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[Jintor]

Boy's Love...?

yeah, genre name you can often see in (more speciality orientated) bookstores.

loanwords are everywhere.

 

[MHWilliams]

Bōizu Rabu

Boy's Love...?

Japanese name for male-on-male romantic works aimed at women. Also shortened to just BL.

 

[Laevateinn]

The phonetic alphabet used for loan words specifically calls them out as loan words. People who want to look them up will be aware that if the word in question isn't a well-established loan word then they'll have to figure out what the word looked before being written out phonetically in order to pop it into a translation dictionary. This is probably more of a problem for people trying to figure out if "infinite undiscovery" actually means anything than it is for people looking to have actual words translated, though.

Also, I believe english is a required subject after a certain point, though I don't know how much of it.

I believe Japan requires English from 5th grade on. The problem with English in Japan is that most teachers barely know it and they only really study to read and pass their college entrance exams.

 

[L95]

yeah, genre name you can often see in (more speciality orientated) bookstores.

loanwords are everywhere.

Oh, yeah. For some reason I forgot it was a genre, I was thinking it was a specific title to something for some reason. I knew I heard that somewhere before though lol

 

[Thelonelykoopa]

That's really what Japan is as a culture. It's a culture on the periphery of civilization that can borrow things at its own leisure, while still maintaining a unique character. Borrowing from China and now borrowing from America (some from Portugal, Germany and England in there too)

Yeah actually Japan uses the German names for medicines if I remember correctly.

 

[Teggy]

Reposting myself from above, with edits:

I literally just looked them up in a Japanese-English dictionary. They are Japanese words in the way "katana" is an English word. It's a word from a different language adopted and spelled with the local writing system.

Did a little wikipedia-ing and I see that Kanji is the writing most analogous to Chinese characters, and Katakana is the simplified version used to break down words into sounds. Not understanding this before I didn't see how you were making actual words out of the Katakana. I take it Kanji is not really used much then?

Also, would there be a Katakana word for "fire" that doesn't sound like "fire" or would that only be in Kanji?

 

[Trojita]

I find it interesting when a culture takes a loan-word from another country but ends up with a completely different meaning than the loaner culture.

"Bitch" in American slang is used to describe someone or something as annoying or submissive. It was a word taken from the name for a female dog.

"Bitch" in Japanese (in this case literally saying bicchi ビッ&#12481 is used to describe a woman as being a complete slut. Could be taken also from saying a woman is like a dog in heat.

 

[Delicious Waffles]

Just to piggyback off of the original question is a question I've always been curious about when it comes to the Japanese language. Just bear with me when it comes to an example.

An example I'd use in English is "I have a bicycle." In Italian, the same sentence would be "Io ho una bicicletta." When seeing both sentences, you can see that they're laid out the same. Basically, you can pick out each word in both languages. However, I noticed that if I'm watching anime and an English word is thrown into a sentence, the word doesn't always fall where it would when reading subtitles. Sometimes it does but not all the time. Am I right in thinking this way? If so, why? It seems like sentences are jumbled up.

Just something I've always been curious about so if anyone could shed some light on this for me, I'd greatly appreciate it.

 

[Inquisitive_Ghost]

Did a little wikipedia-ing and I see that Kanji is the writing most analogous to Chinese characters, and Katakana is the simplified version used to break down words into sounds. Not understanding this before I didn't see how you were making actual words out of the Katakana. I take it Kanji is not really used much then?

Also, would there be a Katakana word for "fire" that doesn't sound like "fire" or would that only be in Kanji?

No, kanji is used heavily, as is hiragana. Katakana gets a decent amount of use, too. Your average sentence is going to be kanji or some combination of kanji and hiragana.

The kanji for "fire" is 火.

Katakana is used primarily for loanwords and sound effects, among other things.

 

[Teggy]

No, kanji is used heavily, as is hiragana. Katakana gets a decent amount of use, too. Your average sentence is going to be kanji or some combination of kanji and hiragana.

The kanji for "fire" is 火.

Katakana is used primarily for loanwords and sound effects, among other things.

Oh, so they can be mixed together. Interesting, thanks for the clarification.

 

[BocoDragon]

Just to piggyback off of the original question is a question I've always been curious about when it comes to the Japanese language. Just bear with me when it comes to an example.

An example I'd use in English is "I have a bicycle." In Italian, the same sentence would be "Io ho una bicicletta." When seeing both sentences, you can see that they're laid out the same. Basically, you can pick out each word in both languages. However, I noticed that if I'm watching anime and an English word is thrown into a sentence, the word doesn't always fall where it would when reading subtitles. Sometimes it does but not all the time. Am I right in thinking this way? If so, why? It seems like sentences are jumbled up.

Just something I've always been curious about so if anyone could shed some light on this for me, I'd greatly appreciate it.

Yeah. Japanese has a different sentence structure. It's the same as Korean or Yoda.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subject–object–verb

 

[Thelonelykoopa]

Did a little wikipedia-ing and I see that Kanji is the writing most analogous to Chinese characters, and Katakana is the simplified version used to break down words into sounds. Not understanding this before I didn't see how you were making actual words out of the Katakana. I take it Kanji is not really used much then?

Also, would there be a Katakana word for "fire" that doesn't sound like "fire" or would that only be in Kanji?

No you got it a bit wrong . Kanji are Chinese introduced to japan by China to give them a written language. Later on Hiragana and Katakana was developed. Hiragana are for native japanese words and typically have an equivalate in Kanji for example. ひ is the hiragana(and how you pronounce it ) for fire but it is more commonly seen being shown with the kanji 火 . Katakana is used for names and words they loaned from normally western countries.

 

[Inquisitive_Ghost]

Just to piggyback off of the original question is a question I've always been curious about when it comes to the Japanese language. Just bear with me when it comes to an example.

An example I'd use in English is "I have a bicycle." In Italian, the same sentence would be "Io ho una bicicletta." When seeing both sentences, you can see that they're laid out the same. Basically, you can pick out each word in both languages. However, I noticed that if I'm watching anime and an English word is thrown into a sentence, the word doesn't always fall where it would when reading subtitles. Sometimes it does but not all the time. Am I right in thinking this way? If so, why? It seems like sentences are jumbled up.

Just something I've always been curious about so if anyone could shed some light on this for me, I'd greatly appreciate it.

English is subject>verb>object. Japanese is subject>object>verb, among being wildly different in general.

Look up word order as it relates to different languages for more.

 

[butzopower]

It's sort of like how British English has words like fillet (filet) and chilli (chili), borrowed words that are pronounced more closely to how the language is spoken.

 

[OldGangWarily]

Interestingly, the characters in Fire Emblem games refer to in-game Fire Emblem it as "Honoo no monshou" (炎の紋&#31456 which obviously translates to "Fire Emblem".

 

[Delicious Waffles]

Yeah. Japanese has a different sentence structure. It's the same as Korean or Yoda.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subject–object–verb

English is subject>verb>object. Japanese is subject>object>verb, among being wildly different in general.

Look up word order as it relates to different languages for more.

I see. Definitely going to look into it.

Thanks for the responses. Appreciate it!

 

[Jintor]

I find it interesting when a culture takes a loan-word from another country but ends up with a completely different meaning than the loaner culture.

"Bitch" in American slang is used to describe someone or something as annoying or submissive. It was a word taken from the name for a female dog.

"Bitch" in Japanese (in this case literally saying bicchi ビッ&#12481 is used to describe a woman as being a complete slut. Could be taken also from saying a woman is like a dog in heat.

i don't think the meaning has diverged that significantly; the japanese usage is easily understandable by someone used to the american usage, although the nuances are different.

Wasei-eigo (loanwords) can be pretty weird though. You're a real ペーパードライバー！

 

[L95]

Interestingly, the characters in Fire Emblem games refer to in-game Fire Emblem it as "Honoo no monshou" (炎の紋&#31456 which obviously translates to "Fire Emblem".

Fire Emblem: Mystery of the Emblem also does this right in the title of the game.

ファイアーエムブレム　紋章の謎

(Though I think some FE games actually call the FE by the katakana name. Like, uh, I actually think Awakening calls the FE the katakana name after all the gems are in it or something. I know some FEs switch the name when something important happens. I remember fan translation peeps for FE6 talking about it too.)

 

[Inquisitive_Ghost]

Oh, so they can be mixed together. Interesting, thanks for the clarification.

They are almost always mixed together, depending on what you are trying to say. Verbs, for example, are typically a leading kanji followed by hiragana "tails." An easy example is "to eat", or "taberu." In Japanese, it's 食べる. The first character is a kanji, an ideograph. The second and third are hiragana, and phonetic. You have to remember the pronunciations for kanji individually. Nouns are usually kanji, but some are hiragana, etc. Language is always a bit random no matter which one you're looking at.

 

[Thelonelykoopa]

They are almost always mixed together, depending on what you are trying to say. Verbs, for example, are typically a leading kanji followed by hiragana "tails." An easy example is "to eat", or "taberu." In Japanese, it's 食べる. The first character is a kanji, an ideograph. The second and third are hiragana, and phonetic. You have to remember the pronunciations for kanji individually. Nouns are usually kanji, but some are hiragana, etc. Language is always a bit random no matter which one you're looking at.

It should be mentioned this is done because it makes it easier to read as Japanese doesn't use spaces when it's written and so if you only used Hiragana and Katakana it would be a confusing mess. (Note: on early video game consoles they wasn't able to use Kanji so they had to stick with Hiragana and katakana only so they did add spaces in those.)

 

[L95]

(Though I think some FE games actually call the FE by the katakana name. Like, uh, I actually think Awakening calls the FE the katakana name after all the gems are in it or something. I know some FEs switch the name when something important happens. I remember fan translation peeps for FE6 talking about it too.)

Yes, at least FE6 calls it "ファイアーエムブレム" in dialogue lategame.

Roy:
封印されてるからだよ
『ファイアーエムブレム』を使わないと▼

(...this, uh, isn't entirely relevant, I just kinda wanted to find it to see if I could lol)

 

[Log4Girlz]

Ask a brit to say Fire. You get Fiya. So odd how they drop their R's.

 

[Aeana]

Yeah. Japanese has a different sentence structure. It's the same as Korean or Yoda.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subject–object–verb

Japanese isn't exactly SOV. Japanese doesn't use a subject in the same way English does (and this is one of the main reasons why English speakers have such a difficult time with は/&#12364, and the general order of words in a sentence is somewhat freeform in Japanese, because the components are marked by particles. This means that you can change the order of components in a Japanese sentence and retain the same meaning. The only real rule is that the verb comes at the end of a clause, and that can't change. A basic example being "toshokan de hon o yonda" and "hon o toshokan de yonda" both meaning "I read a book in the library," because the important thing here is that hon is marked by o (object marker) and toshokan is marked by de (location marker).

 

[Thelonelykoopa]

Japanese isn't exactly SOV. Japanese doesn't use a subject in the same way English does (and this is one of the main reasons why English speakers have such a difficult time with は/&#12364, and the general order of words in a sentence is somewhat freeform in Japanese, because the components are marked by particles. This means that you can change the order of components in a Japanese sentence and retain the same meaning. The only real rule is that the verb comes at the end of a clause, and that can't change. A basic example being "toshokan de hon o yonda" and "hon o toshokan de yonda" both meaning "I read a book in the library," because the important thing here is that hon is marked by o (object marker) and toshokan is marked by de (location marker).

Yeah this is something a lot of learning material glosses over and can lead to some awkwardness when your speaking to an actual Japanese person (Not to mention schools typically only teach formal Japanese which will also make talking a bit awkward trust me)

 

[OldGangWarily]

Yes, at least FE6 calls it "ファイアーエムブレム" in dialogue lategame.

Roy:
封印されてるからだよ
『ファイアーエムブレム』を使わないと▼

(...this, uh, isn't entirely relevant, I just kinda wanted to find it to see if I could lol)

Haha! Thanks for the clarification. I've been playing a lot of FE: If so it was something I noticed in that particular game.

 

[bigmit3737]

Maybe this is a misunderstanding on my part. Is there a dictionary where you can find ファイアー and エンブレム? I was under the impression they were just some phonetic spellings.

edit: sounds like I just don't understand the nuances of Japanese spelling.

There word エンブレム　seems to be used in everyday Japanese language.

"東京2020大会エンブレムデザイン"

Here it's being used in regards to the 2020 Olympics.

"Fire" doesn't seem to be used outside of names/titles (based off my quick search)

 

[Sakura]

I get that they can read it, but does it mean anything to them other than a bunch of sounds?

I don't know if it really matters though does it?
I played Morrowind when I was a kid. Does Morrowind mean anything to me before playing the game? They're just words. They sound cool. It doesn't really matter if a kid knows what Emblem is supposed to mean or not.
And of course if they really cared they could just google it.
Either way Fire and Emblem are both words that appear in Japanese.

 

[Princess Viola]

I've always wondered why Japanese pronounces words like triceratops with a k sound, is that like closer to the original Greek or Latin roots or something?

 

[Thelonelykoopa]

I've always wondered why Japanese pronounces words like triceratops with a k sound, is that like closer to the original Greek or Latin roots or something?

They are pronounce it how they spell it in Kana


ト リ ケ ラ ト プ ス

To ri ke ra to pu su

(Also my dictionary says it's from Latin so it's a Latin loan word. )

 

[fredrancour]

They are pronounce it how they spell it in Kana


ト リ ケ ラ ト プ ス

To ri ke ra to pu su

He means, why did using a "ke" instead of a "se" gain acceptance?

 

[Aeana]

He means, why did using a "ke" instead of a "se" gain acceptance?

Because that's how it's pronounced in the original Greek (τρι-κέρας-ω&#968. You get the same with Cerberus (ケルベロス/keruberosu) in Japanese, because it comes from the Greek Κέρβερος.

 

[Frozenprince]

He means, why did using a "ke" instead of a "se" gain acceptance?

Because that phonetic wording is just how the language is structured, C in greek sounds more like K.

 

[Princess Viola]

He means, why did using a "ke" instead of a "se" gain acceptance?

She, actually

Because that's how it's pronounced in the original Greek (τρι-κέρας-ω&#968. You get the same with Cerberus (ケルベロス/keruberosu) in Japanese, because it comes from the Greek Κέρβερος.

Because that phonetic wording is just how the language is structured, C in greek sounds more like K.

thanks

 

[KtSlime]

It's not really the same thing, though. If a game is named "Deus Ex", I can look up the translation. If a game is named "Faia Embrum", I can't look it up because those are not words.

But the disconnect here is maybe not being aware that most Japanese people already know English (if that is the case).

Sure you can, this is the entry for Faia in one of the most popular Japanese dictionaries, the Daijirin:

ファイア〖fire〗
火。炎。多く外来語と複合して用いられる。「キャンプ-━」