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Putting little girls in danger is emotionally manipulative.
- Thread starter WhiskeyKnight
- Start date
Tears will be shed by all dude bros when cod doggy dies.
Give her a year, and she will make a video about it.
Give her a year, and she will make a video about it.
Red Blaster
Member
god mass effect 3 really is the worst game ever
AndrewDean84xX
Banned
I would't necessarily call it manipulative, but rather, as you said, simply an easy narrative gimmick. Developers can use the little girls as the embodiment of helplessness. It's just a stereotypical character, like the damsel in distress. I wouldn't get mad at developers for using a certain stereotypical character too often, but being confronted with the same situation with same kind of character over and over again could reduce the connection between the player and characters. Every storytelling mechanic has the danger of becoming less effective if the viewer is too often exposed to it. It's a bit of a double-edged sword.
Not sure where this would get us in the end. Turns out we can't save the world or put it in helpless, urgent danger because half of it is full of women/children/pets that should never be used to manipulate emotion.
I'm fine with sticking to ridiculous stories about being a bad enough dude to save presidents, but I'm pretty glad game writers haven't stopped there.
I'm fine with sticking to ridiculous stories about being a bad enough dude to save presidents, but I'm pretty glad game writers haven't stopped there.
Dictator93
Member
I agree with OP.
It is cheap.. making us care for a character that is less prototypically innocent would be more interesting.
It is cheap.. making us care for a character that is less prototypically innocent would be more interesting.
GrimDarkDarrel
Member
Noooo, *that* little fella got blown up. You don't get nearly enough of that, even if it was offscreen.
Breaking news:
Majority of videogame writing uses easy ways to grab your attention, and characters that are vulnerable and close to the character you control are an excellent means. Not a privilege reserved for kids, girls or even humans.
A few do a decent job, but you will usually not give a fuck cause you realize how badly forced it was(JASOOOOOOOON etc)
Majority of videogame writing uses easy ways to grab your attention, and characters that are vulnerable and close to the character you control are an excellent means. Not a privilege reserved for kids, girls or even humans.
A few do a decent job, but you will usually not give a fuck cause you realize how badly forced it was(JASOOOOOOOON etc)
This. That is what all fictional drama is about. It's how an audience is moved. The times where it actually comes off as negatively emotionally manipulative to me, is when these things happen in the story cheaply and lazily. When skillfully done, it can be brilliant.
High and low drama can't be sincerely separated by 'uses a little girl' and 'doesn't use...' but the OP's nearing a point that deserves to be addressed.
Gaming desperately needs to diversify its style of narrative delivery/devices.
taking a little girl and sticking her in a position of danger; I think that's cheap and lazy.
Jake Tower
Banned
The use of little girls in video games is *cheap* emotional manipulation. It is a cheap shortcut to 'being sufficiently engaging,' taking no skill at all.
Hayama Akito
Member
Japan knows this since 1868.
Elwood Blues
Member
The variety of girls used could be better too. The Last of Us and Beyond both use Juno.
Pixiv, as usual, delivers.
Bonus points for having the same haircut as half of the OP!
Double bonus points for having scantily proportioned armor ...with wheels.
Baby steps.
Disagree. All that matters is how well it's done, how well the character/relationship is written. There are plenty of kids in games you don't care about, and then ones you do. Clementine wasn't cheap or lazy.
Also, this has been mentioned, but 2 of the games in the OP aren't out, in one of them (as far as I know) you play AS the girl, and one is an adult (not a little girl, and you rarely have to protect her). Not great examples.
It's kinda funny, but little girls in danger does nothing for me. In The Walking Dead, Clementine is supposed to be the focus of who you want to protect, but why? I wanted to protect everyone in my group. The writing didn't motivate me to want to protect Clementine more than the others. It's like they pulled the little girl in danger card and left it at that. Maybe I'm half Vulcan combined with a bag of bricks, but I was unmoved in the last scene of season 1. I actually felt worse for Duck.
Agreed.
Little Girl in Trouble is a trope that spans way beyond video games. Is it lazy? IMO, no. Its a story element, not the story (well in most cases). Any (good) story is about the journey, not its plot points.
Emotional manipulation is our lives. We grave, need, thrive, lust, demand, require some sort of E.M.. Pinpointing it because you or someone has a problem with it doesn't make it bad.
Black Republican
Member
Clear
CliffyB's Cock Holster
Jake Tower said:
But they aren't "little girls" are they, they are animated, AI-driven, entities. They are polygons and pixels!
Videogames are closer to puppet-theatre than movies, they are overtly artificial creations. Given the context and medium, using broad strokes to make the drama impactful seems eminently reasonable.
I have to say I'm actually offended by your "taking no skill at all" comment. It shows utter contempt for the audience, who presumably in your mind react like pavlov's dogs to a prescribed stimulus...
You think you can sustain empathy by just invoking a convenient "icon"?
Jake Tower
Banned
While not a little girl per se, there is a reason it was thought "you'll want to protect her" would be an expected response.
Because the concept of a girl/woman doing a thing scares them.
Dunno For me at least I do not see any reason not treat either situation differently.
Clear
CliffyB's Cock Holster
Jake Tower said:
If their function in both story and gameplay terms is to be protected, it wouldn't make sense for them to be an unappealing, unlikeable, douche would it? What would be the appeal of that once the novelty of such an ironic choice has worn off? Especially over many hours of gameplay.
Can't you see that its about more than just the setup? Its how you develop the character (or not) over the course of the story that matters. That's the hallmark of quality.
I'm not defending the way harvesting/saving the little sisters worked in Bioshock - that was cheap because it essentially using them as interchangeable props to get a reaction from the player.
That said, there's nothing inherently cheap or tokenistic with using a little girl as a figure in need of your protection, it simply makes sense to have a character and scenario that is quickly and easily relatable.
Gaming stories are so embarrassing in general, exceptions are rare and so precious, because this whole thing is really preposterous, and its always the AAA popular games that everyone fawns over, can't be said enough, it's embarrassing.
This is correct and I can't recommend this game enough.
This is correct and I can't recommend this game enough.
Senor Kami
Banned
Do you see an emotional scene in a film and think that's just how things happened to play out and not that it was specifically designed to elicit that emotion? When any other medium designs something to elicit a reaction from the reader/viewer, we're fine. When games do it, they're the anti-christ.
semiconscious
Gold Member
but enough!...
now - when's breakfast?...
now - when's breakfast?...
Stumpokapow
listen to the mad man
Doing things that elicit emotions doesn't make them emotionally manipulative. It's emotional to see a mother lose her son, but that doesn't mean every fictional work that features that is emotionally manipulative. It's emotional to see someone work so hard only to be undone by a tragic character flaw, but all tragedies work that way--they're not all emotionally manipulative.
It's manipulative when it is unearned, artificial, inconsistent, or out of left field--when it ramps the tension from 0 to 100 with no warning or buildup, when it's overscored, etc.
It's manipulative when it is unearned, artificial, inconsistent, or out of left field--when it ramps the tension from 0 to 100 with no warning or buildup, when it's overscored, etc.
Chinpoko_Master
Member
This is actually the ending of The Last Guardian.
wat
if the games mentioned in the OP were movies they would be trashed and laughed at by every movie reviewer in existence.
Spring-Loaded
Member
It's definitely manipulative, though it isn't inherently unearned. Since every emotional moment of a story/game/film/Etc. is manufactured, the creators are persuading, or manipulating, the audience to feel a certain way.
That's the difference; Kami thinks the problem comes solely from the use of this trope when people usually just have a problem with how artificial it usually feels.
also horses
Are there multiple endings? I felt like shit for weeks and never went back to the game when it happened.
Then I finished the final boss and I was actually happy. Such relief...
And I hated myself for waiting weeks on the actual ending.
Chinpoko_Master
Member
why is this supposed to be sad againalso horses
Jake Tower
Banned
That would actually be much more interesting as a dramatic element than the typical doe eyed little girl. "Will the player do the right thing and protect this unlikeable douche, or let personal dislike govern his actions?" Of course, any kind of 'escort mission' mechanic has its own problems, regardless of who the character being escorted is; I don't know of anyone who would think Escort Mission: The Game would be a fun idea based on the current state of the art.
Then perhaps you misinterpreted what I said as a universal blanket statement. Emotional investment can of course be earned in a video game, including with a 'little girl.' The issue is that most games don't earn it at all. The 'little girl' is a cheap drop in en lieu of taking the effort to create an actual character dynamic.
Edit: another element that can be cheap are 'appeals to patriotism' to create unearned emotional response, like flag waving to invoke an "America! Fuck Yeah!" reaction in the player. That is not to say an appeal to patriotism cannot be earned, but that it is something that can be used for a cheap response in the player based on human nature. To stretch the concept to film, there's a reason Roland Emmerich isn't considered a deep dramatic film maker.