irrotational
Member
Like MS? Except their device is cheaper due to gfx chips etc...
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PS4 Pro Won't Support 4k BluRay
- Thread starter blastprocessor
- Start date
Like MS? Except their device is cheaper due to gfx chips etc...
D
Deleted member 752119
Unconfirmed Member
I know. I was shocked at how tiny the section was at the new Best Buy that opened near me. Probably a third of the size of the one in the old location that closed to move there. And that old store's section was probably half the size of the ones I was used even five years ago.
Jailer of Hope
Member
I'd be more pissed if consumers weren't adopting the format at all.
It's rather funny to watch the script flip a bit here. Ten years ago (or so) Sony unveiled the PS3 to have a cutting edge BRD player for the time, which also significantly drove up the price of the console. Lots of people wished they had stuck with DVD instead because, among other things, streaming/downloading movie was expected to eat physical media's lunch in the years to come anyway. Now everyone wants the opposite because apparently that streaming/download only future that made the PS3's BRD drive useless still hasn't arrived.
Granted, a UHD drive isn't as much of a cost premium as the original BRD drives were (probably in no small part because Sony mass-produced blue-laser tech into 80 million+ PS3s...) but there's really no particular justification for it outside 4K movies for which there's still apparently a sizable demand in physical format. Gosh, who knew?
Granted, a UHD drive isn't as much of a cost premium as the original BRD drives were (probably in no small part because Sony mass-produced blue-laser tech into 80 million+ PS3s...) but there's really no particular justification for it outside 4K movies for which there's still apparently a sizable demand in physical format. Gosh, who knew?
Is Sony sending you a check? Seriously your arguments are lol worthy. First it's oh the drive was added cost (a whole $15). Then DF will save the pro with down sampling and how much better 1080p will be (nope). Now it's because streaming is just so awesome why would anyone want physical (lol).
Streaming and bluray/UHD aren't exclusive you can have and should have both. This isn't stats Sony it's Sony wanting to sell you a pro and a stand alone UHD player at the same time. If you're going to sell to a buyer who cares about image quality that buyer is going to look at streaming and laugh.
It's rather funny to watch the script flip a bit here. Ten years ago (or so) Sony unveiled the PS3 to have a cutting edge BRD player for the time, which also significantly drove up the price of the console. Lots of people wished they had stuck with DVD instead because, among other things, streaming/downloading movie was expected to eat physical media's lunch in the years to come anyway. Now everyone wants the opposite because apparently that streaming/download only future that made the PS3's BRD drive useless still hasn't arrived.
Granted, a UHD drive isn't as much of a cost premium as the original BRD drives were (probably in no small part because Sony mass-produced blue-laser tech into 80 million+ PS3s...) but there's really no particular justification for it outside 4K movies for which there's still apparently a sizable demand in physical format. Gosh, who knew?
Bluray added hundreds to the PS3 build cost. A UHD drive would add maybe $15 and most likely less due to Sony already being party of the UHD association.
Some of your arguments are literally proven wrong on the front page of neogaf. I'm not panicking or being hyperbolic. It's a bad decision and a mind numbing one not to include 4K playback in your device and it gives MS an edge in the 4K market. You seriously have to be a hardcore cheerleader not to see that.
Audioboxer
Member
No I'm just exceedingly confident in what I'm saying and with comments like that from yourself I most certainly will be revisiting such posts in a few months. I very rarely do the whole "I told you so", but some of the hyperbolic panic seen over the past 24 hours is ripe for people needing to live with rather understandable, if somewhat disappointing revelations that this market right now doesn't have some huge hard on for UHD playback.
NeoGAF has 170k users, and noisy groups within that don't always = the majority of the market. Sometimes GAF does blow with the wind, other times it doesn't. Don't take insular forums/hardcore online communities as constant gospel.
And of course it gives MS an edge in the home media market (which they've had from the start with HDMI in/DVR), quite clearly though Sony just don't see an edge there as meaningful enough to hurt them, and a tweet from MS certainly doesn't equal cold hard sales figures. Wait and see how MS fare once knocked down the pecking order further with performance, and also once Sony have a VR solution out and on the market for a decent amount of time before MS will be able to adopt Oculus or whatever else they do. Scorpio has promise but it is still far off and MS like it or not need to weather the next year and whatever more sales damage is caused. The One S didn't exactly light up last months NPDs. It got MS ahead of Sony for once, but by a reported 7k was it not? UHD clearly putting in the work. Let's see how the next few months go.
Haha no MS didn't have an edge in the home media department with its built in DVR. That's barely even a thing. Most 4K owners have a robust DVR setup. This just proves you really don't know the customer who the pro is aimed at. Anyone with cable service or who would use a DVR already has a DVR and the MS work through is ok but redundant and not needed in most cases. And better media is usually a tie breaker. The xbone was way behind in power. Now with Scorpio it will check all the boxes and lead significantly in power. Why buy a console that's going to be outdated and has an inferior feature list in less than 12 months?
Including a 4K player is a huge value adder and MS is already pushing that. It took less than 24 hours. Like I said, big mistake.
https://twitter.com/Xbox/status/773608657007280128
And it was entirely expected by everyone that the pro was to have 4K playback. Sony never said otherwise until yesterday.
Audioboxer
Member
Most 4K owners have a robust DVR setup but they're all waiting on 4K consoles to save them and give them the ability to play all the UHD Blu Rays they apparently have? ¯\_(ツ
_/¯So let's see what is next
a) A "now with Scorpio" remark to reference a console coming at the end of 2017 with no exact release date and nothing else mentioned other than 6TFLOPs.
b) A "PS4 Pro is actually outdated" remark when it is yet to launch and will enter a market as the most powerful for x amount of time. Something every piece of technology succumbs to. You can't be the most powerful forever, it's what you manage to achieve when you are.
c) "UHD is massive/huge value/etc" I mean okay, let's see the sales figures reflect that to suggest the majority of the market think so, and not just pockets of individuals (who like yourself can now go an buy an XB1 S or wait for Scorpio).
d) Reference to the MS PR tweet
Maybe if you want to come in at me and call me a "cheerleader" and asking if I'm being "sent a cheque" you should think about understanding you are rather passionate about your beliefs as well. Someone will be wrong on the internet *insert meme image*, let us await and see who it is.
Lil'DigiOp
Member
Its just a really nice lane to own to have the cheapest solution to new physical media.
Sony has held that title for years and they just decided to give it up to MS. It does make a lot more sense if 4K streaming is more popular than adoption rates. Sony at least did the bare minimum and got Youtube and Netflix. They also have their own 4K app so you know thats coming.
Its just weird that the system is so focused on moving forward in resolution but left behind the physical media.
Sony has held that title for years and they just decided to give it up to MS. It does make a lot more sense if 4K streaming is more popular than adoption rates. Sony at least did the bare minimum and got Youtube and Netflix. They also have their own 4K app so you know thats coming.
Its just weird that the system is so focused on moving forward in resolution but left behind the physical media.
A plethora of devices? There are currently three 4K blu-ray players available to purchase as of today.
Audioboxer
Member
Only 3?! Jeez, how is the market holding it together with all the demand? Each of those 3 devices must be sold out everywhere!
(
yes, this is sarcasm....
But really is it only 3 including the Xbox One S (or is that excluding the One S)?
Maybe sarcasm? I don't know. But they sound like some Nintendo fans for the last decade justifying the Nintendo consoles not using DVD or Bluray. And yet, the Sony consoles have been my number one source for both for the last decade. It's kind of a bummer the tradition ends but thankfully Microsoft is giving me the option.
A few more have been announced. One is releasing later this year I think. There are currently 3.
Xbox One S
Philips Player
Samsung Player
bunbun777
Member
It was a poor decision Sony, you should have put it in and taken the loss if 399 was the sweet spot. Now I'm reading that it's a firmware update away and they might not be doing it to push standalone players? Dick move and no one should be apologizing or rationalizing this away.
Audioboxer
Member
Nintendo were ignoring formats that were tried and tested, and currently selling well, but then again Nintendo themselves have a legacy with not really giving a shit about media. Or ethernet ports for some reason :/
With slightly less sarcasm implied, maybe that is to be thought about when wondering why all the big tech companies are a bit slow to pickup/not caring enough about UHD.... yet. I will say yet, as if it gets larger it will be a slow burn to get there, but it could, but in November of this year, and even Christmas, I'm pretty confident UHD Blu Rays aren't going to be the Christmas obsession. They are way too expensive for one, and like it or not the streaming market has started screwing with value proposition. In the same way it did for paying $10~15 for an individual album.
Both of those markets as well are hit often with piracy (film and music), but that is a totally different topic/debate. As there are millions upon millions of people happily paying for Spotify/Google Music/Apple Music and then Netflix/HBO Go/Amazon Prime. Value proposition though, it goes a long way to do an all you can eat for $10~20 a month versus paying that per movie/album. Put it in the impulse spend range for some and you'll stop them pirating.
Yes for the hundredth time, and if we even take a fraction of the GAF hyperbole as truth, people will want to buy UHD Blu Rays at $15~20 due to quality. As said a hundred times as well Sony are sadly for you betting you total such a small part of the overall market it won't hurt them losing some to the XB1. They'd rather focus on their price, and then gaming/VR and streaming 4K and continue to wrap up all the hardcore gamers/gaming focused casuals. That has been working since the start of the generation and I doubt it will stop working any time soon. And for the "but Scorpio!", as I said by the time it comes out what do we think the WW sales gap will be like?
If the format takes off? lol.
They are the fucking leaders in this! The push is dead brother.
Pathfinder
Member
SPEND MORE MONEY
I'm aware of that, I did reference the cost gap in my post. But clearly priorities have flipped around a bit, like I also said. After all, there's certainly some irony to the fact that a UHD drive would maybe add only $10-15 to the cost of the 4Pro probably owes a lot to Sony pushing Blu-Ray so hard with the PS3 in the first place.
Dr. Letz Shake
Neo Member
It seems that the folks who would want to get a PS4 Pro are the kind of folks who'd want a 4k blu ray player; Though that is an assumption on my part.
"focusing on the games" is important for a machine that is designed to do that, but what would adding a small glass covered bulb and a microchip or whatever do to take away from that? Would adding the 4k player take away from one's experience with Bloodborne or Gran Turismo Sport because whatever amount of time needed to develop and implement that was done? Why would they let Microsoft have ANYTHING they didnt on a spreadsheet?
"focusing on the games" is important for a machine that is designed to do that, but what would adding a small glass covered bulb and a microchip or whatever do to take away from that? Would adding the 4k player take away from one's experience with Bloodborne or Gran Turismo Sport because whatever amount of time needed to develop and implement that was done? Why would they let Microsoft have ANYTHING they didnt on a spreadsheet?
blitzwolf215
Member
As weird as it is, I don't find it too surprising. At Best Buy when the Sony rep came to talk to my department, they made it very clear that Sony wasn't interested in the physical media of UHD and wanted to focus their efforts on digital UHD. It's the reason they don't have a 4K Blu-Ray player out right now.
Joelstinton14
Member
I just been looking at the stats of blu ray sales in the UK. There is only sales data till up to 2014, but i was honestly surprised how low the sales were, i kind of had it in my head sales were equal.
From the AVForums
Number of discs sold in the UK, by format and year
DVD
1998 0.2m
1999 4.0m
2000 16.6m
2001 41.3m
2002 89.9m
2003 145.0m
2004 196.5m
2005 211.2m
2006 227.0m
2007 248.1m
2008 252.9m
2009 234.6m
2010 210.1m
2011 191.8m
2012 162.0m
2013 143.4m
2014 124.9m
Blu-ray
2007 0.8m
2008 3.7m
2009 8.4m
2010 13.0m
2011 15.3m
2012 16.7m
2013 18.8m
2014 17.3m
i was quite shocked to see that DVDs were still outselling Blu Rays almost 6.5/1.
The combined sales of blu rays and dvds dropped significantly the next year too according to a chart i can't seem to post unfortunately. It dropped to 119 m Combined sales.
So this is just not a physical vs digital issue, it seems in general, people don't care about quality or premium experiences. A shame really. But that how it is.
From the AVForums
Number of discs sold in the UK, by format and year
DVD
1998 0.2m
1999 4.0m
2000 16.6m
2001 41.3m
2002 89.9m
2003 145.0m
2004 196.5m
2005 211.2m
2006 227.0m
2007 248.1m
2008 252.9m
2009 234.6m
2010 210.1m
2011 191.8m
2012 162.0m
2013 143.4m
2014 124.9m
Blu-ray
2007 0.8m
2008 3.7m
2009 8.4m
2010 13.0m
2011 15.3m
2012 16.7m
2013 18.8m
2014 17.3m
i was quite shocked to see that DVDs were still outselling Blu Rays almost 6.5/1.
The combined sales of blu rays and dvds dropped significantly the next year too according to a chart i can't seem to post unfortunately. It dropped to 119 m Combined sales.
So this is just not a physical vs digital issue, it seems in general, people don't care about quality or premium experiences. A shame really. But that how it is.
CitizenCope
Member
Been over 5 years since I watched anything on disk. I'm ok with this. Guess I'm just more picky about my games visuals than my movies.
mario_O
Member
So the people you're talking about, they wont need the Ps4 pro either? They're ok with 1080; they dont care about 4K; and they dont even have a 4KTV. Is that what youre saying?
Sony took a financial beating trying to make regular BluRay successful, and DVD sales are still destroying BluRays. I'm sure that's partly why they aren't so eager to get into the UHD Blu market.
Joelstinton14
Member
I'm saying that the data shows that not only is digital a bigger market than physical, that also yes, a majority of people don't care about the quality or experience of watching a film.
When you look at the data , you can see why sony decided to omit a 4k player from their machine, especially if it meant getting the machine out of the door cheaper.
I was quite shocked to see how low blu ray sales were here and that how high dvd were out selling them.
mario_O
Member
So people dont care about 4K or 4KTV's but they do care about the Ps4 pro?? Is that what you're saying? For who is this "pro" machine then If nobody cares about 4K??
DieEnteWurzel
Member
I would have sold my release PS4 to a friend and bought a PS4Pro if this thing came with UHD BluRay support, makes no sense for me to upgrade like this
Manny Calavera
Member
There's still Panasonic DMP-UB900. The most expensive and supposedly the best of the bunch so far.
Joelstinton14
Member
Sorry i don't quite understand what you are trying to say?
I think most people will buy the Pro because it is the best available option to currently play their games , i don't think at the moment 4k will come into peoples decisions, other than people on this message board or other gaming sites or home cinema enthusiasts.
Gemüsepizza
Member
So they are basically trying to do what Microsoft had planned with the Xbox One, but instead of games they are targeting movies. They want to kill physical ownership of movies. This is really worrying. What makes this even worse is, that there is a very big quality difference between UHD streaming etc. and UHD Blu-ray. I hope this backfires hard on them. What happened to the Sony from 2013?
Adam Tyner
Member
I'm not sure what things are like in other countries, but in the U.S., it's not remotely so lopsided. According to Home Media Magazine's figures, Blu-ray had a 34% market share last year, which is actually up a bit over 2014. This past quarter, Blu-ray had a 40% market share, although it did have some awfully heavy hitters to help buoy that.
Speaking of games... What are they gonna do when games get over the dual-layer BD storage limit of 50GB? Back to DL'ing large portions on day 1?
Sanctuary
Member
Because somehow having a UHD player takes away from the GAMES!? Also, spouting PR nonsense doesn't make it any more credible. Especially when they mentioned Netflix and other sources to watch 4K content from.
If nothing else, if you can actually buy UNCOMPRESSED 4K movie files and play them on the system, it won't be too bad. Would eventually just need a larger HD.
Yup, best buy has been going with a store within a store model, and with streaming its a first hand look at how it has impacted things. I mean anyone can see that it helped to kill blockbuster and movie rental places. I really took a deep as look at how i consume stuff and literally the only physical media I still buy are games because i can get them cheaper than digital. If prices were equal id go all digital.
People who think them not including uhd its pretentious really show they probably would be the the same ones who ran blockbuster into the ground by not anticipating the impact of streaming etc.
All signs point to stream and im sure the cost benefit ratio made sense to leave it out on a mass scale compounded by as someone else mentioned screwing over other manufactures and themselves again who have standalones.
kind of a moot point anyway since all games have to work on the OG PS4. games wouldn't be able to use the bigger discs even if they wanted to
Drillary Clinton
Banned
regardless of the context the point is that UHD Blurays are still selling, even with the players which are priced roughly 3x what a regular bluray player costs. A console with as much popularity of the PS4 coupled with the huge increases in 4K panel sales would just go hand in hand to further proliferate the format.
Especially seeing as the prices of 4K players will begin to nosedive in the coming months due to products like the One S existing
WhiskerFrisker
Member
People who want to see performance and graphical enhancements? I'm not sure what's difficult to understand here.
Sanctuary
Member
Sony wouldn't be able to sell their $300+ standalone UHD players if they were implemented in the Pro however.
I'd argue that the "performance" differences won't be night and day for most titles, and the downsampling aspect, while nice, isn't worth upgrading to a Pro if you already own a PS4 and are still using a 1080p screen.
FWIW, 4K TVs least important feature is the resolution bump.
Drillary Clinton
Banned
That's a fair point but Sony isn't even making UHD players at the moment, maybe they are interested in putting one out to compete with Samsung, Panasonic, Philips etc
Joelstinton14
Member
Yeah it be interesting to see what the figures are like across the main regions. Thanks for posting those figures.
I was quite shocked to see how low figures were here. If ps3/ps4 owners accounted for all blu ray purchases, they would only be purchasing about 2 blu rays a year, and that is assuming they are all separate buyers. In reality the figure is much lower when people have Blu ray players etc.
mario_O
Member
What I'm saying is that this console is aimed at the enthusiast who own a 4KTV (hence the ps4 "pro"), who do care about about video quality. Gamers also watch movies you know, and some of them are A/V fanatics. And streaming 4K is not an option for many of them, or they dislike the quality of the streams. And that's why this "4K pro" console is gimped.
Megawarrior
Member
For as hard as they pushed and invested in Blu Ray back in 2006/2007, I find this extremely interesting but also worrying as a person who collects blu ray (mainly disney stuff) Is UHD 4k Blu Ray a flash in the pan when people still buy DVD in 2016 and streaming? Makes you wonder.
I agree, in fact I wish they would remove ALL media functionality!
Blu Ray, Netflix, YouTube, internet browser, Twitch get rid of it all so we can focus 100% on GAMES!
family_guy
Member
Let's not act like Sony not including it was due to a lack of consumer interest. They offer a 4K streaming service. Why even invest in that if people don't care about quality? It's a decision driven out of self interest. They save money and they might get you to buy their stand alone player. That's actually kind of funny too since, if people are largely not interest in discs anymore, then why make a standalone player? They are full of crap.