Agent Icebeezy
Welcome beautful toddler, Madison Elizabeth, to the horde!
Bebpo said:
There will be full games on XBLA for starters
-
Hey Guest. Check out your NeoGAF Wrapped 2025 results here!
PS3 not to play used games?
- Thread starter Odysseus
- Start date
There will be full games on XBLA for starters
Agent Icebeezy
Welcome beautful toddler, Madison Elizabeth, to the horde!
They will make you use a dongle to play. You don't need online to make it work. Every game will come with it's own special dongle or something similar.
Dragona Akehi
Retired
Razoric said:
Now, now. You know I wasn't saying that.
Piracy is definately an idea I do not support. Companies definately have the right to protect their code, I'm not saying they shouldn't.
I was saying they're being much too paranoid and taking it to such extremes that it is hurting the legitimate consumer. The way the media cartels see it, EVERYONE on the planet is evil dirty pirate scum. The first rule of good customer relations isn't "treat everyone like a criminal". Sony and others need to remember that before it's too late.
Bebpo said:
I was hoping I wouldn't have to explain this, but yes, that's one of the reasons.
Xbox Live Arcade - a system like Steam on the consoles. Also provides the awesome feature that every single game has a playable demo for free. Furthermore, unlike steam, these games can be brought over to your friend's house because the HDD is easily detachable. So just bring your HDD to your friend's place (or Memory Card)
But far far far more importantly is the added value that the online experience brings to games. Look at Frame City Killer, they're going to have a downloadable mission every week for an entire year, if you want the full experience you're going to have to buy the game when it comes out, and keep it for a long time. Look at Project Gotham Racing 3, they're going to have weekly and monthly tournaments.
Xbox Live Marketplace is actually a really great thing for the industry. A lot of people here very ignorantly downplay Marketplace with "microtransactions" but they don't appreciate the added value it brings. Marketplace allows developers to keep their game fresh with new content while still bringing revenue in. This way you get more revenue, and less people buy used copies of your game because it's always changing. With the old PS2 system, you buy a game, it's never going to change. You beat it, and that's it, the experience is the same. With the integrated features of Xbox Live this isn't true, and I think will go a long ways towards sustaining and increasing the health of the industry.
Dragona Akehi said:
Yeah I agree with what you're saying, just kicking it up a notch for dramatics.
But I'm not sure if a consumer 'revolt' will happen if they implement this. Apple iTunes sales is an example that if you make it easy people will buy up anything no matter how limited the ownership on said product is. And you don't even get a cool disc or boxart with it. Musashi Wins!
FLAWLESS VICTOLY!
Hitokage said:
^^
exactly.
well, I won't buy a console that has this tech. It's really that simple.
Hitokage is right. It's not like this is new for Sony.
But if they do this, I will be really discontent. I doubt I will tolerate it and won't buy a PS3 if it is indeed true.
But if they do this, I will be really discontent. I doubt I will tolerate it and won't buy a PS3 if it is indeed true.
Chiggs
Gold Member
Wow, got to love Kuturagi and Sony for thinking up gems like this! Thanks, guys! Could you fucks try to be any more (dun dun dun) Draconian?
And there's no way this will ever see the light of day; however, I still don't like the fact that they brainstorm shit like this.
You see, GAF, Microsoft isn't the only evil company out there!
And there's no way this will ever see the light of day; however, I still don't like the fact that they brainstorm shit like this.
You see, GAF, Microsoft isn't the only evil company out there!
EULA aren't uncommon in software. By opening the box, you agree that the company is providing you the right to play this game. Just you. Not your friend.
In theory (devil's advocate), lending a game to your friend is OK, as only one person is playing at a time. But you could lend it to lots of friends, and all could get a full play-time out of it. Thats slightly different from reselling, and closer to the situation where a publisher loses potential sales.
If prices were lower I don't think I'd have a problem. And if games were 'steam-ed', i'd be fine too - along with lower prices.
I think a lot of this hate is down to the idea we own stuff. Surely you see that going away over the next x years? All 'meedia' will be piped to your home eventually, it'll all be on demand. You won't own anything.
In theory (devil's advocate), lending a game to your friend is OK, as only one person is playing at a time. But you could lend it to lots of friends, and all could get a full play-time out of it. Thats slightly different from reselling, and closer to the situation where a publisher loses potential sales.
If prices were lower I don't think I'd have a problem. And if games were 'steam-ed', i'd be fine too - along with lower prices.
I think a lot of this hate is down to the idea we own stuff. Surely you see that going away over the next x years? All 'meedia' will be piped to your home eventually, it'll all be on demand. You won't own anything.
*reads thread*
.....
Guys, this is obviously MS' fault. Notice how all this negative "Ps3 news" comes about near the 360 launch? Grimmy will totally back me up on this!
But seriously, before coming into the topic the title didn't bother me one bit since I neither buy used games or borrow games from people. However, after thinking about Sony's system track record, the Ps3 better be built by God himself since if it breaks down we're apparently all screwed. :/
Still, I don't believe it'll apply to the Ps3 at all. Sony can't be that crazy!
.....
Guys, this is obviously MS' fault. Notice how all this negative "Ps3 news" comes about near the 360 launch? Grimmy will totally back me up on this!
But seriously, before coming into the topic the title didn't bother me one bit since I neither buy used games or borrow games from people. However, after thinking about Sony's system track record, the Ps3 better be built by God himself since if it breaks down we're apparently all screwed. :/
Still, I don't believe it'll apply to the Ps3 at all. Sony can't be that crazy!
mrklaw said:
You can "give" HL2 to a friend if you give them the account and login password to go along with it. I've got steam and css/dod:s/HL2DM installed on both my desktop and laptop but obviously can only be logged in with one system at a time. Since the majority of people using Steam are playing the multiplayer games, chances are they're not going to want to wait for someone else who has the account so sign off so they can go play Counter-Strike.
And you're right about the digital distrobution. This is exactly what it would be like, except I doubt you'd even be able to have the console games be playable on more than one unit.
Going this route for discs seems like a bad idea to me though, for the simple reason that Sony will be putting itself in the middle of a tug of war between consumers and publishers.
People will be demanding that the feature not be included in games after they discover they can't borrow a friend's game for the weekend. Third party publishers will be demanding that the feature does get included as the new standard. They're really desperate to combat used game sales, and something like this would be a gift from heaven for them.
Sony is much better off waiting until things go to a digital distrobution model where people have no expectation of being able to play a game on multiple units since it didn't come on a physical optical disc to begin with. Trying this shit on a disc medium is going against twenty years of consumer usage habits.
I can see Sony waiting until PS3 becomes very popular with a big lead on Microsoft in sales. Then there will be a press conference and Kutaragi will claim "The console wars are over!" Then this new "feature" will be enabled and everyone is screwed on the new non-resellable games come in a different colored box or something for consumer clarity. It would probably be kicked off with a huge game, like next gens equivalent to Grand Theft Auto Vice City. And then any game released from that point would have copyright protection forbidding used game sales. Of course some sort of online register system would have to be set up so if you got a new console or wanted to go to your friends it would still play on their system provided they are online as well. Your games authentication to start up could be stored in your "digital locker" as well as on your original system.
Ahaha no more trying a new game out at work or the store. No more playing at a friends house, no more borrowing games. No more gamefly. Send in all your games when your machine breaks under warranty. Chuck all your games if your console dies outside the warranty.
This is too stupid to become reality.
This is too stupid to become reality.
Outdoor Miner
Member
Kutaragi definitely is da pimp.
And we're the ones getting screwed.
And we're the ones getting screwed.
elostyle said:
Digital distrobution is becoming a reality. Major chains like Best Buy getting into used game sales is only going to speed up the process. This is exactly the type of stuff I expect to hear about when the broadband penetration reaches a point where more companies want to sell their games directly to consumers. But it's a very bad method to use as long as games are still being shipped on physical discs. People have the expectation to take a cd / dvd / video game to whatever unit they want to play it on and be able to do so. Going against that in the near future isn't going to work.
The irony here is that game retailers are going to be the ones who force publishers to find ways to sell games without using game retailers.
As others have already said, lower prices may be the answer to all this pre played bullshit.
$9.99 - $29.99 for new games. No if, ands, or buts.
Movies cost millions to make yet you'll never pay more than 40 bucks to watch them ($10 to see it at the theatre and $30 for the DVD). And the movie industry seems to be doing fine with that payplan.
Yet games cost $50.
Yeah, movies are cheating with the two markets, but still, both prices don't come near 50 bucks.
I don't think steam or any other stupid bullshit like that is the answer, lower prices are and more people playing games are. (Damn, nintendo may be right....) Devs just don't want to bite the bullet and risk taking a loss.
Also, fuck sony if they do this.
$9.99 - $29.99 for new games. No if, ands, or buts.
Movies cost millions to make yet you'll never pay more than 40 bucks to watch them ($10 to see it at the theatre and $30 for the DVD). And the movie industry seems to be doing fine with that payplan.
Yet games cost $50.
Yeah, movies are cheating with the two markets, but still, both prices don't come near 50 bucks.
I don't think steam or any other stupid bullshit like that is the answer, lower prices are and more people playing games are. (Damn, nintendo may be right....) Devs just don't want to bite the bullet and risk taking a loss.
Also, fuck sony if they do this.
I sit here, thinking about this getting angry, and then I think;
"Wow, solution simple".
Will this stop the sale of used games if implemented?
No. People will learn how to mod thier hardware to by-pass this, and eventually, some company will actually sell a kit to do it for you.
I don't see how Sony could stop said company from selling this device either as it is a hardware add-on, and if the customer wants to alter his hardware, all he runs the risk of is voiding the warranty.
This is an IMPOSSIBLE thing to stop. Hell, even IF no one sells a mod to by-pass it, enough people will do it themselves that it still won't stop the selling of used games. That's what's in question here. Sony, Nintendo, or Micorostf can't do A DAMN THING through the legal system either.
Other then all that, what the FUCK is Sony thinking? I bought it, I OWN IT.
If you buy a car, and want to sell it, but can't becuase it's connected to you by scanning the chip embadded in your skin, would people tell them to fuck off?
You bet. Fuck Sony for even THINKING of this kind of bull-shit.
PS3 -1 in sales becuase I HATE large companys trying to dictate products AFTER sale.
It's mine you fuckers, NOW FUCK OFF.
"Wow, solution simple".
Will this stop the sale of used games if implemented?
No. People will learn how to mod thier hardware to by-pass this, and eventually, some company will actually sell a kit to do it for you.
I don't see how Sony could stop said company from selling this device either as it is a hardware add-on, and if the customer wants to alter his hardware, all he runs the risk of is voiding the warranty.
This is an IMPOSSIBLE thing to stop. Hell, even IF no one sells a mod to by-pass it, enough people will do it themselves that it still won't stop the selling of used games. That's what's in question here. Sony, Nintendo, or Micorostf can't do A DAMN THING through the legal system either.
Other then all that, what the FUCK is Sony thinking? I bought it, I OWN IT.
If you buy a car, and want to sell it, but can't becuase it's connected to you by scanning the chip embadded in your skin, would people tell them to fuck off?
You bet. Fuck Sony for even THINKING of this kind of bull-shit.
PS3 -1 in sales becuase I HATE large companys trying to dictate products AFTER sale.
It's mine you fuckers, NOW FUCK OFF.
Wax Free Vanilla
Member
Sorry if I've missed it (haven't read the entire thread), but where are the descriptions of these patents? The IGN person has just linked to what looks like a Japanese search engine.
moku said:
the point isn't to make it *impossible* the point is to just reach that edge of difficulty where people decide, 'eh, thats too much effort.'
If someone is willing to go through the trouble of modding their systems, they are already outside the target demographic for something like this.
I still don't understand why there is such an uproar. In software the norm is that you don't own it and can't sell it back to a store. Videogames are the exception. Sony wishes to change this so that video games more closely match the norm. Or is there some legit store I can go to buy a used copy of photoshop for 1/3 of the price that I'm not aware of?
Is this good for the consumer? Probably not. Though you might see copmanies willing to drop all high profile new games to $40 instead of 50 if they knew there weren't going to be any used game sales.
But, properly implemented, I see this is as a very sensible decision. Thats the key, 'properly implemented.' Sony would be retarded as fuck to use this idea as is with no further modification. But it is a starting point for a very good idea for them.
Please, do you want to compare the difference of companies from Snes and Genesis years to now? Closing the eyes won´t solve the problem. It´s just a matter of listening what people of the industry say about it.
"Fuck ANYONE who´s got any problem with it". As lot of people think as you, companies will answer with a "Fuck ANYONE that have any problems about how we manage our business".
Being this true or not, digital distribution is becoming a reality, and what I think is something shared by lot of people in the industry. As soon as there is possible, at least things change for better, there will be a change in doing things, and you will lose your dear divine right about doing whatever you want with the games you buy. As simple as that. And you won´t be able to do much about it.
Wax Free Vanilla said:
Nothing yet. I had a brief look on USPTO and could find nothing.
Patents aren't necessarily an indication of future products/offerings. Patent strategy is a very complex thing. It'd be funny, a few pages later, if this turns out to be a 10 year old patent or something. Do we even know if the patent is new?
I think a lot of this debate would be better off waiting for a time when this is actually implemented.
most software used to do that until they realized it was utterly pointless.
But even software that still uses physical hardware to grant access to the program through say, a dongle, such that only one person could use it no matter how many times its installed is not allowed to be re-sold. (I believe it to be illegal in fact, though I've never cared to investigate the matter)
Dr_Cogent said:
so you immediately dismiss an idea like an hour after reading about it as impossible?
I personally like the memory card idea that someone brought up. Mark on the memory card the ps3 serial number. If the ps3 breaks, then that memory card can be used to change the number of your new ps3 such that all the games still work. You could ALSO back it up on whatever net connection you have if thats a viable option for you.
Thus, no connection to the internet is required if a ps3 dies. You'd be screwed if you simultaneously lost both ps3 and memory card and have no internet. Which, perhaps, sony would be willing to live with. If not, they can add further ways of backing up your information.
every single issue that people have with this could probably be ironed out in some way. Except of course for the people screaming, 'its mine you fuckers!'
slayn said:
It is? I don't know since I'm not from the US. My argument would have been that it's different for software such as photoshop or an OS because you don't need the physical copy unlike with videogames. But if it's illegal the there's no point. I'm at a disadvantage since I don't know the US laws on the matter and they seem to be very different from ours (e.g I'm pretty sure that you can sell any of your software if you don't use it yoursef anymore, even OEM operating systems).
I agree but the public perception lumps video games in the same category as music CDs and movie DVDs, not with computer software applications. It's funny because games are software but they're entertainment so people have certain expectations of what they can and cannot do with it once they've purchased it.
If they wanted to make this slightly easier for people who play games on a friend's system, they could put the "registration" on the memory card and allow it to be used on another system, but keep the file copy-protected in the system's menu. Most people aren't going to ditch they're memory card or whatever storage device they have once they're done with a game, so it would keep the copy out of the used game market.
But that wouldn't do anything do stop people from using a sharkport kind of device to transfer save files over the internet that allowed people to play used games. This whole thing doesn't sound practical as long as games are shipped on optical discs. It will be interesting to see if any third parties try to come up with their own method since they have the most to lose from used game sales.
Wow. This would be great news if true. It would greatly boost publisher revenues, bringing down the cost of games in the long run.
The problem with pre-played games is that it is all retail revenue. The publisher/developer does not see a single cent of pre-played game revenue.
The problem with pre-played games is that it is all retail revenue. The publisher/developer does not see a single cent of pre-played game revenue.
slayn said:
It's far too complicated and rife with loopholes to be properly implemented where it wouldn't really piss off consumers. The memory card idea stinks too. Memory cards can fail. Having to wait for Sony support to "help you out" to play your games because of stupid DRM shit is insane and won't fly - believe it.
I don't think Sony is going to do anything of the sort with PS3 at all.
Gaijin To Ronin said:
That's fine, and I'll simply say fuck the companies that loses money and goes out of business when people reject this shit en masse. It's no skin off my ass.
In 2003 it was inevitable that the US was going to invade Iraq. That didn't stop me and others from saying it was bullshit. And it's no different here. Fuck 'em.
What will you do if that doen´t happen then? You will shake your hand in angst? I just say it can happen, and is something that industry is starting to ask more and more louder. At the end it could mean shit and nothing changes, but I wouldn´t close my mind to any possibility.
And bringing here Iraq is worthless, it has absolutely nothing in common with this.