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PS3 Audio: LPCM or Bitstream

R

Relix

he's Virgin Tight™
So I recently purchased a Onkyo SR 508 (http://www.onkyousa.com/model.cfm?class=Receiver&m=TX-SR508) and of course the appropiate speakers for it, but as always the audio setup has been giving me some issues!

The system gives me some Listening Mode Options, usually Dolby EX, DTS, etc. These features work with 360 games. For example! Fight Night Champion activates the Dolby EX 7.1 Mode, and I can choose it and get the full benefit from it. Just a quick example of what the feature does, if maybe I am not clear enough.

Now comes the PS3 (slim) issue! I've scoured the net and the usual response is "Go Bitstream'. I changed the HDMi settings from LPCM to Bitstream. Still, in the receiver screen it only tells me its receiving PCM. No DTS, Dolby, etc lights power up like when I play 360 games with those audio options. It just says PCM, and Listening Mode gives me no specific options but Pro Logic II. Killzone 3, MGS4... etc... just PCM. Even watching blu rays still nets me the PCM light, so I am guessing I am not receiving full 5.1/7.1 sound. Is there something I am doing wrong? Should I switch back to LPCM?

Thanks for any response guys!
 
How are you connecting everything is it HDMI?

To my limited understanding Bitstream is not what you want.

You need to use LPCM because you are trying to hook up a 7.1 system and bitstream has bandwidth limitations up to 5.1
 
I believe you are in the clear. Of what I have read, the PS3 (fat or slim) does the unpacking of the sound for the receiver. So as you watch a BD or play a game, the PS3 is - on the fly - sending raw audio data to your receiver. In contrast, a 360 would send the compressed data to the receiver and have the receiver do all the heavy lifting. LPCM is just unpacked sound data, nothing to worry. Enjoy your new sound system.

Now... I could be wrong about all this, or at least incredibly simplistic, but that is what I collected after reading a few threads on the AV forums when I had the same thoughts a year ago with my 7.1 setup.
 
If you have just switch the PS3 from a T.V to the surround system you might want to check the audio setting on the PS3 and make sure that 5.1 and 7.1 settings are checked. I don't have that much knowledge on the subject but I thought that bit-stream was for optical connections while LPCM was for hdmi.
 
Bitstream only works on Blu-ray anyways afaik. You are always going to see PCM in games.
 
Bitstream or LPCM only applies to Blu-ray movies. Games are always output in uncompressed multichannel LPCM. Which is still pretty awesome if you think about it. It's too bad game audio just isn't as good as movie audio and probably won't be until the next generation.

For Blu-ray movies, all Bitstream does is make the LED light up on the front of the receiver while the front panel yells "DTS HD Master Audio" at you to impress your audience. Unless your audience knows better and understands that LPCM is just the unpacked lossless track which the PS3 decompressed for you before sending as uncompressed multichannel LPCM. In other words there is no difference between Bitstream and LPCM except your receiver lights up and gets all excited for you and your lossless audio and your Blu-ray disc.

Well, there is one difference. PS3 ignores Dialnorm when unpacking and outputting LPCM, whereas most receivers respect and follow it. You don't really want to know the gory details about Dialnorm (Dolby Dialog Normalization), other than if you output in Bitstream you'll probably have to turn the volume louder on your receiver to get the same volume that the PS3 outputting in LPCM would give you.
 
Just got a PS3 slim and had the same question. From most of my reading (including this discussion) it would seem LPCM is the way to go. But then this link seems to contradict what everyone is saying? LPCM is worse then Dolby True HD and DTS Master? Huh??

I do miss the "DOLBY True HD" on the receiver! heh.
 
Red Dolphin said:
Just got a PS3 slim and had the same question. From most of my reading (including this discussion) it would seem LPCM is the way to go. But then this link seems to contradict what everyone is saying? LPCM is worse then Dolby True HD and DTS Master? Huh??

I do miss the "DOLBY True HD" on the receiver! heh.
Click to expand...

LPCM cannot be worse than DTS-HDMA or DTHD, since those are lossless codecs and LPCM is completely uncompressed.

The Dialnorm that Unknown Soldier mentioned is a good reason for every model PS3 to leave it on LPCM, even if it's a slim that can bitstream.
 
This only effects blu-rays. basically if you set it to LPCM the PS3 will decode the audio, if you set it to bitstream the receiver will. You are essentially getting the same thing, the only difference is that if you select bitstream the dolby true HD/DTS-HD lights will light up on your receiver. if you press select while a blu-ray is on it will show you in the top right corner which audio codec is being used.

as for games, 95% of games will show up as LPCM, this is a lossless method of compression, as opposed to the lossy compression of DD. I say 95% because there are some games that don't support LPCM and will play in traditional DD and some PSN games will run in basic stereo.
 
Red Dolphin said:
Just got a PS3 slim and had the same question. From most of my reading (including this discussion) it would seem LPCM is the way to go. But then this link seems to contradict what everyone is saying? LPCM is worse then Dolby True HD and DTS Master? Huh??

I do miss the "DOLBY True HD" on the receiver! heh.
Click to expand...
wow.. that page is crazy FUD.

LPCM, DolbyTrueHD and DTS-HD MA are all lossless audio capable of 192/24-bit. The only thing about LPCM that can be considered negative is storage in that it takes up more space than Dolby or DTS. But in audio qualities all three are the exact same. They better be, as that's the point of lossless audio codecs........
 
To my understanding, LPCM is raw sound, uncompressed, and not treated, sent directly to your receiver, which then does its job ( distributing sound , effects, and else ). Bitstream is compressed, or packed sound ( packed because there are lossless compression formats such as DTS-HDMA and else ). Basically, the processing is done by the PS3 and the receiver does nearly nothing.
So what you want is LPCM all the way ( I miss the DTS and else logos too, but receivers do the job better than the PS3 if I'm right ).

Also, I have the same Onkyo model. At first, I thought the " Direct " setting was the way to go, but then i discovered that it shuts all post treatment ( bass boosting, equalizing, all those awesome things ). Then I switched to "Multichannel" ... and BAM ! Another world, I was blown away ( and can't play Dead Space 2 anymore :( )

Edit : Have you done the auto-calibration with the microphone and else ? If not ... do it ! It's an awesome tool, very useful to get the best of your sound system.
 
7.1 LPCM are bliss. If you are connected via HDMI. Do the automatic audio setup like you do with your video options and the PS3 will know what you reciever is capable of.

Games like GT5, Uncharted series , God of War 3, Resistance are all 7.1 LPCM games. Sound fucking fantastic.
 
hikarutilmitt said:
LPCM cannot be worse than DTS-HDMA or DTHD, since those are lossless codecs and LPCM is completely uncompressed.

The Dialnorm that Unknown Soldier mentioned is a good reason for every model PS3 to leave it on LPCM, even if it's a slim that can bitstream.
Click to expand...
Good point, though I wonder if they make a delineation between "adaptive normalization" (dynamic range compression) and plain old normalization (raising amplitude to the highest point without clipping.) Usually the former does not sound that great.

Linear Pulse Code Modulation is about as uncompressed as you can get. It forms the basis of all raw tracks in recording, generally at the highest sample rate - or number of pulses per second - you can afford.
 
Yeah, as everyone is saying go with LPCM.

I recently upgraded from an older Onkyo that couldn't do HD audio to an Onkyo TX-NR808, the sound is godly. I really wish the 360 could output LPCM 7.1 like the PS3.
 
I always have it set to 'Bitstream'.

This will send all signals in the native form without any conversion so any games in PCM will be run in PCM, any in DTS (or DTS Master Audio on Blu-Ray) will be sent in DTS.

Because the HDMI output on the PS3 slim supports all these formats and the input on your Onkyo will do the same then that is the setting I would choose personally. Either way though you can't go wrong and the system will produce great sound.
 
Red Dolphin said:
Just got a PS3 slim and had the same question. From most of my reading (including this discussion) it would seem LPCM is the way to go. But then this link seems to contradict what everyone is saying? LPCM is worse then Dolby True HD and DTS Master? Huh??

I do miss the "DOLBY True HD" on the receiver! heh.
Click to expand...
omg lol at that site. Where did you find that place?
 
UntoldDreams said:
How are you connecting everything is it HDMI?

To my limited understanding Bitstream is not what you want.

You need to use LPCM because you are trying to hook up a 7.1 system and bitstream has bandwidth limitations up to 5.1
Click to expand...

Uh no.

PS3 will only bitstreams Blu-ray movie content. Everything else is just output as LPCM. For movies though, you're going to want to pick bitstream assuming everything you have your speakers set up correctly. As for the 360 issue, it is sending Dolby Digital 5.1 to your receiver and your receiver in turn displays Dolby Digital. Some PS3 games have the exact same compressed Dolby Digital 5.1 audio but will still output to your receiver as LPCM so I wouldn't just assume LPCM is better based on what your receiver displays. If you have a receiver that supports the HD codecs then I don't see a reason why anyone would not bitstream blu-ray audio.
 
see5harp said:
Uh no.

PS3 will only bitstreams Blu-ray movie content. Everything else is just output as LPCM. For movies though, you're going to want to pick bitstream assuming everything you have your speakers set up correctly. As for the 360 issue, it is sending Dolby Digital 5.1 to your receiver and your receiver in turn displays Dolby Digital. Some PS3 games have the exact same compressed Dolby Digital 5.1 audio but will still output to your receiver as LPCM so I wouldn't just assume LPCM is better based on what your receiver displays. If you have a receiver that supports the HD codecs then I don't see a reason why anyone would not bitstream blu-ray audio.
Click to expand...

The LPCM is better for output using the PS3 because the PS3 will decode EVERYTHING and spit it out as LPCM. It won't increase the quality of a lossy encode, no, but it also won't degrade the quality. Leaving the system set to LPCM ensures that you're getting a consistent signal all the time, too (some receivers will actually only follow the signal when there is audio and may have lag when they detect and start decoding the signal, resulting in moments of muted audio).
 
Good lord people it's all the same digital signal in the end. Set it to whatever you feel like. If you have the rare receiver can only handle LPCM then set it to that.
 
bloodforge said:
He's kinda right. Only the slims will bitsream HD audio through HDMI, my original fat won't.
Click to expand...

Yea but he's saying the same thing the rest of the incorrect people are saying. That by rule bitstreaming is inferior to LPCM. Your receiver displaying LPCM doesn't really say anything about the quality of audio. Yes, he is correct is stating that the old school PS3's could not bitstream the HD codecs. I want to note that the OP stated that this is a PS3 slim issue, a lot of posts seem to assume that LPCM is superior because the old school systems were simply incapable of bitstreaming the HD audio.
 
Shambles said:
Good lord people it's all the same digital signal in the end. Set it to whatever you feel like. If you have the rare receiver can only handle LPCM then set it to that.
Click to expand...

I tend to agree with you as the quality is very close. Although with my set up at home bitstream does tend to come through at a slightly better quality.

On the 'Sin City' Blu-Ray I find that DTS-MA direct (bitstream) tends to sound slightly better than being converted to LPCM first and then sent through to the amp. There are certain scenes where the vocals are slightly cleaner and less distorted. You have to listen for it but I found it was there. Tried this on the PS3 and also on my stand alone Blu-Ray player.

As always though it's worth having a quick test with your own set up and going from there. You will find the PS3 produces superb sound quality either way.

For those with the capabilities to do so make sure you set the output frequencies for audio above 44.1 khz for audio playback. That is one area where owners with a compatible set up should definitely hear a difference. If you like browsing the internet or going through the Xross Media Bar during playback though you will need to leave this setting as is as the PS3 when set to the higher frequency output will not allow you to do those tasks.
 
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