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[Philippo]

We had everyone copying cibematic linear experiences, open worlds and hero shooters, now it's battle royale games turn.

It's just how the industry works, everyone running after the latest trend.

 

[Death Penalty]

The title change is also extremely disingenuous when PU developed the DayZ mod and was literally brought on to advize production of H1Z1. If you're going to try to discredit the complaints, this was a really shallow way to do it, though of course few will care.

 

[Alienous]

That's the joke.

He's being sarcastic.

Really? How subtle.

 

[Yearsoflurking]

The title change is also extremely disingenuous when PU developed the DayZ mod and was literally brought on to advize production of H1Z1. If you're going to try to discredit the complaints, this was a really shallow way to do it, though of course few will care.

Title change is really disappointing tbh

 

[SkateorDi3]

Fortnite will be a good distraction from pubg, but I feel like pubg will still have the bigger attraction because it is more competitive. Fortnite, as I see it is still just an arcade game. It's third person ffs.

 

[Saucycarpdog]

Such as?

Rainbow Six Siege, Insurgency, Squad, etc. You could say other shooters overall such as Battlefield or Arma or Overwatch also factor into it even though they aren't the same.

 

[Bookoo]

How is pubg different from day z

Genuinely asking because i dont understand its success if theyre all the same concept

Id really like to see Last of Us do it as the mechanics are all there

DayZ was an survival game where you were really just trying to see stay alive as long as you could and there was no end to it except death. This was exciting at first, but with no real goal so it got old pretty quickly.

PUBG and other BR games are much more streamlined and have the simple goal of trying to be the last alive in a match.

 

[Glitchesarecool]

Do you have any actual criticisms of people's reactions, or just this broad nothingness?

A lot of posters seem to be assuming they're making this statement because there's competition in the market. It's not that long of an article, their concern is over being directly copied rather than have much transformative work done. That's whatever, I suppose, because it's the gaming industry and that just happens.

More of an actual concern though, PUBG is being used in marketing for another game, but Bluehole didn't authorize that.

"We have also noticed that Epic Games references PUBG in the promotion of Fortnite to their community and in communications with the press. This was never discussed with us and we don't feel that it's right."

 

[PeskyToaster]

I mean, it's clear a lot of people needed to read this part of the article

I don't think it really matters what Brendan Greene said. We are talking about the comments of Bluehole VP and executive producer Chang Han Kim who's comments are more important than Brendan Greene's in this context.

 

[Bits N Pieces]

The title change is also extremely disingenuous when PU developed the DayZ mod and was literally brought on to advize production of H1Z1. If you're going to try to discredit the complaints, this was a really shallow way to do it, though of course few will care.

You expected any better?

 

[LordCiego]

Deal with it Bluehole.

Yours sincerely a Pubg owner and player.

 

[Nirolak]

The title change is also extremely disingenuous when PU developed the DayZ mod and was literally brought on to advize production of H1Z1. If you're going to try to discredit the complaints, this was a really shallow way to do it, though of course few will care.

SOE paid for contracting services from Brendan Greene and then he left and built the same game with one of their competitors, yet they're complaining about another company making yet another similar game.

Bluehole is also founded by people who literally stole art assets, technology, and design documents from NCSoft to make their first game, and lost a Korean Supreme Court battle doing so.

They also made a Diablo clone without hiring anyone from the Diablo series to advise them, doing the same thing as Epic is here.

I think there's an argument to be made about clone games, but this is the company living in a glass house using a tennis ball launcher to throw rocks.

 

[Boke1879]

A lot of posters seem to be assuming they're making this statement because there's competition in the market. It's not that long of an article, their concern is over being directly copied rather than have much transformative work done. That's whatever, I suppose, because it's the gaming industry and that just happens.

More of an actual concern though, PUBG is being used in marketing for another game, but Bluehole didn't authorize that.

Is there a law stating you can't mention another game in a press release? That to me comes off as very petty and to threaten legal action over it? Come on now.

 

[GodofWine]

How fast do you think a AAA developer could push out a BR game, with 1 map?

I'm saying 6 months - existing engine, existing assets, guns balanced from existing games. Battlefield BR could probably be a $20 digital download by Christmas. Its gonna get worse for Bluehole if they don't 'finish' their game soon.

(PUBG player here - love it too, will be playing it for years on PC)

 

[Glass Shark]

.

 

[NintendosBooger]

The first thing Bluehole needs to accept is that all knowledge is accumulative and that nothing in this industry is built from absolute scratch -- not software ideas, not hardware ideas, not any idea. They borrowed someone else's shit and refined it.

The second thing Bluehole needs to accept is that they're rich and no one gives a fuck about their trivial issues. Take the money, make something even better. If you sit on it, then that's on you and you can condemn yourself to oblivion for all I care while everyone else enjoys the PUBG-inspired games built on your smoldering ashes.

The final thing Bluehole needs to accept is that with increased DEV cost publishers are more risk-averse than ever, and they should have known this. This isn't the 70s or 80s where publishers can turn a blind eye to big hits and continue on in pursuit of their original vision. You work in a copycat industry. Hell, you're a product of it.

Live with it...and stop bitching.

 

[JABEE]

The similarities between PUBG and Fortnite BR are more than just mechanics. In fact the mechanics are probably the one thing that are the most different between the two. It's the presentation that is a complete and blatant (and Epic seems to acknowledge this in a tongue in cheek way) rip off. Is this something Bluehole should be able to successfully sue over? I don't think so. It's very "Street Fighter/Fighter's History" to me. But I can see why they are concerned. And from a huge company like Epic, it's a little tacky tbh.

It's like "we've been working to completely copy your idea for 6 months so we can beat you to consoles! "

 

[Felix Lighter]

I understand some annoyance considering the relationship between Bluehole and Epic but the threat of legal action is just pointless and a bad look. I assume the suits at Bluehole have no idea how to handle the success and are terrified of losing it.

 

[PackAPunchedMick]

"We have also noticed that Epic Games references PUBG in the promotion of Fortnite to their community and in communications with the press. This was never discussed with us and we don't feel that it's right."

How many devs have used the "the dark souls of ...... to describe their games?

Lawyers are gonna be mad busy /s

 

[Hari Seldon]

DayZ was an survival game where you were really just trying to see stay alive as long as you could and there was no end to it except death. This was exciting at first, but with no real goal so it got old pretty quickly.

PUBG and other BR games are much more streamlined and have the simple goal of trying to be the last alive in a match.

DayZ died because the developer went skiing and never returned.

 

[Linkstrikesback]

How fast do you think a AAA developer could push out a BR game, with 1 map?

I'm saying 6 months - existing engine, existing assets. Battlefield BR could probably be a $20 digital download by Christmas. Its gonna get worse for Bluehole if they don't 'finish' their game soon.

If they could base it on existing assets and engine, I reckon they could have it out for one map in way less than 6 months. Maybe 3-4?

 

[autoduelist]

To be fair, Bluehole are geniuses, I can understand their upset.

The name Battle Royale is so distinct and fits so well. The whole concept of having a group of people on an island whittle each other down until one remains with a variety of weapons is honestly something I'm surprised hadn't been thought of earlier. It's such an interesting concept. To then add 'danger zones' into the mix where every so often portions of the map are unsafe only serves to heighten the experience, something unique that I'm glad was thought of.

Items like the yellow and black tracksuit help provide style to the game as well. Though it's unclear where the inspiration came from, probably Kill Bill, it just seems to work.

Epic need to back off, it isn't right that Bluehole can create something so profoundly unique only to have others shamelessly copy it (even the name!).

Bluehole clearly ripped off Hunger Games. And for the colors, they ripped off bumblebees, I think.

 

[Lifeline]

"We have also noticed that Epic Games references PUBG in the promotion of Fortnite to their community and in communications with the press. This was never discussed with us and we don't feel that it's right."

How many devs have used the "the dark souls of ...... to describe their games?

Lawyers are gonna be mad busy /s

Like Skyrim with guns

 

[Boke1879]

"We have also noticed that Epic Games references PUBG in the promotion of Fortnite to their community and in communications with the press. This was never discussed with us and we don't feel that it's right."

How many devs have used the "the dark souls of ...... to describe their games?

Lawyers are gonna be mad busy /s

My point earlier.

 

[MisterShine]

The title change is also extremely disingenuous when PU developed the DayZ mod and was literally brought on to advize production of H1Z1. If you're going to try to discredit the complaints, this was a really shallow way to do it, though of course few will care.

Sure, but the battle royale format has quite a few differences from DayZ, and if he helped on H1Z1 he could've gotten his ideas from them, not necessarily the other way around as you're implying. And of course ideas he has while working for H1Z1 are now their property anyway, not his own.

 

[Archpath1]

Sorry you built a game based on a single mode.

Hopefully others can atleast change it up too

 

[Listonosh]

I have two thoughts on this, sorry if this was already mentioned.

Bluehole is probably concerned because Fortnite stated that Battle Royale access would be free, meaning there is now 0 barrier of entry to play a "PUBG" style game, whereas PUBG still costs $30, and will be even more expensive upon release.

But secondly, and more importantly, I feel like Bluehole took the wrong approach to this. By showing concern about Battle Royale, they're admitting that they fear other players will be swayed by it, or even their existing fanbase would be swayed by it. Had Bluehole just acknowledged "Oh hey, we see what Fortnite's doing, and that's cute, but if you want the real and proven PUBG experience, you come to us" it would show more strength and belief in their own game.

 

[noomi]

Fortnite is on steam now?

Nah, I was just tryin'a be funny

 

[Mass_Pincup]

"We have also noticed that Epic Games references PUBG in the promotion of Fortnite to their community and in communications with the press. This was never discussed with us and we don't feel that it's right."

How many devs have used the "the dark souls of ...... to describe their games?

Lawyers are gonna be mad busy /s

Those games were not straight up Dark Souls clones though. Stuff like Lord of the Fallen didn't referenced Dark Souls from what I remember.

 

[Faithless Mr.]

They actually will when it releases free to everyone soon and they update it with more content. This is just the beginning.

Just because something is free doesn't mean it'll be such a success to the extent that it'll threaten PUBG.

PUBG is a phenomenon and THE game of 2017. Being a free alternative won't stop it. The only people that'll jump into fortnite are those who weren't likely to buy PUBG in the first place.

 

[PackAPunchedMick]

Just because something is free doesn't mean it'll be such a success to the extent that it'll threaten PUBG.

PUBG is a phenomenon and THE game of 2017. Being a free alternative won't stop it. The only people that'll jump into fortnite are those who weren't likely to buy PUBG in the first place.

Or 60+ million PS4 owners?

 

[Wereroku]

A lot of posters seem to be assuming they're making this statement because there's competition in the market. It's not that long of an article, their concern is over being directly copied rather than have much transformative work done. That's whatever, I suppose, because it's the gaming industry and that just happens.

More of an actual concern though, PUBG is being used in marketing for another game, but Bluehole didn't authorize that.

They don't have to get permission to talk about a product that is on the market. They can't call their game PUBG but they can legally say our game is like PUBG.

 

[TimeEffect]

DayZ was an survival game where you were really just trying to see stay alive as long as you could and there was no end to it except death. This was exciting at first, but with no real goal so it got old pretty quickly.

PUBG and other BR games are much more streamlined and have the simple goal of trying to be the last alive in a match.

What other games are last man standing?

I cant believe it took so long to do and now everyone is doing it

I like PUBG but the game would be something else with a full release... lots more maps and gameplay variance would be quite exciting

I wonder if any of the bigger studios can successfully ape it before pubg does.

Being on pc seems to be the ticket. Cant imagine console sales like that

 

[VariantX]

Just because something is free doesn't mean it'll be such a success to the extent that it'll threaten PUBG.

PUBG is a phenomenon and THE game of 2017. Being a free alternative won't stop it. The only people that'll jump into fortnite are those who weren't likely to buy PUBG in the first place.

I'm sure that literally means every PS4 owner that doesn't own a PC that can run the game and doesnt own an xbox.

 

[Death Penalty]

SOE paid for contracting services from Brendan Greene and then he left and built the same game with one of their competitors, yet they're complaining about another company making yet another similar game.

Bluehole is also founded by people who literally stole art assets, technology, and design documents from NCSoft to make their first game, and lost a Korean Supreme Court battle doing so.

They also made a Diablo clone without hiring anyone from the Diablo series to advise them, doing the same thing as Epic is here.

I think there's an argument to be made about clone games, but this is the company living in a glass house using a tennis ball launcher to throw rocks.

So the argument here is basically two wrongs make a right? Like because the company made some prior games and that's scummy, it's not scummy to do that to them?

It also doesn't change that the H1Z1-alike comment doesn't hold much water when PU consulted on it because it was meant to emulate and refine a mod he had already made.

Sure, but the battle royale format has quite a few differences from DayZ, and if he helped on H1Z1 he could've gotten his ideas from them, not necessarily the other way around as you're implying. And of course ideas he has while working for H1Z1 are now their property anyway, not his own.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm under the impression PU was brought on to consult specifically because he had an already successful mod they wished to emulate. H1Z1 isn't where PU started.

 

[SkateorDi3]

Thus continues the trend of Brendan and Bluehole having literally no idea how to properly manage the phenomenon this game has become. You’ve sold 10 million copies, there is no need to be salty. Sit down, shut up, and let your game speak for itself.

Exactly. Just make a better game than epic, simple.

 

[Venfayth]

I don't think it really matters what Brendan Greene said. We are talking about the comments of Bluehole VP and executive producer Chang Han Kim who's comments are more important than Brendan Greene's in this context.

Two people now have failed to actually comprehend the quote.

Bluehole highlighted Brendan Greene's comment. That means they're saying: "hey, take a look at what our creative director has to say about this"

I think it's bizarre for Bluehole to call out other devs for copying their game (as evidenced by my first post in this thread) but it's clear a lot of peoples concerns and gut reactions are clearly known and acknowledged in the article. I am sick and tired of playing devil's advocate in order to help people actually the understand the nuance of a situation. I'm out.

 

[Cleve]

Ehh, as others said, PUBG refined it, but it leaned on ideas in other successful games already on the market.

I'd be a bit more sympathetic if bluehole's first reaction to a massive infusion of cash wasn't figuring out how to shoehorn micro-transactions in to their game, but this was inevitable. We'll see who offers the best product to the most people. Competition is a good thing.

Maybe I missed it, but does anyone have a screenshot of the fortnite marketing using the PUBG name/branding? That's scummy for sure.

 

[The ๖ۜBronx]

It's like "we've been working to completely copy your idea for 6 months so we can beat you to consoles! "

As a PS4 owner, good? They've shown no interest in informing me when I'll be able to play PUBG despite my enthusiasm to play it. If Fortnite are willing to provide a similar mode for free and available now then I'm happy to play it. The same for that and anything else that appears between now and PUBG releasing, and if any of them are amazing then – well – guess PUBG loses out.

 

[dave is ok]

.

 

[BigDug13]

This sounds a bit like the Apple Google thing. Apple asks Google to come in and help make some apps for their new smartphone they're designing that uses finger touch. Suddenly when iphone launches, Google is right on their heels with their own smartphone OS.

 

[Niceguydan8]

Exactly. Just make a better game than epic, simple.

The crazy thing is that they have. It takes one game of BR in Fortnite and one game in PUBG to realize that PUBG is a hell of a lot better for the BR gametype.

 

[Hari Seldon]

How fast do you think a AAA developer could push out a BR game, with 1 map?

I'm saying 6 months - existing engine, existing assets, guns balanced from existing games. Battlefield BR could probably be a $20 digital download by Christmas. Its gonna get worse for Bluehole if they don't 'finish' their game soon.

(PUBG player here - love it too, will be playing it for years on PC)

Well 100 player netcode on a console isn't exactly trivial lol. But even so, just a mode for an existing game isn't going to replicate the PC-ass PC hardcore military sim combat of PUBG which is what makes it so satisfying. Battlefield style combat where you can trivially snipe someone from far away would make for a frustrating and, in my opinion, unsuccessful take on the genre.

 

[Felix Lighter]

Sure, but the battle royale format has quite a few differences from DayZ, and if he helped on H1Z1 he could've gotten his ideas from them, not necessarily the other way around as you're implying. And of course ideas he has while working for H1Z1 are now their property anyway, not his own.

He created the Battle Royale mod for Arma, he didn't develop DayZ. He did invent this genre of games. He definitely did not steal the idea when working on H1Z1. That is the reason he was hired.

 

[Nirolak]

So the argument here is basically two wrongs make a right? Like because the company made some prior games and that's scummy, it's not scummy to do that to them?

It also doesn't change that the H1Z1-alike comment doesn't hold much water when PU consulted on it because it was meant to emulate and refine a mod he had already made.

I think complaining that other people are following the exact same business practices you repeatedly argued were correct and legal would be wrong, yes, since you would be undermining your own products.

I also think hiring off staff from another company to make a similar game for you doesn't excuse the fact that you're making a similar product if we want to view that as wrong. If Epic goes and hires one of the lead designers from PUBG, does that completely change the scenario?

 

[PackAPunchedMick]

The crazy thing is that they have. It takes one game of BR in Fortnite and one game in PUBG to realize that PUBG is a hell of a lot better for the BR gametype.

LOL.

Fortnite has been available for less than a week.

PUBG?

That and Fortnite performs a hell of a lot better than pubg in its current state.

 

[SolidSnakex]

Those games were not straight up Dark Souls clones though. Stuff like Lord of the Fallen didn't referenced Dark Souls from what I remember.

What other games do you think Lords Of The Fall is similar to?

That’s easy: It’s Dark Souls meets Borderlands meets Tekken-slash-Street Fighter. And here’s why. When you play the game, you’ll immediately think of Dark Souls because it’s a third-person melee combat game, so it looks and feels like Dark Souls. But there are elements that we wanted to take from other games, which is why there’s a skill tree that you unlock and upgrade. This is where Borderlands steps in. And it also has an arcade-ish approach to some elements. It has a lot of perfect-clicking-combo kind of stuff, advanced tactics, which is where the fighting games come in.

http://paulsemel.com/exclusive-interview-lords-of-the-fallen-executive-producer-tomasz-gop/

Nioh

Eurogamer: Was Dark Souls what changed the game's direction? It doesn't look like a typical Team Ninja game. Or a Musou (Warriors) game for that matter either.

Yasuda: Yes, it did have a big impact on the direction this project eventually took. We have very, very high opinions of the Souls series and it's captivated a very wide audience, even here in Japan. Also, fundamentally that the game is very difficult, very challenging, yet very well-done and refined as a great action game. That part is in common with the past Team Ninja titles. So we did take some inspirations from Dark Souls.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2...difficulty-player-feedback-and-whats-changing

 

[Blam]

Well 100 player netcode on a console isn't exactly trivial lol. But even so, just a mode for an existing game isn't going to replicate the PC-ass PC hardcore military sim combat of PUBG which is what makes it so satisfying. Battlefield style combat where you can trivially snipe someone from far away would make for a frustrating and, in my opinion, unsuccessful take on the genre.

Well apparently Microsoft has someone doing a 400 player game.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1434816

 

[TurtleSnatcher]

When I see clips from Fortnite like this, I immediately think it looks more innovative and fun than PUBG.

https://clips.twitch.tv/EnergeticMushyCheddarPRChase

 

[SkateorDi3]

The crazy thing is that they have. It takes one game of BR in Fortnite and one game in PUBG to realize that PUBG is a hell of a lot better for the BR gametype.

Well that remains to be proven for me. I'll definitely check out fortnite when it goes free, but I was a TPP hater in pubg and I will probably find a reason to hate it in fortnite. Like I said in another post, fortnite will just be a good casual wind down game.