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[patsu]

There are many ways.

Scale with existing core gamer crowd since recent researches actually show smartphone gaming don't affect core gamers that much. It's the casual gamers who changed their mind.

"Combine" handheld with home console so you can take your home console games outside.

Develop new generation of core gamers on top of smartphones and other devices.

PS Vita addresses first two. The third can be evolved from Playstation Suite.

 

[Eusis]

$30 for a pathetic 4gb card is the new "Five hundred and ninety-nine US dollars". This system is dead on arrival.

I dunno, I'd point more at the more expensive cards for that, the ones you actually NEED for storing Vita games. If you have no intention of buying digital games ever, maybe just DLC, then the 4GB card is more than enough and still within the "acceptable loss" price point, especially if there are modest sales on it, and it's not as if that kind of value preposition is new to Playstation devices (hell, comparatively it's leagues ahead of the PS1/PS2/PSP in that regard anyway). However, as a platform for digital purchases it's insane, the iPod Touch STARTS at 8 GB, and unlike the iPod Touch massive games are a big selling feature of the system. At best it's establishing the option now so when cards are reasonably priced it's a serious alternative, rather than only being a worthwhile option to those who want all their games on the handheld itself.

 

[Takao]

Sony recently brought Sony Ericsson into the fold (rather than being the joint venture with an outside company it originally was). I fully expect the innards of Vita to become the innards of a phone.

Sony's also got PlayStation Suite - a marketplace for Android, Vita, and potentially everything from TVs, PS3s, and computers of games that make platform agnostic software. It doesn't have to be games, or applications.

Also, does anybody know if the battery life will last longer when playing older games, music, videos, apps as opposed to the PSVita HD games? I think it would but I don't know the facts.

Yes, battery life will vary depending on what you're doing. Even playing Vita games should vary, as something like Katamari isn't as graphics intensive as Uncharted is.

 

[theBishop]

Well a third option would have been a viable PlayStation Phone, not this half-assed Xperia Play stuff. There are still rumors about that, I think. Failing that I think they would have been smarter to get out of the market altogether.

Here's the thing: I don't want analog sticks on my phone. I do want analog sticks on my game system. That might mean I don't take the game system every single time I leave the house, but who cares?

 

[patsu]

Yap, I think phone games serve a different audience or a slightly different need (Play console games temporarily while on-the-go) -- Unless they build new core gamers dedicated for phone specs and hardware.

Something like the iPad and Fire however may become dedicated mobile entertainment platform. It may pose more serious threat to Vita and DS.

 

[gofreak]

Why do we get so tribal about these things?

I just don't get the split on mobile vs dedicated handheld gaming. It's like neither side will rest until the other no longer exists, because of positions people and egos so strongly identify with.

This will not kill Vita. Sony would make it a non-issue before they let that happen (i.e. just start bundling ones with every system if it really created a lot of purchase friction). It's kind of pathetic that there are people who skirt so close to appearing to WANT it to kill it, though, because they'd already took up a negative opinion on the machine (for whatever reason).

 

[patsu]

Why do we get so tribal about these things?

I just don't get the split on mobile vs dedicated handheld gaming. It's like neither side will rest until the other no longer exists, because of positions people and egos so strongly identify with.

This will not kill Vita. Sony would make it a non-issue before they let that happen (i.e. just start bundling ones with every system if it really created a lot of purchase friction). It's kind of pathetic that there are people who skirt so close to appearing to WANT it to kill it, though, because they'd already took up a negative opinion on the machine (for whatever reason).

It is not wrong to state the potential threat or their personal preferences. Comments will never stop but they are from individual perspectives. If coming from a business perspective, time is actually interesting because it means the vendors get to innovate more. The potential threats may turn out to be huge opportunities for Sony if they use the time well.

It's like when every haters and VoD providers said Blu-ray would be dead on arrival, only NetFlix worked very hard to integrate themselves into as many Blu-ray players as possible, and they edged out while everyone else fell down at that time.

As long as Sony execute well, I think they are in a very good position since they cover all of the needs; but only if Sony focus their resources well.

 

[googleplex]

There are many ways.

Scale with existing core gamer crowd since recent researches actually show smartphone gaming don't affect core gamers that much. It's the casual gamers who changed their mind.

"Combine" handheld with home console so you can take your home console games outside.

Develop new generation of core gamers on top of smartphones and other devices.

PS Vita addresses first two. The third can be evolved from Playstation Suite.

I actually think this is the next natural step for handhelds and hone consoles. If I could get a Vita that could dock into another box to give me nice HD visuals and hi res textures. I wouldn't need a PS4.

 

[Takao]

I actually think this is the next natural step for handhelds and hone consoles. If I could get a Vita that could dock into another box to give me nice HD visuals and hi res textures. I wouldn't need a PS4.

And this is why Sony doesn't have TV-out on Vita!

 

[frequency]

Why do we get so tribal about these things?

I just don't get the split on mobile vs dedicated handheld gaming. It's like neither side will rest until the other no longer exists, because of positions people and egos so strongly identify with.

This will not kill Vita. Sony would make it a non-issue before they let that happen (i.e. just start bundling ones with every system if it really created a lot of purchase friction). It's kind of pathetic that there are people who skirt so close to appearing to WANT it to kill it, though, because they'd already took up a negative opinion on the machine (for whatever reason).

I don't think handheld gamers are trying to split anything. It's the phone people who insist on standing on every single soapbox possible and declaring the end of handhelds because PHONES ARE SO AWESOME.

I'm a handheld gamer. I think phones are great, but they don't give me the gaming experience that I want beyond "waiting in line" type games. I play phone games when I have like 10 minutes of down time. There's a place for both.
I'm pretty sure the handheld gamers are saying both can exist, but the phone side won't stop with the doom and gloom for a market space that they're not even a part of. Like all these podcast people who don't even play games on handhelds talking about how phones make them not want to play handhelds anymore. They never wanted to play games on handhelds in the first place.

If there seems to be any "Us vs Them" mentality it's because, as a handheld gamer, all I ever hear about my preferred method of gaming is that it's dead and I'm a dying breed and phones will eat my children.

I don't know why the conversation isn't about whether companies in the industry can make money. It's always about who is in the top spot... like everything else is a failure. As long as it's making money, it's a success.

Anyway, I'm way off topic now.

 

[Zoramon089]

Why do we get so tribal about these things?

I just don't get the split on mobile vs dedicated handheld gaming. It's like neither side will rest until the other no longer exists, because of positions people and egos so strongly identify with.

This will not kill Vita. Sony would make it a non-issue before they let that happen (i.e. just start bundling ones with every system if it really created a lot of purchase friction). It's kind of pathetic that there are people who skirt so close to appearing to WANT it to kill it, though, because they'd already took up a negative opinion on the machine (for whatever reason).

I have NEVER seen a handheld gamer wanting mobile gaming to die but the reverse occurs frequently

 

[witchedwiz]

no offense but with this.... non-aggressive pricing line, i'm mightly tempted to call off my preorder..

 

[patsu]

I actually think this is the next natural step for handhelds and hone consoles. If I could get a Vita that could dock into another box to give me nice HD visuals and hi res textures. I wouldn't need a PS4.

If I have my way, I would integrate Vita into every gaming platform from PS3/PSN to PC to OnLive. It is cool to be able to play PC games to Vita too.

And this is why Sony doesn't have TV-out on Vita!

Nah... if Vita had a video out, I could play it with HMZ-T1. Would have bought that one already !

 

[Eusis]

I have NEVER seen a handheld gamer wanting mobile gaming to die but the reverse occurs frequently

I just don't want mobile gaming to displace traditional handhelds. They definitely both have their purpose, and inevitably there'll be overlap, but mobile gaming eliminating traditional handhelds would signify how any middle ground is being eroded away in favor of the extremes of huge AAA games and smaller indie (or just cheaply made) games. Stuff like Radiant Historia would probably struggle to make ends meet if it debuted on iOS, but is too low end to fly as a console title. Admittedly how high end the PSVita is may erode that middle ground anyway, but it seems like midrange games have a higher chance of success there at least.

 

[Omega]

I hope everyone is getting angry and talking about how much Sony sucks for this and their "proprietary" accessories.

Microsoft's been getting so much hate for their overpriced hard drives, Sony better get the same treatment.

 

[Deadly Monk]

Games on phones suck. They distract me while I'm waiting in an office or when I'm in the bathroom. They usually lack any depth.

This won't stop me from getting the system, I'll stick with the 4gb until the 32gb drops in price (which it will). It's too awesome of a system to pass up and I've always wanted a portable that comes to close what I look for in my PC/console games.

 

[DangerousDave]

I'm still shocked about how the people is freaking out about the memory card prices.

Things went from "$250 is a great price" to "real price is over 400$ if you buy a game and the most expensive memory card".

Come on. PSP had a 32mb card, if I'm not mistaken, at launch. Enought for some saves, but not even for 5 songs, if you wanted to use any of the advertised multimedia functionalities of the console. Even the most expensive memory cards on the market, that costed over 100€, didn't allow to put in more than one movie in low bitrate enconding. And games were expensive.

And what happened? The most expensive memory sticks sold out in a lot of places. I had to dig in a lot of places until I found a decent memory stick.

http://news.cnet.com/PSP-owners-gob...3-5671092.html?part=rss&tag=5671092&subj=news

Yes, not having a small inner memory to store saves (or a small memory card bundled with the console) is a bad move. But the ratio quality-price is still so high with all the other features that the 30$ of a 4Gb memory card (enough to go on the first months) is a non issue.

And, as someone that paid over 100€ for a 1Gb memory card at launch of the PSP, I can tell that paying 120$ for the 32Gb is a stupid move (unless you have too much money to spend). You'll have to clean the fridge often, but in a couple of years you'll be able to buy a 64Gb for 50$.

 

[Gary Whitta]

I have NEVER seen a handheld gamer wanting mobile gaming to die but the reverse occurs frequently

There's no tribalism in my argument, FWIW. I rarely play games on my phone and I own a PSP and a DS so it's not like I have a dog in this fight. I just think it's inevitable that the dedicated handheld market is going to continue to shrink, the same way the market for dedicated MP3 players and cameras is shrinking. The more capable smartphones become the more they undermine all these dedicated devices.

 

[theBishop]

Why do we get so tribal about these things?

I just don't get the split on mobile vs dedicated handheld gaming. It's like neither side will rest until the other no longer exists, because of positions people and egos so strongly identify with.

This will not kill Vita. Sony would make it a non-issue before they let that happen (i.e. just start bundling ones with every system if it really created a lot of purchase friction). It's kind of pathetic that there are people who skirt so close to appearing to WANT it to kill it, though, because they'd already took up a negative opinion on the machine (for whatever reason).

I actually don't feel tribal about this. I like mobile games, and I definitely want cooler ones in the future. The more good games, the better. But is either mobile (phone/tablet) form factor really suited for the kinds of games most of us like to play? Maybe some day, but definitely not yet. So as long as there's a physical reason why I can't play Elder Scrolls or Just Cause properly on a smartphone, I'm still interested in a dedicated portable game system.

 

[Deadly Monk]

I actually don't feel tribal about this. I like mobile games, and I definitely want cooler ones in the future. The more good games, the better. But is either mobile (phone/tablet) form factor really suited for the kinds of games most of us like to play? Maybe some day, but definitely not yet. So as long as there's a physical reason why I can't play Elder Scrolls or Just Cause properly on a smartphone, I'm still interested in a dedicated portable game system.

Sense, you make it.

 

[theBishop]

I actually think this is the next natural step for handhelds and hone consoles. If I could get a Vita that could dock into another box to give me nice HD visuals and hi res textures. I wouldn't need a PS4.

The 360 controller (Xinput) has been established for 6 years as an input for PC games, and Valve is going to roll out a gamepad-accessible "Big Picture Mode" interface for Steam (hopefully) sometime this decade. At that point, what's stopping a PC manufacturer from putting an Intel PC into a handheld form factor with embedded 360 controls? The thing boots Windows8 and launches right into Steam. Now you've got a huge percentage of the back PC catalog available on the go. The low power intel and amd chips are getting close to that point.

 

[SLEEPS7ALK3R]

I don't understand how millions of people go gaga over stupidly overpriced Apple products (Oh my god it's SO thin, this thing's amazing, have my money) and then there's others who get outraged because arguably the best handheld machine is not %100 convinient.

Seriously someone tell what the fuck warrants the iPad's popularity and financial success AND spells doom for the handheld gaming market? Electronics companies need just stop letting Apple dictate the pace of the market and following everything they do for Apple to stop being the world's most innovative etc, etc...

It'd be so great for the handheld gaming market if the companies with the best products knew how to manage and market them. Poor marketing and bad calls leaves second best to rule.

 

[patsu]

Games on phones suck. They distract me while I'm waiting in an office or when I'm in the bathroom. They usually lack any depth.

For many handheld games yes. There are good ones that are worth my time playing though. They are not that dissimilar from some PSN games.

There's no tribalism in my argument, FWIW. I rarely play games on my phone and I own a PSP and a DS so it's not like I have a dog in this fight. I just think it's inevitable that the dedicated handheld market is going to continue to shrink, the same way the market for dedicated MP3 players and cameras is shrinking. The more capable smartphones become the more they undermine all these dedicated devices.

Yes and no. As time progress, we may see convergent devices specialized in different areas to suit particular tasks better. e.g., phones going more social apps and games, tablets settling down with more heavyweight entertainment and enterprise + school apps, etc. You can do pretty much everything on all these devices but their battery life, price, performance, software library, user base may differentiate them. In that sense, it's like we have games for PC MMO, web, consoles today, but bigger because everyone play more games. The user base may expand instead of shrink (More people play games). This is just the transition period where people try to figure out where they are.

We may also see gaming console go virtual like PS Suite having a software run-time instead of purely hardware based, or XBL like network platform, or OnLive type. The future is very much open ended.

 

[firehawk12]

Here's an interesting question - isn't it smarter to buy Vita games digitally because the next system - assuming there will be one - probably won't support Vita carts AND the new proprietary memory cards?

 

[Agent X]

The option is there for on-cart saves, but most publishers don't want to pay for your storage so they push the cost onto the consumer instead and force you to buy a memory card.

It's a lot like how Nintendo handled the N64, except that whereas Nintendo swallowed the cost of on-cart saves for 99% of their output, Sony are choosing to not be as kind.

It's a shame, considering that a few notable Sony games like Uncharted and Hot Shots Golf are leading the pack for games that require a separate memory card, along with a relatively small group (so far) of third-party games.

Really, Sony should have made onboard save memory mandatory for their game cartridges. It's not too late for SCEA and SCEE to change this for their regions; I would strongly recommend that they do this in order to minimize customer frustration and the backlash that would soon follow. They don't have to provide space for DLC or patches if they don't want (those can be stored on a card), but at bare minimum every game should have the ability to save a player's progress out of the box.

Failing that I think they would have been smarter to get out of the market altogether. At a time when every single piece of research shows people deserting handhelds in favor of increasingly impressive smartphone games and even Nintendo stumbles out of the gate with 3DS I don't think it's a smart play to bring an even more expensive premium dedicated handheld to market.

Well, if dedicated portable video game machines are a dying breed, and PS Vita is one of the last of that breed, then I'll be satisfied with it going out with a bang like that.

In my opinion, the current crop of smartphones and tablets are still not well suited to handle a wide range of games. It's not like the PDA or MP3 player market, where a smartphone could reasonably act as a full substitute for either of these devices. Until the day comes where smartphones or tablets could completely replace a dedicated portable video game system, there will still be room for devices like the 3DS and PS Vita.

 

[patsu]

Just bundle the memory card with the system and we'll be fine.

What drives me crazy is not the memory cards. They are rather "easy" to solve by the platform holder. I hate it when good Japanese games didn't make it over here, like Gundam Extreme Vs; or PSP games didn't make it to PS3 like Valkyria Chronicles 2 and 3. They should figure out their localization and platform story next gen. Like let users/prosumers do it if the companies can't afford to.

 

[Zoramon089]

Just bundle the memory card with the system and we'll be fine.

Lol, if they could they would...the system is as cheap as they CAN make it. That's why they're trying to recoup some of those costs with mem card prices

There's no tribalism in my argument, FWIW. I rarely play games on my phone and I own a PSP and a DS so it's not like I have a dog in this fight. I just think it's inevitable that the dedicated handheld market is going to continue to shrink, the same way the market for dedicated MP3 players and cameras is shrinking. The more capable smartphones become the more they undermine all these dedicated devices.

Mmm, the situations are pretty different I think. For one, dedicated mp3 players are starting to be matched in functionality by other devices, as most of their benefits are software related. With camera's, the high end camera audience is already not very large, especially as dedicated digital cameras, ones special enough to distinguish from devices with cameras, cost around the same if not more than these devices. However when it comes to dedicated handhelds....

The audience of "on the go" gamers is incredibly large. It's not the same as the audience of dedicated cameras. In addition, handheld systems offer HARDWARE features that currently aren't being matched and probably won't ever be in other mobile devices (namely buttons and sticks). You might claim these aren't a big deal but to gamers (a market that is always growing) the difference is enormous. That separates them from the dedicated mp3 analogy

 

[patsu]

Lol, if they could they would...the system is as cheap as they CAN make it. That's why they're trying to recoup some of those costs with mem card prices

They can over time. In fact, they already have bundles that include memory card (and other stuff) at launch. People like me will want bigger cards after a short while. Those standalone memory card prices would apply more to folks who upgrade.

As I said earlier in the thread, Sony should focus on unique Vita experience (not just a few games, but for all Vita games). People will shuffle and make do if the contents are awesome.

 

[sixteen-bit]

Here's an interesting question - isn't it smarter to buy Vita games digitally because the next system - assuming there will be one - probably won't support Vita carts AND the new proprietary memory cards?

If you're thinking like that, why buy a vita at all? Just wait for the Vita 2 and download the vita games you missed on the PSN store in 2017.

 

[firehawk12]

If you're thinking like that, why buy a vita at all? Just wait for the Vita 2 and download the vita games you missed on the PSN store in 2017.

Well, if people are bitching about their PSP games being dead, now would be a good time to get ahead of the curve. Given that the next system might actually be digital only, who knows?

 

[theBishop]

There's no tribalism in my argument, FWIW. I rarely play games on my phone and I own a PSP and a DS so it's not like I have a dog in this fight. I just think it's inevitable that the dedicated handheld market is going to continue to shrink, the same way the market for dedicated MP3 players and cameras is shrinking. The more capable smartphones become the more they undermine all these dedicated devices.

Ok, but just as you say the digital camera market is shrinking, the dSLR market is actually growing. So even though the huge, "good enough" crowd is moving away from dedicated cameras, the number of enthusiasts looking for a better experience (and spending a bit more money) is getting larger.

I think you can make a similar analogy with games.

 

[twinturbo2]

I'm about to place an additional order with Gamestop for the PS Vita Starter Kit and a spare USB cable, but there are two listings for the Starter Kit, one for $24.99 and another for $29.99.

If I go for the lower one, will they honor it if they decide that $29.99 is the right price? Wario, a little help here...

EDIT: Went for the lower one, and also grabbed the spare USB cable and a console dock. Worst case scenario is they cancel on me for the lower one and make me pay $5, no big deal...

 

[patsu]

Well, if people are bitching about their PSP games being dead, now would be a good time to get ahead of the curve. Given that the next system might actually be digital only, who knows?

Things are going to get mixed up with the rise of so many devices.

The content industry is also trying to get ahead of the demand. If they truly put their heart and soul to something like UltraViolet, we would get disc based media and network media interchangeably, perhaps with an incremental fee for buying both; but there should be no barrier between them.

 

[mrklaw]

I wonder if mobile gaming is fitting with gamers getting older? As they have less free time to game, smartphones are enough for them.

As for vita, I understand the frustration from those considering large memory cards for digital content. But declaring it dead over a $30 memory card seems a little hyperbolic

 

[patsu]

I wonder if mobile gaming is fitting with gamers getting older? As they have less free time to game, smartphones are enough for them.

That's somewhat true for me. It applies to home consoles as well. But I still don't game that much on smartphones although I like Plants vs Zombies a lot. I find that I watch videos or surf the net on the phone more for short breaks. I still find time to play the longer ones at odd hours, on a big enough screen.

It's a shame Vita has no video out. But if they let me play Vita games on PS3 when I'm indoor, and PS3 on Vita when I'm outdoor, that's fine too.

 

[Alligatorjandro]

So if you buy the 3G, a 32gb card and 2 games that could be like $500.

 

[Respawn]

This is why I don't buy Sony products anymore. I just got a 32 gig SD class 10 card 20MB/s speeds for $30 bucks. Sony wants me to pay almost 4 times that ?

You do understand this isn't the same memory as the SD Class 10 right? No you didn't or you wouldn't have wrote that. There is a reason they want their stuff to be proprietary.
I'm not arguing price here.

 

[patsu]

So if you buy the 3G, a 32gb card and 2 games that could be like $500.

Sounds about right. I read somewhere that you can roughly fit 10 games on a 32Gb card based on average Vita game size.

If those 2 games are card-based, then the bundled 4Gb memory card should be sufficient for game saves. But you'll have to shuffle for space for DD games. We should be able to redownload deleted games from PSN Store.

I probably will get a 8Gb or 16Gb one after some tryouts.

 

[firehawk12]

You do understand this isn't the same memory as the SD Class 10 right? No you didn't or you wouldn't have wrote that. There is a reason they want their stuff to be proprietary.
I'm not arguing price here.

Other than copy protection, is the tech so drastically different that they would need to cost so much more?

 

[DangerousDave]

Sounds about right. I read somewhere that you can roughly fit 10 games on a 32Gb card based on average Vita game size.

If those 2 games are card-based, then the bundled 4Gb memory card should be sufficient for game saves. But you'll have to shuffle for space for DD games. We should be able to redownload deleted games from PSN Store.

I probably will get a 8Gb or 16Gb one after some tryouts.

Well, you probably won't fit 10 copies of Uncharted Vita in a 32Gb card but you can expect most of the games being between 1 and 2 Gb.

Also, you can redownload deleted games from PSN Store.

 

[twinturbo2]

Can you store Vita games on a PS3 like you can with the PSP games? Just wondering...

 

[yurinka]

Other than copy protection, is the tech so drastically different that they would need to cost so much more?

I would say speed loading and saving, search speed, latency or stuff like that. And well, they need money to pay the old PS3 looses and earthquake stuff.

 

[Vamphuntr]

You could wait for knockoffs or buy the cards when they are on sale...

 

[patsu]

Can you store Vita games on a PS3 like you can with the PSP games? Just wondering...

No idea. I'll probably complain if we cannot. 8^P

 

[Salaadin]

might be a silly question but is there any chance the vita ends up with ps3-esque game installs requiring a memory card? Ill probably only get the 4gb card at launch and just buy physical but I also want to make sure it lasts and doesn't get loaded with install data.

 

[DangerousDave]

might be a silly question but is there any chance the vita ends up with ps3-esque game installs requiring a memory card? Ill probably only get the 4gb card at launch and just but physical but I also want to make sure it lasts and doesn't get loaded with install data.

As far as I saw with Media Go in PSP, no.

 

[twinturbo2]

No idea. I'll probably complain if we cannot. 8^P

I'll complain, too. I don't want to deal with the PC software.

 

[patsu]

might be a silly question but is there any chance the vita ends up with ps3-esque game installs requiring a memory card? Ill probably only get the 4gb card at launch and just buy physical but I also want to make sure it lasts and doesn't get loaded with install data.

According to here:
http://psp.about.com/od/hardwarefirmware/a/The-Tech-Of-Ps-Vita-Nvg-Cards.htm

An NVG card is a memory unit designed specifically for use with the PS Vita. Retail games will come on these cards, in the same way that they came on UMD for the PSP. The cards are comparable to Nintendo DS/3DS Game Cards in that they will each hold one game and its save data, however game updates (like patches) will also be saved directly to the NVG card. This means you can use the same game card in a different PS Vita system, and not have to download any game updates again.

I don't know where she got the info from. You'll need to validate the info with somewhere official; or wait for someone knowledgeable to reply.

If she's correct, then no, game patches go into the Game card, not the memory card.

 

[mattiewheels]

My new strategy is to wait for the white Vita, by then the mem cards will have sd adapters, the games I want will be out, and hey, maybe the price'll have dropped.

 

[sixteen-bit]

My new strategy is to wait for the white Vita, by then the mem cards will have sd adapters, the games I want will be out, and hey, maybe the price'll have dropped.

Waiting for the white Vita is my strategy too. I'll probably import it from Japan like I did my Ceramic White PSP-3000 back in September 2005 (White PSPs didn't come out in the west until what, 2008? I predict it'll be a similar situation with Vita).