I honestly have no idea if this is a serious or parody post.
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Project CARS Dev: PS4 Single Core Speed Slower Than High-End PC...
- Thread starter timlot
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It's solid for $400. Shadowfall doesn't look incredible versus other shooters that came out earlier.
dragonelite
Member
Compared to last gen games off course.
But if your already used to 1080p@60fps with clean IQ with pc gaming next gen is disappointing. I mean you would have thought 16xAF would be standard in next gen.
I can't think of a fps in recent memory that looks better than shadow fall.
could you name some first person shooters that in your opinion look better than Killzone
I can't think of a fps in recent memory that looks better than shadow fall.
could you name some first person shooters that in your opinion look better than Killzone
Crysis 3 looks better though obviously not on consoles.
Clean IQ can't make graphic better it can only make it ... cleaner. I play daily games on PC and there are only few games that looks as good as SF. You can count them on one hand. Also many people on PC would die to have rocksolid framerate with at least minimum 30FPS without spending ton of money playing those games. Saying everyone on PC is playing 60FPS@1080p is a bit of stretch. It's only true for small part of gamers out there most people have mid hardware to high and even high (something like 7870) isn't really perferct 1080p@60fps hardware in those games i mentioned.
It's quite solid for the price and they made some good calls on customization that'll help slow the aging a bit.
serversurfer
Member
Err, the graph is the data. It's a single-core test which shows the PS4 running 17% faster on an algorithm that isn't memory-bound. What more data do you need? This isn't speculation; it's just reading.
I think the PS4 is excellent value for money. The problem from my perspective is that it will be obsolete much faster than previous generations if the performance of PCs increases at the same rate as it did last gen. This is the first gen where console performance can be matched by a PC at a reasonable price. Last gen the 360 and ps3 while struggling with optimisation at first, were ahead of the curve and a rather expensive PC was the only thing that would equal it.
I'm genuinely interested in how performance optimisations with the PS4 will compete with the PC this time around, especially since x86 is well understood already (i know i know ggdr5, gpgpu etc etc) or whether many devs will simply not be as motivated to be as adventurous in order to maintain the best compatibility.
Although no one will believe it yet, Steam Machines are somewhat of an interesting way of giving PC gaming a focus in it's future endeavours as well as sparking more competition. That and the likelihood of both Apple and Google going head first into the lounge, may change the very nature of consoles and PC in 10 years time.
This is definitely a gen like no other, and hopefully it's just going to end up as a win for everyone
You honestly never heard of HSA, Unified memory, coding to the metal and the awesome 8 Gigs of GDDR5?
Whats there to parody? It's a bona fide FACT thats the PS4 is going to be just like a high end PC because of all those things plus it's Supercharged PC architecture which also should not be ignored.
You should ask JonathanPower about the benefit of 8 Gigs of GDDR5 and how the high end PCs won't be able to keep up with the PS4 because even high end PCs don't have 8Gigs of vRAM.
That's a very good question
Yeah you can also sli on a PC.
Memory is not added in SLi/CF unfortunately.
Hahaha, gotcha.
I always feel like I'm in a weird place in these tech threads. I'm really impressed by what the PS4 can do and know that it should hold up in most games for a while but I'm also not delusional about what it's possible for it to do.
So explain why i7 is slower than it should be, if thats just reading and straightforward data.
You dont know whats bottleneck this algorithm, You dont know if compiler could mess up those calculation. You dont even know what exactly the algorithm tests.
There is no data, except for mb/s. There is not even a sentence explaining what it does and how it was measured.
shakin_haitian
Banned
... The PS4 doesn't have 8 gigs of vRAM due to the unified memory. Some of that has to be devoted to the OS and other things as well.
iamshadowlark
Banned
Double standards on this forum are completely bullshit.
fluffydelusions
Member
I have a PS4 and played and beat KZ:SF but it can't compare to say Crysis 3/BF4 etc on PC IMO.
Bf4 looks okay. I honestly don't think it looks amazing. Art direction plays a big role in peoples perception of graphics. If we talk about bf4 on a technical level, it is debatable as to which looks better. Bf4 or Killzone. Killzone is using techniques not used in bf4 and vice versa. When it comes to art direction, killzone is miles ahead. Crysis 3 is the only shooter that looks better than killzone in my opinion.
serversurfer
Member
/shrug It's twice as fast as the consoles, and ten times faster than an iPhone 5. How fast do you think it should be?
qa_engineer
Member
cobragt4001
Banned
Metro LL completely kills SF. SF is too jaggy for me though. Arma3 by default, for me at least, kills SF; I'm inclined to realistic graphics.
hemtae
Member
Sure. That's why the post he was replying to said "In your opinion".
jim-jam bongs
Member
I'd offer to play you the world's smallest violin but I'd need quite a few of them to make up the same volume as a regular sized one.
Clock speed is still absolutely relevant, even in embarrassingly multithreaded code.
No, that is wildly wrong.
Just because the P4 architecture was horrible, had a low IPC and could not be clocked much higher without eating lots of power and making lots of heat does not mean clock speed is not important or that more slower cores is better!
Hell, Andy Tudor was not even talking about clock speed, but the speed their code runs at on the systems!
xn0
Member
I agree that clock speed is still in the equation but if you're talking to someone that is proud of their 4ghz overclocked CPU and doesn't know what their FSB speed is you know you're likely talking to someone who has no clue. Multi Core with optimized bus speeds relative to their CPU clock speed is where you start getting into the sweet spot for performance.
I'm speaking generally about CPU's and how was the P4 architecture horrible? Simply put CPU clock speed is not a reliable indicator of performance any longer. Case in point we had 3.8Ghz HT processors over 10 years ago, and my currently clock speed in my beastly gaming rig is 3.4Ghz from my Core i7 2600k.
A PC developer having to compromise on console hardware....Oh SHOCKING!?! Like that is not something obvious. PC developers are use to CPU's with BRUTE MUSCLE that PC's are accustomed in having. Heck even mid range PC CPU's are massively more powerful in what PS4 and X1 have. Even a Q6600 might still hold its own to what is in the PS4 and X1 but the CPU's in these consoles are NOT that vital to what they were designed for this new generation. Like someone else mentioned...game machines are now going to be heavily optmized for "threaded/core" performance vs using standard CPUs that have BRUTE FORCE in single threaded performance...
Its not so strange to hear a PC developer make such comments but what is strange is some people in here are not comprehending why this PC developer is saying what he is saying...well i guess not everyone is as informed in gaf as i think...who knows.
That said...the PS4 "IS" a beast and is VERY POWERFUL for a console. People wanting to compare consoles to PC's is just ridiculous. Its a open box vs a closed box and obviously a $400 closed box is going to be limited compared to a high end PC in raw specs but make no mistake about it...Killzone on PS4 is VERY IMPRESSIVE visually and if we look at the history of consoles...we all know that console launch games pale in comparison to games that are 2 years+ into a consoles lifespan.
I am first and foremost a PC gamer...well its the platform i play the most of my games I am in my later 30's now and i have been building my own rigs for many years now and my current build has a 3770K overclocked at 4.6ghz. I also own a AMD HD 7970 Ghz VaporX Edition 3gb videocard which is also overclocked at a massive 1200mhz core and 1600mhz memory..that right there is over 4Teraflops of GPU power, around 4.3 TF actually. Along with that i have a high end Asus motherboard, SSD and 16gb of ddr3 system ram and a TV Tuner card to watch TV while im surfing the net (My PC is connected to my Panasonic Plasma 55" tv). My point is that I know what high end gaming has to offer with maxed out visuals and all that ...even still i will say that Killzone on PS4 rivals that of the best of what i have played on my gaming PC running on the spec's above with games maxed out. Maybe not leaps and bounds better than that best visuals my PC is able to produce but right there with them..Heck uber high resolutions,AA,AF only do so much...but i would be a F'n idiot to say that i was not impressed playing Killzone on my newly aquired PS4 and to know that Killzone on PS4 is simply a rushed half-assed effort to get the game ready for launch which kinda blows my mind when thinking about what the PS4 will be pushing out with its games in a few years from now.
I never understand the e-dick swinging that goes on at gaming message boards. I guess it makes a person feel better? I honesty never understood any of it. Even though i have a pretty kick ass gaming PC and i kinda prefer PC gaming over any other platform...there is NO WAY i could go through this new generation of gaming without owning a PS4 to sit next to my gaming PC which is also my home theater PC connected to my plasma HDTV in my living room. There are just too many good games that will be on consoles that will not make its way over to the PC. All of my multiplatform games will be on my PC as long as there is a PC version..but Sony has way too many kick ass exclusives that i know will be jaw dropping beautiful on PS4.
I just happen to have way to much passion for gaming in general to rip apart other gaming platforms..because each and every platform has enough exclusives to make them awesome imho. And i also refuse to be a fanboy of the PC platform,etc... i guess you can say i am a "fanboy" of gaming as a whole! I just happen to hate platform specific fanobys because they give gaming enthusiasts a bad name!!
By the way...if anyone is curious on what kind of hardware most users of STEAM use..you might be a bit surprised that most people that have HIGH END PC SETUPS are definitely the minority even to this day! Check it out here http://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey
Its not so strange to hear a PC developer make such comments but what is strange is some people in here are not comprehending why this PC developer is saying what he is saying...well i guess not everyone is as informed in gaf as i think...who knows.
That said...the PS4 "IS" a beast and is VERY POWERFUL for a console. People wanting to compare consoles to PC's is just ridiculous. Its a open box vs a closed box and obviously a $400 closed box is going to be limited compared to a high end PC in raw specs but make no mistake about it...Killzone on PS4 is VERY IMPRESSIVE visually and if we look at the history of consoles...we all know that console launch games pale in comparison to games that are 2 years+ into a consoles lifespan.
I am first and foremost a PC gamer...well its the platform i play the most of my games I am in my later 30's now and i have been building my own rigs for many years now and my current build has a 3770K overclocked at 4.6ghz. I also own a AMD HD 7970 Ghz VaporX Edition 3gb videocard which is also overclocked at a massive 1200mhz core and 1600mhz memory..that right there is over 4Teraflops of GPU power, around 4.3 TF actually. Along with that i have a high end Asus motherboard, SSD and 16gb of ddr3 system ram and a TV Tuner card to watch TV while im surfing the net
(My PC is connected to my Panasonic Plasma 55" tv). My point is that I know what high end gaming has to offer with maxed out visuals and all that ...even still i will say that Killzone on PS4 rivals that of the best of what i have played on my gaming PC running on the spec's above with games maxed out. Maybe not leaps and bounds better than that best visuals my PC is able to produce but right there with them..Heck uber high resolutions,AA,AF only do so much...but i would be a F'n idiot to say that i was not impressed playing Killzone on my newly aquired PS4 and to know that Killzone on PS4 is simply a rushed half-assed effort to get the game ready for launch which kinda blows my mind when thinking about what the PS4 will be pushing out with its games in a few years from now.I never understand the e-dick swinging that goes on at gaming message boards. I guess it makes a person feel better? I honesty never understood any of it. Even though i have a pretty kick ass gaming PC and i kinda prefer PC gaming over any other platform...there is NO WAY i could go through this new generation of gaming without owning a PS4 to sit next to my gaming PC which is also my home theater PC connected to my plasma HDTV in my living room. There are just too many good games that will be on consoles that will not make its way over to the PC. All of my multiplatform games will be on my PC as long as there is a PC version..but Sony has way too many kick ass exclusives that i know will be jaw dropping beautiful on PS4.
I just happen to have way to much passion for gaming in general to rip apart other gaming platforms..because each and every platform has enough exclusives to make them awesome imho. And i also refuse to be a fanboy of the PC platform,etc... i guess you can say i am a "fanboy" of gaming as a whole! I just happen to hate platform specific fanobys because they give gaming enthusiasts a bad name!!
By the way...if anyone is curious on what kind of hardware most users of STEAM use..you might be a bit surprised that most people that have HIGH END PC SETUPS are definitely the minority even to this day! Check it out here http://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey
KingpinZero
Member
Real question here is if ps4 single core CPU is slower than medium end PC CPUs. There's no way they're up on par with high end intels, maybe in two generations.
Jaguar is a mid end CPU and that's about it.
Also kill zone may look impressive for those coming from 360/ps3, and it's good looking or ok for PC players, but not fantastic or jaw dropping or whatever.
Not after so much years spent with PC and Multi gpus setup. Take crysis 3 as an example or Crysis 2 pumped to the max with MaLdOs retexture, bump all above and beyond 1080p with ton of antialiasing while keeping 60fps and suddenly you will realize than nothing else can impress you.
I must admit that having something like KZ as a launch title on an unknown console is impressive though. That shows what the future holds, I just hope that framerate is something important for em.
Jaguar is a mid end CPU and that's about it.
Also kill zone may look impressive for those coming from 360/ps3, and it's good looking or ok for PC players, but not fantastic or jaw dropping or whatever.
Not after so much years spent with PC and Multi gpus setup. Take crysis 3 as an example or Crysis 2 pumped to the max with MaLdOs retexture, bump all above and beyond 1080p with ton of antialiasing while keeping 60fps and suddenly you will realize than nothing else can impress you.
I must admit that having something like KZ as a launch title on an unknown console is impressive though. That shows what the future holds, I just hope that framerate is something important for em.
Everything else being the same (e.g microarchitecture, cache, IPC ect.) Clockspeed is a good indicator of performance (at least as long as you are not memory bound or something like that).
Trying to split code up in to different threads is hard (and not always possible) and thus it is preferable to have the CPU's power split up over a small number of cores (e.g 4) compared to having the same amount of power split between more cores (e.g 8).
The point about them not talking about clock speed, but the speed at which their code executes, is also still valid.
Andronicus
Banned
reading some of these posts makes me think crack is making a comeback, of course its slower...
Wait so what happens when I have for example 3GB of ram in each card x3? Dont they all get used?
It doesn't get pooled together, your system still has 3GB of VRAM as each card will render an alternate frame.
MutonCommander
Banned
I don't think it is, to be honest. It is fairly priced, That's as far as I would go. But the hardware is just so underwhelming.
dragonelite
Member
Pretty much how i feel about next gen since the spec leaks.
I thought we would at least get a 7870 level of performance.
Still bought because of console exclusive and im a big halo fan can't miss that one out.
MutonCommander
Banned
And a much better CPU to go with it.
Maastricht
Member
Compared to what?
MutonCommander
Banned
My personal expectations.
dragonelite
Member
How about the longer then usual previous gen duration.
The 360 and Ps3 outstayed their welcome for 2~3 years.
Current gen spec would have been cool in 2011 but now in 2013 it feels kinda meh.
Probably because im already used to what they can deliver for 2 years now.
Ouya obviously.
iamshadowlark
Banned
DonMigs85
Member
RAM and the GPU aren't everything, the CPU still matters because it has to issue display lists, feed the GPU with other data, handle AI, collision detection and physics, etc. The 8-core Jaguar in here isn't even a match for a midrange Core i5 Sandy Bridge.
tkscz
Member
Umm... yeah. High-end PC's have CPU's like an i7 3930k or FX 9590, which are miles ahead of the PS4's APU.
Coding to the metal takes a ton of time and money and makes the code basically for the PS4 alone. Though coding to the metal gets amazing results (Iron Fall for 3DS) it's not something usually used by 3rd parties who want to make sure their product is on multiple systems.
About 2 gigs are used for OS and it's a unified pool. So not all of it is meant for graphics. People seriously overestimate the PS4's RAM. It's better than the other 2's RAM sure, but High-End PC's have 32 Gigs of GDDR3 main RAM to go along with about 2-6 Gigs of GDDR5 vRAM.
You seem to not have a clear understanding on how hardware works. Either that or you're being sarcastic, not sure which.
ArchedThunder
Banned
I think it was a troll post, however it is pretty obvious they went on the low end for the CPU because they went with a GPGPU.