AlphaTwo00
Member
If it is, it won't be the NA version, and would require resubmitting it through ESRB, etc.Valtor said:
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Quebec French language laws now in effect
- Thread starter DogWelder
- Start date
Being a belgian that immigrated to quebec what does that make of me?Fularu said:
The purest of alll loollllll Belgian is no more closer to being the purest form of french than everyone else, each kind of french has its perks and I can assure you that I think that some regional part of belgium sound very much more like joual than french. Anyway This debate seems so pointless except I find it quite normal to protect the language. For the one suggesting 1 universal langage, I say that we should choose chinese...... Oh no wait there are like 500 different kind of chinese, so why not english .....mmmm okay from the us or england , maybe australia....
Well Let's invent a new universal language ...... oh wait it has already been tried with the esperanto....
I don't want to conform into the mass, i use english because my interests are more minded toward the english culture but there are so many language that I would like to learn , that is what makes us individuals with interesting different cultures.
One thing is If I emmigrated to japan I would find it normal for the governement to ask me to learn the official langage. In quebec this is french, the law has been voted like that and all the naysayers, deal with it. Only bilingual province in canada is New-Brunswick.
Immigrants should be aware of that before applying to immigrate to quebec, that's it.
It requires them to translate more than just box art; they need to also translate game manuals, and if they have a French language game elsewhere in the world, then they need to produce that as well. It isn't free, it costs them money, and for most businesses in Quebec is an additional cost that wouldn't exist elsewhere in the country...even in North America.NeoZylom said:
Valtor said:
There's no french version. The problem isn't the game anyway, just the box ...
expy said:
You sure of translating the game is required? Kingdom Hearts 355/2 Days is all in english but has french manuals -> It's available in Quebec, released in France in French. Same with Mario and Luigi RPG, Scribblenauts, ... I can name you a few that got out recently and are only in english in Quebec but they are available still available in Quebec. I'm sure some misunderstand this law.
So yeah, I think you get it wrong
nolookjones
Member
LCfiner said:
exactly...we still use canadian money in quebec so we still have basic canadian rights...
I don't know about France, but in Belgium loads of people play games in the original English versions. I never came across a game that did not have an English version included on the disk (granted, I do live in the Dutch-speaking part of Belgium and barely any games have a Dutch translation).
NeoZylom said:
Gamebuzz is 100% legit. They can sell games that don't have a french on the box because the box cannot be consulted by the consumer. If your product cannot be consulted, the laws for display cannot apply.
Also, while there are Gamebuzz only in Montreal, EB and Gamestop is everywhere...
Anyhow, as soon as it's available it's therefore not true that it isn't. Also, people shouldn't shop at Wallmart and other big chains. They profit from "special deals" from distributors and this is deloyal competition imo.
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NeoZylom said:I've been to Gamestop/EB Games, they don't have Demon's Soul either
You missed the keyword in my previous posts -- you need to order them. In short, you have to tell the guy at the counter that you want to buy this game. The games ARE available at their warehouse because they are at other non-Quebec but Canadian stores. All the Atlus games and whatnot that I ever bought I did at Ebgames. I also worked for them during 2 years. They will sell it to you if you ask them. They aren't displaying the games but can sell them.
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johnFkennedy
Member
I'm not outraged at how this might negatively affect gamers. I, am outraged however over how such a ridiculous law ever became a law in the first place.
I see. To be clear, for the federal government, French and English are official languages.Fularu said:
Provincially, only New Brunswick has both English and French as an official language (though all have previsions for both). I`d thought that Quebec`s language laws were related to having only one official language, and I was mistaken. The official languages part of the charter is not possible to opt-out of, either.
That said, the law is a pretty atrocious trampling of minority rights. The fact that they had to opt out of Freedom of Expression to pass it is evidence enough of that.
johnFkennedy
Member
Ranger X said:
It is ridiculous. If you want French versions of games then appeal to the publishers. Prohibition on all other language games isn't the answer. That just leaves stores sitting on top of product that they can't sell, and what about those that don't speak French in the area? They won't be allowed to buy the non-French version without some loop hole, or the internet.
Gamer @ Heart
Member
REVOLUTION. BRING THEM UNDER CONTROL CANADIANS.
Rocket Punch
Member
Quebec can seriously go to hell. Everyone that speaks true French from France tells me how broken Quebec French is, I don't know what they wanna protect it from.
Rocket Punch said:
Let's say the same thing about US English. Everyone that speaks true English form England tells me how broken US English is.
Seriously, I should stop coming into this thread. Too much "racist?" haha.
/me thinks the mods should close this thread, since it fails to his purpose and it's turning into a Canada vs Quebec war.
Also about the Law, I found that on Kotaku :
Kotaku said:
So if Demon's Soul isn't out in Quebec, it's not coz of this law, but coz of the Law 101.
Rocket Punch said:
"True" french.. ha. Give me a break. French is french, whether it's from France, Africa, Quebec, Belgium, etc. They got different expressions, different accents, but it's still the same fucking language.
Just like there is no "true" english, whether it's from the US, England, Australia, Canada, etc.
Like NeoZylom said, i don't know why i still come here or why this thread is still open. There's too many stupid haters... You can't troll consoles on GAF, but eh...troll Quebec all you want!
I think it is all because the Canadiens have not been and will not be Stanley Cup contenders for many years. Pent up frustration. They don't riot. They pass and enforce silly laws.
I have no problem with that. To be honest, you don't need a law, the pressure of socialization in the country/state/province will force you to learn the language. You move somewhere, better expect to speak the language. But all videogames? What about the internet? Does it/will it need to be Quebec-ized?
I have no problem with that. To be honest, you don't need a law, the pressure of socialization in the country/state/province will force you to learn the language. You move somewhere, better expect to speak the language. But all videogames? What about the internet? Does it/will it need to be Quebec-ized?
I'm not getting it wrong. Either there is a planned release of the French version in Quebec, or those retailers are breaking the law.NeoZylom said:
Either way, there are ways around it. Immigrants have successfully defeated Bill 104 (preventing them from attending English schools) by going through the justice system and ultimately the Supreme Court ruled against Quebec's
stupid
P90 said:
But what does this comment means? Nothing is Quebec-ized" ... or maybe everything is?
There's 2 laws they are super simple. One ask for everything considered "displayed" to be billingual. This is nice, everybody can read. So why not videogames? EVERYTHING ELSE complies. What's draconian about asking videogames to join the norm? They don't ask yourself to make a french version or traduce it just for us. It's only the displayed box.
Second law is about making french versions available here when they exist. Ain't that natural to ask? Why publishers would be making a french version for Europe and not release it here? Because we aren't important enough amongst french people? Yet again, making your french version available here (90%+ french audience) is not a stretch or draconian to ask. Also, the law is pretty loose. If you don't have a french version you can sell whatever version you have anyways.
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AlphaTwo00
Member
A few things:Ranger X said:
a) For smaller companies, French versions may exists, MONTHS after the original exists. Right now, it's somewhat fuzzy on whether if that happens, do they have to re-release a French version here.
b) If the answer is yes, there will be additional work. EU versions of games are typically a different build than the NA versions. In order to facilitate a French version for North America, either 1)They have to submit a second version to the console manufactures/ESRB to be retested (and have a seperate SKU, licensing and cost associated with it) or 2)Push the NA version to have French built in to begin with.
The problem here is that both cases will have their drawbacks.: 1) requires additional cost, and depending on the title, and the market it's for, may not be worth it for some companies (whereas it is still viable in EU regions, when multiple languages are on the same cart/disk). 2) Incurs an extra delay across the board for all of North America, and can potentially run into storage limitation (most noticable in DS games, where typical EU region games have to include multiple language images for textures, etc).
You're right, for the most part, this should not be a problem, for most games, but it doesn't mean it's not a problem ever for everyone.
P90 said:
I don't understand where you are going again. The province of Quebec is having its own law for many things. Isn't it the same with other provinces. Laws are laws and the more they are appropriate for the region they are effective in, the more it's good law imo. I don't see a Canadian law more respectable or important than a province's law. Law is law.
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jaundicejuice
Member
AlphaTwo00 said:
I think you're grasping at straws with some of this stuff, particularly the bolded. "That's it, Call of Duty 8: Revenge of the Modern Warfarening Part 3 is getting delayed 2 extra months, you North Americas can all thank those silly Quebecois!" Like that is going to happen.
Do you think there will be stringent enforcement of this law? How seriously do you think all involved will take this law? Do you think someone will get hired to watch for the EU/French language release of various games. "Oh, Mana Khemia 3: Pretty Princess Robots is out in France, PULL THE ENGLISH COPIES!" Or that there will be some task forces roaming the brick and mortars ensuring the removal of the English version once the known French version is available somewhere in the wild, blue yonder? You think Publishers will, of their own accord, accrue the extra costs and re-submit to the ESRB as well as print off French-only versions months possibly a year after the fact? Do you think brick n' mortar retailers will just eat the cost for unsold shipments of the English versions of games? OR do you think it's more likely that publishers and retailers will just sell whatever version they initially get to brick n' mortars because the above is a giant financial hassle for all parties involved.
AlphaTwo00 said:
I agree with you but I want to bring in something else. It's more a matter of adaptation more than anything else. Each time a complication occurs in the honestly horrible EU market, publishers can adapt and then over the years they develloped ways of releasing their products without much assle. It's not hard to submit different SKUs and it's less and less costly. Microsoft is having worldwide approval already as an example.
Bigger publisher already all make french tracks or subtitles and this is made before any skus comes out. Just a matter of organisation really. They will simply include their EU stuff into the NTSC version, this won't even influence their number of submissions.
The thing that inevitably cost more is the special billingual packaging but then again, it's not that much to comply imo. They can organise their packaging in the same way as their versions meaning they could use Europe stuff too.
Another thing, if this is too costly for you, you simply don't make the localisation of the product. I mean, your english game CAN be sold everywhere, I don't see a problem. And if ever France is having a similar law that I am not aware of then I reverse to my previous argument, drop the french track in more versions.
So what happens in fact is that some small publisher will whine before this adaption they'd have to make. But then again, I would ask them why they bother localising if it's not worth it to them?
If this law here was having some real effects I would be the first to whine. I love whining after all and my standards towards gaming a fairly higher than most. I really am of the "customer is king" mentality and that business needs to comply to us and not the other way around. Right now, this particular law we are discussing here did not prevent games from being sold here. We, so far, whine for nothing.
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AlphaTwo00
Member
No. I'm not, because I've worked on a game that has gone through that process already. I'm not sure how often it happens, but it has. Games like CoD, of course, won't run in to such situations, but it's not hard to see that it can happen to mid to smaller titles.jaundicejuice said:
You're right, and you've come to the conclusion I mentioned at page 3jaundicejuice said:
It's possible that they'll sell whatever they have left, and call it a day, just like you said. But that means that this will also artificially drive up the price of the game, at least from a regional standpoint.
I know Atlus isn't part of the ESAC, but what if they were to follow the same rules? Persona 3/4 would run into the exact situation (game was released in EU over a year later). Do they reprint with a new SKU? Or do they sit and do nothing and watch prices inflate? How would you feel if the only way you can get that game once they stop printing it is through high prices?
expy said:
At least not the ones we are treating here. Also, there's alot of laws one will not like, regardless where you are. Laws are never perfect. I don't see how Quebec's one are more problematic. Speaking of languages law, they accomodate english more here than french in other provinces. This is NEVER considered. We also don't whine much about it, at least french people from Quebec don't.
Also, there's often a catch with laws that medias aren't making transparent and then people build up problems in their head that already don't exist. You know that new law that is hot right now at le Parlement? The one where you would have to put your kids in french high school? Medias are making this sounds like you can't go to english schools anymore -- wich is false. And that is also for ALL degrees while it's only for high school.
So basically, after high school you can go to any english college no problems. I think you can still go into private high schools. Basically the law asks for Montrealers (because really, this doesn't affect much people outside Montreal's region) to have a base of the french language. This is something I see as acceptable being in a french province.
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Recap:
- If the English and French games are sold separately, that game can contain packaging and documentation in the language of the game. (Does not need to be bi-lingual)
- English version may ONLY be sold if no French version exists in the world, otherwise, the French version will need to be sold as well.
- Only applies to current-generation and next-generation consoles.
- If the English and French games are sold separately, that game can contain packaging and documentation in the language of the game. (Does not need to be bi-lingual)
- English version may ONLY be sold if no French version exists in the world, otherwise, the French version will need to be sold as well.
AlphaTwo00
Member
I pretty much agree with most of it. I don't have any direct numbers for me to pull, but you also have to consider that the cost of localizing for just France might be justifiable given the population and projected sales, whereas the same cost may not be worth it for Quebec.Ranger X said:
I hope it really is not going to affect anything, but I won't be so certain that it can't happen.
Buggy Loop
Gold Member
Rocket Punch said:
Actually, if we go back to 16 & 17th century literature in france, you would find that its very very close to quebec's french. France's french has changed drastically over time and nowadays, they even have more english terms mixed into their talk than i've seen anywhere else. There's no "true" french.
AlphaTwo00
Member
Yikes. They aren't doing a French only release like their Personal Cooking game?Kifimbo said:
Rocket Punch said:
Forget the brutally racist statement for a sec (wtf is "true french"?)
You are also making it based on a third party opinion "everyone" you know in France?
Lastly Quebecers should all go to hell based off of the policy that was created that probably 99% of the population doesn't know about?
Buggy Loop
Gold Member
Dunlop said:
I dont even know why he's not banned yet.
Dunlop said:
The French in Québec is bad, not atrocious, but bad. I'm talking about the spoken and written french here. This isn't a problem with the quebecers themselves, it's a problem linked to how french is taught in schools. Young students just don't know how to talk or write.
I would like to mention that french in France is severely lacking too, but definitely not on the same level (and not for the same reasons, immigration and subburbs slang is a huge part of it).
Also last, but not least, I know it makes people in Quebec feel better about themselves by deluding themselves that french people speak a worse (or more anglicised) version of the language, but that's just not true at all. I spend 10 months a year in Québec and 2 months a year in Paris, and the difference is prety staggering.
On the previous post I have to agree that the french taught in school and specially the writing skills of youger people is pretty dysmal compared to what I was used to in belgium. I also think that the situation is probably similar in europe nowadays, kind of a problem with all the teaching reforms.