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PS5’s True “Generation-Defining” Games Won’t Come Until 2022 Says Jim Ryan

SkylineRKR

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It doesn't really matter. I said before I am perfectly fine with PS4 Pro and One X graphics. I think Tsushima etc look stellar. Even though these systems are 4 years old (most of its architecture technically 7). Those games at 60fps are fine with me honestly. Its the accessibility I feel the most happy about. The way the S boots up, loads games and quick resumes (its clearly still WIP, but its awesome). You get far more mileage out of them, like FH4 and Yak without any significant loading. Also tried TW3, excellent.

Games will come, and, I am happy with DeS for the coming weeks.
 

Dibils2k

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Jim Ryan says obvious thing that has been true for all generations -> Wccftech makes article pretending it's news -> Someone on NeoGAF makes thread pretending that's shocking.

Par for the course. 😂
yeah it is obvious but they spent the whole build up to the generation saying they believe in generations(and every pony was lapping it up), as in new gen means leaving the past behind, going as far as leaving it as late as possible to announce PS4 versions of some of their games

the fact they went back on it is news, since the other way was news too

stop pretending like it isnt
 
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FireFistAce

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GOW2 is a done deal. It's a 2021 game and Rian said 2022 for "generation defining games".

But yeah, that's the whole slate of actual ps5 sony exclusives: a pack-in demo for the dual sense, demon's souls and ratchet. They're going to have more crossgens which is my point of contention.
Having more cross-gen is fine - as long as there’s also current gen exclusives.
 
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Clear

Deer/Dur
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I keep asking for proof and noone seems to be able to give me any. Where are the receipts? There is no generational leap between Spiderman on PS4 and Spiderman MM on PS5. It's the same game engine, similar assets, etc.. How do you guys define a generational leap? Why does it only include a Sony game and not a 3rd party game? Surely they make leaps and bounds too.

I'm still looking for a game on the PS5 that is a complete overrun of the PS4 in image quality aside from the minor upscaled 4k and 60FPS.

As you've demonstrated in the past, and have shown throughout your comments in this thread, you are shockingly ignorant about game design and production.

I get it that you work in graphics, but you need to stop and consider that games are about more than just visualisation. The way games are constructed is and has always been extremely dependent on i/o. For example, imagine a scenario where you control a team of characters. Now naturally most of the time these individuals are partied up together, and thus share their local world-space.

Now, say situationally, for the purpose of a mission or story beat, these characters need to get split-up and placed in different locations. With the current gen this presents a problem as in order to present each area in as high-fidelity as expected (think not just geometry, but NPC population, everything that goes into presenting a differentiated location in the game world) its going to be using most of the available system ram. Switching between them fluidly on the fly is a problem when it takes a distracting amount of time to unload, reload and set-up the logic and mechanics for each place.

Streaming just doesn't cut it in such situations, so there needs to be compromises made in order to make it work. Typically stuff just gets cut, because its impractical for the flow of events to be constructed like that even if all these areas are actually fully built-out and used elsewhere in the campaign/story.

Near instant access to masses of data and assets is incredibly liberating for designers. The possibilities for both story and gameplay are endless.

Games are not like movies. They aren't a collage of discrete shots arranged offline in a certain order. They need to work mechanically, holistically, and dynamically.

The potential is there to change the entire grammar of game storytelling and structure because developers will no longer have to struggle to find ways to piece together disparate elements seamlessly. Unless you've actually worked in game production is hard to express how much of an albatross around our necks this has been for decades.

Basically its a problem as old as the industry, which is why the PS5's design ethos as expressed by Mark Cerny could prove transformative. Its why so many devs are high on the system -this is the first time such a performant i/o stack has been built within a fixed system architecture. The assurance that the performance is always there on every retail unit is crucial, because its got limited margins of tolerance. You can't lower the resolution of the design the same way you can when your renderer can't hit its frame budget.
 

megreotsugua

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As you've demonstrated in the past, and have shown throughout your comments in this thread, you are shockingly ignorant about game design and production.

I get it that you work in graphics, but you need to stop and consider that games are about more than just visualisation. The way games are constructed is and has always been extremely dependent on i/o. For example, imagine a scenario where you control a team of characters. Now naturally most of the time these individuals are partied up together, and thus share their local world-space.

Now, say situationally, for the purpose of a mission or story beat, these characters need to get split-up and placed in different locations. With the current gen this presents a problem as in order to present each area in as high-fidelity as expected (think not just geometry, but NPC population, everything that goes into presenting a differentiated location in the game world) its going to be using most of the available system ram. Switching between them fluidly on the fly is a problem when it takes a distracting amount of time to unload, reload and set-up the logic and mechanics for each place.

Streaming just doesn't cut it in such situations, so there needs to be compromises made in order to make it work. Typically stuff just gets cut, because its impractical for the flow of events to be constructed like that even if all these areas are actually fully built-out and used elsewhere in the campaign/story.

Near instant access to masses of data and assets is incredibly liberating for designers. The possibilities for both story and gameplay are endless.

Games are not like movies. They aren't a collage of discrete shots arranged offline in a certain order. They need to work mechanically, holistically, and dynamically.

The potential is there to change the entire grammar of game storytelling and structure because developers will no longer have to struggle to find ways to piece together disparate elements seamlessly. Unless you've actually worked in game production is hard to express how much of an albatross around our necks this has been for decades.

Basically its a problem as old as the industry, which is why the PS5's design ethos as expressed by Mark Cerny could prove transformative. Its why so many devs are high on the system -this is the first time such a performant i/o stack has been built within a fixed system architecture. The assurance that the performance is always there on every retail unit is crucial, because its got limited margins of tolerance. You can't lower the resolution of the design the same way you can when your renderer can't hit its frame budget.

Or doing this scenario in God of War streaming all the next-gen details without the fog.

 

OutRun88

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It’s fine, as long as they keep on delivering some exclusive gems like Astro’s Playroom, and some cross-gen sleepers like Sackboy: A Big Adventure I will keep throwing money at my PS5.
 
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Outlier

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2021 should have been the release date, for these systems. Not enough of anything to offer the masses and could polished all the big hitters by release.
 

Guilty_AI

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If they promise for 2022 then it will come only in 2024.
I bid you 2026, when they'll be hyping up the ps6. By 2022-2024 people'll already be on the "games are what matters, not power" phase of the console warring cycle.
 
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Darklor01

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Those of us who adopt PS5 day 1 and within the first year even want PS5 exclusive titles that take advantage of the system. There will be PS5 exclusive titles within the first years. Generation defining titles is an interesting statement. I wonder what games Jim classifies that way, and are they titles we don't know about yet.

As for the we believe in generations comment. It's similar to being the inverse of what Phil Spencer said about their ecosystem. Phil stated that games running on XBOX Series consoles also needed to be able to run on XBOX One consoles. Later, Phil stated that it could be up to developers whether or not to adhere to this. Now, Jim is hinting at cross-gen titles until at least 2022. While not shocking tbh, I don't recall Jim or PS saying PS5 titles also need to be able to be available to PS4, or that they wouldn't. It's all marketing spin.
 

thelastword

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I really want to know since when believing in generations means that there will be no cross gen games?

PS has never abandoned any of it's older consoles in a new gen launch......We already have a next gen looking Demon Souls, more will come.....
 

VFXVeteran

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Valhalla is not a game that should be discussed when mentioning true next gen offering's, it offer's a modest boost to quality of asset's through high polygon count's and more foliage - it/nor Spidey/nor Demons Souls/Nor anything actually released at this point is a true next gen title - and gamer's everywhere took notice when both Sony and Microsoft stated it will be 2022 at earliest before console specific next gen titles start showing up. 2023 in Microsoft's case.

Again you are putting an imaginary vision on what next-gen title means without knowing the specifics in graphics technology that will be on display. This is where developer (me) clashes with enthusiast (you). I know all the advanced techniques and the consoles can't do most of them at the same time for lack of power. There is only reason to continue to push through and implement some of the features that the PC has been doing for years now - mainly ray-tracing, higher res textures, more tessellation, finally 16x Anisotropic filtering, better draw distances, better volumetric approximation, and sharper shadows -- ALL at the same time. This will yield the best visual results. Period.

Valhalla, Avengers, Crysis REmake, Control, Metro Exodus, Cyberpunk, Watch Dogs: Legion, etc.. are all games when played on the PC on Ultra are completely unplayable on next-gen consoles and represent the latest tech in rendering. They implement most, if not all of said improvements ALL at the SAME TIME. This is how it is whether you like it or not.

You continue to throw MS into the mix when they are a multiplatform studio (Sony will be soon as well to a lesser degree) where their best efforts into the above paragraph I mentioned would be using the PC hardware - not the XSX. So that leaves you believing that Sony's PS5 will somehow implement all of those features at one time in a game to blow people's minds. The BIG problem is that the PS5 doesn't have the hardware to do it all at once... so you are stuck with piecemeal graphics - 1 RT feature, high res textures but not 8k textures, sharper shadows but less volume FX, upsampling 1440p instead of native 4k, no DLSS to improve performance enough to bridge the RT bottleneck, etc.. so logically, a PS5 will NOT nor EVER have the best and most tech implemented in a game to make a generational leap from today's games. It can only use the best choices and adhere to it's talent pool of artists. And that's just not going to be enough to leapfrog what's out there on PC right now like the games I mentioned.
 
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Clear

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Or doing this scenario in God of War streaming all the next-gen details without the fog.


Its not just the visuals, I'd bet that a huge chunk of the time spent on that sequence was choreographing it such that assets could be streamed in seamlessly without breaking the flow. "Hiding the joins" in multi-phase sequences like that, or any sort of "ride" presentation take tons of time to achieve, and in the end you are stuck with a rigid series of events, or at best one with limited branching. They also tend to eat tons of disk-space because the data needs to be carefully laid out in advance to facilitate low latency with the streaming.

The "dream" of the PS5 is that you can do more complex, more dynamic events with greater user agency at the same (or higher) fidelity thanks to the high performance of the i/o stack. More importantly thanks to the system effectively hiding the complexity of the data access and transferral processes it should be doable in a fraction of the time and without resorting to costly bespoke solutions.
 
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Hunnybun

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People need to calm down and wait and see. I'm disappointed that Horizon was announced as cross gen, but at the end of the day that's the only one announced so far that matters.

Miles Morales always LOOKED like a cross gen game, regardless of whether it actually came to PS4 or not, so it's not like we're missing anything there.

Sackboy is a cool little game, but it's not breaking any boundaries so no big deal there.

Demon's Souls and Ratchet are both PS5 only. They didn't have to be. Destruction Allstars should have been out by now, and that was never announced for PS4, even though it could certainly be pared down to run on it.

It's simply too early to say. If God of War and some others for next year become cross gen then yeah that'll be shit, but that'll be the time to complain, not now.
 

Hunnybun

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Again you are putting an imaginary vision on what next-gen title means without knowing the specifics in graphics technology that will be on display. This is where developer (me) clashes with enthusiast (you). I know all the advanced techniques and the consoles can't do most of them at the same time for lack of power. There is only reason to continue to push through and implement some of the features that the PC has been doing for years now - mainly ray-tracing, higher res textures, more tessellation, finally 16x Anisotropic filtering, better draw distances, better volumetric approximation, and sharper shadows -- ALL at the same time. This will yield the best visual results. Period.

Valhalla, Avengers, Crysis REmake, Control, Metro Exodus, Cyberpunk, Watch Dogs: Legion, etc.. are all games when played on the PC on Ultra are completely unplayable on next-gen consoles and represent the latest tech in rendering. They implement most, if not all of said improvements ALL at the SAME TIME. This is how it is whether you like it or not.

You continue to throw MS into the mix when they are a multiplatform studio (Sony will be soon as well to a lesser degree) where their best efforts into the above paragraph I mentioned would be using the PC hardware - not the XSX. So that leaves you believing that Sony's PS5 will somehow implement all of those features at one time in a game to blow people's minds. The BIG problem is that the PS5 doesn't have the hardware to do it all at once... so you are stuck with piecemeal graphics - 1 RT feature, high res textures but not 8k textures, sharper shadows but less volume FX, upsampling 1440p instead of native 4k, no DLSS to improve performance enough to bridge the RT bottleneck, etc.. so logically, a PS5 will NOT nor EVER have the best and most tech implemented in a game to make a generational leap from today's games. It can only use the best choices and adhere to it's talent pool of artists. And that's just not going to be enough to leapfrog what's out there on PC right now like the games I mentioned.

Yes once again you're pushing this idiotic line that you somehow get to make up the rules about what next gen visuals are in general and what they specifically constitute this time, because "me developer; you, fool".

You don't get to rewrite the language just cos you have some technical knowledge. It doesn't fucking work like that.

Where precisely do you think the phrase "next gen" comes from in the context of "next generation graphics"??????

It refers to the NEXT GENERATION OF CONSOLES. That's what it's always meant and that's how people in the normal(ish) world use it.

It's not synonymous with "absolutely cutting edge graphics technology" and never has been.

All your argument amounts to is "consoles are less powerful than PCs". Yes. WE KNOW. We don't CARE. It's irrelevant!!!

Next generation graphics are, BY DEFINITION, the graphics that next gen consoles are capable of producing.
 

VFXVeteran

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It's not synonymous with "absolutely cutting edge graphics technology" and never has been.

If this is what you truly believe, then why do you and all of your Sony warriors consistently talk about PS exclusives being the best looking games out of ALL platforms? Why is it that no other 3rd party developer can make the "best looking games"? Why do you tout features like RT reflections, excellent skin shaders, beautiful particle FX, etc.. if you aren't focusing on the graphics tech? You can't "draw" all of those features.

We had several threads of Sony guys declaring that Spiderman MM has the best implementation of RT out of every single game ever to come out - including extremely well done RT implementations like Crysis REmake (still no game to best it's RT GI implementation), Metro: Exodus' area lights with dynamic GI, Control's RT implementation of GI, shadows, AO, reflections, etc.. or Cyberpunk's area lights, reflections and AO. To me, when they make those claims, you should be making this statement just as well:

Yes once again PS5 console warriors are pushing this idiotic line that they somehow get to make up the rules about what next gen visuals are in general and what they specifically constitute this time


All your argument amounts to is "consoles are less powerful than PCs".

My argument is that you can't get generational leap in visual fidelity from last gen to this gen with the hardware limitations of the PS5.. BUT a PC has the hardware to actually provide that generational leap. This is what you guys don't like hearing... despite it being true.

Next generation graphics are, BY DEFINITION, the graphics that next gen consoles are capable of producing.

I can agree with this. If you guys keep your talk limited to CONSOLES ONLY - then we won't have problems. But when you start saying shit like "this is the first next-gen game including all the PC GAMES...", you immediately sound off the bullhorn for me to interject and remind you that your statement ONLY applies to consoles.
 
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supernova8

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For the people who are upset, what year do you think the first "Generation-Defining" PS4/Xbox One games were released? Was it year one? When they had less than 1.5 year on the hardware? Or was it like year 2/3? After they've had sufficient time with the hardware and actually started development completely on the new hardware? Like I'm not sure If people are actually upset or if some of you are just trolling :messenger_tears_of_joy:

I'd say Infamous was a looker, along with Killzone and they came out at/very close to launch. Driveclub came out about a year after PS4 launched and I'd argue it's still one of the best looking racing games ever. This is all within 12 months of launch - and these were not cross-gen games.
 

Bryank75

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That guy is wishing upon a star.

Those words are so misleading and that's why people expect CGI graphics from nothing but a mid-low end graphics card. It's not in the cards.

All the bandwidth is already taken up in higher pixel count.

You heard it hear first, you will NOT see any kind of features that the PC GPUs struggle with on next-gen consoles. Period. All the 3d features that are already out is all you'll get. I can see an UE5 demo turning into a game but that's not much better than what we see today tbh.

Wait for PS6/PS7 or XSX3. PC is already showing the max visual tech features you can get and the consoles can't run them all.

Valorant?

or Among us?
 
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supernova8

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My argument is that you can't get generational leap in visual fidelity from last gen to this gen with the hardware limitations of the PS5.. BUT a PC has the hardware to actually provide that generational leap. This is what you guys don't like hearing... despite it being true.

I would argue the polar opposite. While PCs have technically facilitated the creation of the PS4 and now the PS5 (APUs that originated in PCs/laptops), to me it seems clear that the consoles are the technology drivers. There are no/very few games (currently available) designed around super fast SSDs because the old gen consoles didn't have super fast SSDs.

Even if you could get a super fast PC (with a really fast NVME SSD and a 2080 Ti) and play RDR2 or the Witcher 3 at 4K with all the bells and whistles, they are fundamentally the same experience as console, no?

Surely it's the consoles, not PCs, that define the new baseline.
 
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Hunnybun

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If this is what you truly believe, then why do you and all of your Sony warriors consistently talk about PS exclusives being the best looking games out of all platforms? Why is it that no other 3rd party developer can make the "best looking games"? Why do you tout features like RT reflections, excellent skin shaders, beautiful particle FX, etc.. if you aren't focusing on the graphics tech? You can't "draw" all of those features.

We had several threads of Sony guys declaring that Spiderman MM has the best implementation of RT out of every single game ever to come out - including extremely well done RT implementations like Crysis REmake (still no game to best it's RT GI implementation), Metro: Exodus' area lights with dynamic GI, Control's RT implementation of GI, shadows, AO, reflections, etc.. or Cyberpunk's area lights, reflections and AO. To me, when they make those claims, you should be making this statement just as well:






My argument is that you can't get generational leap in visual fidelity from last gen to this gen with the hardware limitations of the PS5.. BUT a PC has the hardware to actually provide that generational leap. This is what you guys don't like hearing... despite it being true.



I can agree with this. If you guys keep your talk limited to CONSOLES ONLY - then we won't have problems. But when you start saying shit like "this is the first next-gen game including all the PC GAMES...", you immediately sound off the bullhorn for me to interject and remind you that your statement ONLY applies to consoles.

You're obsessed with "Sony guys" aren't you?
I'm not a Sony guy. I'm a console guy, perhaps - I tend to think PC gaming is a waste of money - but whatever. I'll consider buying an Xbox when MS gets its shit together in about 2 years. Until then, nope.

I don't remember eulogising Sony 1st party graphics particularly. Although, being prompted, I'm happy to say that I think they do consistently make the best looking games. That's one of the reasons I've gone with Sony the last 2 generations, tbh.

Obviously the most demanding PC games can't run on console. That's just stating the obvious. And I can't give the best testimony on this because I don't have a PC, but from everything I've seen I'd probably say that the best looking games last gen were on the PS4 Pro rather than PC, at least before considering frame rate. TLOU2, among others, looks better than any PC game I've seen running at Ultra. Except perhaps for RDR 2. Yeah that does look stunning. But the others you mentioned, I think look inferior in screenshots, despite the fact they probably couldn't run smoothly on PS5, let alone PS4.

I just don't think Ultra settings do much for a game. Really good RT can, but I've yet to see it applied to an attractive game, so overall the best stuff on PS4 still looks nicer. To me, anyway.

If I understand you right, you're saying that no game on PS5 will look as good as Valhalla on PC at Ultra?

I'm sorry but that's so mental I don't know where to begin.

Miles Morales looks better than Valhalla on ultra. Demon's Souls looks WAY better. Ratchet & Clank looks a generation better.

Unreal 5 demo looks 2 generations better!!

And so on.
 
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Hunnybun

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I would argue the polar opposite. While PCs have technically facilitated the creation of the PS4 and now the PS5 (APUs that originated in PCs/laptops), to me it seems clear that the consoles are the technology drivers. There are no/very few games (currently available) designed around super fast SSDs because the old gen consoles didn't have super fast SSDs.

Even if you could get a super fast PC (with a really fast NVME SSD and a 2080 Ti) and play RDR2 or the Witcher 3 at 4K with all the bells and whistles, they are fundamentally the same experience as console, no?

Surely it's the consoles, not PCs, that define the new baseline.

Absolutely.

PCs were great 15 years ago when they still had AAA games made specifically for them, but Crysis was a long, LONG, time ago now.

Now they just add a few bells and whistles and up the frame rate and pixels. It's not nothing but it's a terrible return for a £1k+ GPU.

This generation they might become more relevant again if RT improves enough, cos that's something you can slap on top of existing graphics and really transform them, in a way the other techniques VFX likes to masturbate about simply don't.
 

DeepEnigma

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You're obsessed with "Sony guys" aren't you?
I'm not a Sony guy. I'm a console guy, perhaps - I tend to think PC gaming is a waste of money - but whatever. I'll consider buying an Xbox when MS gets its shit together in about 2 years. Until then, nope.

I don't remember eulogising Sony 1st party graphics particularly. Although, being prompted, I'm happy to say that I think they do consistently make the best looking games. That's one of the reasons I've gone with Sony the last 2 generations, tbh.

Obviously the most demanding PC games can't run on console. That's just stating the obvious. And I can't give the best testimony on this because I don't have a PC, but from everything I've seen I'd probably say that the best looking games last gen were on the PS4 Pro rather than PC, at least before considering frame rate. TLOU2, among others, looks better than any PC game I've seen running at Ultra. Except perhaps for RDR 2. Yeah that does look stunning. But the others you mentioned, I think look inferior in screenshots, despite the fact they probably couldn't run smoothly on PS5, let alone PS4.

I just don't think Ultra settings do much for a game. Really good RT can, but I've yet to see it applied to an attractive game, so overall the best stuff on PS4 still looks nicer. To me, anyway.

If I understand you right, you're saying that no game on PS5 will look as good as Valhalla on PC at Ultra?

I'm sorry but that's so mental I don't know where to begin.

Miles Morales looks better than Valhalla on ultra. Demon's Souls looks WAY better. Ratchet & Clank looks a generation better.

Unreal 5 demo looks 2 generations better!!

And so on.

You are arguing with the same dude who said the first HZD on the PC, will look better than HZD2 on the PS5.

He is as much of a homer he accuses everyone else of, only as you said, obsessed with "owning PS fans."
 
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VFXVeteran

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I would argue the polar opposite. While PCs have technically facilitated the creation of the PS4 and now the PS5 (APUs that originated in PCs/laptops), to me it seems clear that the consoles are the technology drivers. There are no/very few games (currently available) designed around super fast SSDs because the old gen consoles didn't have super fast SSDs.

The PC has always been the technology driver. All of our conferences that I go to talk about innovation independent of platform. All of the R&D is done on PC hardware. It always has. Most companies (before this new release of AMD cards) bought Nvidia boards and did all of the R&D on them for new graphics techniques. I spent a week at MS back in 2017 to learn their new HoloLens tech. We all used Unity (a multiplatform graphics engine), laptops, Visual Studio, and yep.. Nvidia boards. This is just an example of what actually goes on that 99% of users don't know. So I can honestly tell you that this is what's going on factually. This is not my opinion. This is fact.

An SSD is going to leverage faster loading first and foremost but then may introduce high bandwidth streaming for higher res assets. But do you really think that's the most important component in technology right now? Can you honestly say that the SSD is more important to a game's visuals than RT?

Even if you could get a super fast PC and play RDR2 or the Witcher 3 at 4K with all the bells and whistles, they are fundamentally the same experience as console, no?

Every game will have the same experience from platform to platform or settings to settings. I don't think that's what we are discussing here.

Surely it's the consoles, not PCs, that define the new baseline.

New baseline for settings but not overall tech. Since the PC can do more, it lends itself that you'd make better assets, implement the most complex features and then tone them down for the consoles.
 

VFXVeteran

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You are arguing with the same dude who said the first HZD on the PC, will look better than HZD2 on the PS5.

You mention that as if that is an absolute ridiculous statement. It has YET to be shown that it is absurd as you are trying to state it.

Once again,

1) HZD2 is cross platform AND will be available on the PC.
2) HZD2's trailer was declared 'next-gen' and amazing looking when it was simply more of the same in a cinematic with different art assets.
3) HZD1 on the PC has quite a few enhancements from HZD on PS4 which will more than likely make it to HZD2 on PS5 (even NXGamer NXGamer mentioned this in his review of HZD1 on PC).
4) HZD1 on PC will be able to run at 60FPS native 4k. HZD2 will not be able to run 60FPS on PS5 native 4k.

At worse, HZD2 will look better than HZD1 PC because it will have higher resolution textures. It won't be because it has more features than the PC version of HZD1 unless those features weren't there to begin with (i.e. RT reflections). In which case, my claim would be reduced to simply HZD2 on PS5 won't be a generational leap over HZD1 on PC and the two would be separated by simply features that they introduced into the game. Think more of Spiderman MM upgrade from Spiderman as a logical point of comparison.
 
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DeepEnigma

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At worse, HZD2 will look better than HZD1 PC because it will have higher resolution textures. It won't be because it has more features than the PC version of HZD1 unless those features weren't there to begin with (i.e. RT reflections). In which case, my claim would be reduced to simply HZD2 on PS5 won't be a generational leap over HZD1 on PC and the two would be separated by simply features that they introduced into the game. Think more of Spiderman MM upgrade from Spiderman as a logical point of comparison.

Ok :messenger_weary::messenger_ok:

We shall cross that bridge when we get there. I will humbly say, "you right" if the only added features are "better textures" over their first game, but something tells me knowing how Guerilla likes to push their tech and engine, it will be much more than the first. And you will probably move the goalposts when the time comes, per usual.
 
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Mobilemofo

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Maybe it was a good thing I couldn't get hold of a playstation 5. Get the first few waves of machines out the way, pick it up around Feb/march. Also, don't forget covid people. It has fucked up alot of people's shit.
 

VFXVeteran

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Ok :messenger_weary::messenger_ok:

We shall cross that bridge when we get there. I will humbly say, "you right" if the only added features are "better textures" over their first game, but something tells me knowing how Guerilla likes to push their tech and engine, it will be much more than the first. And you will probably move the goalposts when the time comes, per usual.

Again, you still assume unlimited power from the PS. The developers have to work with what they have. The PS5 is a 1440p console. Trying to push fidelity higher will reduce the amount of tech you can put into the game. Art will be 1:1 comparison easily since same teams. It reduces down to what do they want to add and what will they have to take away.

Also the elephant in the room that you are not considering is that their engine is now designed around PC support. It will not have any "secret sauce" to squeeze more power as people hope. 2 branches of code is not an efficient pipeline by any means so it will resort to being like all the other AAA game engines.
 
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Hunnybun

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No, I don't assume shit. You're fucking delusional and just make shit up and project WHAT YOU THINK WE THINK.

You're insufferable. Seek help. "Industry Professional" you need to seek one, for your cabezón.

Hahaha yeah basically that's what it boils down to.

Fucking fruit loop.
 
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Phase

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Just about the time I'll be buying one lol. So far my game list for PS5:

Demon's Souls Remake
Ratchet and Clank
Horizon Forbidden West
Elden Ring (my guess is it will release on the newer consoles too)
Black Myth Wukong
Biomutant (dev said it will come to new consoles)
Kena Bridge of Spirits

Not a bad start if I say so myself.
 

DeepEnigma

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Who's really delusional here? :messenger_tears_of_joy:

Where did I say, "UNLIMITED POWER"? Parsing sentences and reading comprehension are not your strong suits are they?

I said the engine will be doing much more (than just better textures that you are going with), that is a safe bet going by how all engines evolve every gen.

Much more =/= unlimited power.

Clown ass shit.
 
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devilNprada

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Oh right.. Valhalla running on 3090 at 96% GPU usage is equivalent to the consoles running that game at 30% GPU usage.. They have so much more to go!!

If you go all the way back to page 1 when I replied and then watched the replies of people.. it is quite hilarious how much hatred for what I say shows through from the Sony guys...

You quoted him first then play victim?
 
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VFXVeteran

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Where did I say, "UNLIMITED POWER"? Parsing sentences and reading comprehension are not your strong suits are they?

I said the engine will be doing much more (than just better textures that you are going with), that is a safe bet going by how all engines evolve every gen.

Much more =/= unlimited power.

Clown ass shit.

Much more because you aren't looking at specific limitations in the console nor are you defining what "much more" would mean. When I challenge you to give specifics, you immediately throw the kitchen sink at me because you can't give them. That's not my fault.

Let's start becoming aware of limitations and stating those before you imagine "Much more".

Step 1:

Admit that the PS5 is a 1440p console with very limited RT capabilities. Use the facts of the games that are coming out and how many features they are able to implement at 4k/30FPS -- which is ONE feature.

Step 2:

Much more of a difference from HZD1 to HZD2 will entail a new lighting system. Using the conventional pre-baked lighting system with only 1 dynamic light source in the game isn't going to reach that "much more" milestone.

Step 3:

Define what "much more" would mean in order to get there based on what the game does now. More complex shaders? Higher fidelity textures (2k to 4k)? How much bandwidth would that cost?


etc.. etc..

It's not very hard to make good assessments for what you think a game may look like based on what you already know and what limits you can impose on the hardware. That's much much better than assuming "devs can do wonders somehow.. and GG can work magic somehow to add everything to the pot while keeping the same limitations in hardware.."
 
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You quoted him first then play victim?

That's not how this started..

That guy is wishing upon a star.

Those words are so misleading and that's why people expect CGI graphics from nothing but a mid-low end graphics card. It's not in the cards.

All the bandwidth is already taken up in higher pixel count.

You heard it hear first, you will NOT see any kind of features that the PC GPUs struggle with on next-gen consoles. Period. All the 3d features that are already out is all you'll get. I can see an UE5 demo turning into a game but that's not much better than what we see today tbh.

Wait for PS6/PS7 or XSX3. PC is already showing the max visual tech features you can get and the consoles can't run them all.

FFS here we go.

Obsessed.