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PS3 not to play used games?
- Thread starter Odysseus
- Start date
Red Scarlet
Member
They probably go through games then trade them in while they are still worth a lot of money, considering how many games come out and how much they cost over there.
Grizzlyjin
Supersonic, idiotic, disconnecting, not respecting, who would really ever wanna go and top that
And then when your PS3 breaks, you have a bunch of coasters for a game collection. Not gonna happen, it just isn't practical.
Agent Icebeezy
Welcome beautful toddler, Madison Elizabeth, to the horde!
Your PS3 would probably register a game by internal serial number or something like that.
I don't know when, but they are most certainly legal here...and much more worthwhile than the US used market. The games are almost always in top notch condition to the point where they could be considered new.Magnus said:
I have no problems with buying used Japanese games, but I almost never go that route in the US (for obvious reasons, once you done it).
Red Scarlet
Member
I doubt they played it for 1 hour in a month. Are you part of Matlock's secret club or what, Sonna?
Flo_Evans said:
The thing is, videogames are a lot more disposable than cars. When I sell my car, I sure as hell am going to need another one, which is not true of videogames (or movies or books for that matter).
The thing is used movie and book trades are not nearly as advanced as the used videogame trade. The products are not nearly as new either. You can usually get a used version of a new videogame within days of it being released.
JackFrost2012
Banned
Red Scarlet said:
If you trade a big-name RPG that costs $X back in during the first two weeks, you can probably get $X - $10 for it. For example, Dragon Quest VIII cost $90--you could get $80 back in the first two weeks, then $65 for the next two, then $40 for the second month, etc. etc.
Buy back prices are actually quite good, not terrible like in the U.S., so there's incredible pressure to buy-play-sell, especially on games you're unlikely to play through twice.
Additionally, Japanese gamers keep their used software in IMMACULATE condition, so there's no real drawback in quality to buying used.
Red Scarlet
Member
Well when they cost ~$100 (in this game's case I think it did), as you CAN buy used games again, even if you did like it, why not finish it, then trade it in while it's still worth a good amount, and get something else with the trade in. Can always buy it later again when it's cheaper.
Suikoguy
I whinny my fervor lowly, for his length is not as great as those of the Hylian war stallions
sonarrat said:
When I was younger I could easily beat a 60 hour rpg in a few weeks. Certainly not now that i'm older and don't have as much time. How many hours do you think it takes someone to get to 60 in World of Warcraft, and how many did it in a few months? (Bad example, I know, but it shows the mentality of any gamer, regardless of nationality. Simply put, if someone has the time, you can easily sink time into a RPG)
Since games are so expensive in Japan now, the typical flow is buy, play to death, sell. People had finished DQVIII and sold their copies within a week of buying it. The second hand market supports this behaviour because shops don't make a huge markup on new software. Typically they buy for 4000 and sell for 6000 for things like RPGs. The buying price drops with supply, of course, but most people seem happy to sell a game after they have completed it nowadays, knowing full well they can buy it again later for a fraction of the price.sonarrat said:
edit: looks like AV beat me to it
Red Scarlet
Member
JackFrost2012 said:
If that's the case of how it is, I'd have traded it in too and buy it for less in a month or two too.
Your DQ8 hate has been foiled!
Red Scarlet
Member
They sold it for that (oops thought I heard $100 cause of some tax) because they knew people would pay it. $80 x 4,000,000 = a nice paycheck.
Agent Icebeezy
Welcome beautful toddler, Madison Elizabeth, to the horde!
Games could come with a dongle to plug into one of the USB ports. Every PS3 has a address or someother form of authentication. The Dongle signifies that only that PS3 can said game. If you are familiar with music software, you'll know that Steinberg uses dongles for protection. Of course, their copy protection schemes have been broken, I don't see that feat being replicated on consoles
The situation in Japan is a disaster. The only reason things aren't as bad in the U.S. is the big box stores -- where most people buy their games -- aren't selling used games ... YET.
If Best Buy, Walmart, CC etc. jump in the fray, the market will go to hell in a handbasket.
Used game sales will be eliminated eventually. There is no question in my mind. We're simply in the early stages of a vicious cycle of escalating prices leading to higher used game sales leading to higher prices etc.
If Best Buy, Walmart, CC etc. jump in the fray, the market will go to hell in a handbasket.
Used game sales will be eliminated eventually. There is no question in my mind. We're simply in the early stages of a vicious cycle of escalating prices leading to higher used game sales leading to higher prices etc.
JackFrost2012
Banned
Jonnyram said:
Yeah, this is the real problem with the pricing structure. Even games which I want to play through twice, I'm extraordinarily unlikely to want to play through twice immediately. So my typical pattern on an RPG is:
1. Buy new for $70, getting any preorder bonuses, point bonuses, etc.
2. Sell back two weeks later for $50
3. (Optional) Buy again when used/new copies drop to $20, which they usually do within 6 months to a year. "Used" copies are inevitably in like-new condition.
So that's $20 for games I don't want to keep and $40 for games I do, plus I get any awesome preorder bonuses to keep forever. This, in a market where new software costs $70.
Guess what: THERE ARE A LOT OF PEOPLE LIKE ME. And it's killing the Japanese game industry.
Well I always figured next gen was not MS' to win, it was Sony's to lose. Seems they might try and prove me right.
I'm not a huge fan of used games (mostly because they are crazy expensive and often scratched), but this is a very heavy handed approach and it removes choice from the market.
I'm not a huge fan of used games (mostly because they are crazy expensive and often scratched), but this is a very heavy handed approach and it removes choice from the market.
Ganondorf>Link
Member
Fuck that. I wouldn't be able to play my PS3 games on someone else's console? What kinda of bullshit is that. Sony is fucking stupid if this actually happens (which I doubt).
krypt0nian
Banned
JackFrost2012 said:
The bad part is that it makes total sense and is a rewarded behavior. =(
No wonder Jaffe went ballistic on the Best Buy used games announcement.
AtomicShroom
Member
Suburban Cowboy said:
Either that, or send your console to Sony and have it fixed for a *cough* reasonable *cough cough* fee. See? That way you don't have to rebuy all of your games. On top of that, since you're not buying a new console, Sony doesn't lose any more money, considering the console will be sold at a loss. It's pure evil genius.
But... it saves you from having to buy your games all over again.
JackFrost2012
Banned
Jonnyram said:
The problem is that the high cost of new Japanese software positively encourages this behavior. Publishers are raising, not lowering prices, so people are even MORE willing to try to recoup as much of their "investment" as possible.
I mean...I'm a gamer, I love games. But I need $50 a lot more than I need a finished PS2 game sitting on my shelves. Especially if I know it will always be there for me to find, later, cheaper, if I want it.
I don't really know a good solution. Fortunately for the U.S., the UNFATHOMABLY SHITTY way Americans treat their games mean that this is unlikely to become a problem.
You know, in a sane world.. one could laugh this off without a second thought. But we don't live in a sane world, we live in a world where media cartels struggle for total draconian control over every last possible use of all possible content in order to scrape up all the money they're supposedly "entitled" to... and a world where Sony Music installs backdoors in your PC and the RIAA wants to hack your computer "just so you won't pirate".
I know this probably won't happen, but dammit I'm not going to put trying it past them.
I know this probably won't happen, but dammit I'm not going to put trying it past them.
First sale doctrine. You own what you buy. Therefore, you can sell it to somebody else. Fuck the whining assholes who think they lose money when you do so.
krypt0nian
Banned
RiZ III said:
OMG viral marketer....
SatelliteOfLove
Member
1. Stupid idea. Piss off consumers and merchants in one fell swoop? Smart!
2. Like someone else said, Sony's consoles aren't known for their...tenacity. Oops.
3. Someone will crack and bypass this within days of the Japanese launch, if not sooner.
I'm calling the last one.
2. Like someone else said, Sony's consoles aren't known for their...tenacity. Oops.
3. Someone will crack and bypass this within days of the Japanese launch, if not sooner.
I'm calling the last one.
Is ikachii a reliable poster?
The link posted by the OP appears to be the Japanese patent office homepage with no mention of Sony or Playstation on it. Not that I would be surprised by this news (it is just a patent afterall), but I would be equally unsurprised if someone made it up.
I think that with an increased focus on DRM and pressure from publishers, something like this is inevitable. I don't think we've reached a point where it would be acceptable to consumers (including myself) though.
The link posted by the OP appears to be the Japanese patent office homepage with no mention of Sony or Playstation on it. Not that I would be surprised by this news (it is just a patent afterall), but I would be equally unsurprised if someone made it up.
I think that with an increased focus on DRM and pressure from publishers, something like this is inevitable. I don't think we've reached a point where it would be acceptable to consumers (including myself) though.
RiZ III said:
at least used games are legal in japan
there are supreme court cases in japan on 2002.04.25 ruled in favor of the used games retailers
japan supreme court judgement (japanese)
http://www.arts.or.jp/judgement/index_chuko.html
before this judgement, there used to be "No Resale" logo and clauses attached to the game package in japan.
after this judgement, the "No Resale" label disappeared from the game packages in japan
krypt0nian
Banned
Striek said:
He's one of IGN's VIP's if i remember correctly. Translator or some such for them.
OK - his tag says "IGNcube Japanese Correspondent"
Aika'svyse
Banned
If this happens its 360 and Rev for me all the way. I like how people can read the future" This isn't going to happen" Everything that comes out negative for PS3 is always downplayed. sheeesh
Used games in Japan are a godsend compared to the crap the US gets. I could comfortably complete my BioHazard collection because Japanese games are such in great condition. Likewise, had to resort to Ebay for completing my RE collection, under strict condition searches.
I swear, why U.S. retailers can't do the same thing as Japan where they wrap the cases and they use peelable stickers (my *God* what common sense!) that have the price and the grade of the used product.
If this is the American way, it makes me ashamed to be American, seriously. (on this front only of course
)
I swear, why U.S. retailers can't do the same thing as Japan where they wrap the cases and they use peelable stickers (my *God* what common sense!) that have the price and the grade of the used product.
If this is the American way, it makes me ashamed to be American, seriously. (on this front only of course
)You know what? It would be fantastic, and is something that need to happen.
Obviuosly, this system as it is here can´t be applied. You can´t loose all your collection because your system pass away. But I think it can be solved, and I would love it to be applied.
It´s simple, rent and second hand copies of games are stealing the money from developers and from this industry in general. Shops are getting a lot of money they don´t deserve, and the industry must solve that for next generation if they want to grow and if markets as the japanese one want to remerge.
It´s not a problem of users, it´s obvious that anyone here would prefer a cheaper game over the original or selling his old finished games, especially when in Japan you can find second hand games in mint condition at half the price in less than two weeks from the original release, that is just crazy (and I´m guilty as well, once a year I go to Japan I can´t resist to get a bunch of used games). And as Jack very well expose, it´s too tempting to have avaliable money that piles of games box getting dust.
Legal? sure, unfair? of course. What shops do actually to earn more money that the own developers of the games?. They have become parasites of the industry, and it´s the hour to put a limit to that. Unfortunately, it´s very hard to do it without affecting users (like putting draconian protectives system).
About renting, the videogames companies should be the ones that rent the games in any case.
It could affect to sales? maybe. But in the best of cases, it would mean more money for publishers/developers, that would mean less risks for this business, and that will bring more creativity, more new companies and more projects. Eventually it could mean low prices and a full reactivation of the industry. This is a very pink vision of what it could be, sure, but it´s something worth of dreaming for, and I don´t see how the actual way could support itself for much more time.
If you want the truth, the only solution I see for this is a generalization of the steam system over the industry. That way developers would be the ones that sell/rent their games directly to the consumers under their conditions and with almost 100% of profit. If you think about it, Is not a surprise that companies like Namco are getting more money from mobiles games than consoles games nowaday.
Obviuosly, this system as it is here can´t be applied. You can´t loose all your collection because your system pass away. But I think it can be solved, and I would love it to be applied.
It´s simple, rent and second hand copies of games are stealing the money from developers and from this industry in general. Shops are getting a lot of money they don´t deserve, and the industry must solve that for next generation if they want to grow and if markets as the japanese one want to remerge.
It´s not a problem of users, it´s obvious that anyone here would prefer a cheaper game over the original or selling his old finished games, especially when in Japan you can find second hand games in mint condition at half the price in less than two weeks from the original release, that is just crazy (and I´m guilty as well, once a year I go to Japan I can´t resist to get a bunch of used games). And as Jack very well expose, it´s too tempting to have avaliable money that piles of games box getting dust.
Legal? sure, unfair? of course. What shops do actually to earn more money that the own developers of the games?. They have become parasites of the industry, and it´s the hour to put a limit to that. Unfortunately, it´s very hard to do it without affecting users (like putting draconian protectives system).
About renting, the videogames companies should be the ones that rent the games in any case.
It could affect to sales? maybe. But in the best of cases, it would mean more money for publishers/developers, that would mean less risks for this business, and that will bring more creativity, more new companies and more projects. Eventually it could mean low prices and a full reactivation of the industry. This is a very pink vision of what it could be, sure, but it´s something worth of dreaming for, and I don´t see how the actual way could support itself for much more time.
If you want the truth, the only solution I see for this is a generalization of the steam system over the industry. That way developers would be the ones that sell/rent their games directly to the consumers under their conditions and with almost 100% of profit. If you think about it, Is not a surprise that companies like Namco are getting more money from mobiles games than consoles games nowaday.
Aika'svyse
Banned
Make a deal with the used game stores then, don't take it out of the gamers pockets, charge Gamestop a fee for selling used games. The stores are going to have to share profits with the devs, this is unfair to the gamer.
Look, when I pay $50 for a physical disc(I am not talking about what is ON the disc since no copies are being made), it is fucking MINE. I can sell it to whomever I want, and that can include a store, which can now sell it to whoever THEY want. So fucking what if the original manufacturer "loses" money. There's no increase in total copies used. I no longer possess the copy I sold. If the industry wants to change that, then they're going to have to go to an Rental-only scheme, where it's explicitly clear you're paying for nothing.
If they want to expand markets, how about getting MORE PEOPLE to want to KEEP their games instead of assraping their customers for every last cent.
If they want to expand markets, how about getting MORE PEOPLE to want to KEEP their games instead of assraping their customers for every last cent.
Yes, that could happen. But how they can do it before? at least from the other way you can foresee a exit. But nobody knows how to reactivate the industry from the actual situation, everyone is asking the same question, especially in Japan.
In the worse of cases, doing something radical that doen´t work could be solved with a step back, maybe.