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Project Natal - controller free gaming on 360

This is pretty awesome tech but it's going to be poorly implemented within existing gaming genres. Wii and Motion+ at least can exist on all areas of gaming. This is incredibly niche.

It's basically just EyeToy: Awesomer
 

J-Rock

Banned
Mik2121 said:
:lol :lol :lol :lol


zvzcxi.gif


:lol :lol :lol You guys are killing me with these gifs.
 
Prine said:
Dont worry, those of us that are really impressed know whats coming ahead. Once the shock has died down we'll get some intelligent discussions going. Alot of people seem to be hurt by Natal, and are clinging on to whatever they can.

There were plenty of instances where Natal came through, thats enough for the rest of the gaming public to take this tech seriously.
There is no shock, and no one is clinging to anything. First of all, this was revealed a couple weeks ago, if its shocking to actually see a rumor pan out, then shock it is! The tech IS cool, I think most rational people are saying that. But the way of moving forward with it does not seem to be the way MSFT is doing it, is what I am generally reading here.
 
So does anyone else suspect that MS and Sony might have secretly agreed on releasing these cam add-ons - based on more or less the same tech - to get more steam behind them in order to compete with the Wii?
If MS and Sony were really to include it in any console sold + bundle it with new games. The third parties would have to chose between the Wii (a system some of them seem to struggle with..) and PS360 for their family/higher quality casual games (like EA WiiFit alternative).

If Sony will introduce a new eye toy cam tomorrow similar to the one we've seen today then it will be pretty suspicious if you ask me.




Also I hope Milo will help a lot of pedophiles to cope with their disease... :(
 

Yoschi

Member
Mik2121 said:

I think the problem with this is that they had the motion capture working for one direction only (the avatar was turning around virtually but the guy wasn't turning with him).
The other tech demos seemed to have superior quality in capturing the player's movements, they were captured pretty realistically and fluid even though there was a bit of lag.

If i remember correctly, there was also that scene with the girl looking at herself on tv while wearing virtual clothes. They only showed her but not her virtual avatar, so i guess they just didn't have everything working properly bacause they wanted to rush as many tech demos as possible for e3. I think it's fair enough anyway, the developers only had a certain period of time to do the demos and they were pretty much on their own with this new kind of tech..
 
Seems like it will be very limited to a small subset of genres without a physical controller. It looks fun for mini game type experiences, but there is no way it will work well in adventure/action games and the like. On rails games here we come!
 
My gut reaction is that this thing will simultaneously underdeliver on what it promises, and missed the point to begin with. However, I think Nintendo themselves missed the point with Wii Motion Plus.

What will be interesting to me is if they pull this thing off in the way they idealize. Meaning, will people embrace this style of control?

I'm not too sure. I think when the Wii was brand new and lighting the charts on fire, there was some sentiment out there that amounted to "The Wiimote is great, but I wish it allowed for even more realistic movement." However, as time wore on, it seems to me that the gesture based movement actually proves to be more conducive for easy, fun gameplay than the original dreams of 1:1 movement. For instance, Wii Golf. Originally, when it was shiny and new, my reaction was "This is great, but I wish it really matched my swing!" Over time, though, it became clear to me that I didn't necessarily want it to replicate my real swing, as I have a terrible slice in real life. For that matter, I really didn't want to stand up and pantomime a real golf swing -- especially without a real club in my hand -- for any significant period of time.

Of course, I may just be an old fart who resents change. Who knows. I'm the kind of person who played Punch-Out!! with the motion controls for all of one round before quickly conceding that I much preferred the old-school method. So what do I know?
 

Sloane

Banned
quest said:
Well I do Natal could revolutionize RPGs with the Milo technolog.
Natal can't. AI could.

Does anyone remember EyeDentify by the way? It was part of Sony's fake PS3 trailer reel back in 2005. Looked a bit like Milo (some guy talking to two characters using EyeToy), and that never saw light of day. Just sayin'.
 

thefro

Member
WinFonda said:
Without tactile feedback anything geared towards physicality will feel incredibly empty. And the painting and stuff wasn't exactly practical. There may be a crazy awesome implementation of it at some point but I don't think we saw it at the conference.

That's a great point too, a big key to things like Wii Sports, etc feeling so good is the rumble/speaker when you hit a baseball/tennis ball, etc.
 

DrGAKMAN

Banned
Mr. Durden said:
Instead of looking at the insanely impressive tech made only for Nathal like Milo everyone just looks at the quickly implemented tech for the avatar.... Gaf has really hit a new low, really pathetic :lol

You beLIEve Peter's grandious vision of magically advanced 3RD wall A.I. shown behind closed doors when they can't even get a live demo of a dude RAISING HIS LEG right?

standingovationclap.gif
 

Tiktaalik

Member
avatar299 said:
It's the video game industry. When is the technology not incredible?

:lol So good
The wii was early and it got 5 hour long lines just to play wiisports and trauma center. Natal is behind closed doors.

I'm actually almost more interested in Natal's abilities for non-game content than for games. Seems like it could be used for interesting interfaces.
 

dyls

Member
Motion-sensing camera?? WTF, Ninty has finally totally loosed it. This is why I sold my Wii for $9 to my cousin.....and he played it for like 2 days and then it went into the closet for good. Ninty obviously has no interest in real gamers like me........I'm sure theyll just use this for some stupid Wii Video Partyzz or something...the guy couldnt even control his avatar super lulz—wait, it's for 360?

Day -1

/Gaf
 

Cosmozone

Member
Antagon said:
Milo was mostly scripted I'd say. Some things might be interactive, but if all of that was done dynamically Microsoft solved several problems that a lot of software engineers have worked on for decades.
Fixed. It's a given that Milo is not real AI. They used image and voice recognition to create a nice illusion, though. There's some potential to it: you could have downloadable episodes for example or give him really large script library. But for normal games, I don't see it. Perhaps you could do simulation games like Sims (call out to a specific Sim and tell him something).
 
D4Danger said:

:lol

Not sure I was feeling the "no controller" thing. Felt a bit air guitary. You can't beat the real thing. Well at least it'll be compatible with all those Wii accessory shells.

Neat tech though that has a lot of potential.
 
the whole milo demonstration felt heavily scripted. if the tech is really that far along then they would have shown it running in real time like the other natal demos. i have a feeling that the behind-the-scenes demo will again be under a very controlled environment.
 

Prine

Banned
Shiggy said:
But what do you want to do with the cam when you've got the pad? You can dodge. What's more to it?

As it looks now it's Eyetoy Plus.

Why not? I see them bundling both, it'll most probably complement traditional games while being the main focus of casual games.

You walk in and it recognizes you, loads your profile, you use your hands to navigate through the menu then play. Use both the 360 pad and Natal.

Its not obstrusive, you'll probably forget its there, simple know you have the functioanlity to your gestures for control.

Now the minority report stuff is up to developers. Still my mind is swelling with potential ideas.
 

ksamedi

Member
Tiktaalik said:
I'm actually almost more interested in Natal's abilities for non-game content than for games. Seems like it could be used for interesting interfaces.

Definitely could be used better than the Wii for fitness applications.
 
This is exactly like when people were saying the Wiimote could be used like a light-sabre. None of the amazing applications people are anticipating aren't going to be realized, and that's if they're even possible in the first place.
 

farnham

Banned
Phantast2k said:
So does anyone else suspect that MS and Sony might have secretly agreed on releasing these cam add-ons - based on more or less the same tech - to get more steam behind them in order to compete with the Wii?
If MS and Sony were really to include it in any console sold + bundle it with new games. The third parties would have to chose between the Wii (a system some of them seem to struggle with..) and PS360 for their family/higher quality casual games (like EA WiiFit alternative).

If Sony will introduce a new eye toy cam tomorrow similar to the one we've seen today then it will be pretty suspicious if you ask me.




Also I hope Milo will help a lot of pedophiles to cope with their disease... :(
will that ever work though..

MS and Sony will have to connect with the casual base if they want that.. and that has proven to be difficult this generation for both of them

Spirit of Jazz said:
This is exactly like when people were saying the Wiimote could be used like a light-sabre. None of the amazing applications people are anticipating aren't going to be realized, and that's if they're even possible in the first place.


its comming though

with wii motion plus
 
JasonMCG said:
:lol








But seriously though. Very interesting technology, but I doubt that it can become a *new way of controlling* in the near future. It's still a bit too prototypish, a bit too barebones. I don't see it working in every game genre either. But if MS throws all their weight behind this thing, it could become big. We probably don't know all the possibilities of this thing. Just give it time.
 

Reallink

Member
So I'm not clear what exactly MS's goal with this thing is. Best case scenario, it will be implemented in traditional games like the Shockaxis (secondary/tertiary gimmickry). Worst case, it won't expand beyond XBLA mini/party games at all. As they presented it (and unlike the Wii), there really doesn't seem to be any potential for meaningful implementation into core games. I wonder if this thing's advanced enough to detect a wand/'chuck style controller on the same accuracy and sensitivity level of Wii's IR (for aiming obviously)?
 
Love how people are fixating on that 2 seconds of video when everything else they showed worked very well. The paint demo was pretty amazing.

Glitches can be worked out, this thing isn't launching tommorow.
 

dabig2

Member
Sloane said:
Natal can't. AI could.

Does anyone remember EyeDentify by the way? It was part of Sony's fake PS3 trailer reel back in 2005. Looked a bit like Milo (some guy talking to two characters using EyeToy), and that never saw light of day. Just sayin'.

I remember that. I also still remember the below video from 3 years ago. Natal is what the eyetoy would be if Sony gave a shit and didn't treat this like some poor add-on.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZwwbkzEACws&feature=related
 

Mik2121

Member
OuterWorldVoice said:
I'm assuming he was demoing new tech in a giant auditorium with a vast projector and LED billboards behind him.
Are you sure? Because I thought the camera was quite near him and on his background there was only a wall without no LEDS actually. And even if there were leds, I thought this didn't work like the Wiimote, but like an actual webcam that scans certain points and then when they move, it applies those 'points' into 3d models and animate them.


So yeah.. it just the technology isn't advanced enough. Not surprising, anyway.
 

Shurs

Member
UltimaPooh said:
It's a demo.

It seems precise based on the game show stuff in the video reel. It was all voice and image recognition and it picked up on small movements like buzzing in with your palm.


You know that those were actors, right? And they were acting, right? They weren't actually playing anything.
 

JaseMath

Member
The adoption rate for this will be interesting to see. I personally feel that this is another EyeToy. For the record, I'd prefer controlling and navigating with a pointer and controlling with some waggle as opposed to broad hand, arm and leg gestures.
 

MisterHero

Super Member
Reallink said:
So I'm not clear what exactly MS's goal with this thing is. Best case scenario, it will be implemented in traditional games like the Shockaxis (secondary/tertiary gimmickry). Worst case, it won't expand beyond XBLA mini/party games at all. As they presented it (and unlike the Wii), there really doesn't seem to be any potential for meaningful implementation into core games. I wonder if this thing's advanced enough to detect a wand/'chuck style controller on the same accuracy and sensitivity level of Wii's IR (for aiming obviously)?
A camera would detect an LED coming from a wand, like some Sony patents explained

Even if the camera works well, I still don't think they understand the point of the Wiimote

they can always try though
 

Metaphoreus

This is semantics, and nothing more
OuterWorldVoice said:
I'm assuming he was demoing new tech in a giant auditorium with a vast projector and LED billboards behind him.

No need to assume that, friend. He was.

But I asked if you were just assuming that they haven't been working--like, "behind-the-scenes" or "in the R&D department"--for a long time, now. Based upon you're response, I'd say that you are, indeed, assuming just that. Again, the people at Microsoft thought this was ready to be demonstrated to the public. Remember when Nintendo first revealed the Wii remote? They had a mockup of Metroid Prime 2 developed that used it; that mockup reportedly took Retro two weeks to make. And guess what? Nobody but a select group of journalists saw it. If what you have is quickly-developed and obviously rough around the edges, then don't show it in public yet.
 

Prine

Banned
Shiggy said:
But what do you want to do with the cam when you've got the pad? You can dodge. What's more to it?

As it looks now it's Eyetoy Plus.

Why not? I see them bundling both, it'll most probably complement traditional games while being the main focus of casual games.

You walk in and it recognizes you, loads your profile, you use your hands to navigate through the menu then play. Use both the 360 pad and Natal.

Its not obstrusive, you'll probably forget its there, simple know you have the functioanlity to your gestures for control.

Now the minority report stuff is up to developers. Still my mind is swelling with potential ideas.
 
wayward archer said:
Love how people are fixating on that 2 seconds of video when everything else they showed worked very well. The paint demo was pretty amazing.

Glitches can be worked out, this thing isn't launching tommorow.

You're right, it launched decades ago. There is nothing new going on here. It's only being made into a game accessory to compete with Nintendo.
 

farnham

Banned
wayward archer said:
Love how people are fixating on that 2 seconds of video when everything else they showed worked very well. The paint demo was pretty amazing.

Glitches can be worked out, this thing isn't launching tommorow.
that paint demo was pretty pointless though

who wants to paint like that.. you can play drawn to life on the DS right now and on the wii this fall.. and that works (stylus or IR) much better
 

Jewbacca

Banned
Okay so MS showed off new tech.
People are like OMG DATS STUPID I MEAN LOOK IT BUGGED OUT WHEN HE MOVED.

I mean seriously guys his avatar freaked then it recomposed itself and it worked when he showed the bottom of his shoe.

The painting portion was impressive and looked flawless.

Milo was totally scripted but it showed certain aspects of the tech like voice recognition and, it showed some interactivity. For those who didnt see the demo Milo asks the chick to look into the pond or something and mess with the fish, so it pans the camera upward and shows a reflection of the player looking back at herself (as water does) and she used hand motions to ripple the water as if she was putting her hands threw it.

Overall MS had some tech and was like HAY GUYS LOOK WHAT WE HAS. They then proceeded to show some ideas they have for it within the realms of the technology.
They did not mention a release date or price. They did mention that developers were receiving a kit for the tech so im assuming they are serious about it.
 

Jaruru

Member
farnham said:
will that ever work though..

MS and Sony will have to connect with the casual base if they want that.. and that has proven to be difficult this generation for both of them

its comming though

with wii motion plus

M/Sony had never tried in previous gen. and for this gen, they're just trying to follow up...

are they going to persuade casual gamers to get an xbox360 + natal over a Wii?
don't think it'll happen
 

Yes Boss!

Member
I'm just hoping Sony's motion-control answer is a bit more impressive. I still think both MS and Sony should have just waited till next generation till it can become ubiquitous as a pack-in. Nintendo is blessed with the Resort trojan horse to get M+ into hands, at least.
 

JKBii

Member
I think this is great technology but it's being sent to market in the wrong way. Of people who own a 360, few of them will buy it and add-ons always splinter the market and aside from the Wii-Fit balance board, the subsection of the market that owns one is always too small to make development for it a profitable venture. Of people who don't own a 360, this is not going to be a selling point. Either they want casual games in which case they have a Wii, they want networking features in which case they'd rather use their computer to type than wave their hands in front of a television, or they were saving up to buy one in which case they like the 360's library of traditional games.

I think Microsoft should have launched this as a successor to the 360.
 

LCfiner

Member
dollartaco said:
You're right, it launched decades ago. There is nothing new going on here. It's only being made into a game accessory to compete with Nintendo.


the 3D position detection was around decades ago?

the software was around decades ago?
 
golem said:
man when sony trots out their waggle tomorrow theyre gonna look like yesterdays news

it'll be interesting to see what Sony has in store.....Natal is cool for interfacing with the console, but the game mechanics, well I'm not completely sold on at all.

If Sony does something in conjuction with an actual motion controller in combo with a camera it could definitely be better for gaming.
 
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