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PSeye/Kinect. uhhh, any games actually supporting these at launch?
- Thread starter Flo_Evans
- Start date
attached headset.
XANDER CAGE
Member
What's the extent of the support these X1 launch games have? Are any of them integral to the experience (I assume Kinect Sports and Zoo Tycoon would), or are most of them like, optional voice commands or menu navigation things?
I really wish they would demo this, if it works well it would be pretty amazing. I wonder if the PS camera could do this also or if kinect has something extra? AFAIK the PS camera is just a stereoscopic WXGA cam?
ahh, thats right.
It really baffles me why MSFT isn't showcasing these features, if done right, it could be really immersive and a trump card for people on the fence.
REMEMBER CITADEL
Banned
Kinect has a lot of extra, but that doesn't mean that the PS4 camera couldn't offer head tracking in some shape or form.
I don't believe any of them are just menu navigation. Most are not absolutely necessary, but could be cool if integrated correctly. Head tracking for Forza, head tracking and lean in BF4, voice and body movement capture for Project Spark, rolling/kicking and such in Crimson Dragon, etc.
I would say most aren't completely throw away, although some might prefer to just use a controller.
Yeah I meant to say does the extra stuff in Kinect allow it.
What kind of connector are on the cameras? I wonder if I could hack the PS camera into a 3d helmet cam.
Alx
Member
The PS camera should be able to do head tracking too, I'm not even sure it would need to use stereovision for that. It may be slightly more CPU expensive than with a kinect since there are more ambiguities in a 2D image, but it's been done with regular webcams before.
OverBlood 3
Banned
Stop whining!
I had no idea what games are supporting the kinect/pseye, neither companies are doing a good job informing people as why you should waste money on these peripherals. So far there's nothing meaningful coming out of either side, not that there ever was.
See, but does DICE include the camera features at the cost of losing Vita play? I see no support for the Eye.
schwabdizzle
Banned
What kind of tech is in the Eye? I can't find shit on the internet about it.
Alx
Member
Full specs :
It's basically a stereo pair (two cameras taped together
) plus a microphone array. Cameras can be used either independently (one with high framerate for precise Move/controller tracking, one with high resolution for pretty image), or simultaneously for depth measurement. In the last case, most of the processing is probably handled by the PS4. Sony mostly gives "silhouette extraction" as the main feature using depth measurement, no mention on full body tracking.Most face-focused features (identification, tracking) can be done with a single camera, in my opinion.
schwabdizzle
Banned
Full specs :
It's basically a stereo pair (two cameras taped together
Most face-focused features (identification, tracking) can be done with a single camera, in my opinion.
Thanks. That helps a little cause my old lady wants just dance but i dont want it if she has to hold a controller.
as far as I know, the ONLY things for the PS4 camera specifically at launch are:
PlayRoom
video chat
PiP commentary for streaming
PSN account login/selection with facial recognition
Yup $60 well spent!!! (jk.. I have it on my TV right now..)
Sitting on my TV too. YOU MEAN THERE'S NO EA SPORTS GAME FACE OPTION FOR THE CAMERA?
PS Camera can do everything Kinect can do. However I believe Kinect's greyscale camera is actually a TOF camera as well, meaning it should be able to resolve depth much finer and more accurately than PS Camera's stereo optics. The rest of the cool shit (skeletons, tracking, etc) is all software based on 360/XBONE, but the fact that it is going to start with a more detailed image (that is not as greatly affected by lighting to boot) means Kinect 2 by default will do a better job.
Given the R&D cost difference and console price difference, it also means MS is going to be much more under the microscope of providing value from Kinect 2, whereas there's not much stopping Sony from leaving us camera buyers out there dangling in the wind (cough PSEYE cough)
This is opposed to Kinect 2 which one camera is capturing 32-bit color information while the other one is doing motion tracking and time-of-flight in IR space.
Given the R&D cost difference and console price difference, it also means MS is going to be much more under the microscope of providing value from Kinect 2, whereas there's not much stopping Sony from leaving us camera buyers out there dangling in the wind (cough PSEYE cough)
just stereo 1280x800 cameras capturing in RAW or YUV colorspace. Really nothing amazing. They derive depth from the fact that they are capturing in stereo (i.e. a pretty typical 3D camera)
This is opposed to Kinect 2 which one camera is capturing 32-bit color information while the other one is doing motion tracking and time-of-flight in IR space.
Here's the info Sony told developers/media back at GDC in March:
Eurogamer/Digital Foundry
The light fantastic
Sony confirmed that the lightbar on the controller is indeed used to track player location in the room - Norden discussed dynamic split-screen with the gamer on the left automatically getting the left screen as opposed to it being allocated by default to player one, with the views shifting if players swapped sides. Similar to PlayStation Move, different players receive different lightbar colours: the first pad gets traditional PlayStation blue, the second gets a red light while the third and fourth controllers illuminate with green and pink respectively - Norden explaining that the colour choice correlates with the colours of the PlayStation symbols on the face buttons. Devs have control over the lightbar to a certain extent, so the LEDs could flash when a player takes damage during a game, for example. The lightbar also flashes while charging, with the pad able replenish its batteries even when the console is in standby.
Applications for the PlayStation 4 Eye camera were also discussed in depth. Firstly, a 1280x800 resolution per camera with 12-bit colour precision and a 60Hz refresh was confirmed, although it was also revealed that developers can trade pixels for frame-rate and that, at its fastest, PlayStation 4 Eye can update at 240Hz. We initially thought that the dual cam would be used for 3D applications and while the tech can triangulate depth in this way, Norden revealed a great many other uses too - the same shot can be acquired simultaneously at different levels of exposure, for example, giving a high-dynamic range effect and boosting low-light performance, while the frame-rate of the camera can be synchronised with the frame-rate of the game. Gesture-tracking and face-tracking libraries are also being provided.
Norden also hinted at Kinect-style gameplay, saying that the PS4 would support controller-free gameplay as well as custom props (reminding the audience of the old PS2 title that was bundled with pom-poms).
"You can get a really good lock on items in the room," he shared. "Cards, AR markers, wrist bands, clothing, LEDs, anything you can think of, you can track - LEDs work really well because it's a nice constant light source but you can do pretty much anything."
The enhanced precision of the PlayStation 4 Eye feeds back into an improved experience using the already superb Move controller:
"[PS4 Eye] actually provides much better tracking than the PS3 camera. Wider field of view, higher resolution," Norden confirmed. "It's just more robust in general because there's more power. Better AR, better head-tracking, better marker tracking, better everything."
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-inside-playstation-4
All of the hands-on impressions of Zoo Tycoon have been quite good so far. Makes you wonder why Microsoft hasn't marketed it at all. I know it's not a super 'splosion game, but it sounds like it could end up being one of the better titles of the launch from those that have played it. Maybe the combination of sim and mini-games leaves them unsure how to market it.
something fishy
Member
how can it without the IR functions? surely it can't see you in the dark or do any of the functions that track body heat can it?
Kinect Use Details:
Battlefield 4: Headtracking used for leaning and looking around inside vehicles. Voice commands.
Crimson Dragon: Controller used for movement, Kinect used for leaning and 'rolling'. Voice commands used for companion AI dragons. All done from couch.
D4: Voice commands for conversations with NPCs. Tracks posture and emotion. Can be done from sitting position.
Dead Rising 3: Voice commands attract or distract zombies.
Fantasia: Music Evolved: Kinect-driven rythm game.
Fighter Within: Kinect-driven fighting game (IMO, looks like shit)
Forza 5: Head tracking in cockpit.
Just Dance 2014: Kinect-driven dancing game. Same as previous iterations.
Kinect Sports Rivals: Kinect-driven action game. Wave racing free/available at launch.
Plants Vs Zombies: Unknown
Project Spark: This game is basically a game builder. Kinect can be used to record actions for NPCs somewhat like MoCap-light
Ryse: Voice commands to AI companions
Zoo Tycoon: Used to interact with animals physically and verbally
Zumba Fitness: Kinect-driven fitness game.
Xbox Fitness: Kinect-driven fitness application. Monitors progress through video workout programs like P90X and Insanity.
Also, every game has the ability to see who is holding the controller using Kinect. This can be used to auto load that persons gamertag and in-game presets/saves.
He means any game that REQUIRES the PS4 Eye Camera won't support remote play. Games that support the PS4 Eye Camera, but the features are optional will still work with remote play.
Alx
Member
Kinect doesn't really track body heat, it tracks near infrareds, which is not the same frequency.
Anyway it's all about depth measurement. Kinect does it by emitting IR light and measuring the time it takes to bounce back (more or less). The PSEye can do a similar measurement by comparing two images taken from slightly different positions, like we do with our eyes.
Once you have mapped the scene in 3D, whatever the method, you need to analyze that depth map to locate and track the user, but from that point it becomes independent on the sensor (although the depth map of the kinect would probably be more reliable and precise)
Shameless promotion of the thread I created for kinect and move :
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=513425
There are more details there. Maybe I shall update it with the new cameras, although I'm not sure many people care.
something fishy
Member
thanks for that, very interesting and I shall have a good read of it. yep stereoscopic (something mine don't do which is why the whole 3d fad rather passed me by).Kinect doesn't really track body heat, it tracks near infrareds, which is not the same frequency.
Anyway it's all about depth measurement. Kinect does it by emitting IR light and measuring the time it takes to bounce back (more or less). The PSEye can do a similar measurement by comparing two images taken from slightly different positions, like we do with our eyes.
Shameless promotion of the thread I created for kinect and move :
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=513425
There are more details there. Maybe I shall update it with the new cameras, although I'm not sure many people care.
but I was thinking the fact it emits ir would be why it can work in low light conditions and why it also can do those extra body functions? I didn't think a standard dual camera would be able to without some sort of light emission itself?
malingenie
Member
Last gen I bought my camera before Sports Champions. My camera was unused for a loong time.This year I will wait for this gen's Sports Champions and get a bundle.
Alx
Member
Indeed, the kinect can work in "pitch black" environments since it emits its own light, while the PS4 camera is passive and thus will be more dependent on lighting conditions. But the PS cameras usually were quite sensitive, so they should work even with low lights (I remember that for the PSEye they said the light from the TV screen was sufficient). It could affect the measurement quality, though.
This "Just Dance 2014" trailer shows the PS4 Eye Camera being used without any Move controls:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a--MUWoLhKM
Also in this IGN video the Just Dance dev mentions that the PS4 version uses the PS4 Eye Camera:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9I9uRYxKn2k
Project Spark won't be released for X1 before early 2014, they say.
Natureboy99
Banned
Has anyone mentioned the media molocule game? Full 3d character sculpting and user created content. That's the main reason I'm getting the camera. Someone should post a video. It was only shown at the unveiling event. It's been absent at all the other shows.
Edit:http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=TYY-J3ckeSI
Edit:http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=TYY-J3ckeSI
LukasTaves
Member
Cool list! I guess it's worth mentioning that on Just Dance you can play with up to 6 players on xbone.
StudioTan
Hold on, friend! I'd love to share with you some swell news about the Windows 8 Metro UI! Wait, where are you going?
Well in a recent DR3 interview he gave a few examples of the Kinect integration. If you get a zombie on you can just push your hands out as you would in real life to get the zombie off you. When you have a survivor you can tell them where to go by just pointing at where you want them to go and saying "go there" or something similar. You can enrage the psychos by insulting them. Not from the same interview but I remember reading a while ago that zombies will hear and react to you if you make too much noise in real life. All stuff that isn't essential but I feel it adds to the experience.
No, it can't.
We get Preseason (wave race portion) at launch now.
Fess
Member
I don't know, how many will have a PS4+Vita vs a PS4+PSEye? I think the latter will be a much bigger group, and in the end it's all about the money.
StudioTan
Hold on, friend! I'd love to share with you some swell news about the Windows 8 Metro UI! Wait, where are you going?
That's what he meant, there will be almost no support for PS Camera if this is the choice devs have to make since the easy decision will be to just not have PS Camera features.
Fess
Member
What I meant was the opposite though, I don't think Vita will sell as much as PSEye, so I'm guessing that the easy decision from a financial standpoint would be to choose camera features instead of Vita Remote Play if they're forced to choose. It might not be that way at first but as soon as PSEye starts selling and camera features turn out to be popular or requested because of Xbox One Kinect. I think Remote Play is mostly a feature put in place to make current Vita owners happy.
But anyway, personally I think not including PSEye is Sonys biggest mistake, this thread actually shows that quite well, I didn't know Kinect had nearly this much support from day 1. And since PSEye cost $60 at retail and probably make them a few bucks at that price they could have easily afford to include it in every box to get better support.
StudioTan
Hold on, friend! I'd love to share with you some swell news about the Windows 8 Metro UI! Wait, where are you going?
Oops, yeah, I misread your post. Sorry.
Keihart
Member
Can we stop this miss information please?
Games that REQUIRE the PScamera won't work with remoteplay, beacause....duh, how can they? Every game that makes it optional shouldn't have problems using remoteplay.
I'm buying the camera for Just Dance, i miss the good DDRs, the ones on PS3 are such bullshit.
ChosenPredator
Banned
I just got the ps4 camera for streaming on twitch and stuff but I don't suspect it will touch what kinect does or maybe it will who knows i guess i'll find out for myself in a few days
Doesn't matter if it uses the camera as long as its not the primary control method.
Edit : using remote play isn't a choice devs have to make either , it requires 0 work from them , it's an OS level feature. All devs are required to do is come up with a control scheme.
Games that have camera features will still do RP , only games like Just Dance where it's the primary input are exempt.
Driveclub had support if it is still there.
I think only games that *require* the camera cant be remote played. So eg driveclub which just uses it to capture your face, is optional so you could still use remote play
many games on xbox will probably just use kinext for voice and maybe controller/head tracking for leaning and looking around. I think those kinds of interactions could be supported with the PS4 camera
I think only games that *require* the camera cant be remote played. So eg driveclub which just uses it to capture your face, is optional so you could still use remote play
many games on xbox will probably just use kinext for voice and maybe controller/head tracking for leaning and looking around. I think those kinds of interactions could be supported with the PS4 camera
MS are barely demoing *anything*, never mind specific elements of games
RadarScope1
Member
The midnight event on GTTV next week would be a great time for Sony to announce or demo some camera games that are coming up.
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