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[Mustang]

what an awful piece of shit that is from IGN.......

Take a deep breath, then exhale.

You will feel better.

 

[jarrod]

Since DS is only their fourth truly different portable system (OK, I'm not counting Pokémon Mini) that's exaggerating. Pocket and SP are little different than the SNES Jr. or PSOne. And even for the time from GBC to GBA being short, I think more of the blame has to go to GBC being a bizarrely late and minor step. For them to have continued with it until 2003 would be more reason for complaint.

I'm just saying consumers don't seem to have any problem with frquently upgrading Nintendo handhelds. Backwards compatability and low costs have a lot to do with that too imo... what's worse, buying a new $99 GB every 2-3 years or a new $299 PS every 5 years? I just don't think comparably short handheld lifespans are anything to get concerned about, they're already accepted by the majority.

 

[Lord Error]

There were, but IIRC the Wavebird was the first to use RF technology, as well as the first to have a significant range and decent battery life.

First to use RF technology? I really, and I mean REALLY doubt it. What else could the others be using before Wavebird came along? IR? I don't think so.

To tell you the truth, it just seems weird to me that someone would even think of bringing Wavebird as some kind of innovation... I can't really fact-check it but I remember Logitech making wireless controlles since what seems like forever, basically since that technology was introduced with RF mice, and keyboards.

That, and the Game and Watch's ancient LCD was nothing like the NDS's touch screen in functionality.

I thought we were talking about the folding design, not about the screen functionality?

 

[Blinky]

Funny how they gave the PSP the edge in third party support, but DS the edge in announced library.

Not Funny....Nintendo 1st party > A lot of 3rd party.

 

[GDGF]

I thought we were talking about the functionality and not the folding design!

(mainly because the GBASP has a folding design too, so that kinda negates the argument, and really, who gives a damn that it folds up....the main thing is what the second screen brings)

 

[Drinky Crow]

Let's harp on the ugly-ass first-generation 3D graphics that are going to pollute 90% of the "standard" software released for the DS, instead!

 

[Lord Error]

I thought we were talking about the functionality and not the folding design!

I was just referring to KobunHat's comment about 'new Nintendo bringing innovation in the form of Wavebird and folding GBASP design'.

 

[Kobun Heat]

First to use RF technology? I really, and I mean REALLY doubt it. What else could the others be using before Wavebird came along? IR? I don't think so.

To tell you the truth, it just seems weird to me that someone would even think of bringing Wavebird as some kind of innovation...

Everything else on a console prior to that was infrared, and thus really annoying since you had to point it right at the TV, etc. Wireless controllers prior to the Wavebird... now THOSE were honest-to-God 'gimmicks'.

And if you're going to bring up the folding-screen Game and Watches as an example, great. That's illustrating again what Nintendo does - bringing up an idea that's lay dormant for a very long time and reworking it. It doesn't mean the SP's design wasn't a fantastic idea, didn't solve a very real problem, and wasn't innovative.

 

[jarrod]

Let's harp on the ugly-ass first-generation 3D graphics that are going to pollute 90% of the "standard" software released for the DS, instead!

I dunno... the games look quite a bit better than Doom, Starfox or Virtua Racing.

 

[GDGF]

And I think the main argument for the Wavebird is the fact that it's the first time that the technology actually really worked in a non shitty way.


For an example, we've had ion thrusters since the 40's but no one really gave a damn (or knew about them) until recently, because they actually work now.



(yeah, that was kinda arbitrary, but I've been watching the Science channel all morning...)

 

[GDGF]

I was just referring to KobunHat's comment about 'new Nintendo bringing innovation in the form of Wavebird and folding GBASP design'.

Oh! That's what I get for jumping in in the middle of a debate, I guess

 

[AniHawk]

You missed GTA 3/Vice City.

I believe DS is more than a "bit", but it´s up to the developers to profit it.

Tetris on Lynk or GG wouldn´t have been the same story. Specially for a game like Tetris you want your system work the maximum time possible, and you want your system is small enough to fit in your pocket (hardly in the case of a Game Boy, impossible for Game Gear and Lynk). You don´t need panoramic screens, analog sticks or incredible technology.

Tetris is exactly the reason I believe that in the handheld market, battery counts, a lot. Tetris or Pokemon are that type of games that you pass hours and hours without noticing it. Change 10 hours for 5 or less and you will have a lot of people pissed.

Other thing is that Sony is able to open a new market where the people don´t care about battery, but for the quality of its entertainment and the beauty of the tech. And I don´t deny Sony can do it, because I feel it that way too (I wouldn´t have a PSP preordered months ago if not). I will have DS and PSP and will enjoy them, but in different ways.

But actually, that market doesn´t exist in the videogame handheld industry. So claiming that battery has not been important in handheld looks completely wrong to me.

I didn't forget GTA. It doesn't fit the mold. The PS2 would have sold regardless whether or not GTA III or VC had been released.

Otherwise, looks like we have nothing to argue about.

 

[Lord Error]

Everything else on a console prior to that was infrared, and thus really annoying since you had to point it right at the TV, etc. Wireless controllers prior to the Wavebird... now THOSE were honest-to-God 'gimmicks'.

I think you'll be eating these words after I do some research. Either that, or my memory is terribly failing me. Unless the wavebird was made like five years ago, I very much doubt it was the first controller to use RF, or the first one to 'not be crappy'.

 

[Acosta]

I didn't forget GTA. It doesn't fit the mold. The PS2 would have sold regardless whether or not GTA III or VC had been released.

Sorry, I didn´t want to correct you, just adding my thought, that didn´t sound right.

I think that part of the massive success of PS2 comes from GTA, of curse the system would have sold, but maybe not at the same rate. And if Pokemon counts as "second life", and you name Final Fantasy VII, I believe is fair thinking that GTA 3 & Vice City fits into it. But that is just IMO.

 

[GDGF]

I think you'll be eating these words after I do some research. Either that, or my memory is terribly failing me. Unless the wavebird was made like five years ago, I very much doubt it was the first controller to use RF, or the first one to 'not be crappy'.

Feel free. It's been discussed before (like way back when the Wavebird was released)

 

[Acosta]

I think you'll be eating these words after I do some research. Either that, or my memory is terribly failing me. Unless the wavebird was made like five years ago, I very much doubt it was the first controller to use RF, or the first one to 'not be crappy'.

Why don´t you stick about is the first popular RF device and Nintendo the first party that launched it.

Maybe this type of things are invented in some MIT laboatory like 30 or 40 years ago, that doen´t make Nintendo lees innovative for launching something that was completely new on consoles.

Innovate doen´t mean "invent", you don´t need to create something new to apply it in innovative ways, just using it in a context where it was never used. Nintendo did it in the "console background".

 

[Deg]

Doesnt the Wavebrid use Motorla tech similar to Bluetooth?

 

[Shoryuken]

Doesnt the Wavebrid use Motorla tech similar to Bluetooth?

I think the wireless adapters that come with Pokemon Fire red and leaf green do, but I could be wrong.

 

[Lord Error]

OK, so when was Wavebird launched?

I found some reviews of some PS2 RF controller that date to early January 2001 (which means the holiday 2000 release most likely)

I can almost swear that PC had RF wireless pads long before that (Logitech and the crew)

 

[deadhorse32]

OK, so when was Wavebird launched?

I found some reviews of some PS2 RF controller that date to early January 2001 (which means the holiday 2000 release most likely)

I can almost swear that PC had RF wireless pads long before that (Logitech and the crew)

By being the first console manufacturer releasing a solid reliable wireless controller ( not using IR like most wireless controller before it ) Nintendo has innovated.

The wavebird was showed during spaceworld 2000 (at the same time than the gamecube unveilling)

 

[Lord Error]

OK, but when was it released? Showing something on the tradeshow is not really much of a step up from "30-40 years ago in the MIT labs"

I have no idea how reliable or quality that controller relased at the end of 2000 was (it was called AirPlay, btw) but both controllers clearly use the same RF technology (at 900Mhz) Mind you, that's something I found after one minute of searching. For all I know, there might be controllers of that kind released even earlier than that.

Also, why does it matter that Nintendo is 'first console manufacturer' that has released the controller of this kind? So if I change my name to "DFHERTYWEJKRHEJR REYUYWE" and 'invent' the wheel, should I be proud that I'm the first person named "DFHERTYWEJKRHEJR REYUYWE" who invented the wheel? )))

 

[Dragona Akehi]

I understand your sentiment, Marconelly. However, the Wavebird was the first non-shit wireless controller released. And a comparatively cheap price. I think that's more of the point.

 

[Kobun Heat]

From one review of the AirPlay:

It works much better if your PlayStation is not at ground level. Anywhere from a foot above the floor to the top of the entertainment system worked well, but when the PlayStation was on the ground the Airplay seemed to have a really tough time finding it, and would only work from a few unweildy positions. So if you get one, and you have a problem, do like the instruction manual says and get your PlayStation to a better location. The process of finding a good spot for transmission is made more difficult by the placement of the receiver’s connection light, which gets covered up by a memory card.

Sounds super.

 

[deadhorse32]

The AirPlay

Look ergonomic

Once again nobody has said Nintendo invented RF controller.

Wavebird is using RF technology at 2.4 Ghz

 

[Kobun Heat]

Well, actually I didn't know this existed. But in that it's a poorly designed controller from an obscure company that didn't exactly light up the marketplace and probably didn't actually work very well, I'm still holding to my original point that Nintendo did wireless right this gen, bringing it from the status of "gimmick" to "useful". That's the application of an innovative solution to a real problem.

 

[Acosta]

"DFHERTYWEJKRHEJR REYUYWE" and 'invent' the wheel, should I be proud that I'm the first person named "DFHERTYWEJKRHEJR REYUYWE" who invented the wheel? )))

You are forcing the argument. No matter what is your name, if you invent the wheel you are a fool because the wheel is already invented. But if you use the wheel and you put it on console with RF control so you can drive the system around the room, well, yes, you are being innovative, that is the core of the argument.

 

[GDGF]

Marconelly, like I said before, the Wavebird was the first RF wireless controller released that wasn't complete crap. And it wasn't just average either (not sure if you've played with a wavebird before or not) but you can literally play your system from another room in your house. It's that good. It's magic, I dunno, but it's that good

 

[drohne]

weren't there logitech rf pc pads that came out before the wavebird?

the neat thing about the wavebird is that it's identical to the stock controller, except wireless. er, and with no rumble. i wish that nintendo would release a wavebird sp, or that logitech would release a gc version of their wireless pad. granted, most games make no meaningful use of rumble at all, but every so often an mgs or rallisport 2 will buck the trend, and those instances are enough to give me pause. actually, a logitech gc pad with a reasonably sized and placed d-pad would be much better than the wavebird.

 

[DSN2K]

Take a deep breath, then exhale.

You will feel better.

im not a hater

infact I have an insiders account but the article stinks, some comments were frankly amusing to say the least.

 

[SantaC]

weren't there logitech rf pc pads that came out before the wavebird?

the neat thing about the wavebird is that it's identical to the stock controller, except wireless. er, and with no rumble. i wish that nintendo would release a wavebird sp, or that logitech would release a gc version of their wireless pad. granted, most games make no meaningful use of rumble at all, but every so often an mgs or rallisport 2 will buck the trend, and those instances are enough to give me pause. actually, a logitech gc pad with a reasonably sized and placed d-pad would be much better than the wavebird.

I have a logitech wireless PC gamepad and it starts sucking outside of 5 meters. Plus that you have to shell up 50-60 bucks for it. The wavebird is half the price and more durable.

 

[NLB2]

Because until it's been proven to work in this market, it is a gimmick. It hasn't been proven to work yet.

ANALOG STICK HASN'T BEEN PROVEN IN THIS MARKET!!!!!! PSP = GIMMICK!!!!!!!!!

(sorry if someone's already posted something like this. Its just that SolidSnakex's definition here is so fucking stupid I had to post this.)

 

[drohne]

hm, so maybe wavebird was the first wireless pad that didn't suck?

anyway, i really like the new model logitech wireless ps2 pad. can't say i've tried using it outside of 5 meters, but i prefer the actual physical design of the pad to any of the stock pads this generation. and the batteries last ~50 hrs. even with rumble. i think it only costs $40 as well.

 

[Tellaerin]

EDIT:



You're answered above as well. I appreciate your hardcore old-school flavor, but I'm sorry that you'll never play a videogame that's not exactly like those. You're going to be missing out.

Oh, I'm willing to try (and capable of appreciating) new things. I just don't want them to totally supplant what exists now. If the stylus and touchscreen were to eventually replace the conventional d-pad and buttons as you've suggested, I think you'd see a number of genres either vanish entirely or mutate into something so different as to be nearly unrecognizable. Some people (particularly the 'jaded malcontents' I mentioned) wouldn't be bothered by this prospect, and might even welcome it. Personally, I'd see it as a serious loss.

If the touchscreen grows into something that complements existing input methods, on the other hand, I'm all for it. I can see it eventually becoming the console equivalent of the mouse--invaluable for playing games in certain genres, but not positioned as a replacement for gamepads or joysticks. Only time will tell whether or not this will actually be the case.

 

[Kobun Heat]

Oh, I'm willing to try (and capable of appreciating) new things. I just don't want them to totally supplant what exists now... If the touchscreen grows into something that complements existing input methods, on the other hand, I'm all for it.

Ohhhh... I get you now.

No, I don't want the touchscreen/stylus to replace the D-pad and buttons. No way. Obviously there are plenty of games that work better with that setup. But giving the option of a touchscreen just creates all new kinds of games. And that's how the DS might very well end up satisfying both the hardcore and occasional gamers, because it can be both gamer's game system and businessman's little friend for those long plane trips. Or soccer mom's waiting-in-the-car diversion.

Again: not every DS game will use the touchscreen, and not every DS game will require the dual screens, and certainly only a handful will use the microphone to any consequence. But there's nothing wrong with that.

 

[Lord Error]

Once again nobody has said Nintendo invented RF controller.

Well actually yes, KobunHat did say just that. If he didn't, I honestly wouldn't even bother with this whole argument.

weren't there logitech rf pc pads that came out before the wavebird?

I'm positive there were, and quite a bit earlier than Wavebird came out. Mind you, I'm also positive there were other console controllers of that kind before the Wavebird - it's just that I found this one really quickly and didn't feel like searching any more.

 

[Dragona Akehi]

I think Kohler's point was that the Wavebird was the first wireless controller not to suck. All previous wireless (yes even ones that used RF like that Air one) sucked donkey dong with such a voracious appetite it would make the makers of Cho Aniki blush.

It's rather like the dreaded analogue stick: Nintendo didn't invent it, but they implemented it first in a mainstream, high quality product.

 

[Drinky Crow]

anyway, i really like the new model logitech wireless ps2 pad. can't say i've tried using it outside of 5 meters, but i prefer the actual physical design of the pad to any of the stock pads this generation. and the batteries last ~50 hrs. even with rumble. i think it only costs $40 as well.

Vocal agreement here. While the first Logitech PS2 wireless controller was heapin' plate of ass, the latest one seriously rocks. It has a much better D-pad than the Dual Shock, plus it has rumble unlike the Wavebird despite a similar battery life on 2 AAs. It's officially my favorite controller this gen.

 

[Kobun Heat]

Vocal agreement here. While the first Logitech PS2 wireless controller was heapin' plate of ass, the latest one seriously rocks. It has a much better D-pad than the Dual Shock, plus it has rumble unlike the Wavebird despite a similar battery life on 2 AAs. It's officially my favorite controller this gen.

But didn't it launch at like... fifty bucks?

I don't think I'd pay that. $35 for a Wavebird was pushing it.

 

[TheGreenGiant]

i feel like the WB is a HUGE business oppourtunity that Nintendo missed out on. If they'd done what they did in Japan and had gamers play their games on huge city walls as part of their marketing for the wavebird, that would have sold gamers onto how awesome the whole thing was. And made Nintendo seem bigger than life. As it is... I have a wavebird that I've NEVER used. NEVER except maybe to test that it works.

 

[Tellaerin]

i feel like the WB is a HUGE business oppourtunity that Nintendo missed out on. If they'd done what they did in Japan and had gamers play their games on huge city walls as part of their marketing for the wavebird, that would have sold gamers onto how awesome the whole thing was. And made Nintendo seem bigger than life. As it is... I have a wavebird that I've NEVER used. NEVER except maybe to test that it works.

So playing Gamecube games on the side of a building at some Nintendo event would've inspired you to take that Wavebird out of the box and use it?

 

[TheGreenGiant]

yes. it would

 

[norinrad21]

i feel like the WB is a HUGE business oppourtunity that Nintendo missed out on. If they'd done what they did in Japan and had gamers play their games on huge city walls as part of their marketing for the wavebird, that would have sold gamers onto how awesome the whole thing was. And made Nintendo seem bigger than life. As it is... I have a wavebird that I've NEVER used. NEVER except maybe to test that it works.

LOL

 

[Brofist]

i feel like the WB is a HUGE business oppourtunity that Nintendo missed out on. If they'd done what they did in Japan and had gamers play their games on huge city walls as part of their marketing for the wavebird, that would have sold gamers onto how awesome the whole thing was. And made Nintendo seem bigger than life. As it is... I have a wavebird that I've NEVER used. NEVER except maybe to test that it works.

why don't you use it?

I live in Japan, sorry to ruin you image, but it's not very often people are playing GC on the side of a building.