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[SolidusDave]

How do you plan to connect your PS4 to the Internet? Do you plan to connect it by Ethernet or WiFi? Here's a hint, you're have to burden the extra cost for a connection you have no interest in.

Seriously, why do I have to pay more for my PS4 instead of them removing the LAN port. The future is wireless, no one is going to use LAN anymore. Sure, the data capacity is not the same and I can't really max out my much more expensive internet plan but it's enough for MEEEEE.



Regarding business reasons:
Sony is actually profiting from 4K Blu-ray sales while MS has no stake in the film nor HDTV business at all. Yet they put a 4K drive in both their low and high end gaming machines.
Are Sony's analysts just that much better and MS is wasting money? I really don't think this is a good argument you can make for why it's good that the PS4pro does not have 4K Blu-ray.

 

[MarionCB]

That these are arguments that have no relation to gaming is kind of what I was talking about to start with.

I've yet to hear of a single tangible benefit related to gaming by including a UHD player. Soon as I hear one, maybe I'll reconsider my position.

Ah. Well, I agree with you on that. I can't see any benefit to game performance with a uhd drive. I'm only interested in it for media playback.

 

[Scrooged]

So many corporate apologists in here. Their 4K machine can't play 4K blu-rays. That is bad for the enthusiast market that the Pro is aimed at. It's okay to admit this.

 

[Malcolm9]

Just out of interest, would Blu Ray's on the Pro be upscaled to 4k? Or your tv may do that as well.

 

[Abdiel]

I quoted the point that I found most relevant. My interest was your personal opinion and I'm glad you put it in there.

I haven't personally bought any physical movies in a long time. But that's me. I'm not weighting my interpretation based on how my customers are buying things or asking about things.

And as I said. If it upsets people, be upset, I don't think these people are wrong to be disappointed for their own reasons. There's just no data to support the reasoning that it was somehow a bad decision due to business factors or market likelihood.

 

[SolidusDave]

I find it funny how people will buy an Xbox One S for a UHD Blu Ray player, yet are happy to play games at a lower resolution than the original PS4.

Can people stop with that argument? Pretty much everyone here that has mentioned that point already owns a PS4 and/or PC and won't suddenly play all games on XB1s?!
This is not about buying your first current gen console, this about if it is worth upgrading from a PS4.

 

[Crimson_Gold]

Just out of interest, would Blu Ray's on the Pro be upscaled to 4k? Or your tv may do that as well.

I believe it will be upscaled. Emphasis on believe. I'm not sure e

 

[Malcolm9]

Can people stop with that argument? Pretty much everyone here that has mentioned that point already owns a PS4 and/or PC and won't suddenly play all games on XB1s?!
This is not about buying your first current gen console, this about if it is worth upgrading from a PS4.

Really, I disagree going by some of the comments on here.

Each to their own though.

 

[EmiPrime]

Yeah... But really WiFi is worthless. It reduces performance and with PowerLine unnecessary. Cut that and give us uhd

lol.

That's what I'm saying. I'll go for all the gaming bonuses along with a uhd player by getting an Xbox 1 S rather than a standalone player that will cost more or at best about the same? I do want an Xbox One controller to replace the 360 one I use for xinput games on PC. I wouldn't mind trying out Sunset Overdrive either.

Also, I'm in Australia, and no standalone uhd player gets near the $399 XB 1 S price currently (and that's a bundle with both Halo games); they seem to be around $500-600. I would have preferred to get a PS4 Pro though, but it has no uhd drive. *shrugs*

Sounds like you'll be alright then. You get that media player, a great controller and Sunset Overdrive. I think you'll be very happy with it. You can always get the PS4 Pro later when Sony roll out some bundles.

 

[shouamabane]

I haven't personally bought any physical movies in a long time.

I totally understand your argument. You don't care about physical movies.

 

[Lady Gaia]

The one where they kept going 4k 4k 4k. Turns out there's no UHD drive and their games don't even do 4k natively. Screams rushed out the door and half baked 4k experience.

It's a game console. Games running on it are designed to take advantage of 4K displays from enhanced detail to expanded color gamut to HDR support. Some games are indeed native 4K. It sounds like they focused in the core gaming experience to me, which makes sense given the nature of the product and the success Sony had focusing on gaming when Microsoft was busy pitching the "all-in-one" experience.

It's definitely a missed opportunity and disappointing to me as a consumer that they didn't include UHD media support, but it isn't a big deal or central to the equation of why I own a game console in the first place. It's also 100% consistent with the lack of a dedicated media remote this generation.

 

[gundamkyoukai]

Can people stop with that argument? Pretty much everyone here that has mentioned that point already owns a PS4 and/or PC and won't suddenly play all games on XB1s?!
This is not about buying your first current gen console, this about if it is worth upgrading from a PS4.

Stand alone players are getting cheaper and there are much better than XB1S .
If all you care about is 4K blu rays why not buy a better one .

 

[GhostInTheAttic]

So many corporate apologists in here. Their 4K machine can't play 4K blu-rays. That is bad for the enthusiast market that the Pro is aimed at. It's okay to admit this.

The PS4Pro is still a gaming machine first and foremost. That's what most people arguing here seem to be forgetting.

No. This console isn't aimed at 4K videophile enthusiasts, and very few are actually going to mourn the omission.

Throw every reasonable argument you can at it. No, it doesn't make sense to have omitted it; and no, it doesn't and won't matter, either.

This "Pro" version of the PS4 (hardly enthusiast grade "premium" at $399) is just a hardware refresh for people who want a more budget friendly entry to 4K.

$30 or whatever UHD BRD's cost isn't budget friendly.

However, games like Horizon, Days Gone and streaming services in 4K or "close to 4K" will get those people on a budget (the actual target audience) by just dandy in their new format endeavour.

There really isn't anything more to it, IMO.

 

[Bojanglez]

Yeah... But really WiFi is worthless. It reduces performance and with PowerLine unnecessary. Cut that and give us uhd

Some people will only have WIFI as an option or would be burdened with an additional cost to get basic gaming related functionality. Of those people 100% could potentially give Sony's PlayStation division money for their PSN subscriptions and game purchases, thus easily justifying the risk of alienating Ethernet only consumers with the additional cost of supporting WiFi too.

A UHD Blu Ray drive is of literally no benefit to the ongoing money making capabilities of the PlayStation division once the console is in the hands of a customer.

 

[SolidusDave]

Stand alone players are getting cheaper and there are much better than XB1S .
If all you care about is 4 k blu rays why not buy a better one .

TBH I haven't been following the issues of XB1's 4K BD playback, but at a glance it seems like all of that can be pretty much fixed with software updates? I don't think you can actually get better image quality from the stand alone players due to hardware etc.?

I do get your point of course. It's just that I always try to min-max my purchases so if I have to buy another device just for 4K blu-rays it might as well give me access to a whole new games catalogue. For the same/cheaper price even.

 

[Grim_Reaper]

Glad it works for you, but my perpective is that its a failure. All the people i know in real life are passing on the PS4 Pro. It varies between keeping what they currently have, buying a Xbox One S, or upgrading their computer and focusing more on pc gaming. Why? No UHM player.

All the people I know in real life are not passing up on the PS4 pro because it doesn't have a UHD. So what you are saying is your gaming friends would rather upgrade to a less powerful console for a UHD player. Sorry but I find this obsurd and a little unbeliavable.

You're overthinking this, lots of people here are buying or have just bought a 4KTV because of PS4Pro and would've liked PS4Pro to play UHD movies so they don't have to buy a stand alone UHD player (or Xbox One S) to get the full 4K experience. Before the unveil the general asumption was that UHD playback was included in PS4Pro. Check the unveil stream threads, people thought the press lied when they reported about the lack of UHD playback until it was confirmed by several independent sources, and it was probably way more Sony fans than Xbox fans looking at that stream.

There might well be some people that wanted to buy a PS4 pro and have a UHD but at the expensive of the majority of people I don't think that minority should dictate that. I think you should buy a seperate UHD player or and xbox s if that is what you are after. The only reason I can think that you would never want to invest in a decent seperate UHD player is because the likely hood you probably won't buy many UHD discs so don't want to spend that money.

How do you plan to connect your PS4 to the Internet? Do you plan to connect it by Ethernet or WiFi? Here's a hint, you're have to burden the extra cost for a connection you have no interest in.

This is probably the most silly argument I think I have come across. I actually use both when I move it round the house. aside from that a gaming console designed around local and internet gaming and not have an internet connection so I give a 5 star for most ridiculous counter argument I have heard.

 

[Panajev2001a]

It's not. The point of the Slim PS4 is that they can drop the price relatively easily. That's why it doesn't have a 4K blu-ray drive or even an optical port. Right now it's $299, but it will move downward if need be.

And it's the same for the Pro, the lack of a 4K drive will help them lower the price. Sony is actively looking to expand the lower end of the market, which is in direct contrast to MS, who have set their sights on expanding their share of the high end with the premium feel of the S and the Scorpio.

It is a dangerous move for both, maybe a bit more dangerous for MS, but then the payoff is greater. If you truly conquer the higher end it is easier to catch sales of your cheaper edition/mid to low end products as they will be seen as parts of a premium family.

 

[gundamkyoukai]

It is a dangerous move for both, maybe a bit more dangerous for MS, but then the payoff is greater. If you truly conquer the higher end it is easier to catch sales of your cheaper edition/mid to low end products as they will be seen as parts of a premium family.

It's not really that dangerous for Sony .
Come nov and dec we know the slim going to be cheaper than $299.
If we talking WW people don't care about MS so a high end device not really going to change much .
It also the only market they can go after right now.
Truth is the high end and low end markets are so different you never find one company ruling both with there products .
It going to be interesting to see if there is a high end consoles market depending on how MS price Scorpio.

 

[MisterXDTV]

Just out of interest, would Blu Ray's on the Pro be upscaled to 4k? Or your tv may do that as well.

Yes the PS4 Pro will upscale Blu-rays to 4K. I don't know if it would give better quality picture compared to the TV scaler....

From the Official FAQ:

Q: Does PS4 Pro support Ultra 4K Blu-ray Discs?
No, PS4 Pro’s internal Blu-ray drive does not support the new Ultra 4K Blu-ray Disc format. It supports the same Blu-ray Disc specs as the standard PS4. The Blu-ray Disc Player application, however, will support high-quality upscaling of DVD and Blu-ray Disc content.

 

[Abdiel]

It is a dangerous move for both, maybe a bit more dangerous for MS, but then the payoff is greater. If you truly conquer the higher end it is easier to catch sales of your cheaper edition/mid to low end products as they will be seen as parts of a premium family.

It's not really a dangerous move at all. They've built themselves into a solid price point with a great deal of flexibility for the lower model that can work to build their base.

This is exactly what I predicted in my retail thread a few months ago. Almost verbatim. And it looks to work exactly as intended.

 

[Marty Chinn]

Internet connectivity options for a games console are different to film media options on a games console both in terms of necessity and consumer expectations.

That poster is complaining about paying for something that they won't use or care about. The point is there is no console where you are utilizing 100% of everything in your favor. You're always paying for something that you're likely not utilizing to some degree. So I think it's a flawed argument to complain about the burden.

 

[Metfanant]

Oh gee well that settles it, looks like myself and my friends and the countless negative reactions on the internet and almost every games site I've bothered to read about the issue are just picky outliers and no one actually cares about UHD playback on PS4P.

at least that is real consumer feedback...we both know your exaggerrating your "countless negative reactions" crap anyway because there is no way to verify what is simple concern trolling from MS fans or people that dont even have 4k TV's

... I'm speechless.

seriously? i think the PS3 proved you dont want to launch a console at more than $399

So Sony thinks mass market doesn't care about UHD but... one of the like... three bullet points they use to advertise the Pro is UHD/4K* capability?

NO...Sony things the market for PHYSICAL DISC BASED UHD isnt ready for primetime...and thats why they have not even launched a stand alone player yet!

But in the context of the Pro, why? This is supposed to be a premium product for enthusiast. Was the original PS4 at $399 a premium product? No. If the system had more power and a UHD drive I'm sure the enthusiast would have paid up to $500. I really don't get Sony's thinking here. They want to deliver a premium product, but gimp it because they want to sell it at a mass market price. Let the larger market get the Slim if price is such an important factor to them. As it is the $100 difference makes the Slim very unappealing. Their strategy for the Pro and Slim is baffling.

the PS4Pro is still a PS4...its NOT a PS5...its offering you 3x the gaming performance at the same cost as the OG PS4...that absolutely is a premium console...period...

The one where they kept going 4k 4k 4k. Turns out there's no UHD drive and their games don't even do 4k natively. Screams rushed out the door and half baked 4k experience.

their games, can and will do 4k natively...will modern AAA titles be native? no...but many games will...

what it screams is upgraded PS4 with 3x more gaming capability to hold people over until the PS5 is launched..

 

[AyaisMUsikWhore]

So many corporate apologists in here. Their 4K machine can't play 4K blu-rays. That is bad for the enthusiast market that the Pro is aimed at. It's okay to admit this.

While it's also OK to admit that the PlayStation pro is a gaming console which exist to make games look better opposed to movies outside of streaming. The medium exist, it's just that many on one side can't seem to understand this like the others who have already accepted that it will not, has. It's annoying to see in this thread the same familiar faces argue for something that only fits there needs when their are more people who really could give a shit.

Like with that logic, why not go further down the rabbit hole of shit Sony should have included because 2500 people in the world use these features? It's stupid. Right now, the lack of a UHD drive is a unfavorable decision... But since this console was aimed at making games look better first and foremost (as that entire conference attempted to show only mentioning the streaming benefits of this console in a small 60 second limit) .. It seems that it's very clear what they were advertising.

The rest of the UHD crowd can stay pressed and buy the XB1S or a standalone player for all their bells and whistle. The rest of us aren't going to give their side the benefit of the doubt because they refuse to understand how this shit works when explained a million times why and they refuse to accept that and move on. It's a a worthless conversation trying to get the rest of us to see their side and join in the bullshit boycotting of the system because of a drive that has been statistically shown, that it's not important at all right now.

--

And why are the cost games continuing in this thread? iPhone cost damn near $120 to make and them shits still come out to $900. Obviously the drive just ain't $15 and that's it. TF?

 

[Matt]

It is a dangerous move for both, maybe a bit more dangerous for MS, but then the payoff is greater. If you truly conquer the higher end it is easier to catch sales of your cheaper edition/mid to low end products as they will be seen as parts of a premium family.

Eh, not really for Sony. They already have significant mind and market share at the high end...and the low end really.

MS is the one that needs to shake things up.

 

[shouamabane]

Group 1: People who want the option to play UHD discs

Group 2: People who don't care or don't want the option to play UHD discs

 

[Panajev2001a]

It's not really a dangerous move at all. They've built themselves into a solid price point with a great deal of flexibility for the lower model that can work to build their base.

This is exactly what I predicted in my retail thread a few months ago. Almost verbatim. And it looks to work exactly as intended.

The danger is for MS to actually win the high end and work their way downward. Not saying it is a high risk now, but it is a potential scenario which their strategy could open them up to.

 

[martino]

Group 1: People who want the option to play UHD discs

Group 2: People who don't care or don't want the option to play UHD discs

the question being how many of group 1 will still buy (even if they complain)

 

[SolidusDave]

Why does it make more sense for MS than Sony to include a 4K drive? If we are talking business analysts, hardware cost efficiency and usage statistics.
In BOTH their low and high end models.
Because I don't get it.

 

[Panajev2001a]

Eh, not really for Sony. They already have significant mind and market share at the high end...and the low end really.

MS is the one that needs to shake things up.

True, we will see if MS is able to capitalise on it, but they do have a small chance... big risk for a potentially big reward if they can get the high end mindshare in essentially a new generation.

 

[MisterXDTV]

The danger is for MS to actually win the high end and work their way downward. Not saying it is a high risk now, but it is a potential scenario which their strategy could open them up to.

And including a more expensive MOVIE disc player would save the Playstation brand from failure, right???

Spoiler

LOL

 

[Matt]

Why does it make more sense for MS than Sony to include a 4K drive?
In BOTH their low and high end models.
Because I don't get it.

Because Sony is already wildly successful and established an early and deep lead in the high end market. The techies, the taste makers, the gaiming media, etc. is already ground Sony has won.

MS needed to do something to start to try to get noticed again in that sector. A 4K blu-ray drive actually was a pretty nice move for them from that perspective.

So, they are in a different position than Sony, and have different goals.

 

[Head.spawn]

Because Sony is already wildly successful and established an early and deep lead in the high end market. The techies, the taste makers, the gaiming media, etc. is already ground Sony has won.

MS needed to do something to start to try to get noticed again in that sector. A 4K blu-ray drive actually was a pretty nice move for them from that perspective.

So, they are in a different position than Sony, and have different goals.

I wouldn't even have considered it some kind of extravagant expense that they would have had to go out of their way too include. After MS announced it at such a low price, with a redesign; I think most people were thinking of it as a standard feature going forward that should've been in the PS4 Slim and at the very least, the PS4 Pro.

 

[shouamabane]

I guess there's a Group 3 of uninformed and/or ignorant people out there.

the question being how many of group 1 will still buy (even if they complain)

I'm in group 1. I guess there isn't a ton of choice at the moment. I've bought every PlayStation at launch, but physical media (CD, DVD, Blu-ray and Sony being a proponent of physical games with PS4 at launch) was a pretty big value add for those systems for me. I've tried to get excited for PS4 Pro, but it just feels like a weird half-step to me overall. Lack of UHD disc support is an example of that.

 

[entremet]

I guess there's a Group 3 of uninformed and/or ignorant people out there.



I'm in group 1. I guess there isn't a ton of choice at the moment. I've bought every PlayStation at launch, but physical media (CD, DVD, Blu-ray and Sony being a proponent of physical games with PS4 at launch) was a pretty big value add for those systems for me. I've tried to get excited for PS4 Pro, but it just feels like a weird half-step to me overall. Lack of UHD disc support is just one example of that.

The world has change massively since 2006.

Streaming is really that competitive and physical media for movies is not even in the conversation for many these days.

Sony realized this.

 

[EmiPrime]

That poster is complaining about paying for something that they won't use or care about. The point is there is no console where you are utilizing 100% of everything in your favor. You're always paying for something that you're likely not utilizing to some degree. So I think it's a flawed argument to complain about the burden.

You're making a false equivalence.

Why does it make more sense for MS than Sony to include a 4K drive? If we are talking business analysts, hardware cost efficiency and usage statistics.
In BOTH their low and high end models.
Because I don't get it.

They needed a differentiator in relation to the PS4 Slim and they probably expected the PS4 Pro to have one. Also in a reversal of last generation, MS are also more interested in pursuing the media functions of a games console than Sony is as evidenced by the HDMI in passthrough (which funnily enough doesn't support 4K even on the S).

 

[Panajev2001a]

Because Sony is already wildly successful and established an early and deep lead in the high end market. The techies, the taste makers, the gaiming media, etc. is already ground Sony has won.

MS needed to do something to start to try to get noticed again in that sector. A 4K blu-ray drive actually was a pretty nice move for them from that perspective.

So, they are in a different position than Sony, and have different goals.

Sure, I get a lot less excited by the choices of the market leader moving into cementing their won and extracting value out of it. I would have still liked to see the premium model appear fully premium and not coming with a, business valid as much as you want, but not nearly as convincing for me as even Apple's justification for removing the 3.5mm jack... well, the "we do it because we are brave" out of it.

I happen to find an issue when even he guys who sell you the high end TV's suggest a second best solution to make good use of your TV... and doing so when targeting the higher end audience seems like it should find a lot more pushback as those are the people with expensive and calibrated TV's who should know that Netflix does not come close to what their TV and audio equipment could do... it seems like wasting money.

 

[EvB]

The world has change massively since 2006.

Streaming is really that competitive and physical media for movies is not even in the conversation for many these days.

Sony realized this.

With statements like that , you are effectively saying that Sony will never produce a Playstation with a Disc drive more sophisticated than Blu Ray.

Also, for a company who was singing the praises of 1080p native resolution vs the inferior image quality of it's competitors, it would seem somewhat of a contradiction for them to then say that streaming services are good enough for watching movies, despite the void in image quality between the 2 formats currently.

Also, has Sony even confirmed that the PS4 Pro with Have 4k HDR compatible Streaming apps at launch?

Which is exactly why they haven't said such a thing, not including the UHD drive is merely a cost saving move on Sony's behalf and that they didn't expect the Xbox One S to have that feature, that and the fact that Sony aren't actually in a great position at the moment for UHD HDR Tv's , which is why they can't even make a reccomendation to gamers to buy a Sony TV.

 

[entremet]

With statements like that , you are effectively saying that Sony will never produce a Playstation with a Disc drive more sophisticated than Blu Ray.

Also, for a company who was singing the praises of 1080p native resolution vs the inferior image quality of it's competitors, it would seem somewhat of a contradiction for them to then say that streaming services are good enough for watching movies, despite the void in image quality between the 2 formats currently.

Which is exactly why they haven't said such a thing, not including the UHD drive is merely a cost saving move on Sony's behalf. Nothing more, nothing less.

For a company like Sony, where PlayStation is their strongest and most reliable brand, saving money is not something to take lightly.

Have you missed how they've been trimming the fat this generation? They're not in their freewheeling PS3 days, where they salvaged a system but lost billions on the process.

MS has huge cash cows an is currently in far second place, thus they have more leeway for value adds.

 

[bunbun777]

So why did MS put a UHD drive in their S? Bad business decision?

 

[Damon Bennet]

I'll speak for myself:

I already have a ps4 and I never imagined buying an Xbox one. Was looking forward to replace the ps4 with a pro. I'm an avid movie-watcher, so the ps4 pro was a huge disappointment. No uhd-blue ray, no buy for me . So now I have both, Xbox one s and a ps4 (which still can't even play CDs). I wont upgrade to pro just for faux-4k gaming.

 

[Matt]

So why did MS put a UHD drive in their S? Bad business decision?

It's less than ten posts above you.

 

[Massa]

Which is exactly why they haven't said such a thing, not including the UHD drive is merely a cost saving move on Sony's behalf and that they didn't expect the Xbox One S to have that feature, that and the fact that Sony aren't actually in a great position at the moment for UHD HDR Tv's , which is why they can't even make a reccomendation to gamers to buy a Sony TV.

Everything that's part of the design of a console is cost driven. The choice of BD drive is one, as is the GPU. Sony built a console with the most powerful AMD GPU in the market today, Microsoft is using an underpowered 4 year old GPU capable of playing games like Battlefield at 720p but with a great movie disc reader. We'll see which resonates better in the market this holiday season.

 

[Marty Chinn]

You're making a false equivalence.

Not at all. Here are things I'm paying for that I won't utilize on the Pro; front USB ports, Wi-Fi hardware, optical port, Blu ray license and the 1TB HDD. I don't complain I'm paying for the burden of those features on the device that I'll never use. The same applies for many almost everyone for any number of features.

 

[MisterXDTV]

So why did MS put a UHD drive in their S? Bad business decision?

They needed a feature to make the Xbox One S different from the disaster that the original Xbox One was....

Basically it's still the same gaming console

 

[Snarfington]

We got a 4K TV today (the Samsung UEKS8000) and they threw in a free UHD Blu Ray player. I'm not as mad about the PS4 Pro not having it anymore but, man, I would've loved to have freed up an HDMI port with that thing.

 

[vpance]

I'll speak for myself:

I already have a ps4 and I never imagined buying an Xbox one. Was looking forward to replace the ps4 with a pro. I'm an avid movie-watcher, so the ps4 pro was a huge disappointment. No uhd-blue ray, no buy for me . So now I have both, Xbox one s and a ps4 (which still can't even play CDs). I wont upgrade to pro just for faux-4k gaming.

Buy what you'll buy, but FauxK is no joke.

When John and Richard from DF are impressed by the results you know it's legit.

 

[Bits N Pieces]

So why did MS put a UHD drive in their S? Bad business decision?

It seemed like a no brainer?

 

[Panajev2001a]

And including a more expensive MOVIE disc player would save the Playstation brand from failure, right???

Spoiler

LOL

You make your straw man (risk of impending doom) and you mock it... cute. Not what I said, please re-read .

 

[JORMBO]

I got an Xbox 1 S last night because I like buying movies and wanted a UHD player. Debating if I want to keep my Pro preorder now. I like the idea of Scorpio a lot, so I might start buying my multiplatforms with Xbox and just get Sony exclusives on the regular PS4.

 

[bunbun777]

It's less than ten posts above you.

Yea I see your response, but saying MS is second and that frees them up to play more loose doesn't really do it for me. I seemed to learn a long time ago that consoles are there to push software, they aren't about making a pure profit as much as they are an attempt to get into homes and push all the extras, ps plus, the ecosystem. We got people saying Sony wants you to focus on streaming, and that their games division doesn't care about the tv/movie side, but something just doesn't seem right. We got folks that think Sony are greedy and want to sell stand alone players, I don't like that either.