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PS4's AF issue we need answers!

Lord Error

Insane For Sony
Jun 8, 2004
28,319
0
0
Neither are being shot with a lens of any sort. It's an undesirable visual artifact that is never needed.
That depends on developers intent. Some simulate all the different lens properties that visuals are being put though. In general, I like how CA looks in some games, don't like it in others, much like many other effects. It fits a certain aesthetic for me. If you don't like it at all... that's also fine, not sure what else to tell you.
 

pixlexic

Banned
Nov 10, 2012
7,468
1
0
Some of these games like bloodborne just seems to have minimal mipmaping not af issues.

That is just going by the screens posted.
 

Freshmaker

I am Korean.
Jul 29, 2005
22,162
6
1,310
That depends on developers intent. Some simulate all the different lens properties that visuals are being put though. In general, I like how CA looks in some games, don't like it in others, much like many other effects. It fits a certain aesthetic for me. If you don't like it at all... that's also fine, not sure what else to tell you.
It's a weird fad like lens flares. Neither add anything to a game. More just "Oh look, someone's watching me through a camera for some reason." Thanks for adding an immersion shattering layer between me and the game dev.
 

AgentP

Member
Jun 5, 2011
7,101
1,095
865
So no update with NX gamers video talking about the Dying Light patch amongst other things? He say 8x AF, new dynamic lighting, better LOD and no performance change.
 

stryke

Member
Oct 1, 2011
10,922
1
670
There's popular speculation here that PS4 struggles with AF in Unreal 3 games in comparison to X1 but it seems that isn't the case with Borderlands.

I wonder what the outcome will be in regards to Ninja Theory as well.

 

Javin98

Banned
Nov 30, 2014
6,851
0
0
Ipoh, Malaysia
There's popular speculation here that PS4 struggles with AF in Unreal 3 games in comparison to X1 but it seems that isn't the case with Borderlands.

I wonder what the outcome will be in regards to Ninja Theory as well.

Yep, read the DF article yesterday and was pleased. It shows that devs can enable a high level of AF in games running on Unreal Engine 3 if they really work for it. Hopefully, Batman Arkham Knight will have good, or at the very least, decent level of AF.

FYI Sony released a tech note related with AF.
Really? When? Got a link?
 

lherre

Accurate
Feb 6, 2007
1,741
0
0
www.beta-zero.com
So are you going to add some further info? Because the info that they released something on an internal channel doesn't tell us very much.
Well basically (I don't want to enter in any specifics) it reminds devs how to make it properly and a future update to make it "easier" (it is not that it is "difficult" now at all).
 

Dictator93

Member
Jun 29, 2011
23,813
4
660
Well basically (I don't want to enter in any specifics) it reminds devs how to make it properly and a future update to make it "easier" (it is not that it is "difficult" now at all).
That is awesome. Sucks you cannot share the details of it.
 

Elandyll

Banned
Oct 13, 2014
7,121
0
0
Arizona
Well basically (I don't want to enter in any specifics) it reminds devs how to make it properly and a future update to make it "easier" (it is not that it is "difficult" now at all).
Do you know if it was based on some conversion tools in the SDK (like, Direct X -> GNM/ GNMX), asking the devs to double check the AF instead of relying on automated conversions?

Maybe? :)

Yes/ No answer? Unless NDA of course :)
 

thelastword

Member
Apr 7, 2006
10,693
7,631
1,760
Well basically (I don't want to enter in any specifics) it reminds devs how to make it properly and a future update to make it "easier" (it is not that it is "difficult" now at all).
Great information, finally something is being done to make this problem disappear once and for all.
 

lherre

Accurate
Feb 6, 2007
1,741
0
0
www.beta-zero.com
Do you know if it was based on some conversion tools in the SDK (like, Direct X -> GNM/ GNMX), asking the devs to double check the AF instead of relying on automated conversions?

Maybe? :)

Yes/ No answer? Unless NDA of course :)
No, it is not that complicated.

I really don't know where the issue comes from to be honest (since you can use AF) but I think Sony knows about the "problem" and maybe they reacted to show devs how to "fix it" or to clarify if it is some misunderstanding about the process.
 

RoboPlato

I'd be in the dick
Oct 29, 2006
42,984
0
0
Well basically (I don't want to enter in any specifics) it reminds devs how to make it properly and a future update to make it "easier" (it is not that it is "difficult" now at all).
Excellent. Good to hear. Bring on the patches!

I hope Sony focuses on making more CPU and RAM available to devs now. Get rid of the huge, useless OS overhead.
 

Lumberjackson

Neo Member
Feb 20, 2015
35
0
0
If that Sony API is anything like OpenGL, this issue could be similar to a problem programmers occasionally run into when porting DX11 games to Linux or MacOS.
What it boils down to is essentially that in OpenGL you have to associate a texture sampler (basically a data structure that contains information about what type of filter to use, how to treat mip-map levels etc.) directly with a texture, prior to sending it to the shader, whereas in DX11 (and DX10 for that matter) samplers and textures are separate entities, so one can decide inside the shader which texture should be sampled using which sampler.
Although one would assume that 3rd party engines had taken care of that by now. Eh, just a wild-ass guess.
 

Javin98

Banned
Nov 30, 2014
6,851
0
0
Ipoh, Malaysia
Excellent. Good to hear. Bring on the patches!

I hope Sony focuses on making more CPU and RAM available to devs now. Get rid of the huge, useless OS overhead.
Agreed. The PS4 OS should not require more than 1GB of RAM to function. Imagine when devs have 7GB of RAM to use for games....
 

Inuhanyou

Believes Dragon Quest is a franchise managed by Sony
Jul 26, 2014
26,222
0
0
America
Good to hear.

Agreed. The PS4 OS should not require more than 1GB of RAM to function. Imagine when devs have 7GB of RAM to use for games....
Considering all the features to be coming down the pipe, that's unreasonable personally unless we want it to slow back down to a crawl like PS3's OS.

They have about 3gig's allocated right now to OS from my understanding with arond 5 for OS.

If they can lower the footprint to 2 with about 6 for games, it should be enough for the rest of the gen. Cause you also have to remember that the games can't use all 8 gigs to begin with based on the bandwidth the PS4 has to start. I've heard that with 176 G/persec is about 5.87 GB per frame
 

DOWN

Junior Member
Aug 2, 2011
24,381
8
835
EAST COAST, USA
Glad they are addressing it, but lame that it turns out developers were just overlooking it on PS4 even though it wasn't difficult.
 

thelastword

Member
Apr 7, 2006
10,693
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Agreed. The PS4 OS should not require more than 1GB of RAM to function. Imagine when devs have 7GB of RAM to use for games....
I agree, but I think there may be a few features Sony wants to implement in it's OS and featureset before they start giving back just yet. I'm sure that will come in time.
 

Javin98

Banned
Nov 30, 2014
6,851
0
0
Ipoh, Malaysia
Considering all the features to be coming down the pipe, that's unreasonable personally unless we want it to slow back down to a crawl like PS3's OS.

They have about 3gig's allocated right now to OS from my understanding with arond 5 for OS.

If they can lower the footprint to 2 with about 6 for games, it should be enough for the rest of the gen. Cause you also have to remember that the games can't use all 8 gigs to begin with based on the bandwidth the PS4 has to start. I've heard that with 176 G/persec is about 5.87 GB per frame
Optimization can do wonders, friend. Could you have imagined a game with epic set pieces like God Of War 3 & Ascension could be done on half a GB of RAM?

I agree, but I think there may be a few features Sony wants to implement in it's OS and featureset before they start giving back just yet. I'm sure that will come in time.
Yeah, it might take a while.
 

pixlexic

Banned
Nov 10, 2012
7,468
1
0
Glad they are addressing it, but lame that it turns out developers were just overlooking it on PS4 even though it wasn't difficult.
if AF was actually "OVERLOOKED" by developers then I have no more faith in the industry.
aka I cannot see how something so noticeable could be overlooked.
 

Inuhanyou

Believes Dragon Quest is a franchise managed by Sony
Jul 26, 2014
26,222
0
0
America
Optimization can do wonders, friend. Could have imagined a game with epic set pieces like God Of War 3 & Ascension could be done on half a GB of RAM.
Er...if you run out of bandwidth per frame, there isn't much optimization is going to do....i'm not sure exactly what bringing up those games has to do with pulling out more RAM than the system can physically use.
 

Javin98

Banned
Nov 30, 2014
6,851
0
0
Ipoh, Malaysia
Er...if you run out of bandwidth per frame, there isn't much optimization is going to do....i'm not sure exactly what bringing up those games has to do with pulling out more RAM than the system can physically use.
As devs get more experienced in developing games on the PS4, they will learn to build around the memory bandwidth of the PS4 to not let it run out while making the game look good. GOW3 & A are examples of that on PS3.
 

Elandyll

Banned
Oct 13, 2014
7,121
0
0
Arizona

Some people have a big problem with the Chromatic Aberration effect, added by some devs to their titles (one of the latest, or so I read, is Bloodborne, which imo looks fantastic).

I am not really sensitive to it and normally I do not even see it, so it generally doesn't bother me :shrug:
 

Raptor

Member
Mar 16, 2012
12,485
1
0
if AF was actually "OVERLOOKED" by developers then I have no more faith in the industry.
aka I cannot see how something so noticeable could be overlooked.
Doesnt someone has a checklist or something like that?

AA = check
AF = unchecked

Does that not turn on some red flags around? not to mention how you can actually look for it ingame.

Jeez..
 

Lumberjackson

Neo Member
Feb 20, 2015
35
0
0
If they can lower the footprint to 2 with about 6 for games, it should be enough for the rest of the gen. Cause you also have to remember that the games can't use all 8 gigs to begin with based on the bandwidth the PS4 has to start. I've heard that with 176 G/persec is about 5.87 GB per frame
What's that supposed to mean, do we want to read the entire content of the system's RAM and throw it at the screen once every frame or something? I don't get that part.
 

c0de

Member
Aug 22, 2012
8,460
65
540
It might not. But more RAM would mean higher res and more varied textures. Possibly even better LOD if performance allows it. I'm not sure if AF can be improved with more RAM.
Ram can only improve performance if you didn't have enough before. Ram doesn't compute in any way. More ram just means you can store more data, this is not related to resolution.