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Rumor PS5 - Still possible backwards compatibility for pre PS4 games?

Kupfer

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I hope this thread doesn't exist yet, at least I haven't found a similar one.

In connection with the rumors that Sony wants to close the PS3/VITA store, a patent filed by Sony late last year might fuel further rumors about emulated games on the PS5.


Link to said patent


A computer-implemented method assigns one or more trophies to a user. A game is emulated in response to a request from a client device. A trophy trigger is detected during emulation of the game by comparing a memory value of the emulated game to a predetermined value and assigning the one or more trophies to the user based on the detected trophy trigger.

We are talking about emulated games where trophies can be unlocked.


Time for some speculation :

-can we hope for a more complete backwards compatibility after all
or
-will Sony "revive" old games, similar to PS2 games on the PS4 and market them as PS5 games in the store? (like GTA:3/VC/SA for example)

If there is something to it, the second approach sounds more logical to me, since I can't imagine that Sony would close the PS3/VITA store on the one hand, but make these games playable for free on the PS5 on the other.

Anyway, any kind of more widespread backwards compatibility would make me really happy.
 
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DonJorginho

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Would be nice but as Methos#1975 Methos#1975 said this is just a recycled patent, Jimbo hates old games the Geordie fecker, so I bet my limited edition Match Attax collection we won't see any BC support for pre PS4 games for A LONG TIME if ever.
 
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EDMIX

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I hope this thread doesn't exist yet, at least I haven't found a similar one.

In connection with the rumors that Sony wants to close the PS3/VITA store, a patent filed by Sony late last year might fuel further rumors about emulated games on the PS5.


Link to said patent


A computer-implemented method assigns one or more trophies to a user. A game is emulated in response to a request from a client device. A trophy trigger is detected during emulation of the game by comparing a memory value of the emulated game to a predetermined value and assigning the one or more trophies to the user based on the detected trophy trigger.

We are talking about emulated games where trophies can be unlocked.


Time for some speculation :

-can we hope for a more complete backwards compatibility after all
or
-will Sony "revive" old games, similar to PS2 games on the PS4 and market them as PS5 games in the store? (like GTA:3/VC/SA for example)

If there is something to it, the second approach sounds more logical to me, since I can't imagine that Sony would close the PS3/VITA store on the one hand, but make these games playable for free on the PS5 on the other.

Anyway, any kind of more widespread backwards compatibility would make me really happy.
You are honestly better off just getting those older systems used. As someone that owns all the older PS systems, I only really go back to play a small amount, like I play the Onimusha seires maybe once every 2 years or so or Killer 7 or Viewtiful Joe or the Xenosaga series.

I don't think its really worth waiting 2 or 3 generations for such a thing. If they add BC, great, if they don't....I'm still playing Onimusha 2 on that classic PS2 or PS3 fat lol The time spent waiting for BC is legit time wasted that could have just played those games and been done with them for several generations. Looking back, I don't even really play THAT much from those generations outside a handful of titles. Even the ones I like the MOST like MGS3, GTA SA, God Of War, Resident Evil 4 etc get remastered and just have better versions generations later. So I don't know if I'd hold out for them adding BC cause they also filed something like this before PS4 came out.

The fact that you saw Sony port Patapon, Loco Roco, Gravity Rush....that should show you something. They are more likely to just upgrade those games and be done with it. As in, even the BEST PS2 games by Sony will likely see ports, remasters, remakes etc. So after you get a SoTC remake, we need a PS2 version in BC for PS4 and PS5, even with a HD version on PS3 and a remake on PS4 that works on PS5? So I'd say Sony has a better chance of remastering or remaking a lot of those classics then us getting some magical BC thing that works with all generations. I'd be happy if they did do it mind you, simply that after several generations, its just not on my radar already playing those titles to death over the years lol
 
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ANIMAL1975

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I can only hope so. I have a dead ps3 (only gen i didn't sell the previous system because ps4 wasn't BC), and i don't want to have to be forced to get it fixed, because i prefer the convenience of having a new console that can play all my games of the previous gens (preferably enhanced of course) and all the ones that i eventually still have the willing to buy in the future.
... And i have a ton of ps3 digital games (ps plus and owned) just sitting there in the clouds waiting for me bra.
 
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Captain Toad

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This isn't really that new a patent, Sony filed a similar patent in 2013 that everyone and their mother stated meant BC was coming to the PS4. We are still waiting.......

Speak for your own mother. Mine never thought it was coming to PS4.
 
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SilentUser

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Don't put your hopes up, even though it might happen one day. There were no technological reasons to not release PSOne titles on the PS4, for instance, but PSP and PS Vita had access to them.

It is only a financial decision, imo.
 
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SSfox

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I really hope so specially now that we know they gonna close psn of most classic PS plateforms. Jimbo better stop putting his energy into porting playstation games to PC and put that energy in a much much much much *****infinity********much more interesting thing, which is making PS5 BC with PS123/PSP/VITA.
 
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93xfan

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With their patent and history with PS2 digital games not transferring from the PS3>PS4, I expect them to charge again for every game. So if you bought a PS1 game on PS3, expect to have to buy it again.
 

ManaByte

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With their patent and history with PS2 digital games not transferring from the PS3>PS4, I expect them to charge again for every game. So if you bought a PS1 game on PS3, expect to have to buy it again.
 

Dr Bass

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I wouldn't count on any of this. It's a shame too, and that's putting it mildly.
 

Mikey Jr.

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BC with PS1-3 is very possible at some point in the future. They can't keep manufacturing PS3s just for PS now, eventually they're gonna have to move the service to newer hardware and that probably means emulation.

Didn't one of the PS3 models use software emulation for PS2 games?
 
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BootsLoader

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Why im still here.....just to suffer?
the games I lost..... the backwards compatibility I lost.....the hope I lost...
You can feel it too right? (Donna Burke “sins of the father“ plays in the backgroun)
 
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Kupfer

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BC with PS1-3 is very possible at some point in the future. They can't keep manufacturing PS3s just for PS now, eventually they're gonna have to move the service to newer hardware and that probably means emulation.

I can't believe they use real PS3 hardware for the PSNow streaming service. I think they already have really powerful emulators for their own use.

Didn't one of the PS3 models use software emulation for PS2 games?

You can unlock it on the PS3 Slim for example. I did it myself and emulation plays PSP games kind of ok, but for my test with NFSU2, the game ran at a really poor performance like in between 10-20 fps. Also I read about the console might getting too hot using emulation.

Oh, it's certainly possible. The question is whether Sony is motivated enough to make it happen.
I guess not . That would mean making a customer-friendly move without maximising profits.
 

turtlepowa

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I don't think so and regarding to the internet not too many Sony fans seem to like BC older than last gen.
 

assurdum

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Would be great BC for the whole playstation generations. Can you imagine? Millions of games. But Ryan as many old man it's quite conservative and doesn't give a fuck to the gamers enthusiasm, it's just about more revenues, safe position and minimum investment. Really hope he goes soon to home. He is quite old, time to leave the place to a more enthusiastic younger lead. I'm tired of person as this in the industry. I really missed Shu and I wasn't even a big fan of him but his vision was quite more opened and less geriatric.
 
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RAIDEN1

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Sony has flopped BIG time when it comes to backward compatibility, its not as if they lost money having the capability on PS3! As I have stated in previous threads to this day some of the games from the PS1-3 era have not been bettered to this day, even with the increased power- case in point Top Spin 4....the best tennis game on the market since 2011!! Metal Gear 1-3/Peace-walker better than the boring MGS-5! Jade Empire, Republic Commando....Command and Conqueor...Virtua Fighter 4.....Panzer Dragoon Orta...Ridge Racer!!! Pure! Blur! Alpha Protocol! James Bond Blood-stone (there isn't even a bond game on the PS4/5-Xbox-X!)
 
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Trimesh

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Didn't one of the PS3 models use software emulation for PS2 games?

Soft of - there are signs in the old firmware that at one point they were planning to use a purely software emulator with support for reading physical media (ps2_softemu), but this was removed and replaced by a version (ps2_netemu) that could only run downloaded titles. Since it has a lot of title-specific hacks just to support the limited range of games that were on PSN I strongly suspect that Sony just decided that trying to get it to the point where it could run every one of the titles ever released on disc was going to be far more effort than it was worth - and releasing the games on PSN both enabled charging for them and limited the use of the emulator to selected titles where it had reasonable performance.
 

Zeroing

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All big companies do patents, does not mean it will be available to consumers, most are just ideas that they cannot implement and they are protecting themselves
 

Zeroing

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Would be great BC for the whole playstation generations. Can you imagine? Millions of games. But Ryan as many old man it's quite conservative and doesn't give a fuck to the gamers enthusiasm, it's just about more revenues, safe position and minimum investment. Really hope he goes soon to home. He is quite old, time to leave the place to a more enthusiastic younger lead. I'm tired of person as this in the industry. I really missed Shu and I wasn't even a big fan of him but his vision was quite more opened and less geriatric.
Come on, we all know Jim is the next generation Sony's Aibo Robot... Sony will fix it, they are still beta testing it.

ok now seriously. I think the biggest problem are the heads of Sony, because, Playstation is not independent, If they decide playstation next move is to cut the fat, no matter who is in charge on Playstation, they will have to follow orders.
We already know there's some unlogic moves going on in Sony.

Also Shu is not the savior of playstation, he closed some studios back when he was in charge but he was approachable and connected with users of PS, Jim is a robot in comparison.

Anyway good luck Sony, you will need it.
 

JohnnyFootball

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Make them all 4K/60 and give them trophy support then I am GAME!!!!!

I wish MS would add achievements to older Xbox games. Of course, all I'd really play is the 4 Splinter Cell games.
 

Agent X

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I can't believe they use real PS3 hardware for the PSNow streaming service. I think they already have really powerful emulators for their own use.

They do use modified versions of real PS3 hardware for PS Now, and have done so ever since the service's inception in 2014. At that time, that was the most practical and viable solution to run those games with full compatibility.

Many people have speculated that Sony could create a PS3 emulator for PS5, and use that to run PS3 games (possibly even with enhanced performance) once they start installing PS5 hardware into the back end of PS Now. No one knows this for sure, and again it's just speculation, but it would make a lot of sense for them to do this, for a multitude of reasons. If this does happen, then there's a possibility they could eventually enable this feature on consumer PS5 systems to allow users to play their PS3 discs and/or downloadable games.
 
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SkylineRKR

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This is dead. Sony also silently killed PS2 support since my PS2 classics run awful on PS5. No new game was added in ages.
 

billyxci

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or...maybe sony doesn't give a fuck cause people will still buy their new console no matter what. there's like 2 exclusive games worth playing on the PS5 right now and everyone is going crazy trying to get one. don't blindly throw money at a company then start moaning when they do the absolute bare minimum all the time.
 

sainraja

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I wouldn't be surprised if Sony was investing or at the least looking into how they can offer backwards compatibility (specially from a PS3 perspective), given that it is trending again. It should be (assumption) fairly easy for them to offer us BC for PS1/PS2 games. PS1 they were pretty much emulating on the PS3 so they should just redo that for PS5.
 
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sainraja

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or...maybe sony doesn't give a fuck cause people will still buy their new console no matter what. there's like 2 exclusive games worth playing on the PS5 right now and everyone is going crazy trying to get one. don't blindly throw money at a company then start moaning when they do the absolute bare minimum all the time.
I doubt that since they are ultimately a business and the main reason Sony stopped investing into BC was because of what they learned about offering BC with the PS2/PS3 (it was that people don't spend a lot of time with it) but things could be different now or the ones that are interested are speaking louder than everyone else but honestly I can't think of anyone who would actually so NO to the feature even if they plan on not using it that heavily. So they might already be re-evaluating that position given the competition positioning it as such a high value feature.
 
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Clear

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Make them all 4K/60 and give them trophy support then I am GAME!!!!!

I wish MS would add achievements to older Xbox games. Of course, all I'd really play is the 4 Splinter Cell games.

The further you go back the fewer games will be able to run at enhanced frame-rates without issue. As I've remarked before if a game from the PS1/PS2 era didn't also have a PC build made simultaneously its likely that the game-logic is tied to frame-rate.

Simply because there was no need to separate the two when a fixed spec was the only build target, and even if there was a secondary platform it may not have actually shared code to a significant degree.

I'd suspect that upscale and clean-up both iq and frame-rate is the best you should realistically expect pre PS3, which is in itself a whole other can of worms due to its radically different architecture basically demanding it be on a code-fork of its own.
 

Rayderism

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Well, just like the PS4, the PS5 can't read CD's, so forget PS1 and some PS2 games. Digital-only BC isn't real BC if I am expected to buy games I already own physically all over again. Then, they would only have a severely limited selection of digital games anyway. I have no hope for any REAL BC expansion on PS5.
 
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JohnnyFootball

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The further you go back the fewer games will be able to run at enhanced frame-rates without issue. As I've remarked before if a game from the PS1/PS2 era didn't also have a PC build made simultaneously its likely that the game-logic is tied to frame-rate.

Simply because there was no need to separate the two when a fixed spec was the only build target, and even if there was a secondary platform it may not have actually shared code to a significant degree.

I'd suspect that upscale and clean-up both iq and frame-rate is the best you should realistically expect pre PS3, which is in itself a whole other can of worms due to its radically different architecture basically demanding it be on a code-fork of its own.
We will see what happens. Hope for the best.
 
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We are talking about emulated games where trophies can be unlocked.
This has been in the emulation scene for years now:

I don't really care for achievements, I would just like them to use that emulation layer to make it easier for publishers to make their old games readily available on the PS5--preferably with resolution and frame rate enhancements whenever it's possible.
Well, just like the PS4, the PS5 can't read CD's, so forget PS1 and some PS2 games. Digital-only BC isn't real BC if I am expected to buy games I already own physically all over again. Then, they would only have a severely limited selection of digital games anyway. I have no hope for any REAL BC expansion on PS5.
Backward compatibility means that the new platform can run binaries from the old one.

and the PS2 has DVD, not CD... The only machine we would need to be 100% digital is the PS1.

Anyway, right now we don't have a console that has an actual backward compatibility option. Even the xbox side is stretching the definition quite a lot, it supports relatively few games and even if you have the disc you need to download a binary for OG/360 games to run on the new machine, they know it's a relatively small number of people who will advocate for the feature because they can use their disc, the actual use is for padding the GamePass number of games + sell the digital versions (which are both fine goals, and letting those who have the disc use it for free is also much better than locking the feature behind a digital purchase for those who already have the physical media).

Anyway, we have no viable option other than homebrewed emulators and PC versions if we want to be able to play these games in the long run.
 
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Rayderism

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Yes, PS2 uses DVD, but there are a number (over 400) of PS2 games that were still on CD. That was what I was referring to as far as physical BC possiblities.
 
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Agent X

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Well, just like the PS4, the PS5 can't read CD's, so forget PS1 and some PS2 games.

As I posted here a few weeks ago:

I'm not sure about PS5, but PS4 most definitely contains a CD laser, as the official specifications state. It might not contain software that can interpret the data on compact discs (such as music CDs or PS1 games), but the necessary hardware is present.

To clarify further, Sony would need to release either a firmware update or a separate application if they want to enable the system to interpret a music CD, or to play PS1/PS2 games on CD.

It's similar to how Wii and Wii U actually contain a DVD drive, but they can't play DVD movies. Those systems don't have the software that's needed to interpret a movie disc.
 
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