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[Audioboxer]

Are you suggesting that including physical support for 4kbluray would push the console that far out?

If you mean making an innately 4K or beefier pro would cause such a delay, then yea, clearly they dropped the ball with the timeline here.

No? UHD is not causing any delay, IMO it is about money. If the costs of the One S are even remotely accurate here, then the PS4 Pro isn't cheap to make.

They need it out around the time of PSVR. I already said that. No point in launching PS4 Pro 6 months after PSVR. Initial sales of PSVR are going to be important to give it a bit of an install base and not let the PC headsets run too far ahead.

 

[Marty Chinn]

Yep. It's sad to say and I wish this wasn't the reality but picture and sound quality just don't matter to most consumers. Even I barely buy discs and I love physical media.

To be honest, I don't even know if 4K streaming will ever really take off. HD is plenty good for most.

So if they don't care about the picture quality, why do they care about the PS4 Pro over a PS4?

 

[Squire]

That was literally the entire point of my argument, and how it could appeal to people with zero technical knowledge beyond a few buzzwords.

People with zero technical knowledge want a TV. They don't know or care what 4K is and those products are unlikely to reach them.

 

[MrBenchmark]

If 'consumer' cared so much about that, they wouldn't buy the console in the first place right?

If 'consumer' cared so much about taking an advantage of a new format they'd have the fully featured standalone player since that's the only option. The One S can't do direct bitstreaming and 'consumer' cares just as much about the latest audio codecs right? 'Consumer' can obviously tell the difference between the audio the One S spits out and their Atmos setup. MarciaBrady.gif

Have you seen the VUDU 4K streams? I own UHD and have watched streams on there. The idea that you can see a clear difference from the 'compressed' stream is not really true. I'd love to see a test of that actually. That's going to be more than enough for most people who don't want to buy movies especially at 29.99.

The vudu thing is bs you can see the difference. I have 105 Internet and full wired gigabit the 4K BvS on vudu doesn't even match the BD disc. And bitstreaming for playback just has to be added the Xbox audio processor is more than capable. It's been mentioned as they are aware of the want.

Those movies are 29.99 bit note they include the regular BD disc and digital copy as well for that price.

 

[boredandlazy]

I appreciate you taking the time to post something substantial in here beyond WTF SONY??!! and skipping thread even if we disagree.

I've also been beating around the bush on a lot of my feelings on this issue and I think everyone in this thread is overstating how many people care about actually owning movies at all anymore. Almost any young person I am around (I do tutoring during the school year) or the people I game with (who are almost all 19-25) never buys movies. They watch stuff in theaters (that too is going down), pirate it or make do with what is on streaming services. Forums like avsforum and blu-ray.com trend way older. We're the dinosaurs. We're not the majority. We're not the people who are going to make this console successful if it was 100 more just because it has a UHD drive.

Lets just say that the PS4 Pro not supporting 4K Blu-ray has crossed upgrading my home theatre to UHD from off my list of things to do within the next 12 months. 12 months is longer than one month right?

 

[wapplew]

I wonder how much it cost for them to include 4K bluray drive.
Surprise by how much huddle Sony when through to make PS4 pro under $400.

 

[Vegetable Lasagna]

Sony cutting corners to keep the price down on a device being marketed to power users? Doesn't make any sense. And it's 4k Blu-Ray support of all things? Their own standard... Are they going to cut the optical port also? lol

Scorpio it is.

 

[Sanctuary]

Yep. It's sad to say and I wish this wasn't the reality but picture and sound quality just don't matter to most consumers.

Which kind of makes 4K and HDR a mostly pointless proposition. You heard this same stuff though when everyone was still on SD in the early to mid 00s.

 

[Fox Mulder]

Yes but netflix and youtube will release apps that offer 4K content so that's okay.

Not the same quality, but most people don't care.

Physical media is dying, so they might as well put that cost elsewhere.

 

[Lime]

is there any chance this will get fixed at all due to the current negative reactions or has production already started and it's too late?

 

[Audioboxer]

I wonder how much it cost for them to include 4K bluray drive.
Surprise by how much huddle Sony when through to make PS4 pro under $400.

Really? It's marketing/pricing psychology 101. Even $399 is a lot better than $415. All about keeping that first digit at 3, and not going to 4.

 

[III-V]

4k stream looks and sounds worse than a 1080p blu ray right now

whoa whoa whoa whoa stop right there

4k HDR streams can be absolutely stunning and far beyond what HD spec can produce.

It ain't the same fucking ballpark. It ain't even the same league, it ain't even the same fucking sport.

 

[ScaryShark]

Check the TV thread on GAF, plenty of people were holding off on buying a UHD player because they thought the Neo would have it, myself included.

I'm glad Sony doesn't make broad decisions on a device they want to gain mass consumption based on the TV show thread on GAF.

I'd be curious to how many of those same people actually do end up buying a UHD player now or simply never do because they didn't get it included in a device they were interested in for other reasons as well.

 

[boredandlazy]

is there any chance this will get fixed at all due to the current negative reactions or has production already started and it's too late?

Don't bet on it.

 

[samar11]

Doesn't bother me since I buy consoles purely for games and not for their media functions.

 

[Audioboxer]

is there any chance this will get fixed at all due to the current negative reactions or has production already started and it's too late?

Gamers are fickle, Sony know when PSVR drops and then Pro with a host of games looking much prettier all the "I'm going to wait 12 months for Scorpio" people will have had time to cooldown and realize they don't want to miss out and certainly won't wait 12 months (but will still buy Scorpio in 12 months, because why not that is a whole year of wages!).

So no, it's not getting added. Mainly though because production will have started.

 

[boredandlazy]

I'm glad Sony doesn't make broad decisions on a device they want to gain mass consumption based on the TV show thread on GAF.

I'd be curious to how many of those same people actually do end up buying a UHD player now or simply never do because they didn't get it included in a device they were interested in for other reasons as well.

I'll only buy a standalone UHD player when it's possible to mod it to support standard blu-ray from all regions.

 

[dankir]

Well I think it's a poor decision. I'm going to upgrade like my plasma to a 4K TV when the new consoles come out.

I definitely don't want to stream every 4K film I like so not being able to playback UHD Blu ray on a device that's there to promote 4K adoption is quite silly.

 

[Mifune]

So if they don't care about the picture quality, why do they care about the PS4 Pro over a PS4?

Sorry, I was talking specifically about movies/TV. Gamers always care about graphics.

 

[ScaryShark]

lol people suggesting netflix &co are gonna close the gap

4k stream looks and sounds worse than a 1080p blu ray right now, its actually quite noticeable. streaming is not an alternative for people who care about pic quality

What even is this thread right now. This isn't true. Like stop. Please.

I'm still waiting for people to start talking about VUDU 4K when they bring up the quality argument. That'd probably be hard for all the 24 hour 4K/UHD enthusiasts to have already experienced though.

 

[Metfanant]

The real question comes down to can I watch the movie on my other devices (such as iPad). BluRay (UHD or otherwise) doesn't help me with those other devices and that's where I consume some (often lots) of my content.

Convenience wins over quality for me or I wouldn't be a long time Netflix subscriber. Keep in mind I'm young and things like Youtube compression has always been normal and acceptable.



Exactly.

oh I'm not arguing that streaming doesn't have plenty of pros...just pointing out that if you're a person that wants quality...disc based UHD is much better

 

[ChanMan]

This is pretty much an non issue for me. I own very little blue ray movies and stream almost everything I can. As long as it still plays regular blue rays I could care less about this feature.

 

[Mifune]

Which kind of makes 4K and HDR a mostly pointless proposition. You heard this same stuff though when everyone was still on SD in the early to mid 00s.

Not pointless as long as someone brings the 4K and HDR to them ala Netflix.

 

[DjRalford]

whoa whoa whoa whoa stop right there

4k HDR streams can be absolutely stunning and far beyond what HD spec can produce.

It ain't the same fucking ballpark. It ain't even the same league, it ain't even the same fucking sport.

This here is the truth, been watching Marco Polo in 4k HDR on Netflix and it is nothing short of stunning, carried on watching it upstairs on the bravia in 1080p when we went to bed and even the missus said she couldn't believe the difference between the two.


That said you will never get a stream that can match source content off a uncompressed physical format.

 

[mjp2417]

is there any chance this will get fixed at all due to the current negative reactions or has production already started and it's too late?

Zero chance. More likely scenario is that Sony releases a more expensive variant with a UHD drive sometime down the road (but that's also highly unlikely).

 

[Oersted]

What even is this thread right now. This isn't true. Like stop. Please.

I'm still waiting for people to start talking about VUDU 4K when they bring up the quality argument. That'd probably be hard for all the 24 hour 4K/UHD enthusiasts to have already experienced though.

Vudu isn't available here, sorry to disappoint you.

Doesn't bother me since I buy consoles purely for games and not for their media functions.

You made a thread about PlayStation Vue.

 

[Inf3cted_b3ast]

Sony cutting corners to keep the price down on a device being marketed to power users? Doesn't make any sense. And it's 4k Blu-Ray support of all things? Their own standard... Are they going to cut the optical port also? lol

Scorpio it is.

It blows my mind. If you are going to cut corners on a premium device to make it affordable? Why call it premium then? They were very outspoken in their interviews letting everyone know this console would be premium. I'm actually inclined to believe the UHD blue ray drive is in there like someone said and will be patched in later cus I'm still in disbelief. Still day one for me though.

 

[DrakeDeception]

I really don't care for UHD Bluray but man this is a huge oversight for Sony. How many consumers that aren't well informed going to buy this thing expecting to have UHD Bluray?

 

[CloudyTuba]

Sony cutting corners to keep the price down on a device being marketed to power users? Doesn't make any sense. And it's 4k Blu-Ray support of all things? Their own standard... Are they going to cut the optical port also? lol

Scorpio it is.

That's what is so weird about it. They already have a new budget-conscious model. Pro is not the place to be cutting corners, especially when they're stepping on their own feet by cutting their own format like that. Totally weird and unexpected. Theyre actually pushing a certain crowd toward their competitors for their own format.

 

[Fisty]

So is McDonald's. What's actually more convenient though is owning a disc, ripping it and having your entire collection on one hard drive. You then get the convenience of streaming and a much higher quality.

That's covered by the digital collection bit you quoted. I don't stream stuff from my collection, that's what h264 mp4s are for...

but yeah on Friday night just looking for a dumb comedy or something nobody is going down to best buy to plonk down $30 on Meet the Blacks in 4k. And they certainly aren't headed down to Blockbuster to rent it either. That's what streaming is for.

And for the Criterion collection folks... hush. You should own prints if you care that much about those films, digital transfers are sacrilege in videophile circles

 

[ZombiePlatypus]

No? UHD is not causing any delay, IMO it is about money. If the costs of the One S are even remotely accurate here, then the PS4 Pro isn't cheap to make.

They need it out around the time of PSVR. I already said that. No point in launching PS4 Pro 6 months after PSVR. Initial sales of PSVR are going to be important to give it a bit of an install base and not let the PC headsets run too far ahead.

I guess time will tell if axing 4kbluray support is a worthwhile sacrifice for Trojan-horsing PSVR support at a cheaper price then. Not that I'm comparing the relevance of 4kbluray vs VR. I just wonder how PS4 Pro will fair in its state against PC VR options.

I can't help but imagine what this would have been like under Ken Kutaragi. A behemoth PS4 that'd have a steep price, but crush it with features and deliver all the bells and whistles. It's not like competing VR options sound like they'll be focusing on an entry level price anyway, so who cares if a high end parallel sku is more pricey?

 

[Drillary Clinton]

Sony cutting corners to keep the price down on a device being marketed to power users? Doesn't make any sense. And it's 4k Blu-Ray support of all things? Their own standard... Are they going to cut the optical port also? lol

Scorpio it is.

It literally makes no sense. They are a harbinger of the 4K format and their biggest console competitor has a cheaper console with a dedicated UHD Bluray player.

 

[Figboy79]

The easy thing for me is just waiting. If Sony comes around and somehow manages to support 4K Blu Rays on the PS4 Pro, then I'll pick one up. If they don't, then I'll pick up a PS4 Pro after it's had a few price reductions. I'm not in a hurry and have to have it day one. Most things I don't need day one. The gaming aspect is definitely vital, and that's probably what will push me to pick one up sooner rather than later, but it still won't be day one. Probably next summer, or next fall.

 

[ScaryShark]

Which kind of makes 4K and HDR a mostly pointless proposition. You heard this same stuff though when everyone was still on SD in the early to mid 00s.

DVD still outsells HD new releases semi-regularly.

 

[DOWN]

wut

I held off on One S expecting Pro to have 4K BLu

 

[mario_O]

What's the percentage of people who have the bandwidth and no data caps to stream 4K? 5%? 10%?

 

[Courage]

I'm glad Sony doesn't make broad decisions on a device they want to gain mass consumption based on the TV show thread on GAF.

I'd be curious to how many of those same people actually do end up buying a UHD player now or simply never do because they didn't get it included in a device they were interested in for other reasons as well.

This is a really obtuse way of looking at things. It's not ridiculous to assume they were going to include a UHD drive, as their main competitor just shipped a product with one, and are clearly making a push for 4K content being available on this new console. It's allowed to be a cost saving measure with people being disappointed by its absence in the meantime.

 

[JustDrive]

Im still stunned I thought it was a given, lack of 4K BR from me alone in lost sales, I've no longer any interest in Neo, PSVR pre order will be getting cancelled, PS+ Allowed to expire replaced by gold not to mention game royalties etc.

 

[Sweep14]

Sony cutting corners to keep the price down on a device being marketed to power users? Doesn't make any sense. And it's 4k Blu-Ray support of all things? Their own standard... Are they going to cut the optical port also? lol

Scorpio it is.

Enjoy your Scorpio

 

[ScaryShark]

I really don't care for UHD Bluray but man this is a huge oversight for Sony. How many consumers that aren't well informed going to buy this thing expecting to have UHD Bluray?

You think the uninformed consumer is well informed on UHD? I bet there are tons of people playing PS4 right now that don't even know UHD exists.

 

[Audioboxer]

I guess time will tell if axing 4kbluray support is a worthwhile sacrifice for Trojan-horsing PSVR support at a cheaper price then. Not that I'm comparing the relevance of 4kbluray vs VR. I just wonder how PS4 Pro will fair in its state against PC VR options.

I can't help but imagine what this would have been like under Ken Kutaragi. A behemoth PS4 that'd have a steep price, but crush it with features and deliver all the bells and whistles. It's not like competing VR options sound like they'll be focusing on an entry level price anyway, so who cares if a high end parallel sku is more pricey?

It would be such a behemoth PS4 that even if sold at $599 it would be at a major loss....

That is the point of criticising Kutaragi. He didn't just make a powerful console, he almost sunk the whole company as Sony cannot charge $800~900 for a console, and they cannot eat a loss of $200+ per unit.

The behemoth you speak of? It's called a gaming PC.

 

[ZombiePlatypus]

What's the percentage of people who have the bandwidth and no data caps to stream 4K? 5%? 10%?

I'd love to know this. For sure it has to be a number that makes 4kStreaming not a viable option for the next few years.

 

[Arkham]

Zero chance. More likely scenario is that Sony releases a more expensive variant with a UHD drive sometime down the road (but that's also highly unlikely).

Yeah, that'll be PS5.

I really don't care for UHD Bluray but man this is a huge oversight for Sony. How many consumers that aren't well informed going to buy this thing expecting to have UHD Bluray?

Significantly fewer than who have 4K sets.

 

[PS5]

Certainly cut as a cost-saving measure. They probably had to choose between 4k blu-ray at $449 and without for $399. I think what they did is smart considering they're able to hit this Holiday.

It seems like 90% of GAF is saying "not interested cuz I don't have a 4k tv" and 90% are complaining that they don't get 4k blu-ray support. Huh?

 

[JudgeN]

This thread is odd, remember when the PS3 launched at $599 and everyone laughed because that was stupid and the price was too high? Remember when it dropped to $499 and everyone still laughed because that was stupid and the price was still to high? Sony learned that $399 is the sweet spot and highest a console should ever go.

We have no idea how much more an UHD drive would have added to the system but knowing they want to make profit on it. It probably would have put it well above the sweet spot and killed PSVR long with it. Seems like a good move, if you want 4K Blue ray i'm sure you can buy a cheap player next year for $100.

You think the uninformed consumer is well informed on UHD? I bet there are tons of people playing PS4 right now that don't even know UHD exists.

Amen the average customer doesn't even own a 4K display and there worried about 4K blueray? HAHA

 

[-ImaginaryInsider]

I wonder how much it cost for them to include 4K bluray drive.
Surprise by how much huddle Sony when through to make PS4 pro under $400.

"$599" taught them a very harsh lesson.

Honestly, I think most of us would've paid $449 for UHD drive capable Pro, but maybe Sony did some surveys that showed otherwise.

 

[Dunlop]

Sony cutting corners to keep the price down on a device being marketed to power users? Doesn't make any sense. And it's 4k Blu-Ray support of all things? Their own standard... Are they going to cut the optical port also? lol

Scorpio it is.

Also they actually make 4k players so I would imagine their cost for the drive would be significantly lower than what MS is paying.

I can only think they don't want to hurt the sales of their own players, nothing else makes sense

 

[Skulldead]

What's the percentage of people who have the bandwidth and no data caps to stream 4K? 5%? 10%?

HAHAHA more like 1%...

 

[EmeraldSwords]

You think the uninformed consumer is well informed on UHD? I bet there are tons of people playing PS4 right now that don't even know UHD exists.

I still get asked if Ps4 plays blu ray disks.

 

[guybrushfreeman]

Damn, I was kind of counting on it being included. I'll have to rethink a little I guess.