account, and as a work of fiction it is far harder to prove fair use. The amount of material lifted from the original work is taken into account, as is the importance of what was lifted to the heart or nature of the work. In this case, the setting, characters, story, map layouts, and gameplay mechanics were taken directly from the original. It doesn't matter if they used a new engine or created all of the music and sprites from scratch.
The last thing usually looked at it is how the potentially infringing work affects potential markets, and I think this is another place that people are not often aware of the full scope. It doesn't matter at all if they're charging money for the work. That would just make it easier for Nintendo to prove their point. It doesn't even actually matter that Nintendo is currently offering Metroid 2 for sale. All that matters is that there is a potential market that exists in which Nintendo could possibly be profiting from Metroid 2 or a remake of Metroid 2. If that potential market exists, and could possibly be affected by offering the fan game for free, it's an infringement.
And before anyone calls me out, I'm not trying to "white knight" Nintendo. I'm just trying to explain some realities of Copyright law. It sucks that the project got pulled down, and it sucks that Nintendo isn't making the Metroid game that fans want, but loving something doesn't give you ownership of another person or corporate entities IP. Putting hours or days or years of work into something that it seems the owner doesn't care about spent give the right to use their IP. It sucks for fans of those things, but it's an unfortunate reality of how IP laws work. Anybody who becomes involved in a fan game like this, either in its production or just as a fan, should enter into it expecting it to be taken down as it infringes on somebody else's copyright. The fan games that haven't been taken down are always exceptions, as are the deals some companies have made with fan game developers.
timetokill
Banned
You really think Nintendo is "spiteful" about it? Nintendo is not a person. It's a company.
What's more likely is this happened:
- "Hey, somebody released a game and they're calling it Metroid and the main character is Samus and there are metroids in it and everything."
- "Send out the C&D then."
Honestly I doubt Nintendo has given it much thought at all. Their instinct is to protect their IP. It has nothing to do with spite.
chaosblade
Unconfirmed Member
It legitimately wouldn't surprise me. They let it go for years, just like they do with most fan projects. This game was never hidden or under the radar, and it has had multiple substantial demos available. They didn't do anything about it until fully released with reception positive enough that it resulted in some major publicity (for a fangame, at least).
And I think you would have to be crazy to think they didn't know about it until now. There are tons of videos of the demos on youtube dating back a few years, and Nintendo manages to find much smaller projects that "break rules" like plugging donations. There's no way they just found out about it.
Outside of that one game that Beat Takeshi helped make, I cannot think of any instance where a game was made simply because they knew how much the audience would hate it. Like, I get that people are still pissed off about Other M, but I doubt Sakamoto's thought process during development revolved around "man, what can I do to really make fans hate me?" at any point. Same thing with Federation Force, which is more an issue of misreading the audience than Nintendo actively going out their way to give fans something they don't want.
Truthfully speaking, the more bitter Metroid fans flatter themselves way too much if they think there's some kind of conspiracy to make bad games.
Truthfully speaking, the more bitter Metroid fans flatter themselves way too much if they think there's some kind of conspiracy to make bad games.
Nintendo making it easy for me to hate them.
I'm sure this won't affect NX, but personally I'm considering not getting one anymore.
I was waiting TEN fucking years for this remake. And the guy released it and it's great, but it's not complete. Now I don't know if I will get the complete version because Nintendo took it down. Yeah, it's their right, as it's in my right to get pissed off with them.
Fuck Nintendo.
I'm sure this won't affect NX, but personally I'm considering not getting one anymore.
I was waiting TEN fucking years for this remake. And the guy released it and it's great, but it's not complete. Now I don't know if I will get the complete version because Nintendo took it down. Yeah, it's their right, as it's in my right to get pissed off with them.
Fuck Nintendo.
Ghost_Messiah
Member
This is the thing right here - the Nintendo hardcore practically single handedly kept the Wii U afloat given the mainstream were not interested and this move by Nintendo is generating such anger and fire the diehard fans like yourself are actually considering not buying the NX because of it. Surely Nintendo could have gone a different way about this than a takedown notice. They really should take a leaf out of Sega's book and look at connecting with their hardcore fans as opposed to attacking them.
I'm still interested in the NX but it doesn't change the fact that I'm angered and displeased at their shameful actions here.
The guy should be commended for his amazing work - not attacked for it.