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[Barkley's Justice]

Its all done in post and known most easily as color grading. Filming at 24p, then dropping saturation individually on all RGB color scales combined with adding minor noise will give any digital film that recognizable film look.

Its being done still because its stylized art and sets the mood and tone for any film. I'm curious to see how studios shooting at 48 or 60p are going to make films not look like I"m watching a soap opera. Because as it stands, anything above 30p is pure garbage, puke vision if you ask me. I film all of my personal HDSLR footage at 30p, and only in 60p when I am purposely going to drop the frames 1/2 to 30p to get much smoother slowmo. Motionflow, or any other post software interpolation is disabled on all my displays at home.

I quite honestly cannot stand to look at anything faster than 30p, its a major snob pet peeve of mine. I look forward to studios and movies in the future changing my opinion but as it stands today in 2012 ... 24-30p or bust. Maybe Peter Jackson cant swoon me with The Hobbit.. we'll see.

Thanks for the clarification. Still, I feel like there's some introspective "unlearning" we all need to do. Stylized, sure. But it's a visual language of a former format/technology. I feel the same way when I look at the iPhone UI: The icon for the phone is a traditional phone handset, but that's not what my iphone looks like? The icon for email is an envelop. Why? iBooks is represented by a bounded novel. It's funny how we step forward but keep one step back.

 

[Suairyu]

They could just release both, let the audience choose. You'd get higher quality too because you could have less compression on the actual visual field while maintaining the same bitrate.

At 50gigs for 1080p footage, the reduced visual field isn't going to make any visually noticeable difference to compression.

 

[StuBurns]

At 50gigs for 1080p footage, the reduced visual field isn't going to make any visually noticeable difference to compression.

Might well not. It might be more important going forward when we're trying to get 120fps on to these blurays.

 

[x-Lundz-x]

Just re watched the trailers again for the 20th time to make sure my suspicions were right.

Yup, movie of the fucking decade.

 

[GhaleonEB]

I watched the international trailer 3-4 times per day since it hit. I do not see this trend stopping any time soon. (US one is too spoilery.)

 

[Suairyu]

Might well not. It might be more important going forward when we're trying to get 120fps on to these blurays.

I honestly don't care about 3D blu rays, so 60fps is the upper-limit of my own personal collection for now. I believe triple-layer blu ray discs offer 100gig storage, though I'm uncertain as to how capable existing players are at reading them.

 

[Anton Sugar]

Thanks for the clarification. Still, I feel like there's some introspective "unlearning" we all need to do. Stylized, sure. But it's a visual language of a former format/technology. I feel the same way when I look at the iPhone UI: The icon for the phone is a traditional phone handset, but that's not what my iphone looks like? The icon for email is an envelop. Why? iBooks is represented by a bounded novel. It's funny how we step forward but keep one step back.

Well, now we're kinda discussing two different things. UI icons needs to indicate what they are in a very simple way. The silhouette of a telephone handset is easier to recognize compared to our rectangular smartphones.

In terms of "unlearning", I really don't feel its a matter of "one step forward, one step back" at all. There are a number of modern films (or scenes, even) that are black and white, and probably better for it.

Once old technology is surpassed, it's not just discarded--it simply becomes an option.

 

[Suairyu]

I dunno; comparing black and white to his point isn't entirely correct. Black and white has clear, objective advantages over colour for many contexts. I'm not so sure if there is an objective advantage to grain. I do fucking love it, though.

 

[Karma Kramer]

wow, click to enlarge

 

[MrCunningham]

wow, click to enlarge

I rarely ever say this about big budget pictures these days.... but GOD DAMN! Ridley's still got it when it comes to framing a shot!.

 

[Anton Sugar]

I dunno; comparing black and white to his point isn't entirely correct. Black and white has clear, objective advantages over colour for many contexts. I'm not so sure if there is an objective advantage to grain. I do fucking love it, though.

Adding grain clearly doesn't have as much of a visual impact as black and white, but if black and white has objective advantages, grain does as well. It just depends on when and how it's used.

 

[MrCunningham]

The whole Alien Queen thing, while cool, already contradicted Alien's vision for the aliens.

And I'm not saying he'll be willfully contradicting Cameron's film, more that he won't even be regarding it in the slightest as he'll be too wrapped up in what he wants to do. I have nothing to support this other than my own intuition!

yeah okay realitypalez JEEZ

But you have to wonder if the deleted footage was even publicly available in 1983-84 when Cameron started writing his script. I think it was stated somewhere that Cameron started the Alien 2 script as fan fiction and showed it off to the people at 20th Century Fox when he was working on The Terminator. They liked it and apparently told him to finish it. He might have not even been aware of the deleted footage back then.

But I think referencing the insect world to fill in the blanks of the Alien reproductive process was a pretty logical conclusion at the time, and the Queen made a nice surprise villain in the end too.

Also didn't Ridley Scott say somewhere that he won't be leading this movie into the Alien universe despite it being a prequel? He may gloss over the details on the Aliens completely and not worry about it. The Alien cannon has never really been consistent though, and if you count the AvP movies (and nobody ever should) then it just makes an even bigger mess.

 

[The Lamonster]

hnnnnggg

 

[StuBurns]

But you have to wonder if the deleted footage was even publicly available in 1983-84 when Cameron started writing his script. I think it was stated somewhere that Cameron started the Alien 2 script as fan fiction and showed it off to the people at 20th Century Fox when he was working on The Terminator. They liked it and apparently told him to finish it. He might have not even been aware of the deleted footage back then.

Cameron had written his own sci-fi treatment called Mother, loosely relating to the primary relationship in Aliens, and in a meeting with Fox they asked him to pitch something for Alien 2, and he altered and pitched his Mother treatement.

 

[alphaNoid]

Thanks for the clarification. Still, I feel like there's some introspective "unlearning" we all need to do. Stylized, sure. But it's a visual language of a former format/technology. I feel the same way when I look at the iPhone UI: The icon for the phone is a traditional phone handset, but that's not what my iphone looks like? The icon for email is an envelop. Why? iBooks is represented by a bounded novel. It's funny how we step forward but keep one step back.

I understand and you have valid concerns. I look forward to proper change.

 

[MrCunningham]

Cameron had written his own sci-fi treatment called Mother, loosely relating to the primary relationship in Aliens, and in a meeting with Fox they asked him to pitch something for Alien 2, and he altered and pitched his Mother treatement.

Ahh OK, I read that it was fan fiction, but It was loosely based on the first Alien film and later reworked into Alien 2. Thanks for the clarification.

 

[StuBurns]

Ahh OK, I read that it was fan fiction, but It was loosely based on the Alien film and reworked into Alien 2. Thanks for the clarification.

I only know that because I literally just watched Aliens with the commentary on today, I've been meaning to listen to it for ages, I believe it was Sculli who told me it was great on here in our pre-Avatar era.

It's funny, watching them back to back (although, with Aliens more only visually), and hearing Cameron talk about the specific influences the original had on his take on the series was pretty fascinating. I think most people recognize the film begins very much inline with the Scott style, then breaks away to something a lot more action focused, but to hear very specific allusions is really interesting. I highly recommend it. I'm going to listen to the Alien commentary tomorrow I think.

 

[nomis]

that's funny you say that. here's a technology that is arguably better than film, yet we're so used to film that we desire its qualities even if (technically speaking) we're beyond them?

perhaps they added the grit in post? or perhaps they chose a camera that emulates film's grain with noise? in either case, i wonder when we (the movie-going audience as well as the content creators) will step back and ask, "why are we adding or emulating grain? why not embrace digital technology for what it offers?"

I'm actually not sure if that's any kind of noise, or just artifact-ing from the bitrate of the trailer. What I meant by grit is that the production design of this movie seems to have enough grittiness that it doesn't need to use film grain as a crutch to look "more real". The digital image should be pretty pristine when we see it in theaters.

 

[Suairyu]

but if black and white has objective advantages, grain does as well.

Dude, I love film grain, but no. Film grain is merely an aesthetic choice. Black and white is factually better at representing certain aspects of photography, such as form and texture, than colour is. It's basic art theory.

I totally agree with you that both are artistic choices/tools now and neither should be thought of as "outdated" as technology marches on, but I don't think they're equivalent choices.

 

[symphonask]

wow, click to enlarge

Wow the shape of that temple in the background clearly invokes one of Giger's unused concepts for the Dune movie. I'd post a comparison picture but I'm on my phone atm.

edit:

edit2:

Weyland Industries' website has updated with an extensive Investor Information page, really interesting:

https://www.weylandindustries.com/#/information

 

[Tom_Cody]

This had been my desktop for the last few months, now switching over to that shot of the Prometheus entering orbit.

Fuck- everything about this movie is just flawless.

 

[Tom_Cody]

Wow the shape of that temple in the background clearly invokes one of Giger's unused concepts for the Dune movie. I'd post a comparison picture but I'm on my phone atm.

edit:

edit2:

Weyland Industries' website has updated with an extensive Investor Information page, really interesting:

https://www.weylandindustries.com/#/information

According the that site, Peter Weyland is still supposed to be alive (though extreme old) and acting as CEO.

Do we know anything about Peter Weyland (Guy Pierce) in the time period of the Film? Guy Pierce is at his current age in the 2023 TED talk. Is it possible he is the wheelchair bound character that was visible in the past teaser?

http://avp.wikia.com/wiki/Stannison

I am very curious about what role he will play in the film.

Also, that site answers the question about mankind's reach into space at the time of the film. According to that, hundreds of millions of people live "off-world".

I had thought that Project Prometheus was supposed to be a project on a massive scale, something similar to the Manhattan Project or the Apollo missions. If we have actually traveled in space so extensively, that would seem to diminish the stakes of their initial voyage.

 

[Anton Sugar]

Wow, nice work on that temple/Giger connection.

Dude, I love film grain, but no. Film grain is merely an aesthetic choice. Black and white is factually better at representing certain aspects of photography, such as form and texture, than colour is. It's basic art theory.

I totally agree with you that both are artistic choices/tools now and neither should be thought of as "outdated" as technology marches on, but I don't think they're equivalent choices.

Fair enough--poor example for a valid point.

 

[Man]

Do we know anything about Peter Weyland (Guy Pierce) in the time period of the Film? Guy Pierce is at his current age in the 2023 TED talk.

Peter Weyland was born October 1st 1990 according to the Weyland site. That would make him 95 years old in the film.

 

[Black_Stride]

wow, click to enlarge
[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/bCcEk.jpg[/IMG]

Sweet Jesus!
Im going to IMAX the shit out of this movie!

 

[Anton Sugar]

Peter Weyland was born October 1st 1990 according to the Weyland site. That would make him 95 years old in the film.

Let's also keep in mind that this is a future where stasis/medical machines and androids are being invented. Feasible that Weyland would have something to help his longetivity, if age is a concern.

 

[nelsonroyale]

Visually the UK trailer looked excellent...otherwise the writing and set up seemed very standard fair. I will watch it, but I am keeping my expectations in check

 

[rififi]

Peter Weyland was born October 1st 1990 according to the Weyland site. That would make him 95 years old in the film.

According to the Weyland site, 95 is also the average life expectancy of Weyland employees. But I am going to agree with Anton on this one as well.

 

[G-Fex]

I think if they make a sequel to this it should be called..

"Star Beast"

 

[Get'sMad]

Trying to convince my anesthesiologist friend to put me in a medically induced coma until June.

He won't do it.

 

[Mr Swine]

According to the Weyland site, 95 is also the average life expectancy of Weyland employees. But I am going to agree with Anton on this one as well.

I don't know, having a 95 year old in Prometheus doesn't sound like a good idea. Really, why would he follow to a planet nobody knows if there are any intelligent life forms?

 

[JB1981]

I don't know, having a 95 year old in Prometheus doesn't sound like a good idea. Really, why would he follow to a planet nobody knows if there are any intelligent life forms?

Scott has confirmed that

Spoiler

Guy Pierce will appear in the movie, though at what age and in what capacity he would not say.

 

[Anton Sugar]

Too lazy to figure out the timelines, but with stasis, couldn't an age like 95 conceivably be 65, if he was just in stasis for 30 years?

Weyland totally stasis'd until Prometheus was ready.

 

[Tom_Cody]

Scott has confirmed that

Spoiler

Guy Pierce will appear in the movie, though at what age and in what capacity he would not say.

I'm assuming that at least some amount of the TED talk will appear in the film. I am also curious to know if some older/altered version of Weyland will appear in 2085.

Let's also keep in mind that this is a future where stasis/medical machines and androids are being invented. Feasible that Weyland would have something to help his longetivity, if age is a concern.

According to the Weyland site, 95 is also the average life expectancy of Weyland employees. But I am going to agree with Anton on this one as well.

This is what has me somewhat excited. Guy Pierce as an old man is not interesting, but the Weyland character as a cyborg or with some connection to an android in the film is very interesting to me.

In a recent video interview, when asked about the TED video, Damon Lindelof hinted that fans should be curious about Peter Weyland's role in the film.

http://www.slashfilm.com/film-video...f-talks-prometheus-secrets-viral-star-trek-2/

 

[Zeliard]

I'm assuming that at least some amount of the TED talk will appear in the film. I am also curious to know if some older/altered version of Weyland will appear in 2085.

The TED talk is a completely separate thing. They just developed that as a bit of fun marketing. It won't be in the movie proper.

 

[GhaleonEB]

Fantastic catch with the Dune concept art connection, symphonask. We'd all been looking to the egg silo pyramid art from Alien, but the curve on the top of the structure is unmistakably similar to the Dune art. In concept they're going with the Alien structure, with elements lifted from his Dune piece.

Really interesting how they're going back not only to the origins in Alien, but to some of the original ideas behind the film.

 

[leadbelly]

Peter Weyland was born October 1st 1990 according to the Weyland site. That would make him 95 years old in the film.

I suppose you could look at it as, in the future 95 isn't that old. Perhaps not as old as we would consider it now.

 

[Tom_Cody]

The TED talk is a completely separate thing. They just developed that as a bit of fun marketing. It won't be in the movie proper.

Ok.

 

[Tom_Cody]

Fantastic catch with the Dune concept art connection, symphonask. We'd all been looking to the egg silo pyramid art from Alien, but the curve on the top of the structure is unmistakably similar to the Dune art. In concept they're going with the Alien structure, with elements lifted from his Dune piece.

Really interesting how they're going back not only to the origins in Alien, but to some of the original ideas behind the film.

I think that notion permeates everything we've seen so far. I feel that especially after having recently watched the Alien Anthology doc. Given that the first film was so restricted by technology and budget, this seems to bring to life a lot of the concepts that were either cut or marginalized in the production of the first film.

Even details like the interior of the ship seem to be fuller realizations of Alien's original concept art and story boards.

 

[GhaleonEB]

I think that notion permeates everything we've seen so far. I feel that especially after having recently watched the Alien Anthology doc. Given that the first film was so restricted by technology and budget, this seems to bring to life a lot of the concepts that were either cut or marginalized in the production of the first film.

Even details like the interior of the ship seem to fuller realizations of Alien's original concept art and story boards.

That's very true, and something I hadn't really realized. I also got through the Anthology docs in the past month for the first time; the Prometheus interior does more closely match the style of Ron Cobb's detailed concepts than the final film Alien did.

 

[Eight Diagram Bat Fighter]

Its all done in post and known most easily as color grading. Filming at 24p, then dropping saturation individually on all RGB color scales combined with adding minor noise will give any digital film that recognizable film look.

Its being done still because its stylized art and sets the mood and tone for any film. I'm curious to see how studios shooting at 48 or 60p are going to make films not look like I"m watching a soap opera. Because as it stands, anything above 30p is pure garbage, puke vision if you ask me. I film all of my personal HDSLR footage at 30p, and only in 60p when I am purposely going to drop the frames 1/2 to 30p to get much smoother slowmo. Motionflow, or any other post software interpolation is disabled on all my displays at home.

I quite honestly cannot stand to look at anything faster than 30p, its a major snob pet peeve of mine. I look forward to studios and movies in the future changing my opinion but as it stands today in 2012 ... 24-30p or bust. Maybe Peter Jackson cant swoon me with The Hobbit.. we'll see.

You shoot with a DSLR. Your comment is void. There is nothing wrong looking with 48fps. You're getting the same 180 degree shutter that you can't get with DSLRs. Movies look great at 48fps, just less motion blur.

You don't need to add noise with the RED Epic that he is shooting with, the noise is natural of the sensor, and the noise from the RED is pretty good. And the color profile of REDgamma2 and REDcolor2, you don't need to desaturate the RGB levels, since it is already flat and shot in raw format. With RED, it's a completely different way of grading than with traditional DSLRs. In fact, you actually need to boost the rgb levels when shooting with RED.

 

[StuBurns]

Don't you have to add noise just to keep consistency with CG? I don't imagine you can put a CG image 'in' the image, behind the naturally occurring noise.

 

[Eight Diagram Bat Fighter]

Don't you have to add noise just to keep consistency with CG? I don't imagine you can put a CG image 'in' the image, behind the naturally occurring noise.

Depends on the level of noise density for the scene, which is actually metered on the RED cameras. But there is software to emulate that noise ratio onto the CG element. You add the noise to the CG element, not to the entire frame. More noise is what you want to avoid, because noise isn't actual data the sensor picks up and gives you less control over the shadows and highlights.

 

[TheJollyCorner]

This is what has me somewhat excited. Guy Pierce as an old man is not interesting, but the Weyland character as a cyborg or with some connection to an android in the film is very interesting to me.

Weyland is a brilliant man with a scientific empire of geniuses. I have no doubts that his people might have found a way to prolong his life and/or transfer his consciousness (someway) into one of his androids. Or stasis. I agree with Anton Sugar. If anyone would find a way in this fiction it would be a man like Weyland.

I mean, (Prometheus character name spoiler)

Spoiler

Fassbender's character is named David. Weyland named his cyborg/android/synthetic-human line off of the son he apparently never had- David. According to the time-line, Weyland put extensive research into revisions to make 'David' more capable of displaying emotions and coexisting with humans.

If any of you really want to get into the mood, go read the time-line on the viral site:
https://www.weylandindustries.com/#/timeline

and listen to this glorious Jerry Goldsmith track from ALIEN on loop while listening:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XzDqinO11O0&feature=results_video&playnext=1&list=PL6E9C5033ADD7680B

Start from Weyland's birth in 1990 and work your way up.

Get you in the mood!

 

[StuBurns]

Depends on the level of noise density for the scene, which is actually metered on the RED cameras. But there is software to emulate that noise ratio onto the CG element. You add the noise to the CG element, not to the entire frame. More noise is what you want to avoid, because noise isn't actual data the sensor picks up and gives you less control over the shadows and highlights.

So, just to make it overly clear, let's say there's a full 4k frame, and in the center you'll need to add an alien ship, you add it in CG, then you emulate the naturally occurring noise, and it's placed just over the CG, and it matches the full frame's noise seamlessly? And this is an automated process?

 

[Eight Diagram Bat Fighter]

So, just to make it overly clear, let's say there's a full 4k frame, and in the center you'll need to add an alien ship, you add it in CG, then you emulate the naturally occurring noise, and it's placed just over the CG, and it matches the full frame's noise seamlessly? And this is an automated process?

Yes, which is why you try to avoid as much noise as possible while shooting, which is why there is a need for proper exposure. Noise is scattered randomly in every frame, so you're not going to notice a cutout with it's own type of noise if you do it properly. The software in most CG renders can capture the noise floor of the raw scene and emulate it pretty well actually. The noise is added to the cg element during the render process of that scene by the rendering software.

 

[MMaRsu]

This will be my first ever IMAX film.. FUCK YEA

 

[alphaNoid]

You shoot with a DSLR. Your comment is void. There is nothing wrong looking with 48fps. You're getting the same 180 degree shutter that you can't get with DSLRs. Movies look great at 48fps, just less motion blur.

You don't need to add noise with the RED Epic that he is shooting with, the noise is natural of the sensor, and the noise from the RED is pretty good. And the color profile of REDgamma2 and REDcolor2, you don't need to desaturate the RGB levels, since it is already flat and shot in raw format. With RED, it's a completely different way of grading than with traditional DSLRs. In fact, you actually need to boost the rgb levels when shooting with RED.

Thanks for correcting me, I totally forgot that they were shooting with RED. For sure though, my DSLR config is a toy compared to big budgeted movie studios. I suppose in general though, my statement was fairly blanket so I appreciate some criticism. Interesting though about grading in RED, so does it shoot in a format, say similar to RAW then? In that, it captures a "more" flattened/unprocessed image so that more data/pixels are preserved to be manipulated in post?

 

[Eight Diagram Bat Fighter]

Thanks for correcting me, I totally forgot that they were shooting with RED. For sure though, my DSLR config is a toy compared to big budgeted movie studios. I suppose in general though, my statement was fairly blanket so I appreciate some criticism. Interesting though about grading in RED, so does it shoot in a format, say similar to RAW then? In that, it captures a "more" flattened/unprocessed image so that more data/pixels are preserved to be manipulated in post?

All good man, I was there once too. But yes, the RED shoots in RED RAW. Mostly pure metadata. It captures up to 18 steps of lattitude in a flat FLUT profile. Everything else is purely meta. ISO, white balance, all that stuff doesn't really exist when shooting with the RED, because all of that you can change in post. The native "ISO" for the RED is 320, so if you can expose around that ISO, your image will be pretty good between your darks and lights. The things you can do to your video without degrading the quality of an .r3d file is insane. Main reason I got a RED cam. DSLR was limiting me in what I wanted to do.

 

[alphaNoid]

All good man, I was there once too. But yes, the RED shoots in RED RAW. Mostly pure metadata. It captures up to 18 steps of lattitude in a flat FLUT profile. Everything else is purely meta. ISO, white balance, all that stuff doesn't really exist when shooting with the RED, because all of that you can change in post. The native "ISO" for the RED is 320, so if you can expose around that ISO, your image will be pretty good between your darks and lights. The things you can do to your video without degrading the quality of an .r3d file is insane. Main reason I got a RED cam. DSLR was limiting me in what I wanted to do.

Awesome!