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["D"]

I have a friend that is from Pakistan that owns his own cart in a mall that I tend to frequent. He is trying to find a nice girl to talk to and eventually date, but he's having a hard time due to his desire to want a woman that isn't so much like his own race/culture.

He says that dealing with women from his race/culture are difficult because they "play mind games and are gold diggers." He says that lots of them come here with a Student Visa to try to find a guy that is established so that they can help them get their green card and get established....but they don't want to work and want to be taken cared of while they shop and things like that. He also says the "getting to know you" phase in a friendship that could lead to dating is a pain because they send all these weird mixed signals or generally act too shy to speak up on anything that will advance the relationship. Because of that he likes dealing with American women more cause they are more "upfront" and easier to read.

The thing is, he's not the only guy of Middle Eastern descent I've heard this from. I've heard it from other associates and co-workers as well. He as well as others I've talked to have told me they have abandoned trying with their own women and have ventured into interracial friendship/relationships.

My question is, is this generally regarded as being true?

 

[Coffee Dog]

Do you often regard stereotypes about people's personalities based on geographical location as true?

 

[Yeoman]

Since when is Pakistan in the Middle East?

 

[ItIsOkBro]

Gee I wonder why he's having such a hard time getting a date!

He's got some terrible misconceptions.

 

[Lightning Count]

Since when is Pakistan in the Middle East?

Check the maps man, it's right next Afghanistan.

 

["D"]

Do you often regard stereotypes about people's personalities based on geographical location as true?

I didn't wanna offend anyone by lumping a group of people to a particular country erroneously so I just used Middle East as a general term since that's the geographic area for some of those countries.

But to answer your question, that''s the reason why I made this thread cause I'm not sure...so I'm asking other folks on GAF who may fit into what I'm talking about to shed some insight

 

[Mii]

No. This is a man full of excuses for his failures.

He is hand-picking stories he's heard of (immigrant) women and applying it specifically to explain his failure. Men do this frequently.

The same sort of garbage story is peddled for immigrant women from all over. It is generally bullshit.

 

[Mr. Giggles]

Gee I wonder why he's having such a hard time getting a date!

This, your friend will have trouble with women regardless of their ethnicity if his outlook is as you describe OP

 

[Rubenov]

Check the maps man, it's right next Afghanistan.

That's South Asia or Southwest Asia, IIRC

 

[univariate]

You're off to a great start.

 

["D"]

This, your friend will have trouble with women regardless of their ethnicity if his outlook is as you describe OP

I've tried to give him advice quite a few times...I'm not there to hold his hand but each time he just tells me "ehh I stopped talking to her, it wasn't worth it"...so I really don't know what he is doing or saying to these women that is fucking things up.

And its not like I'm telling him some off the wall shit...I just tell him to make small talk like he would with his friends...ask her how her day was, stuff like that. Basically be yourself and flow with the style of the conversation. Nothing risky or anything just treat her like you would a normal friend or at least how you want to be treated in a conversation

 

[Arkos]

Seems legit

 

[Yeoman]

Check the maps man, it's right next Afghanistan.

You're right, I totally forgot man!
[QUOTE="D";191240087]I didn't wanna offend anyone by lumping a group of people to a particular country erroneously so I just used Middle East as a general term since that's the geographic area for some of those countries[/QUOTE]
I know you don't want to offend anyone but you literally just lumped almost 200 million people with another 300 million people that have next to nothing in common aside from most of them being Muslim. They are completely different ethnically, not only do they speak totally different languages - they come from totally different linguistic families!
They have totally different cultures (obviously Pakistan has much more in common with Western India than anywhere else) and most countries in the Middle East vary quite a bit from each other culturally anyway. Although they can be grouped into their own blocks to some degree (Iran, Levant, Arabian Peninsula e.t.c).
The only reason I ever see Pakistan, Afghanistan, and the "Middle East" grouped together are for more malicious us vs. them geopolitics than harken back to the Bush administration.

 

[Byakuya769]

If you have to ask....


Then you're being kind of dumb. Your buddy is probably punching above his weight class in desirability and is thus chasing after vain women.

 

[Jackpot]

[QUOTE="D";191239589]The thing is, he's not the only guy of Middle Eastern descent I've heard this from. I've heard it from other associates and co-workers as well. He as well as others I've talked to have told me they have abandoned trying with their own women and have ventured into interracial friendship/relationships.

My question is, is this generally regarded as being true?[/QUOTE]

Anecdotal evidence is meaningless when judging an entire population.

Did you really expect Gaffers to be like "oh yeah, all Pakistani women are there just to get visas and then become a housewife. Common knowledge, dude."

 

[Chariot]

[QUOTE="D";191240087]I didn't wanna offend anyone by lumping a group of people to a particular country erroneously so I just used Middle East as a general term since that's the geographic area for some of those countries.[/QUOTE]Can't stop laughing, this is great!

 

[Mr. Giggles]

[QUOTE="D";191240585]I've tried to give him advice quite a few times...I'm not there to hold his hand but each time he just tells me "ehh I stopped talking to her, it wasn't worth it"...so I really don't know what he is doing or saying to these women that is fucking things up.

And its not like I'm telling him some off the wall shit...I just tell him to make small talk like he would with his friends...ask her how her day was, stuff like that. Basically be yourself and flow with the style of the conversation. Nothing risky or anything just treat her like you would a normal friend or at least how you want to be treated in a conversation[/QUOTE]

I see, in this case he will learn the hard way.

Mama always said "what you don't learn from friends and family, the world will teach you"

Allow him to make mistakes, if he has any sense he will self adjust

 

["D"]

If you have to ask....


Then you're being kind of dumb. Your buddy is probably punching above his weight class in desirability and is thus chasing after vain women.

How so? I will admit I'm ignorant about how his culture does things when it comes to courtship, conversation and friendship but how does me asking something make me dumb?

 

[Heavy's Sandvich]

When was Pakistan in the Middle East?

 

[Kinitari]

The immigrant woman who just wants a greencard and a rich husband is a stereotype. I'm sure, like a lot of stereotypes, you can find people who fulfill it, but there are soooooooo many who don't. And like most stereotypes, they apply to the excluded group (white women) probably just as often.

 

[Gentleman Jack]

When was Pakistan in the Middle East?

Blame Dubya and his 'Greater Middle East' bullshit.

 

["D"]

Anecdotal evidence is meaningless when judging an entire population.

Did you really expect Gaffers to be like "oh yeah, all Pakistani women are there just to get visas and then become a housewife. Common knowledge, dude."

Nah, I just wanted to see if other people had mostly similar experiences or the opposite

 

[Silent Chief]

Since when is Pakistan in the Middle East?

The Near East is also called the Middle East and the area between the Middle East and the Extreme East is usually called South Asia, even though it's not really south.

It was done to artificially increase the difficulty of geography classes.

 

[gutter_trash]

Check the maps man, it's right next Afghanistan.

Afghanistan isn't in the Middle-East;

Afghanistan gets shoved into it because it makes it easier for the media to include it in that troubled party of the world that is the M-E since Afghanistan is troubled as well

 

[Syriel]

The immigrant woman who just wants a greencard and a rich husband is a stereotype. I'm sure, like a lot of stereotypes, you can find people who fulfill it, but there are soooooooo many who don't. And like most stereotypes, they apply to the excluded group (white women) probably just as often.

That's a stereotype that started with white women. Not sure why you'd think they would be excluded.

 

[yanipheonu]

People are largely more complicated than the categories we place on them. I get it, humans just are designed to follow patterns, no matter how incorrect.

Just treat them like another human being?

 

[Byakuya769]

[QUOTE="D";191241062]How so? I will admit I'm ignorant about how his culture does things when it comes to courtship, conversation and friendship but how does me asking something make me dumb?[/QUOTE]

"Hey, my friend has a misogynisitc and racist view on all women from this particular group. Is it true?"

 

[Yeoman]

Blame Dubya and his 'Greater Middle East' bullshit.

^^ This right here
Even the term "Middle East" is a little sketchy at best. There is a huge amount of variance between the different countries and regions in there. A Lebanese man from Beirut has very little in common with a Yemeni living in the Sarawat Mountains who has very little in common with a Turkish man living in Istanbul.

It's better to regard it as more of a geographic term - the term Near East is more appropriate.

 

[Pasta_Soup]

[QUOTE="D";191239589]...He also says the "getting to know you" phase in a friendship that could lead to dating is a pain because they send all these weird mixed signals or generally act too shy to speak up on anything that will advance the relationship. Because of that he likes dealing with American women more cause they are more "upfront" and easier to read.[/QUOTE]

What is this "getting to know you" phase? It sounds like he's not making his intentions clear, and then hoping the girl makes a move. You shouldn't aim to befriend a woman you're romantically interested in, hoping it will lead to a date. If it's a brand new meeting, sure, small talk a bit, use some humor, be charming, but then ask them on a date - or make date plans very shortly after exchanging numbers.

Like other posters have said, seems like your friend just doesn't know what he's doing, and he's blaming his failure on false stereotypes.

 

[Umibozu]

Check the maps man, it's right next Afghanistan.

Pakistan is south Asia, and Afghanistan is central Asia. Neither are middle eastern countries

 

[Kinitari]

That's a stereotype that started with white women. Not sure why you'd think they would be excluded.

Fair enough, I guess that's a more succinct way of saying it - OP, this shit is said about every woman, and is true infrequently enough that you/your friend shouldn't be giving it a second thought.

 

["D"]

What is this "getting to know you" phase? It sounds like he's not making his intentions clear, and then hoping the girl makes a move. You shouldn't aim to befriend a woman you're romantically interested in, hoping it will lead to a date. If it's a brand new meeting, sure, small talk a bit, use some humor, be charming, but then ask them on a date - or make date plans very shortly after exchanging numbers.

Like other posters have said, seems like your friend just doesn't know what he's doing, and he's blaming his failure on false stereotypes.

This could be true, but everything you said that I bolded I literally coached him to do. The follow through is where it gets fucked cause I don't know exactly how the exchanges go, and after a few days and I ask him how did things go, its the same ol "its not worth it" shit

 

[Deleted member 17706]

[QUOTE="D";191241353]Nah, I just wanted to see if other people had mostly similar experiences or the opposite[/QUOTE]

The problem is that you're taking individual experiences and applying them to tens or even hundreds of millions of people as if those examples represent an objective trend.

 

[Kozak]

He's wrong and bitter but consider that Middle Eastern girls come from a completely different culture. There would be some differences.

 

[Silent Chief]

[QUOTE="D";191241062]How so? I will admit I'm ignorant about how his culture does things when it comes to courtship, conversation and friendship but how does me asking something make me dumb?[/QUOTE]

Pakistan has a culture of arranged marriages.

 

[Silent Chief]

^^ This right here
Even the term "Middle East" is a little sketchy at best. There is a huge amount of variance between the different countries and regions in there. A Lebanese man from Beirut has very little in common with a Yemeni living in the Sarawat Mountains who has very little in common with a Turkish man living in Istanbul.

It's better to regard it as more of a geographic term - the term Near East is more appropriate.

It's not more diverse than Europe.

 

[PBY]

Person who has shitty sexist and racist opinions about women has a hard time finding women who want to date him.

Okay.

 

[Pasta_Soup]

[QUOTE="D";191242253]This could be true, but everything you said that I bolded I literally coached him to do. The follow through is where it gets fucked cause I don't know exactly how the exchanges go, and after a few days and I ask him how did things go, its the same ol "its not worth it" shit[/QUOTE]

Seems weird he won't give you details on the conversations. Time to swipe his phone and check out these exchanges firsthand! Share them on Gaf for bonus points.

 

["D"]

Seems weird he won't give you details on the conversations. Time to swipe his phone and check out these exchanges firsthand! Share them on Gaf for bonus points.

I wish lol...I dunno what the problem could be but from a pragmatic standpoint, I see that HE is the common denominator in these failed attempts...so it may very well be something he's saying or doing.

 

[Jenenser]

[QUOTE="D";191240585]
And its not like I'm telling him some off the wall shit...I just tell him to make small talk like he would with his friends...ask her how her day was, stuff like that. Basically be yourself and flow with the style of the conversation. Nothing risky or anything just treat her like you would a normal friend or at least how you want to be treated in a conversation[/QUOTE]

sooo, you basically teach your buddy in how to get friendzoned?

 

[Miles Quaritch]

No problems for me. I'm dating a girl of Pakistani descent and she's amazing.

Your friend has either had some bad luck or he's using code - upfront = more "loose" and willing to bang.

 

[Yeoman]

It's not more diverse than Europe.

I think at the extremes it probably is. You won't find the same sort of variance crossing from France to Germany as you would from Egypt to Israel. There's also plenty of sizeable minorities that are quite distinct from their host populations (Bedouins, Kurds, Circassians). In Europe most of those minorities have been largely integrated into the population with only the Saami and Roma really left. The EU also brings an added level of cohesion too.
Even then though I tend to avoid using European as descriptor for people too, I use it more as a geographical label. Scandinavia, the British Isles, the Iberian Peninsula are more meaningful divisors (similar to the Levant, Arabian Peninsula situation).

 

[P44]

Since when is Pakistan in the Middle East?

Oh man thank you for posting this.

 

["D"]

sooo, you basically teach your buddy in how to get friendzoned?

To start off, yeah. Nothing wrong with getting to know her first BEFORE trying to date and take her out....in my eyes that makes perfect sense.

Know what you may be getting yourself into at least before you actually start doing things like spending time, money etc.

 

[xxracerxx]

Person who has shitty sexist and racist opinions about women has a hard time finding women who want to date him.

Okay.

Yup, surprise surprise.

Also, trying to find a woman to date while being a mall kiosk guy is hilarious considering I feel like 99% of shoppers avoid those kiosks.

 

[RustyNails]

Your friend is looking to date around first. Typically the desi girls have marriage mentality and your buddy is not interested in that, especially the ones that just arrive.

 

["D"]

No problems for me. I'm dating a girl of Pakistani descent and she's amazing.

Your friend has either had some bad luck or he's using code - upfront = more "loose" and willing to bang.

Crazy thing is, he's pretty devout in his religion and is a proud virgin until marriage (at least that's what he tells me)

He's even been coy about talking to American women cause he isn't sure how to deal with the "perception" that we are more willing to have sex outside of marriage than what he is used to in his culture...and is nervous about being put in that situation should it arise

 

["D"]

Yup, surprise surprise.

Also, trying to find a woman to date while being a mall kiosk guy is hilarious considering I feel like 99% of shoppers avoid those kiosks.

To his defense he actually owns and operates it lol but I get what you're saying

 

[Kisaya]

Thank god people here know Middle eastern geography.

I think it's funny your friend is complaining about brown women when brown men are the reason things are always fucked up in the culture.

 

[Silphonica]

Do you often regard stereotypes about people's personalities based on geographical location as true?

Not that I agree with the "stereotype" in the OP because I don't know.

But how do you think a stereotype comes to exist in the first place.