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[GrotesqueBeauty]

Yep, it's more or less the same thing with acupuncture, although you could argue that the mental effect achieved from it does artificially create some mental benefits.

Belief can be a powerful thing.

For the love of God, please don't lump acupuncture in the same category as homeopathy which is demonstrably nonsensical. As someone who has been dealing with a chronic pain condition for years it smacks of bullshit. A lot of people have similar criticisms of chiropractors as well, which are equally as ill founded. I will grant that there are those who are overly eager to paint certain methods as a cure all, which nothing is (although to my mind these people are not so different from those who dismiss whole branches of medicine with the wave of a hand). It's also true that within some Eastern disciplines it is sometimes difficult to separate the mysticism from the practical application since they've evolved together as a matter of tradition. I've seen multiple acupunture and chiropractic practitioners however, and the truth is that there are both charlatans and skilled providers, the latter of which can produce tangible results. Although there remain certain gaps in the understanding of these treatments from a clinical standpoint they have had effects on my condition where more mainstream orthopedic approaches failed me. In fact, it was one of the better orthopedists I had that ultimately referred me to my first acupuncturist.

I personally have a strong aversion to needles (I hate them) but have had to resign myself to the fact that acupuncture is one of the only effective treatments I've found for my pain. I have done occupational and physical therapy, electric stimulation, injections, biofeedback and pretty much anything else short of surgery. I have prescription muscle relaxers and analgesics (pills and topical), but only the right mix of chiropractic and acupuncture has turned out to provide any lasting practical benefit.

If it were a simple matter of finding psychological security in just doing something I undoubtedly would've been better off when I was receiving the more conventional treatments than having to reach the end of my tether and branch out into alternative therapies, not to mention cycle between different providers at great expense before finding something that worked. After the laborious process I've been through it irks me to hear people spout off about why something like acupuncture "actually" works when it's clear they don't know shit about it, but in their ignorance are all too happy to make sweeping generalizations anyway.

 

[iamblades]

For the love of God, please don't lump acupuncture in the same category as homeopathy which is demonstrably nonsensical. As someone who has been dealing with a chronic pain condition for years it smacks of bullshit. A lot of people have similar criticisms of chiropractors as well, which are equally as ill founded. I will grant that there are those who are overly eager to paint certain methods as a cure all, which nothing is (although to my mind these people are not so different from those who dismiss whole branches of medicine with the wave of a hand). It's also true that within some Eastern disciplines it is sometimes difficult to separate the mysticism from the practical application since they've evolved together as a matter of tradition. I've seen multiple acupunture and chiropractic practitioners however, and the truth is that there are both charlatans and skilled providers, the latter of which can produce tangible results. Although there remain certain gaps in the understanding of these treatments from a clinical standpoint they have had effects on my condition where more mainstream orthopedic approaches failed me. In fact, it was one of the better orthopedists I had that ultimately referred me to my first acupuncturist.

I personally have a strong aversion to needles (I hate them) but have had to resign myself to the fact that acupuncture is one of the only effective treatments I've found for my pain. I have done occupational and physical therapy, electric stimulation, injections, biofeedback and pretty much anything else short of surgery. I have prescription muscle relaxers and analgesics (pills and topical), but only the right mix of chiropractic and acupuncture has turned out to provide any lasting practical benefit.

If it were a simple matter of finding psychological security in just doing something I undoubtedly would've been better off when I was receiving the more conventional treatments than having to reach the end of my tether and branch out into alternative therapies, not to mention cycle between different providers at great expense before finding something that worked. After the laborious process I've been through it irks me to hear people spout off about why something like acupuncture "actually" works when it's clear they don't know shit about it, but in their ignorance are all too happy to make sweeping generalizations anyway.

I don't know much about the science backing up acupuncture, but at least I can see there being a scientific reason for it helping chronic pain conditions.

The problem is that practitioners use completely unscientific methods of diagnosing medical problems, and often use it to treat things where there is no possible scientific explanation of how it might work.

So I will say that acupuncture is a few notches above homeopathy, due to the fact that there is at least a scientific basis to at least theorize how it might work in certain situations. The actual practice of acupuncture remains largely shady and unscientific though, so I wouldn't recommend it in most cases.

 

[Onny]

The ever-awesome Ben Goldacre on acupuncture.

 

[aaaaa0]

Why should I buy expensive relief tablets, when a few cloves of garlic will stop my flu more effectively?

You don't know that for sure. Though one study appears to show some benefit.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/...inkpos=2&log$=relatedreviews&logdbfrom=pubmed

Garlic for the common cold.
Lissiman E, Bhasale AL, Cohen M.

Faculty of Medicine, Dentistry & Health Sciences, University of Western Australia, Crawley, WA, Australia, 6009.

BACKGROUND: Garlic is alleged to have antimicrobial and antiviral properties that relieve the common cold, among other beneficial effects. There is widespread usage of garlic supplements. The common cold is associated with significant morbidity and economic consequences. On average, children have six to eight colds per year, and adults have two to four.

OBJECTIVES: To determine whether garlic (allium sativum) is effective for either the prevention or treatment of the common cold, when compared to placebo, no treatment or other treatments.

SEARCH STRATEGY: We searched the Cochrane Central Register of Controlled Trials (CENTRAL) (The Cochrane Library 2009, issue 1), which includes the Acute Respiratory Infections Group Specialised Register; OLDMEDLINE (1950 to 1965); MEDLINE (January 1966 to March Week 3, 2009); EMBASE (1974 to March 2009); and AMED (1985 to March 2009).

SELECTION CRITERIA: Randomised controlled trials of common cold prevention and treatment comparing garlic with placebo, no treatment or standard treatment.

DATA COLLECTION AND ANALYSIS: Two review authors independently reviewed and selected trials from searches, assessed and rated study quality, and extracted relevant data.

MAIN RESULTS: Of the five trials identified as potentially relevant from our searches, only one trial met the inclusion criteria. This trial randomly assigned 146 volunteer participants to either a garlic supplement (with 180 mg of allicin content) or a placebo (once daily) for 12 weeks. The trial reported 65 occurrences of the common cold in the placebo group compared with 24 in the garlic intervention group (P < 0.001). The number of days of illness was lower in the garlic group compared with the placebo group (111 versus 366). The number of days to recovery was similar in both groups (4.63 versus 5.63). Because only one trial met the inclusion criteria, limited conclusions can be drawn. The trial relied on self-reported episodes of the common cold, but was of reasonable quality in terms of randomisation and allocation concealment. Adverse effects included rash and odour.

AUTHORS' CONCLUSIONS: There is insufficient clinical trial evidence regarding the effects of garlic in preventing or treating the common cold. A single trial suggested that garlic may prevent occurrences of the common cold, but more studies are needed to validate this finding. Claims of effectiveness appear to rely largely on poor quality evidence.

The only thing is, it's possible the trial was unblinded by odour, which means you might not be able to rely on the data.

 

[GrotesqueBeauty]

I don't know much about the science backing up acupuncture, but at least I can see there being a scientific reason for it helping chronic pain conditions.

The problem is that practitioners use completely unscientific methods of diagnosing medical problems, and often use it to treat things where there is no possible scientific explanation of how it might work.

So I will say that acupuncture is a few notches above homeopathy, due to the fact that there is at least a scientific basis to at least theorize how it might work in certain situations. The actual practice of acupuncture remains largely shady and unscientific though, so I wouldn't recommend it in most cases.

It depends on both the condition and general constitution of the person being treated imo. As I said before, nothing is a cure all, but acupuncture seems pretty effective for certain chronic pain syndromes at the very least. My discussions with doctors who have extensive experience with repetitive stress injuries tends to back this up. As a layperson I can only speculate as to why it works. Based on my personal experiences increasing circulation, breaking up adhesions, and retraining nervous responses seem likely, but I can't say with any certainty- I just know it works. I would certainly recommend it to someone with similar symptoms. Of course, finding the right provider is essential, but that 's the case with any form of health care.

On a side note, I wouldn't paint all practitioners with such a broad brush by claiming they use completely unscientific methods to diagnose. I think this is largely a misnomer (although even to the extend it's true, it's not always a sign of being "shady"). Acupuncturists and chiropractors often use the same metrics in diagnosing and writing reports that any of the more traditional doctors I've seen do. In fact, they often have to for insurance purposes. That said, the problem is that chronic pain doesn't always exhibit itself in obvious ways because it's largely a problem with the nervous system, although the initial trigger can be grossly physical. Beyond that it can be tough to nail down though. Nerve conduction studies aren't really sensitive enough to detect early damage, and by the time a condition progresses to where it's measurable it's much more difficult to treat. Even strictly physical problems with tendons/nerves/muscles can be difficult to pinpoint at times if they fall outside the range of standard tests designed to elicit specific responses. Even if you get an MRI much can be overlooked because you will always be in a static position. You can scan in one position then another, but sometimes the problem exists when making motions.

I guess my point is that as valuable as it is modern medical science is not the end all be all. There's no denying the importance of objective analysis, but sometimes it takes an intuitive practitioner to circle in on an issue. I've had illnesses that I would never turn to acupuncture to address, but I've similarly run into bricks walls with traditional medicine. I've even had some hard nosed doctors write me off entirely when I was suffering terribly because my condition didn't sync up with their abstract textbook standard. On the other hand, I've had practitioners who deal in nebulous terms most of GAF would probably scoff at (WTF is Qi supposed to be anyway? Demonstrate it to me or it doesn't exist!) who with great subtlety sensed things that were askew and made a greater difference in 20 minutes than more "respectable" physicians made in months using much invasive methods.

Since this has veered pretty wide of the topic, I just want to reiterate this isn't an argument for homeopathy. I just vehemently disagree with some of the assertions about acupuncture that people are making cooly from afar.

The ever-awesome Ben Goldacre on acupuncture.

From the end of the article:

Treatment

Recommended—Cognitive behaviour therapy, supervised exercise therapy, brief educational interventions, and multidisciplinary (biopsychosocial) treatment, short term use of non-steroidal anti-inflammatory drugs and weak opioids.

Too bad I have tried all of those, and a mix of accupuncture/chiropractic has done more for me than the combined effect of all the above. Not that I have lower back pain, which is what that article specifically addresses.

 

[J.ceaz]

Came into the thread not knowing what homeopathy was but I'm leaving the thread seeing it was greatly disproven.

 

[RumblingRosco]

My friends swear by homeopathic medicine... or, Chaser, anyway. I always thought it was bullshit, not even realizing it was homeopathic until a few months ago. Tried to talk my friends out of it but it's a no-go.

Notice the top right of the box.

Apologies for crappy image quality. Couldn't find a good image online that was legible, so had to take a shitty cell phone pic of my roommate's Chaser.

 

[Gio_CoD]

I took some "homeopathic" remedies for anxiety issues I had a while back, and they worked for me. It very well might have been a placebo effect; I don't give a shit; it worked.

EDIT

Apparently what I took was considered an herbal remedy and not a homeopathic remedy. I guess there is a difference.

 

[LakeEarth]

I couldn't date someone like that.

I've broken up with a girl because didn't believe in evolution. I tried a few times to convince her, and once I realized nothing would work I couldn't take it and dropped her. She wasn't even religious.

Also, James Randi is awesome.

 

[Magni]

my girlfriend is into homeopathy. she was biting her tongue while I was watching some of those vids. she's also going to school for acupuncture right now. I'm not getting laid tonight.

Mine is into homeopathy as well. And since her dad's a doctor/medicine professor/researcher, I can't tell her anything. Even though she's not scientifically knowledgeable at all (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baccalauréat#Baccalaur.C3.A9at_g.C3.A9n.C3.A9ral_streams - she's finishing the "L" series this year..), she won't listen to me (who passed the "S" baccalaureate last year).

I'll have to talk to her about this without getting her too angry :x

 

[Panda1]

Is this more popular in the UK? I haven't really heard much about it in the US.

Why do people get suckered into such bullshit?

They are ill and want some cure?

 

[Gio_CoD]

I've broken up with a girl because didn't believe in evolution. I tried a few times to convince her, and once I realized nothing would work I couldn't take it and dropped her. She wasn't even religious.

Also, James Randi is awesome.

You broke up with a girl because she didn't believe in evolution? You sound like quite the catch.

 

[KHarvey16]

You broke up with a girl because she didn't believe in evolution? You sound like quite the catch.

It's indicative of problems some people might not want to deal with.

 

[Gio_CoD]

It's indicative of problems some people might not want to deal with.

I agree.

 

[LakeEarth]

You broke up with a girl because she didn't believe in evolution? You sound like quite the catch.

I'm a biochemist. It's like an astronaut dating a member of the flat-earth society.

 

[Count Dookkake]

You broke up with a girl because she didn't believe in evolution? You sound like quite the catch.

Or a smart guy with standards who is not looking to have to explain the world in baby terms for fear of offending the girl he is banging. In a way, it is kindness.

 

[Mudkips]

Well placebos can actually do pretty extraordinary things...

We need a cure! We need a cure!

Why, the only cure is bed rest. Anything I give you would only be a placebo.

Where do we get these placebos?

Maybe there's some in this truck!

The crowd pushes over a truck. Boxes labeled "danger killer bees" break open and the bees go everywhere. Everyone panics. One man puts a bee in his mouth.

I'm cured! I mean, ouch!

 

[Foxy Fox 39]

I'm a biochemist. It's like an astronaut dating a member of the flat-earth society.

Or James Carville...(not exactly but you get my point)

Let me give you a couple of examples of why I hate homeopathic and 'natural' medicine.
(*snip)

A woman was teaching natural childbirth, where you didn't need a doctor. Breathing techniques and some massages, etc, according to her were all you needed. The hospital let her teach there as part of an overall program which involved doctors, but she taugh it like that was all you needed to do. She herself got pregnant, and of course did it at home, unassisted. Her baby had a transverse lie, meaning it was lying across her birth canal and needed a c-section or she and the baby would die. She eventually came into the emergency room, where an absolutely brilliant obstetrician performed an emergency c-section on her and saved both her and the baby's life. What did she do after this? Went right back to teaching her course, saying that doctors were useless.

(*snip)

Are you sure? I mean, honestly I don't think we need a doctor. I think today its the best way to go because the majority of people have no knowledge of that area since we have doctors who'll do it anyway. At the end of the day I sincerely think it's quite possible and sane (and I want to say that human/animal history has shown us this) to have natural births with no assistance from doctors.

With something as natural and raw as childbirth; if we were in need of a doctor every time, and all throughout existence I'd say as a species we should be dead. It's only common place now because of ridiculously awesome means of futuristic transportation. Yay, nay?

 

[A.Romero]

This garbage is all over Mexico. That's one major reason why so many more died from swine flu there in comparison to other places.

WAT?

Any proof to this or you are just assuming it happened?

Please provide links, spanish would be fine as well.

 

[Stumpokapow]

You broke up with a girl because she didn't believe in evolution? You sound like quite the catch.

I feel bad for the unfortunate GAFfers who live in countries or areas whereby not recognizing evolution is a socially acceptable choice

 

[levious]

Or James Carville...(not exactly but you get my point)



Are you sure? I mean, honestly I don't think we need a doctor. I think today its the best way to go because the majority of people have no knowledge of that area since we have doctors who'll do it anyway. At the end of the day I sincerely think it's quite possible and sane (and I want to say that human/animal history has shown us this) to have natural births with no assistance from doctors.

With something as natural and raw as childbirth; if we were in need of a doctor every time, and all throughout existence I'd say as a species we should be dead. It's only common place now because of ridiculously awesome means of futuristic transportation. Yay, nay?

not everyone giving birth will need a doctor, but some will, and those that will and choose not to involve a doctor are taking a stupid risk

 

[Vyer]

Or James Carville...(not exactly but you get my point)



Are you sure? I mean, honestly I don't think we need a doctor. I think today its the best way to go because the majority of people have no knowledge of that area since we have doctors who'll do it anyway. At the end of the day I sincerely think it's quite possible and sane (and I want to say that human/animal history has shown us this) to have natural births with no assistance from doctors.

With something as natural and raw as childbirth; if we were in need of a doctor every time, and all throughout existence I'd say as a species we should be dead. It's only common place now because of ridiculously awesome means of futuristic transportation. Yay, nay?

He's giving you an example where a medical condition existed where the need for a doctor probably exponentially raised the chances for both to come out alive; whereas at one point in history that probably would have ended badly. In addition, the woman refused to acknowledge the help that saved their lives.

I think that was the point, not that that sort of natural childbirth couldn't be done without a doctor, obviously.

 

[Vyer]

You broke up with a girl because she didn't believe in evolution? You sound like quite the catch.

What's wrong with not staying in a relationship where you can't get past some fundamental differences in your beliefs?

A person is doing more harm in trying to force something to work.

 

[Kinitari]

Or James Carville...(not exactly but you get my point)



Are you sure? I mean, honestly I don't think we need a doctor. I think today its the best way to go because the majority of people have no knowledge of that area since we have doctors who'll do it anyway. At the end of the day I sincerely think it's quite possible and sane (and I want to say that human/animal history has shown us this) to have natural births with no assistance from doctors.

With something as natural and raw as childbirth; if we were in need of a doctor every time, and all throughout existence I'd say as a species we should be dead. It's only common place now because of ridiculously awesome means of futuristic transportation. Yay, nay?

Do you think the infant and birthing-mother mortality rate is higher or lower than 500 years ago? Why do you think that is?

 

[Shanadeus]

Do you think the infant and birthing-mother mortality rate is higher or lower than 500 years ago? Why do you think that is?

It's global warming man

 

[Zenith]

Are you sure? I mean, honestly I don't think we need a doctor. I think today its the best way to go because the majority of people have no knowledge of that area since we have doctors who'll do it anyway. At the end of the day I sincerely think it's quite possible and sane (and I want to say that human/animal history has shown us this) to have natural births with no assistance from doctors.

With something as natural and raw as childbirth; if we were in need of a doctor every time, and all throughout existence I'd say as a species we should be dead. It's only common place now because of ridiculously awesome means of futuristic transportation. Yay, nay?

...

Wasn't the infant mortality rate something like 1 in 4?

There are no words for how stupid that is.

You broke up with a girl because she didn't believe in evolution? You sound like quite the catch.

on what planet would someone not believing in evolution not be an instant sign to bail out?

 

[BigGreenMat]

My friends swear by homeopathic medicine... or, Chaser, anyway. I always thought it was bullshit, not even realizing it was homeopathic until a few months ago. Tried to talk my friends out of it but it's a no-go.

Notice the top right of the box.

Apologies for crappy image quality. Couldn't find a good image online that was legible, so had to take a shitty cell phone pic of my roommate's Chaser.

Actually Chaser isn't homeopathic despite what the box claims. It uses that to simply skirt a lot of rules and regulations. The 2 main ingredients that make Chasers work are Calcium Carbonate and Carbon, which are an antacid and activated charcoal (this is what they pump your stomach with if you get alcohol poisoning).

 

[Drkirby]

But they can't work out why they obtained the results they got which is the interesting part.

And I can't explain why I got a value of gravity 3 times more powerful then it should of been during twice during a set of 20 trials of a physics lab in my Senior year of high school, it does not make the results more valid.

 

[Parallax Scroll]

Hot damn. I should become a licensed homeopath and make some money.

 

[Always-honest]

yeah, buuuuuuullllll-sjiiiiiiieeeet.

homeopathetic

 

[unreon]

What I've heard is they can't patent existing plants/herbs and therefore can't make money off it.

Another thing I've heard is they want to keep you sick, so you keep coming back for more treatments. Do you make more money from 1 proper treatment or 20 botched treatments?

Pharmaceutical companies are subject to approvals from a government body (e.g. FDA) in order to ensure all drugs coming onto the market fulfill (amongst other things) two very important criteria:
- A pharmaceutical drug MUST demonstrate to work MORE EFFICIENTLY, or as efficiently, than anything else found on the market.
- A pharmaceutical drug MUST demonstrate to be MORE SAFE, or at least as safe, than similar drugs currently on the market.

Do you have any idea just how difficult and hypercompetitive it is to develop a drug that meets FDA approval? In a nutshell, this is the process:

1) Research in great detail how the disease ruins the body, and pick a possible pharmaceutical drug that may combat it . (~2yrs)
--- PATENT APPLIED for the drug (lasts 20yrs) ---
2) Discover a way to engineer, purify, or extract the drug and improve its effectiveness (~2-4yrs)
3) Research exactly what the drug does on the body; i.e. how it is taken into the body, where it is taken to, any chemical interactions on the body (good and bad), and how it is safely removed from the body. (~2-4yrs)
4) Clinical trials on animals, then humans - safety of the drug first, then proof of effectiveness. (~4-5yrs)
5) Register the drug around the world (~1-2yrs)
6) Drug now available on market

Note that the patent lasts only for 20yrs, whilst research into it takes anywhere from 10-15yrs. It also costs somewhere around ~$800 million to fund this research, and not all drugs make it all the way.

Let's just say a company IS intentionally putting out a less effective drug. A competitor would simply release the most effective/safe one, and the first company is pretty much in the bin. Millions of dollars and a decade gone for nothing. Do you honestly think that these honest researchers and doctors are all part of a massive conspiracy to make the world sicker?

People talk about "Western medicine", but a better term is "Science-based medicine". Pharmaceuticals is a rigorous, demanding, highly regulated, competitive, cutthroat industry. If it is on your shelves, bet your ass that it took alot of validity to put it there. Alternative medicine never, ever, undergoes the same standards as science-based medicine. This means Chinese herbal medicine (to answer the guy who asked), acupuncture, chiropractors, reflexologists, psychic surgeries, faith healings, homeopathy, etcetc.

My opinion is simply based off the fact that Chinese herbal medicine has existed for a few hundred years and by now the process of trial-and-error would have allowed some differentiation between what herb is useful or not useful.

Consider the fact that up until a hundred years ago, the average life expectancy of a Chinese person was ~36ish. It's now ~72. Hundreds (thousands maybe?) of years of herbal "medicine" didn't bring them very far.

 

[Jonsend]

When alternative medicines are objectively tested, any active compounds or specific application of therapy identified and understood then synthesised and proven to work in double blind tests against controls using sufficient samples to provide robust statistical evidence then a medicine goes from being alternative to conventional medicine.

If any alternative medicine becomes popular enough for comparative research to be worth doing and there are no published results then you can be pretty sure it is a load of bullshit.

Some people may not want to know that they feel better after visiting a homeopath because of the longer periods of time they spend discussing their issues vs visiting a GP, but some of us would rather know the truth even if it isn't pleasant.

 

[Foxy Fox 39]

He's giving you an example where a medical condition existed where the need for a doctor probably exponentially raised the chances for both to come out alive; whereas at one point in history that probably would have ended badly. In addition, the woman refused to acknowledge the help that saved their lives.

I think that was the point, not that that sort of natural childbirth couldn't be done without a doctor, obviously.

Oh no I get his point; The lady was definitely wrong I'd say and I do believe that a doctor is the better way to go, but I see mine was somewhat missed. I was responding to the very beginning of his 3 or 4 part story where he preludes it with "Let me give you a couple of examples of why I hate homeopathic and 'natural' medicine."

I was trying - and obviously failed by the responses I have gotten - to show that his example should not lead him to hate natural medicine rather the persons ignorance in that specific circumstance because a natural birth (which really does not equate to natural medicine but I'm assuming he's lumping that together) is not entirely something to hate. There are plenty of people who can teach how to do it correctly without the crazy. Excuse me if I'm still interpreting it wrong.

I don't disagree with his main point, I just don't get how that example would make us understand why he hates natural medicine.

 

[Beer Monkey]

You broke up with a girl because she didn't believe in evolution? You sound like quite the catch.

Would you stick with a girl who honestly believes in the tooth fairy and Santa Claus? I'd view her as a child.

What I've heard is they can't patent existing plants/herbs and therefore can't make money off it.

Aspirin doesn't have a patent and there are tons of companies making money selling it, and doctors do not hesitate to recommend it to millions of patients each year.

 

[Bitmap Frogs]

The other day was coming back home from work and on the radio was these program where a bunch of nutjobs were saying that because the universe is made of strings that vibrate and since music is vibrations, using music ailments can be cured.

You know the worse? it was a public radio station. Part of my taxes went off to pay a loudbox for these wackos.

 

[Shanadeus]

The other day was coming back home from work and on the radio was these program where a bunch of nutjobs were saying that because the universe is made of strings that vibrate and since music is vibrations, using music ailments can be cured.

You know the worse? it was a public radio station. Part of my taxes went off to pay a loudbox for these wackos.

I hate the whole "vibrational" new age nonsense, wish they would just vibrate away into another dimension or whatever already.

 

[Sho_Nuff82]

This article that was linked from the Belfast wiki is pretty interesting:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/science/horizon/2002/homeopathytrans.shtml

How the editor of Nature sent a verification team to the lab of a respected colleague who published a paper in their journal on "Water Memory" in 1988, only to find that his results were a total fraud.

Ditto for the Belfast experiments.

 

[Sh1ner]

I am surprised how this stuff isnt outright banned and people go to jail for this. I have an asian background and on my parents radio station, a good 2 hours is dedicated to BS remedies from cooking ingredients (everyday, listeners phone in!). Its not what you use that makes the crap at the end you ingest work but how its heated, cooked and how many stirs you put in.

And they wonder why in my general living area, asians are ill since they shun the doctors,phamicists and modern medicine all together, Its shameful.

 

[Bitmap Frogs]

I hate the whole "vibrational" new age nonsense, wish they would just vibrate away into another dimension or whatever already.

It's amazing however how fast these guys react according to modern fashion and sensibilities and adjust accordingly their bull-dispenser.

 

[BronzeWolf]

I've had this conversation more than enough times:

Girl: "So what do you do?"
Me: "I am a photon optics researcher"
Girl: "Wow What's that?"
Me: "It's very simple actually, we work with light at very minute dimensions and use quantum physics and mechanics to create useful stuff"
Girl: "OMG QUANTUM PHYSICS! THAT'S SO COOL, I heard quantum physics rule the secrets of the energies of our souls in the universe"
Me: "Sigh"

 

[gohepcat]

You broke up with a girl because she didn't believe in evolution? You sound like quite the catch.

You would date a girl who didn't understand 5th grade science?

WTF?