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PS1 (PSX) - Worst Aging Video Game System to Date?

SolidSnakex

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Actually Jumping Flash was one of the more interesting early PS1 games to me and I do remember being pretty damn impressed by it, but to say it laid the ground work for Mario 64, a far more complex and varied experience, not to mention you're comparing a first person game to a third person one, with none of the 3D camera considerations is a highly tenuous claim.
Then take Spyro or Croc for example, as Krejlooc mentioned. You even had Ape Escape eventually. The PSone was more than capable of a high quality 3D platformer and there were many examples of it.

If anything i'd argue that the PSone became a better 3D console once the Dual Shock hit, because with that developers started laying the ground work to properly control 3D games, both first and third person. We don't use buttons to control cameras or aiming anymore. We use an analog stick.
 

halfbeast

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back in the day ps1 games had some incredibly strong gravity. I once played tekken 2 and pandemonium for old times sake, it felt like I was glued to the ground! things have definitely gotten faster over the time and those old games feel like they're in slow motion.
 

Krejlooc

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Is there any 2D action platformer on N64? Looking at your list I'm not seeing any. Those are the types of games I enjoy picking up and playing still today.
Do you consider MK: Mythologies to be an action platformer?

and by 2D, I assume you discount 3D backgrounds?
 

dark10x

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Do you consider MK: Mythologies to be an action platformer?

and by 2D, I assume you discount 3D backgrounds?
Well, I wouldn't discount 3D backgrounds *IF* the game can run at 60 fps (ala Klonoa).

That's kind of the critical thing here. I always thought Kirby 64 was 60 fps but after finally getting a hold of it was disappointed to learn that it's not.

Is MK: Mythologies any good?
 

Krejlooc

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Then take Spyro or Croc for example, as Krejlooc mentioned. You even had Ape Escape eventually. The PSone was more than capable of a high quality 3D platformer and there were many examples of it.

If anything i'd argue that the PSone became a better 3D console once the Dual Shock hit, because with that developers started laying the ground work to properly control 3D games, both first and third person. We don't use buttons to control cameras or aiming anymore. We use an analog stick.
I like Croc, because it's the rare example of the Saturn doing a Mario 64 style game. Same with Ninpen Manmaru:





I love games like these because it's obvious the PSX and Saturn weren't designed for games like Mario 64, yet, through really clever design, they were still able to produce those kinds of games (although of much poorer quality than Mario 64).

I like that era of gaming, where the systems were drastically different from one another. It's interesting to see these systems try to tackle types of games they weren't designed around. It'd be neat to see the N64 do some more Resident Evil stuff, throwing a lot of polygons at just a few models on screen at once.

Is MK: Mythologies any good?
LMAO no.
 

mattp

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Resident Evil has actually aged pretty well. The controls are not bad, that's how it's meant to be played.

Now stuff like Syphon Filter, that has aged bad because this kind of gameplay has been done infinitely better by now.
what i find funny is how everyone complains about the tank controls in classic RE when re4 is almost literally the same exact tank control scheme
the difference is where the camera is placed

i totally get how having a fixed camera makes controlling the game unwieldy for people, but the controls are not BAD. they work exactly as intended.

the "problem" people have is with the camera. and i get that regardless of what i just said, the end result is its tough to control for a lot of people. but it kind of annoys me when people constantly talk about how bad the controls are in those games
 

Krejlooc

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what i find funny is how everyone complains about the tank controls in classic RE when re4 is almost literally the same exact tank control scheme
the difference is where the camera is placed

i totally get how having a fixed camera makes controlling the game unwieldy for people, but the controls are not BAD. they work exactly as intended.

the "problem" people have is with the camera. and i get that regardless of what i just said, the end result is its tough to control for a lot of people. but it kind of annoys me when people constantly talk about how bad the controls are in those games
Besides, if people have a problem with tank controls, the N64 version of Resident Evil 2 has an option to remove them (so it plays more like silent hill 2, actually). Similarly, if people like that kind of game, Deep Fear is a very similar and well done game on the saturn, and when played with a 3D controller, it lacks tank controls as well.
 

sörine

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Fair enough. I don't have access to Japanese compatible N64 hardware so I haven't delved into those titles but I did spend a while attempting to procure N64 titles that fit what I was looking for and came away super disappointed.

Still, talking about 2D games is strange as there are so few. Most of the NTSC-U games I've looked into use rendered sprites.

Is there any 2D action platformer on N64? Looking at your list I'm not seeing any. Those are the types of games I enjoy picking up and playing still today.
I can see that, a lot of the 2D stuff stayed Japan only for various reasons. And that's true of all consoles then really, not just N64. I mean how would Saturn fare if we disqualified any Japan only releases for consideration?

As far as 2D platformers the only sprite based ones I can think of are Mischief Makers and Yoshi Story. If you include polygonal games then there's also Kirby 64 and Goemon's Great Adventure. I think all four are pretty good, but not great. That's all I can think of though.
 

Renpatsu

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I liked the PS2 Ridge Racer game that followed your trek through a global racing league. It had a rich story campaign and was like a mix between Gran Turismo and Ridge Racer. The name escapes me at the moment.

It definitely built on and expanded on ideas from R4.

R4 on Vita is great btw
Since no one else chimed in, that game was R: Racing Evolution.

The story was a bit too ludicrous at times unlike R4's more subtly grounded approach and unlike R4 it lacked a strong art direction, but nonetheless it was an interesting approach if viewed against its relation to the rest of the Ridge Racer games.
 

hipgnosis

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So the PS1 has so many gorgeous 2D games that the N64 doesn't have. There's really incredibly many of 2D classics. Also the best 3D games are on par with the best N64 games, for example Crash, Spyro, MGS, Wipeout, RR Type 4. The JRPG library is huge and they are timeless. Rhythm games like Parappa, Lammer Jammy, Vib Ribbon etc. don't really age. There are also shmups, 2D and 3D that hold up incredibly well. Fighting games etc. well you get the point.

The library of the console itself is so huge that there really isn't competition with the consoles of the era. Sure there are games that haven't aged well, but there is just so much stuff on the console that hold up incredible well even today that it is just nonsense to claim that this console has "aged" the worst.
 

mattp

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Besides, if people have a problem with tank controls, the N64 version of Resident Evil 2 has an option to remove them (so it plays more like silent hill 2, actually). Similarly, if people like that kind of game, Deep Fear is a very similar and well done game on the saturn, and when played with a 3D controller, it lacks tank controls as well.
and i actually prefer to leave the "tank" style controls on for silent hill 2
i think having up be relative to your character rather than relative to the camera angle is so much more intuitive
there's nothing more annoying than holding right to run across the screen and then when the camera angle snaps to a new position you're running down(or any other direction)
 

Delt31

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Some interesting responses in here.....I'll comment on some but ones like NES didn't age well? Wow - that's just insanity.

My first system was NES so I can't speak for video game systems before that era but considering the market has only significantly increased after 1980, I would assume the NES and after generations are best to compare since their impact on the population is that much greater.

I'm coming at this from graphics but mostly gameplay which is what keeps me playing games anyway. I don't want to get into which system had better graphics but bottom line, do I want to play these games and do they still provide enjoyment similar to when I first played them. When revisiting PS1 in particular the answer was a resounding no. Exceptions include Crash and SOTN (will is prob the best revisit I've had thus far). I'm also valuing the library of "classics" that the system was known for. It would be nonsensical to say b/c game X still plays great, the system aged perfectly fine. I'm taking the majority of games I owned in the past (which are generally the big hitters) and comparing those to games I've owned on other systems and comparing the gaming experience.
 

Krejlooc

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sörine;120027064 said:
I mean how would Saturn fare if we disqualified any Japan only releases for consideration?
Still way better than its contemporaries, thanks to games like Legend of Oasis, Street Fighter Alpha 2, Night Warriors, Astal, Sega Ages, etc.

sörine;120027535 said:
Oh man, I've never seen Ninpen Mannaru before but now I think I need to play it.
It's fools gold. Great engine, outstanding visuals for the Saturn... but essentially no gameplay. There are enemies but they don't attack unless you run into them. You have no form of attack what-so-ever. There are power ups but they do things like speed you up, nothing offensive.

The goal of the game is to run to the goal of each small world before the 10 minute time limit is up. Some of the levels feature tricky platforming, but over all the game feels like a huge wasted opportunity. It kind of reminds me of a very boring version of the captain toad levels from Mario 3D World. Only without the enjoyment that comes from those levels.
 

dark10x

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sörine;120027064 said:
I can see that, a lot of the 2D stuff stayed Japan only for various reasons. And that's true of all consoles then really, not just N64. I mean how would Saturn fare if we disqualified any Japan only releases for consideration?

As far as 2D platformers the only sprite based ones I can think of are Mischief Makers and Yoshi Story. If you include polygonal games then there's also Kirby 64 and Goemon's Great Adventure. I think all four are pretty good, but not great. That's all I can think of though.
You misunderstand me at this point (ignore the original statement about pre-rendered sprites as that was in the wrong), I'm simply talking about what I currently have the capacity to play. I own a JP and US Saturn but only a US N64. I'm actually interested in getting my hands on this stuff and was hoping I missed something.

Even still, there were a fair number of 2D action games on Saturn released in the US but obviously many more in Japan. Same deal with PSX, of course.

Still way better than its contemporaries, thanks to games like Legend of Oasis, Street Fighter Alpha 2, Night Warriors, Astal, Sega Ages, etc.
Not to mention multi-plats that were better on Saturn like Megaman X4, Megaman 8, Rayman, etc. Beautiful games.
 
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Personally find that plenty of PS1 games aged great. The OP named some of the first games out on the thing, and even back then they were not great gameplay and visually. I loved Twisted Metal, Resident Evil and Ridge Racer... sequels. All the games he named were AWFUL in their first iterations but their sequels blew them out of the water. RE2 still holds up well, R4 is amazing, and Twisted Metal 2 is great.

That's visually and controls wise imo.
 

Krejlooc

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Personally find that plenty of PS1 games aged great. The OP named some of the first games out on the thing, and even back then they were not great gameplay and visually. I loved Twisted Metal, Resident Evil and Ridge Racer... sequels. All the games he named were AWFUL in their first iterations but their sequels blew them out of the water. RE2 still holds up well, R4 is amazing, and Twisted Metal 2 is great.

That's visually and controls wise imo.
I think the first resident evil holds up well. Obviously the remake is superior, though.
 
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I'd say the N64 has aged slightly worse. The only thing worse than ugly, chunky polygons is blurry, ugly, chunky polygons.

Each console has its gems, but I'd say on the whole, N64 games are uglier.
 

sörine

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Still way better than its contemporaries, thanks to games like Legend of Oasis, Street Fighter Alpha 2, Night Warriors, Astal, Sega Ages, etc.
But we'd lose Vampire Savior, SFA3, Super Tempo, Silhouette Mirage, Princess Crown, D&D Collection, Sokyugurentai, Leynos 2, Lunar SSS and so many other gorgeous 2D games. So way better than the competition but still only half as good as it could be.
 

Balb

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I'd say the N64 has aged slightly worse. The only thing worse than ugly, chunky polygons is blurry, ugly, chunky polygons.

Each console has its gems, but I'd say on the whole, N64 games are uglier.
I think the first and second party N64 games hold up very nicely.
 

Bobby_Sullivan

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The N64 was more powerful than the PSX. Furthermore, most 3D PSX titles opted to go for a "realistic" aesthetic with a very muted color pallet. So yes, most PSX games look like absolute shit.

As far as tank controls in Resident Evil, they were a actually a factor that added to the experience for me. I was 8 years old, I couldn't make shit out because of the shit aesthetic and it's extremely difficult to move, Resident Evil 2 scared the shit out of me!

I love my PSX and still play my games today...
 
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I think the first and second party N64 games hold up very nicely.
I agree. But that's a small portion of the whole.

Nintendo have always been wizards with their own hardware. Others just kinda tend to shovel crap usually. Which helps explain the difference in first and third party software on Wii and WiiU.
 

Krejlooc

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The N64 was more powerful than the PSX. Furthermore, most 3D PSX titles opted to go for a "realistic" aesthetic with a very muted color pallet. So yes, most PSX games look like absolute shit.

As far as tank controls in Resident Evil, they were a actually a factor that added to the experience for me. I was 8 years old, I couldn't make shit out because of the shit aesthetic and it's extremely difficult to move, Resident Evil 2 scared the shit out of me!

I love my PSX and still play my games today...
 

Azure Wolf

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Then take Spyro or Croc for example, as Krejlooc mentioned. You even had Ape Escape eventually. The PSone was more than capable of a high quality 3D platformer and there were many examples of it.

If anything i'd argue that the PSone became a better 3D console once the Dual Shock hit, because with that developers started laying the ground work to properly control 3D games, both first and third person. We don't use buttons to control cameras or aiming anymore. We use an analog stick.

I agree with much of what you've said, and the Dual Shock definitely was superior to C buttons, but when and why did Sony release an analogue stick for for PS1 at all?

They did it because Mario 64 set the bar and revolutionalised 3D gaming on consoles to the extent that to continue without it as a standard, was simply not an option. So 5 months after Mario 64 released, Sony began their habit of adopting Nintendo control innovations, and to their credit often improving them too, as they did with the dual analogues.

The problem was that PS1 graphics tech dated terribly even after 3 years and they were always behind the curve technically in terms of 3D games.

Though I will agree they were still good games in their own right (and Ape Escape is a great game, best PS1 platformer IMO) they were often very basic visually compared to what was possible on other platforms, and with most of them being released in the late 90's looking pretty terrible by comparison to PC and DC games at the time.

It's to that extent that I'll say they weren't quality 3D games in terms of visuals, but they can still be considered good games for the console. Whereas the N64 flew out the blocks with highly innovative and complex 3D games as an integral part of an overall design concept of 3D gaming as standard.

Again, to be fair the dualshock did help allow for PS1 to evolve and have a really strong end of lifespan, with many more games released for it than the N64 at that time especially 1998-2000.

Also I still don't think N64 games hold up that well today either, my personal cut off point for truly good graphics on 3D consoles is the DC, but the N64 was still a total pioneer in terms of complex 3D game design on consoles.
 

dark10x

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I agree. But that's a small portion of the whole.

Nintendo have always been wizards with their own hardware. Others just kinda tend to shovel crap usually. Which helps explain the difference in first and third party software on Wii and WiiU.
Yep. I actually think Super Mario 64 was the best looking game released on N64 despite being a launch title.

It's far and away the most BALANCED title in that it features clean aesthetics that feel as if they were designed with the limits of the system in mind while operating at a smooth frame-rate. The mix of simple, clean textures and flat shaded polygons is great. They didn't overshoot the technology with their visual design.
 
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Yep. I actually think Super Mario 64 was the best looking game released on N64 despite being a launch title.

It's far and away the most BALANCED title in that it features clean aesthetics that feel as if they were designed with the limits of the system in mind while operating at a smooth frame-rate. The mix of simple, clean textures and flat shaded polygons is great. They didn't overshoot the technology with their visual design.
Agree 100%. To this day, I can look at Mario 64 without cringing (unlike many other games from that time period) because its "simplistic" design aesthetic has aged incredibly well.
 
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I'd have to say the DS wasn't bad at launch, but I think it's great Nintendo went from N64/PS1 visuals on that machine to something that rivals the Wii with the 3DS.
I may be the only one that like DS 3d, specially in spirit tracks and final fantasy 3
 

vagabondarts

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Since no one else chimed in, that game was R: Racing Evolution.

The story was a bit too ludicrous at times unlike R4's more subtly grounded approach and unlike R4 it lacked a strong art direction, but nonetheless it was an interesting approach if viewed against its relation to the rest of the Ridge Racer games.
Yes! That was it. Yeah it was also hard as crap.
Took me a while to beat that one
 

Jayx77

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When I play them on a 14" Wega (PS2 hooked up with component cables), I think they still look pretty darn good.

When I play on my PS3 and plasma TV, the flaws really show through, even with whatever post-processing the PS3 does to help.
 

Gamesadict

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Those screenshots are the game running in an emulator, the art was designed around the low resolution and forced dithering of the original Playstation.

3D on the Playstation worked best in dark environments where details are lost within the darkness and the dithering, creating a very atmospheric look that is lost when rendered in enhanced emulators. For example here are is a screenshot of the same scene rendered in the same way it was on the original Playstaion:



The lower resolution, dithering and narrower colour palette create a more unified look that stands up better than when rendering at a high resolution with no dithering in an emulator. The details in the face become more painterly and details in the scene blend more evenly into the darkness. The smoke from the cigarette also blends in naturally with the scene. Here are some other shots of Vagrant Story that show how well the games art direction was thought out with the limitations of the hardware.





I really do think there are a number of games that look better rendered as they are intended. At high resolutions the limitations on textures and models are brought to light and the smart ways of drawing scenes to avoid showing this are lost.

This cropped shot from a cutscene in Metal Gear Solid is also great at showing how the Playstation can look great when the art is played to the systems strengths:

Excellent post.
 

Mman235

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I think the Atari/ CollecoVision era stuff aged much worse, at least to me. I can appreciate the rough polygonal stuff for whatever reason.
Pretty much. Anyone who thinks the early 3D-era has aged the worst needs a reminder that games existed prior to the NES.

Even if you somehow thought every single "classic" from the PS1-era aged badly there was so much experimentation that you can almost inevitably find something interesting in the back catalogue, and if early 3D is that big an issue there are plenty of beautiful looking 2D games as well. Good luck finding much outside the classics in pre-NES times.
 

Krejlooc

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Console games?....PC would certainly have better games, but pre NES consoles are awful now
The atari 5200 is a modified atari 8bit, and the atari xe is just a repackaged atari 8bit. You're crazy off you think there aren't a ton of great games in that library.

The msx, while also a computer, predates the famicom and has an incredible library.

The colecovision has a great library too.

I honestly think you are unaware of the libraries for these machines.
 

inner-G

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Dragon Quest VII's sprite art has come full circle, it is now one of the BEST looking PS1 games.
 

Freshmaker

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SNES era is just ageless. Maybe it's because we haven't really seen anything go beyond that with that level of artistry, LTTP, FF6, etc, still look as good as any 2D games made after.

EDIT: Outside of fighters anyway.
There is nothing on the SNES that even comes close to Muramasa.
 

vicoakland

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I totally get this point of view, even if I don't see things that way.

ie. If you grab an OG PS1, throw in a game like Driver or Syphon Filter..it's easy to see your point.

Where I differ is mainly in discouraging people from delving into the PS1 library. Which would be a shame, since there are so many games on the PS1 that were solid, compelling experiences in their own right. Games like R-Type Delta, Heart of Darkness, In the Hunt, Shadow Tower, Elemental Gearbolt, Roll Away and Threads of Fate or even games like Evil Zone, T'ai Fu, Silent Bomber, Mr. Driller, Nectaris...are all worth a visit to planet PS1.

However, PS1 graphics definitely look better on the right retro set up. There's a couple cheap ways to do this.

a) PS2s can output PS1 games through component (not available on the original hardware) and they do this without emulation and with no input lag. Combine this with a quality CRT and PS1 games will display as close as possible to the original vision. You can build a rig to do this for under $100 and it's more than worth it. There's really no comparison. Just try booting up Soul Blade...and it's clear.

b) The PSOne LCD screen works great and most games look fantastic. If you're into small screen gaming...you can often find these units with the LCD for a good deal if you look. They are well worth it.
 

DrPreston

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yeah i never could get into the classics Resident Evils because of the tank controls,they're just awful.
I never understood how games with such awful controls could become so popular. They were even awful back in the day. There was just no excuse for it.
 

andymcc

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There is nothing on the SNES that even comes close to Muramasa.
Hell, there's nothing on SNES that comes close to sprite-based stuff on consoles immediately after it.

The N64 and Saturn have plenty of ugly, "aged" 3D games too. It's hard for me to even look at much of the beloved Nintendo catalog from the N64 without thinking it looks gross.
 

Mman235

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The atari 5200 is a modified atari 8bit, and the atari xe is just a repackaged atari 8bit. You're crazy off you think there aren't a ton of great games in that library.

The msx, while also a computer, predates the famicom and has an incredible library.

The colecovision has a great library too.

I honestly think you are unaware of the libraries for these machines.
I admit it's a surprise that the MSX was pre-NES, but looking at the dates it only came out a little bit before so it has quite a bit of overlap with the NES-era as far as being a gaming machine goes.
 

SolidSnakex

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I never understood how games with such awful controls could become so popular. They were even awful back in the day. There was just no excuse for it.
Because the gameplay is designed around those controls. The old RE games were very slow paced, so even with the controls you're never put in a situation where they're going to cause you to die. They're pretty easy to understand, and the basic feel became standard across a ton of games, which made them even easier to grasp.
 

inner-G

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There is nothing on the SNES that even comes close to Muramasa.
Fucking amazing art. Looks great on the Vita's OLED too.

Would love to see a new high quality JRPG with outstanding 2D art like that instead of a bunch of moe garbage.
 

Krejlooc

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As someone who owned a C64 and played hundreds of its games...most of those games are unplayable, unintelligible, undecipherable messes. Those times were the dark ages of gaming.
There are people in this thread saying the same thing about the psx.

No, things like revenge of the mutant camels are now unplayable, unintelligible, undecypherable messes. Yes, most games on every system, ever, are poor quality. That's how averages work out.

The above people are speaking like there's nothing worth playing pre-nes. There is a lot I could recommend.