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Project Gotham 4 new Screens - X360

I'm gutted it's not at 60fps. I'd drool at the prospect of playing PGR 3 at 60fps even without the additional effects.

Still, looks good, so I can understand the choices they've made.
 
I am kinda bummed out about 30fps. I could understand it on a launch title, but they've had 2 more years to work on the sequel, so I just don't get it. A great developer should be able to achieve 60fps with amazing graphics.
 
Emowii said:
I am kinda bummed out about 30fps. I could understand it on a launch title, but they've had 2 more years to work on the sequel, so I just don't get it. A great developer should be able to achieve 60fps with amazing graphics.
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I guess there's not many great dev left in the world then. ;)
 
30?! Wasn't the Forza team and the PGR team sharing their technologies?

Oh well, at least they aren't giving us false hope with some "we're shooting for 60fps" crap like the last time.
 
C4Lukins said:
If you were to take Forza and GT on one side of the spectrum and put Burnout and Ridge Racer on the other, PGR would pretty much be in the middle.

On the arcade side, you are racing through city streets. It does not focus on customization and it is very much jump in and play gameplay. It also has a bit of a combo system integrated into it involving drifting and you use the money to buy and collect new cars.

On the simulator side these are real cars, and it is not as forgiving as your typical arcade racer. There are no turbo boosts or anything like that. I would venture to guess the cars perform relatively similar to their real world counterparts, but the drifting and such may be exaggerated, I am no expert on the matter.

For me it is a happy median between the two. Simulators I find way to daunting mainly due to customization and my complete ignorance in that area. I still enjoy arcade racers like Mario Kart and Burnout but I have pretty much had my fill of everything else.
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I'd say that sums the PGR feel pretty accurately.
 
¤Ai®MåSt£®¤ said:
[30fpsDefenseForce] uh ... 30fps + MotionBlur > 60fps[/30fpsDefenseForce]
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No. that's not what they're saying. They're saying that 30fps+motionblur is pretty good, not that it's equal or tops 60fps.
 
jet1911 said:
I guess there's not many great dev left in the world then. ;)
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You're right. There aren't that many that I would consider true "greats".

Polyphony Digital certainly had no problem cranking out amazing graphics on the PS2, at 60fps. The same goes for Criterion, and the Burnout games. It can be done by those who strive for it.
 
Emowii said:
You're right. There aren't that many that I would consider true "greats".

Polyphony Digital certainly had no problem cranking out amazing graphics on the PS2, at 60fps. The same goes for Criterion, and the Burnout games. It can be done by those who strive for it.
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Maybe Bizarre has other priorities? Frames for effects?
 
Tieno said:
Maybe Bizarre has other priorities? Frames for effects?
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Well, that Burnout team certainly had a lot of effects happening on the PS2. Ever heard of "sparks"? They pretty much invented them. :lol



m0dus said:
Oh, give me a friggin' break. 70,000 - 100,000 polygon models, fully rendered interiors + Dynamic damage modelling, full-frame post processing, dynamic weather effects, interactive crowds and the like means there is a hell of alot more going on onscreen than GT. They have set their priorities for the visual presentation, and claiming that they somehow aren't 'skilled enough' to deliver is idiotic.
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We could debate for days about who is "skilled" and who is not, and we'd still probably be going around in circles. The limits of these next gen systems are still quite unknown.

All I know is PGR3 wasn't even able to run in a true 720p resolution, and thats a little lame IMO. I certainly think Bizarre is a talented team, but I just don't think they're the cream of the crop. I hold Polyphony Digital and Criterion ahead of them when it comes to race engine programming.
 
Emowii said:
Well, that Burnout team certainly had a lot of effects happening on the PS2. Ever heard of "sparks"? They pretty much invented them. :lol




We could debate for days about who is "skilled" and who is not, and we'd still probably be going around in circles. The limits of these next gen systems are still quite unknown.

All I know is PGR3 wasn't even able to run in a true 720p resolution, and thats a little lame IMO. I certainly think Bizarre is a talented team, but I just don't think they're the cream of the crop. I hold Polyphony Digital and Criterion ahead of them when it comes to race engine programming.
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Well, remember....PGR3 was built on an X800 series graphics card and off the shelf CPU. 360 devs did not have anything even remotely resembling final hardware until VERY late in development.
 
Piper Az said:
Has the PGR series ever had 60 FPS? argh.
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Well, the first PGR did (or technically the second, if you count MSR). Usually. :P
There were some framedrops at certain spots, but I didn't think it was that bad. BC seem pretty set on going with 30 fps nowadays though.
 
Piper Az said:
Has the PGR series ever had 60 FPS? argh.
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PGR1 was running at 60 fps, but it had some pretty bad slowdowns at times. I'll take a perfectly smooth 30 fps over 60 fps with slowdowns any time. Especially with motion blur.
 
It seems that there's not much progress to be made on XBox 360 in terms of graphics fidelity. They can push some new effects, but they didn't improve the basics. The cars are still made out of 70-100k polygons, the game still runs at 30 fps.
If graphcis are the only thing that get you ghyped about the game, then you should reconsider your hobbies.
 
WHOAguitarninja said:
Well, remember....PGR3 was built on an X800 series graphics card and off the shelf CPU. 360 devs did not have anything even remotely resembling final hardware until VERY late in development.
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Yeah, I know. Thats what i'm real excited about PGR4. Even with it's 30fps, i'll probably still buy it day one. I'm a racing nut.

I'm just expecting much more impressive things out of this sequel.
 
definetely not interested in Forza here.... I bought PGR3 as it is a happy median for me as well, and maybe I'll pick up 4 if I can get it for a good price (depends on what burnout looks like when it drops)
 
Ynos Yrros said:
It seems that there's not much progress to be made on XBox 360 in terms of graphics fidelity. They can push some new effects, but they didn't improve the basics. The cars are still made out of 70-100k polygons, the game still runs at 30 fps.
If graphcis are the only thing that get you ghyped about the game, then you should reconsider your hobbies.
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like obsessing about 60fps? And in the weekend dreaming about 1080p?
 
As I wrote in the other thread, am I the only one distinctly remembering BC's developers clearly stating that in PGR4 they were going back to 60fps, no doubt about it?

While I agree that 30fps+motion blur it's a good solution, for actual driving 60 fps are better, aren't they?
 
cedric69 said:
While I agree that 30fps+motion blur it's a good solution, for actual driving 60 fps are better, aren't they?
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I was really, really hoping for 60fps. Really.

Most genres I can accept 30 with no issues, but I think racers need 60 for the sense of speed. Weather effects and other details are scorching hot in those pics but...damn. Severely bummed. :(
 
cedric69 said:
As I wrote in the other thread, am I the only one distinctly remembering BC's developers clearly stating that in PGR4 they were going back to 60fps, no doubt about it?
Click to expand...

Looks like you are. Link to the statement?
 
Ynos Yrros said:
It seems that there's not much progress to be made on XBox 360 in terms of graphics fidelity. They can push some new effects, but they didn't improve the basics. The cars are still made out of 70-100k polygons, the game still runs at 30 fps.
If graphcis are the only thing that get you ghyped about the game, then you should reconsider your hobbies.
Click to expand...

Whatever SDF is paying you, they need to double it.
 
m0dus said:
man, who are you kidding, here? 'not much progress to be made,' except for the list of new additions on the first page? A new dynamic lighting system, weather and water effects? Come on. It's apparrent that 60 fps simply may not be a priority of theirs, vs. cramming as many immersive effects and extras onscreen. As long as it's stable, it's perfectly acceptable.
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The cars are as detailed as they were in PGR3, not more. They did add amazing effects that will affect driving, which is SSS in my book. My point wasn't to downplay anything, it was to say that yeah, you can drool on graphics, but there is plenty more to discuss beyond that. PGR3 was IMO a bit too realistic, if PGR4 is more like PGR2, and it seems that it will be, then I'm there on day one.

It's an amazing game, stop talking abut it's graphics.

Whatever SDF is paying you, they need to double it.
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WTF are you? I comment on things that I like, and only on the games that I like, trying to stick some brand to me is really stupid. While I might come of as pro SONY, I don't enter topics to spread the PS3 love dust, in fact, where was PS3 or SONY even mentioned in this topic?
 
Ynos Yrros said:
My point wasn't to downplay anything, it was to say that yeah, you can drool on graphics, but there is plenty more to discuss beyond that.
It's an amazing game, stop talking abut it's graphics.

WTF are you? I comment on things that I like, and only on the games that I like, trying to stick some brand to me is really stupid. While I might come of as pro SONY, I don't enter topics to spread the PS3 love dust, in fact, where was PS3 or SONY even mentioned in this topic?
Click to expand...

Ynos Yrros said:
It seems that there's not much progress to be made on XBox 360 in terms of graphics fidelity.
Click to expand...

.
 
Ynos Yrros said:
It seems that there's not much progress to be made on XBox 360 in terms of graphics fidelity? They can push some new effects, but they didn't improve the basics? The cars are still made out of 70-100k polygons, the game still runs at 30 fps?

If graphcis are the only thing that get you ghyped about the game, then you should reconsider your hobbies.
Click to expand...
Fixed. It took me a second to realize he just miscommunicated it.
 
Ynos Yrros said:
It seems that there's not much progress to be made on XBox 360 in terms of graphics fidelity. They can push some new effects, but they didn't improve the basics. The cars are still made out of 70-100k polygons, the game still runs at 30 fps.
If graphcis are the only thing that get you ghyped about the game, then you should reconsider your hobbies.
Click to expand...

You talking about GT fans? cuz gameplay in that series hasn't improved since the first one.
 
Heh, makes me feel good that i can play a 30 fps racing game and feel content. I really dont care cause i dont really see the difference...unless its side by side, but thats never gonna happen.

Will say PGR3 is the most fun i've had with a racing game since RSC2. looking foard to PGR4
 
I don't see graphics progressing on XBox 360 that much, that is correct. I do acknowledge that there are new effects in PGR4, but it's not a major step up, it's just added effects, models are still the same. But then, PGR3 still looks phenomenal to me, and those added effects will make the graphics shine that much more. The topic itself isn't worth getting stressed over IMO. We will get new PGR game this year, a game that seems to go back to PGR roots, and doesn't try to be as realistic as PGR3. I welcome that change.

I will probably connect to XBL soon (I jumped onto 2Mbps connection), so hopefully we will meet online. Drifting is my type of fune.
 
Emowii said:
All I know is PGR3 wasn't even able to run in a true 720p resolution, and thats a little lame IMO. I certainly think Bizarre is a talented team, but I just don't think they're the cream of the crop. I hold Polyphony Digital and Criterion ahead of them when it comes to race engine programming.
Click to expand...

:::Sigh:::

That's because you simply don't know any better. Personally, I'm beyond sick of GT fanboys showing up in PGR and Forza 2 threads talking sh** as if GT is the penultimate racing simulator. Gran Turismo ISN'T a simulator. Practically speaking, the closest you'll get to that experience is on the PC. The next closest will be FM2.

Moreover:

1) PGR3 was a launch title. Bizarre themselves said that they wanted to rewrite the engine after they had received the final 360 dev kits.

2) GT and PGR are different games that suit different purposes. How well they fulfill those respective purposes is the gauge by which each should be measured.
 
HokieJoe said:
:::Sigh:::

That's because you simply don't know any better. Personally, I'm beyond sick of GT fanboys showing up in PGR and Forza 2 threads talking sh** as if GT is the penultimate racing simulator. Gran Turismo ISN'T a simulator. Practically speaking, the closest you'll get to that experience is on the PC. The next closest will be FM2.
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Thank you very much for clearing up the confusion about GT and Forza. So GT isn't the sim, and FM is? Any other nuggets from the mountain top today?



Edit: Regarding your comment about me being a "GT Fanboy". You might want to read before you speak sometimes. I said on this very page, that i'm likely buying PGR4 on day one, just like I did with PGR3. So you can stop with the childish labels. Your Xbot underpants are showing.
 
m0dus said:
Unfortunately, going on about how 360 games have hit a terminus as far as graphical development, then bemoaning others talking about graphics, does not compute.

The cars in PGR 3 had 40,000 poly exteriors, and 30-40,000 poly interiors. what the ratio of this new 70,000 - 100,000 poly budget may mean for 'graphical fidelity' is up in the air, but citing it as a negative for the entire system's upcoming library is silly, and you know it. these shots already look far and away better than PGR3.
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McLaren in PGR3 is made out of 107k polys. And like I said, it looks phenomenal, I think that what we get is enough to be satisfied, so why are you guys arguing about it? If by saying that X360 won't go much further in terms of graphics, or rather that this game seems to indicate that graphics won't progress much further on X360, I somehow offend you, then please say so. In my opinion it's a valid statement, and it's not negative, nor positive.

I won't continue that debate, cause obviously it makes few people mad at me, I just don't see games announced on X360 that look better than GeoW, or racing games that look that much better than PGR3. Oh and we already got perfect cell shading as well.
 


this screen reminds me of the detail in the pre-rendered DIRT trailer, towards the end of that trailer where you see a closeup of the car's window with lots of mud on it. I'm not saying PGR4 looks like CG, but that screen looks really detailed.


I wonder if it were DICE programming PGR4 if they coud've hit 60fps.


can't wait to see PGR4 in motion.
 
m0dus said:
I'll try to work through the pain [/sarcasm] In my opinion, it is an invalid observation that you have used to create a blanket assumption-- that is simply not justified in light of what we have seen thus far, considering the immense potential of the images in the very first post. It is contrary to what everyone else is seeing as well (hence the more animated responses to your post) and, considering your post history / past preferences, may be seen as inflammatory by those same people. Moreso, is feigning innocence / ignorance to the fact that what you say has consequences going to be the kneejerk defense every time someone is taken to task for a strong opinion? Because, frankly, it's getting old. Then again, let's see someone jump into a GT thread, bemoan loudly that the game is stuck in a visual and interactive rut because the car-damage model has been omitted, then watch as you jump to his defense before he is (rightly so) torn to pieces.

You won't continue the debate, then you launch into it with the last two sentences of your post :lol please. You have shown little more other than you understand precious little of graphics and videogame programming if you think the climax of a system's visual capabilities has been reached within 1 year of its launch. God of War II, Shadow of the Colossus, Ninja Gaiden, RE4, and many others bid you a hearty hello.
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Why are you trying to reason with Sorry Sony?
 
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