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[P90]

I see the PSP as Sony's Gamecube. Not a worthy alternative to the dominating platform. Not without virtue, but not enough to generate interest.

 

[quetz67]

They didn't drop it officially, but inofficially they dropped it quite a few times (after all much more than Nintendo with the DS btw.). Core pack, Giga pack, bundles or a combination of both (Europe seems to get a Giga Pack + GTA for 249€ this christmas).

This christmas is in the future. And I dont see that pack as much of a price drop. It is a 199 Euro PSP with a 30 Euro memory stick and a game bundled in for 20 Euro.

You keep saying this. Can you justify this statement, though? Provide some independent evidence that the number you're citing is accurate?

The PSP is at 4 million in Japan and 5 in the US. That's 9 million. You're going to tell us it's sold 11 million elsewhere? More than what it's sold in the US and Japan combined? Because I am absolutely not seeing how that's a reasonable statement to make.

I keep saying it will be at about 20 million sold through by next march. Let it be at some 15 million right now. The only accurate numbers are shipped numbers, so I dont discuss sold through numbers.

 

[Jokeropia]

The iPod (which to a large amount it hype and iTunes) does not nearly sell as good as most people think. It took quite some time to sell even PSP quantities, let alone GBA/DS quantities.

iPod has an "active installed base" of over 40 million units and is selling better now than ever before. Clearly PSP failed in it's job as "iPod killer".

Not caring about the competition doesnt mean the competition wont sell better. Many small companies are happy with their own profits despite other companies maybe selling 1000x as much.

I'm sure that's what they meant. :lol

Suggesting that Sony felt that way is laughable on it's own, but to clear out any misconceptions they actually stated in a very blunt manner that DS had only the short-lived appeal of a gimmick and that comparisons between DS and PSP are unfair for Nintendo since they couldn't even hope to compete with the PSP. There is absolutely no question whatsoever that they expected to win the handheld war, and do it easily to boot.

As for the games, some companies might have had higher expectations, but when I see how more and more quality games come out and the 'PSP has no games' mantra turned into a joke recently I am positive many companies get some (good) profits out of the PSP.

Do you have any figures? Because when even EA, which along with Take Two has been the most successful publisher for PSP by far is disappointed, I wonder how the smaller developers feel. And again, software sales were good initially so any numbers you provide would have to be from the last months. That games you like is coming out is great for you, but it doesn't really help the system unless those games sell.

And even if PSP didnt manage to sell as many units as the DS it should be mentioned that Sony neither officially dropped the price yet nor offered a redesigned version.

That’s because they’re gonna eat some major losses on the PS3 and can’t afford to be too offensive with the PSP.

Anyway, you’re free to be optimistic if you like, just know that right now the trends are going in the opposite direction.

 

[ethelred]

This christmas is in the future. And I dont see that pack as much of a price drop. It is a 199 Euro PSP with a 30 Euro memory stick and a game bundled in for 20 Euro.


I keep saying it will be at about 20 million sold through by next march. Let it be at some 15 million right now. The only accurate numbers are shipped numbers, so I dont discuss sold through numbers.

When you claim it has a 20 million userbase, you're discussing sell-through numbers.

I'm still highly skeptical it'll sell 5 million more units in the next five months, but I suppose we shall see.

 

[DyTonic]

I still want a psp deep down in my heart, but there are no games I'm interested in playing on it. Most of my friends with psp hype games like LoCo RoCo, but when it comes to buying it they always pass. The good games always get over looked, but they go crazy for GTA and Socom. They need a lot more original games for it and stop it with these half-assed games. Tekken DR is awesome, but not enough for me to buy a psp. The psp do well when it comes to sports games.

 

[Frankfurter]

This christmas is in the future. And I dont see that pack as much of a price drop. It is a 199 Euro PSP with a 30 Euro memory stick and a game bundled in for 20 Euro.

You don't see a pack that includes GTA VCS for 50€ and a 1GB memory stick for 30€ on top of the PSP itself for 250€ as a big price drop? You get around 25% of what you are paying on top for free, how can that not be huge?

 

[Community Forum]

Release a Mizuguchi Pack (TM)

PSP System
Lumines
Lumines II
Every Extend Extra
Gunpey

 

[quetz67]

iPod has an "active installed base" of over 40 million units and is selling better now than ever before. Clearly PSP failed in it's job as "iPod killer".I'm sure that's what they meant. :lol

yeah, thats a laugh. 40 million? Thats not even close to one gameboy generation. And as I already said, most of that arent the expensive video models, 50% or more are cheap Shuffles and most of the rest are mini and nano. And iPod is longer availble than PSP.

Sony sure failed to compete with the hype, but the PSP isnt competing with naono/mini/shuffle, the walkmen competing with those are the Sony/Ericson phones.

But the iPods are a perfect analogy for the difference PSP / DS.

The Nano/Mini models are in the price range of the DS. They do one thing - playing music / DS playing games and are super convenient - small, robust with a great battery life.

The iPod Videos are more expensive, bulky with a worse battery life, but they can play videos (like the PSP).

Neither the PSP nor the iPod video sell as good as their smaller counterparts, does that make them failures? No, they just have a different target audience and 'unfortunately' a smaller one.

What the original post suggests is, Sony should have made a handheld at PS1 level instead of PS2 with cartridge format, as ultra-portable as the GBA/DS. I am glad they did not and I am quite sure competing with Nintendo at that level the PSP sure had been a failure.

 

[Ash Sparrow]

I like the design of the PSP, hate the cost and think they could use some more games. I think a choice is always good, i'm happy that someone tried to challenge Nintendos handheld dominance as i am that MS is challenging Sonys console domination. To say they shouldn't have even had a go at the market makes no sense to me. Don't you people like options?

 

[Xrenity]

PSP has some great games (GTA LCS, Loco Roco) but for me, they don't justify the price.

And DS is on a roll, and as both are handhelds, I think a lot of people are going with 'the Nintendo', cause, of course, the brand name is a very strong one.

My brother has a PSP though and I really like(d) LocoRoco. But I can't name you one game I want to play on it next to MGS Portable.

 

[quetz67]

You don't see a pack that includes GTA VCS for 50€ and a 1GB memory stick for 30€ on top of the PSP itself for 250€ as a big price drop? You get around 25% of what you are paying on top for free, how can that not be huge?

A bundle is not a price drop. It means a limited extra value for the customer, sure, but it just isnt the same. Its mostly cheating the retailers and other middlemen about some 30 Euros.

And the memory stick is not on top of 250 Euro. It is just a value pack with the 32MB replaced by the 1GB stick (which isnt much more for Sony than a the 32M 2 years ago).

 

[Raistlin]

I think the PSP may pick up steam as the PS3 goes mainstream.

It's the first major console peripheral I may end up buying



In all seriousness, I've wanted a PSP for a while ... but have been waiting for a price-drop before I'd consider it.

The new functionality with the PS3 only makes me want it more.


I travel a lot for my job ... those new features would come in REALLY handy.

 

[Frankfurter]

A bundle is not a price drop. It means a limited extra value for the customer, sure, but it just isnt the same. Its mostly cheating the retailers and other middlemen about some 30 Euros.

And the memory stick is not on top of 250 Euro. It is just a value pack with the 32MB replaced by the 1GB stick (which isnt much more for Sony than a the 32M 2 years ago).

A 1GB memory stick costs Sony money to make and obviously it means that less people will buy memory sticks because they already have them. That costs Sony money. Same goes for games. And I somehow doubt that the retailers over here are so dumb that they have been cheated for the last 12 months. I mean, you basically can't buy a PSP Value Pack for 250€, you'll always have games bundled (with no extra charge) or you have the Giga Pack etc.
After all these things cost Sony money, exactly the same effect as if Sony would just cut the price.

 

[quetz67]

A 1GB memory stick costs Sony money to make and obviously it means that less people will buy memory sticks because they already have them. That costs Sony money. Same goes for games. And I somehow doubt that the retailers over here are so dumb that they have been cheated for the last 12 months. I mean, you basically can't buy a PSP Value Pack for 250€, you'll always have games bundled (with no extra charge) or you have the Giga Pack etc.
After all these things cost Sony money, exactly the same effect as if Sony would just cut the price.

No, just no. The 1GB is a laugh for Sony, they dont get more than 15-20 Euros of that anyway. GTA LCS probably is another 10-15 Euros for Sony (Rockstar doesnt get more than 20 Euro for every copy, so I am sure they are happy to sell lots more at a little lower price).

So we have the bare PSP, which is 199,95 Euros and 50 Euros or less for all the stuff bundled in.

 

[Raistlin]

No, just no. The 1GB is a laugh for Sony, they dont get more than 15-20 Euros of that anyway. GTA LCS probably is another 10-15 Euros for Sony (Rockstar doesnt get more than 20 Euro for every copy, so I am sure they are happy to sell lots more at a little lower price).

So we have the bare PSP, which is 199,95 Euros and 50 Euros or less for all the stuff bundled in.

While the financials you describe may be true ... what does that matter to the end user?

If it is stuff they would buy themselves anyway, it's not like they can get it at the prices you mention. So it IS a big savings to the end-purchaser.




(Don't misunderstand me, I'd prefer a price drop BTW)

 

[Agent X]

I think Chittagong's first post brought up some good points, even if I don't necessarily agree with many of them myself. -jinx-'s response here is about the same as how I feel about those points.

They said a lot of interesting stuff, including that taking handheld gaming out of the ghetto thing :lol

Regarding the "handheld gaming ghetto": there seem to be multiple interpretations of this. For me, personally, the "handheld gaming ghetto" was represented by the stagnation of software quality and innovation seen in the later stages of the GBA market.

By 2004, the software on GBA wasn't getting any better; GBA game developers weren't trying to push the hardware to new levels with advanced graphical tricks, and weren't aiming for compelling and satisfying gameplay. They had no incentive to improve, either, because there wasn't any serious competition (N-Gage and Zodiac were both very low-key). The Take Out Bandit's comment about Nintendo taking nearly five years to offer a budget line for GBA also underscores just what happens when a company has a near monopoly on the market and doesn't have any incentive to improve the product for consumers.

So, GBA game makers were content to churn out a glut of low-quality software with high-profile licenses attached to them, riding the coattails of similarly-named games on consoles or movies/TV shows/cartoons/comic books. This junk was created solely to capitalize on impulsive, whiny little kids who desire the game based on the box art alone, and the parents who pay $30 figuring that if they get "something," it would at least pacify the spoiled brats in the back seat of the car for an hour or two. Discerning gamers, though, simply lamented the lack of compelling games being produced for this system. This is why the GBA market became the "handheld gaming ghetto."

The introduction of PSP was a breath of fresh air for many of us. It offered a significantly more powerful portable hardware platform, which in turn opened the door for more advanced software to be produced for gamers who were demanding it. It wasn't the first portable system to attempt this, but it was the first one in many years to have the winning combination of outstanding hardware, great software support from developers that knew how to make great software, and a financially strong company producing the hardware. The GBA was the "ghetto"; the PSP was the ticket out.

 

[elostyle]

The introduction of PSP was a breath of fresh air for many of us. It offered a significantly more powerful portable hardware platform, which in turn opened the door for more advanced software to be produced for gamers who were demanding it. It wasn't the first portable system to attempt this, but it was the first one in many years to have the winning combination of outstanding hardware, great software support from developers that knew how to make great software, and a financially strong company producing the hardware. The GBA was the "ghetto"; the PSP was the ticket out.

PSP is exactly like the GBA just 2 generations further. It's not the SNES' ghetto anymore but the PS2's ghetto big deal. Instead of low quality SNES ports you get low quality PS2 ports. Still pretty ghetto. Luckily the DS worked it's way out of the N64 ghetto and is doing its own thing.

 

[Agent X]

PSP is exactly like the GBA just 2 generations further.

:lol

It's not the SNES' ghetto anymore but the PS2's ghetto big deal. Instead of low quality SNES ports you get low quality PS2 ports.

Well, I (speaking for myself) got a small handful of really high-quality PS2 ports, some really high-quality arcade ports/emulations, and several high-quality original games not available on other systems. Perhaps your personal experience with the PSP is different--in which case you need to look at some of the other games on the shelves--but I'm pleased as punch with my PSP.

 

[Oblivion]

:lol

?

GBA = SNES
PSP = PS2

SNES > PS1/N64 > PS2

Two generations.


Also, even if you interpret the "handheld ghetto" thing, you still need to make note of the "walkman of the 21st century" bit.

 

[Dazzla]

It's a shame really, I picked up a PSP when it launched in JPN and was initially wowed like everyone else at the time but my DS (then DSL, black white and navy, what a whore!) took over because I simply wasn't playing any PSP games.

Anyway, I picked up another PSP a week or so ago and there's a pretty decent library. I mean some of the games I'm playing are EEE, LocoRoco, Field Commander, Powerstone, GitarooMan and Lumines. With Lumines II, Gunpey-R EEE (US) and Pro Evo 6 approaching imminently I think there's a pretty healthy mix of PS2 style games and handheld style games.

I also agree wholeheartedly with a Mizuguchi pack with custom PSP designed by Q? That'd kick ass!

 

[nincompoop]

PSP is exactly like the GBA just 2 generations further. It's not the SNES' ghetto anymore but the PS2's ghetto big deal. Instead of low quality SNES ports you get low quality PS2 ports. Still pretty ghetto. Luckily the DS worked it's way out of the N64 ghetto and is doing its own thing.

Your analogy doesn't really work since the GBA had tons of original games that were better than their SNES counterparts both graphically and from a gameplay perspective, whereas most of the original games in the PSP's library just feel like gimped PS2 games.

 

[plagiarize]

?

GBA = SNES
PSP = PS2

SNES > PS1/N64 > PS2

Two generations.


Also, even if you interpret the "handheld ghetto" thing, you still need to make note of the "walkman of the 21st century" bit.

i bolded the bit that was patently wrong.

 

[Oblivion]

i bolded the bit that was patently wrong.

Eh, you know I meant roughly in power.

 

[nincompoop]

Except the PSP isn't nearly as powerful as the PS2, while the GBA is quite a bit more powerfult than the SNES.

 

[Oblivion]

Except the PSP isn't nearly as powerful as the PS2, while the GBA is quite a bit more powerfult than the SNES.

Christ, I didn't mean it was the same right down to the ****ing last megahertz. Maybe almost. Whatever, I don't care.

 

[PantherLotus]

I can't say why the PSP isn't taking the world by storm like the DS has, but I can speak for myself.

For me, it's too expensive for what it does and does several things very well but is a master at none. If I wanted a portable media device I would have spent an extra 50 bucks and got an iPod or a portable DVD player.

The other thing for me is actual time spent gaming. The only time I would ever use my portable (in this case GBA) is on the toilet. And I'll be damned if I leave my $200 handheld sitting on the back of the ****in toilet.

What they should have done is make a portable that actually PLAYS dvds (and PS2 games), and leave the silly new formats out while expanding the library to thousands of games.

 

[gutter_trash]

I can't say why the PSP isn't taking the world by storm like the DS has, but I can speak for myself.

For me, it's too expensive for what it does and does several things very well but is a master at none. If I wanted a portable media device I would have spent an extra 50 bucks and got an iPod or a portable DVD player.

The other thing for me is actual time spent gaming. The only time I would ever use my portable (in this case GBA) is on the toilet. And I'll be damned if I leave my $200 handheld sitting on the back of the ****in toilet.

What they should have done is make a portable that actually PLAYS dvds (and PS2 games), and leave the silly new formats out while expanding the library to thousands of games.

Lumines + toilet gaming = numb legs
imossible to rise and whipe yourself after due to the circulation to the legs have been cut

 

[Chittagong]

Great post Jinx. I'll drill deeper into a couple of points.

Chittagong:

I agree with some of the things on your list:

The other positioning problem has to do with differentiation against other Sony products. As I mentioned in the "why isn't software selling?" thread, the PSP is competing with another Sony product (PS2) which offers similar games and costs less...not a good plan. If the PS2 was off the market, PSP would likely do a lot better.

This is actually getting even tougher with Mylo, which offers pretty much the same core use cases as PSP beyond gaming: Web, Music, Video, Photo - it also does Skype and GoogleTalk, and can save .txt documents (wow! killer selling point!). To add to the confusion, it's shaped like an ugly sibling.

Perceived fragility: With a screen protector (clear sticker), the PSP is quite durable. The clamshell form factor of the DS Lite (and the GBA SP) might very well have shaped consumer perception, though.

The perception is key here. I have very good experience of travelling with PSP around the globe for a hundred days, and it's durable. The pouch is good. But the device form factor suggests that it's not - the glossy surface + big screen + disc drive seem to equal fragile in the mind of Joe average. While DS is glossy too, the clamshell suggests that it's more durable.

I simply cannot understand why a five-second load time between levels or races or whatever is such a big deal for some people...unless they're exaggerating for fanboy effect. Are they trying to play in 30-second chunks? Do they have such a severe case of ADHD that they can't stand waiting for longer than milliseconds without freaking out? What do these people do when they're watching TV and a commercial comes on? Do they piss themselves if there's a line for the urinal? If there really is some microculture out there so reliant on instant gratification, I think we should stop discussing videogames, put a few of them under glass, and start the scientific studies.

Just like the "durability" perception, I don't think that the load times are as much of an actual issue than a perceived issue. Once you go through a couple of games with long splash screens and loading screens, you might start to think that "nah, it'd anyway take so long that half of this bus trip would be gone". With the DS, the physical motion of closing and opening the cover adds snappyness to the overall experience.

 

[gutter_trash]

load times are non-issue

play Tekken DR, Lumines, Street Fighter Alpha 3 and Liberty City Stories!! yes a GTA game with better load times then the PS2...... especially Tekken DR wich does an amazing job with loads, better the Tekken 5 on Ps2

true, that lazy ass games like WWE Smackdown vs Raw 2006 is a pieace of utter garbage and trash for the world's worst load times in 2005, but that is Yukes/THQ's fault entirely... not the PSP

 

[replicashooter]

The PSP is a flawed console due to its excessive choice of style over substance but the advantage of this is that when it excels it is uncomparable.

The original DS looked as nasty as the PSP didn't so I ignored it. Once the wow of the PSP wore off it sat there for occassion emulation until the DSL comes along.

PSP RIP...

...Until a few months ago when it pulled a Jesus thanks to 15 minutes of the game I initially detested - Wipeout Pure.

Now the PSP is in heavy rotation and contains a few titles that warrant the cost, fragility, implementation and design.

 

[DyTonic]

Wii:250
Psp:250

You choose....

 

[Joeholley]

EDIT: I should say that I was talking with a friend in Shanghai recently who is saving up for one, it's really a hot item in China. She knows about it's failings but it's a bit of a status symbol there. It trades on it's looks.

Very true. Somewhat bizzare in that it's not actually marketed here. 99% of the units sold here are smuggled Japanese units by way of HK. Crazy stuff.

But yeah, you can see how it would be a status symbol. It costs like three times the average Chinese person's monthly salary (no, that's not a joke).