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[hobblygobbly]

OP I think you should clarify for the U.S or Europe because U.S liberalism and right-wing/conservatism is a lot different from Europe's (for a simple example - the clear difference on views of welfare). I see European conservatives engaging a lot in European-centric threads along with centre-lefts. While the majority of Europeans on GAF are centre-left I still see a fair amount of engagement of all ideas even though what you describe comes up a lot still even with European-centric threads.

 

[Ray Wonder]

a certain narrative has to be retained. otherwise the whole thing starts to fall apart.

But to me, this:

racist and bigoted viewpoints shouldn't be accepted.

Read like "lol repubs!"

 

[Laieon]

racist and bigoted viewpoints shouldn't be accepted.

According to webster, a bigot is a person who hates or refuses to accept the members of a particular group.

If you assume all conservatives are the same and therefore strongly dislike them, does that not make you a bigot as well?

]Not all their points do I consider flat out wrong. Sometimes it's just a matter of values and although I disagree with their choice, I can be made to understand it and in some cases even empathize with it.

This is how I feel as well.

 

[Pop On Arrival]

a certain narrative has to be retained. otherwise the whole thing starts to fall apart.

you have not one said one useful thing in this thread except bring it to the brink of an actual argument. Can you please just go away if you're not gonna back up the shit you say.

 

[Herbs]

Yet conservative talking points and views are setup to perpetuate or promote inequality and racism.

There is a barrier here that can't seem to be surmounted. Your point gets said many times and yet it's dismissed like mine was. Heads buried in the sand.

 

[iMax]

Yet conservative talking points and views are setup to perpetuate or promote inequality and racism.

No, you're talking about the GOP and Fox News. Those are setup in the way you cite but conservatism is far bigger than that.

 

[Makai]

According to webster, a bigot is a person who hates or refuses to accept the members of a particular group.

Checkmate.

 

[PsychBat!]

There is a barrier here that can't seem to be surmounted. Your point gets said many times and yet it's dismissed like mine was. Heads buried in the sand.

Dismissed like yours?

 

[disastermouse]

I think stuff like this is one of the reasons...



conservatism ≠ racism and bigotry

Exactly! Sometimes white privilege is unaware of itself, sometimes male privilege is unaware of itself, but that doesn't mean that white men don't have a point of view that's inaccessible to people who aren't white men. They may have something to say that is helpful and yet doesn't fully agree with or endorse the feminist or ethnic minority viewpoint.

 

[iMax]

There is a barrier here that can't seem to be surmounted. Your point gets said many times and yet it's dismissed like mine was. Heads buried in the sand.

Can you not step back here and understand that the same applies to you?

According to webster, a bigot is a person who hates or refuses to accept the members of a particular group.

If you assume all conservatives are the same and therefore strongly dislike them, does that not make you a bigot as well?

Depends if he recognises them as people.

 

[John Dunbar]

have conservatives ever been right about anything?

 

[ZackieChan]

I'm very liberal, but I get shit on every time I suggest that somebody do something entrepreneurial or that they have any power to change their situation in life. It's usually followed by calls of "bootstraps," as if that's an argument, followed by someone providing a goalpost-moving example of a person who has literally no way out of their current situation, as if that stands for everyone.

It is pretty disturbing how people sometimes refuse to see that it is, indeed, possible to do things on your own to change your life. That's really the only "conservative" viewpoint I have.

 

[Herbs]

have conservatives ever been right about anything?

sometimes, yes

 

[ldcommando]

always

 

[Moral Panic]

Yet conservative talking points and views are setup to perpetuate or promote inequality and racism.

Conservative != Republican

 

[JoeBoy101]

have conservatives ever been right about anything?

Good to know your measure of whether you treat a poster with respect is whether they are right about things.

 

[RulkezX]

I'm not American but the UK conservatives are easily further to the left than the US democrats.

Exactly.

But there are a lot of posters that seem to assume "conservative" means t right wing fanatic.


In the UK this week we are going to see conservative MP's rebel against their own Chancellor and vote against welfare cuts.

 

[DragonSworne]

According to webster, a bigot is a person who hates or refuses to accept the members of a particular group.

If you assume all conservatives are the same and therefore strongly dislike them, does that not make you a bigot as well?

You got a point. I'll remember this definition next time I run across news about a KKK member or neo nazi. I shpuldn't be bigoted and dimiss them right away because of the group they asscocite with.

 

[Servbot24]

have conservatives ever been right about anything?

Nope, everyone is wrong except for you.

 

[Herbs]

You got a point. I'll remember this definition next time I run across news about a KKK member or neo nazi. I shpuldn't be bigoted and dimiss them right away because of the group they asscocite with.

why even bother responding to his post. it's fallacious in it's composition and I doubt he sees why.

 

[iMax]

You got a point. I'll remember this definition next time I run across news about a KKK member or neo nazi. I shpuldn't be bigoted and dimiss them right away because of the group they asscocite with.

So you're now comparing conservatives to the KKK and the nazis? Honestly, this is probably why this thread exists.

 

[disastermouse]

I'm very liberal, but I get shit on every time I suggest that somebody do something entrepreneurial or that they have any power to change their situation in life. It's usually followed by calls of "bootstraps," as if that's an argument, followed by someone providing a goalpost-moving example of a person who has literally no way out of their current situation, as if that stands for everyone.

It is pretty disturbing how people sometimes refuse to see that it is, indeed, possible to do things on your own to change your life. That's really the only "conservative" viewpoint I have.

I think there's an unacknowledged tendency to equate 'successful in a capitalist system' with 'success' full-stop. The problem is that some people really do not have the strengths in the areas that capitalism values and hence are viewed as having no value. However, many people have strengths that our society DOES need even if capitalism doesn't directly reward them and the implication that people should adopt the rules of capitalism to succeed also ignores the fact that capitalism is a shitty, shitty game with a requirement for losers that's not justified by actual resource availability.

 

[DragonSworne]

So you're now comparing conservatives to the KKK and the nazis? Honestly, this is probably why this thread exists.

That's exactly what I did. Yep.

Where did I say, conservatives are like KKK and nazis? Oh, I didn't.

 

[Ray Wonder]

You got a point. I'll remember this definition next time I run across news about a KKK member or neo nazi. I shpuldn't be bigoted and dimiss them right away because of the group they asscocite with.

No you definitely should be bigoted towards them.

Just because you're using the word correctly when describing yourself, doesn't make you an evil devil person. Just using a word that has a stigma.

 

[Makai]

have conservatives ever been right about anything?

No, but you have.

Spoiler

imo - deregulation of various industries, globalization, global hegemony, GMOs, nuclear power

 

[iMax]

That's exactly what I did. Yep.

Where did I say, conservatives are like KKK and nazis? Oh, I didn't.

You didn't. That's not what comparing means. You're using it as a scenario to justify your position though, which is despicable enough.

 

[dramatis]

But to me, this:



Read like "lol repubs!"

That doesn't read like "lol repubs!" at all. It's a clear statement with a reason for an opinion written into it. If you think that is an insult from your perspective, then I can understand why you think people are dogpiling you, even if what they're doing is actually just presenting arguments or reasonings.

 

[Laieon]

why even bother responding to his post. it's fallacious in it's composition and I doubt he sees why.

Then educate me.

 

[iMax]

That doesn't read like "lol repubs!" at all. It's a clear statement with a reason for an opinion written into it. If you think that is an insult from your perspective, then I can understand why you think people are dogpiling you, even if what they're doing is actually just presenting arguments or reasonings.

If people seriously think that conservatism is just the GOP, more than anything it just reeks of ignorance and indifference.

 

[Moff]

According to webster, a bigot is a person who hates or refuses to accept the members of a particular group.

If you assume all conservatives are the same and therefore strongly dislike them, does that not make you a bigot as well?

this is obviously a flawed description of the term.
"refusing to accept" ISIS for instance certainly doesn't make you a bigot.
the examples given work, race and religion.

it's certainly not bigoted to dislike conservatives, and of course, disliking liberals is not bigotry either.

 

[Bjomesphat]

I'm left of center (though on GAF that equates to far right), but the few times I share my opinion I don't bother responding to the inevitable backlash. If people don't want to have a thoughtful discussion, then I have no interest in engaging. I say my piece, get out, and then lurk and chuckle at all of the quotes and responses.

 

[Sexually Aggressive Uncle]

I'm pretty liberal and have never, and probably will never, vote Republican but the attitude around here towards others with conservative viewpoints is really fucking disgusting. It's out of control, IMO. And one wrong move and they get banned. There's no real discussion because there's basically a zero tolerance policy around here for not agreeing with the super majority. It's fucked up.

You hate loud mouth tea party bullshit? Well so do I but to me poli GAF comes across as the other side of the same coin and equally annoying.

 

[OminoMichelin]

Yeah, understanding this is very difficult for some liberals.

There's a lot of confusion about what conservativism is and isn't.
In fact, I don't think a unified, consistent definition of conservativism exists. It changes a lot with the time and place.

I feel that social conservatives somehow just like the term. Conserve the old values and traditions as if that means anything in the real world.
On GAF, we have an xtremely diverse demographiceople from literaally all over the world, of every gender, sexual orientation, phenotype and with the most diverse life stories.
The reason why social conservatives don't last long on this forum should be obvious.

Then there are economic conservatives, of which there were many on GAF until a couple years back, and they were good at discussing economic issues. Part of them just left because it always ended up retreading the same topic over and over. Others were banned because economics was not the only topic they had strong feelings about.
Today, in face of the self evident results of austerity measures, corporate tax cuts, and the philosophy that accompanies these poilicies, liberals (other loaded term btw) on GAF now feel like there's nothing to discuss anymore.

The only thing I still see gaffers arguing about vehemently is gun control, because there's a lot of gun owners on gaf.

"Conservatives" on gaf should probably just come to terms that they need to argue much better and much more carefully their stances on most topics. As much as one would hope so, not every viewpoint is welcome. For that, there's reddit (yep...). I'm ok with that: I'm not much into arguing with people anymore, and I can find my own contradictory if I find interesting news.

 

[Pop On Arrival]

@ Ryuelli Just block him dude. He is literally the epitome of head buried in the sand person who can't take any other statement that goes against what he has been told. I've already done it.

Just him having some eceleb as an avatar alone is reason enough tbqh.

jk ofc.

 

[Herbs]

Then educate me.

this is obviously a flawed description of the term.
"refusing to accept" ISIS for instance certainly doesn't make you a bigot.
the examples given work, race and religion.

it's certainly not bigoted to dislike conservatives, and of course, disliking liberals is not bigotry either.

Moff does a pretty good job of explaining why it's fallacious. Being intolerant of intolerance is an absurd angle to take.

 

[balladofwindfishes]

Good to know your measure of whether you treat a poster with respect is whether they are right about things.

A person with factually incorrect view points can't be called out for it?

 

[Ray Wonder]

That doesn't read like "lol repubs!" at all. It's a clear statement with a reason for an opinion written into it. If you think that is an insult from your perspective, then I can understand why you think people are dogpiling you, even if what they're doing is actually just presenting arguments or reasonings.

See look how you present this. "If I think this, I'm terrible and deserve what's coming." Just think about it for a little bit.

To me it does read like "Lol repubs!"

It's saying racism and bigotry shouldn't be tolerated. Obviously this is true.

BUT, that's labeling all conservatives and republicans as racists and bigots. That's where the argument, and the "lol repubs!" comes from to me. Maybe I agree with what he said, but not what he implied.

 

[PsychBat!]

Moff does a pretty good job of explaining why it's fallacious.

I don't understand why you didn't explain it then.

 

[Makai]

The biggest intellectual failing of a lot of liberals is the idea that deregulation and privatization are automatically bad. Policies have specific effects that we can evaluate individually and synergistically. It's not like a sliding scale in an RPG where we just add more Reg points until we level up our economy.

 

[Herbs]

A person with factually incorrect view points can't be called out for it?

It often seems that way when it comes to conservatism.

 

[DragonSworne]

Conservative != Republican

In the United states were there is a two party system it effectively makes Conservatives = Republicans. You arem't going to find self proclaimed conservatives vote democrat. The vast majority of conservatives vote Republicans so they should be defined by their partis platform.

You don't get to vote Republican and disassociate yourself from the party by saying your "conservative". You are defined by your parties actions.

Don't like it, vote for someone else.

 

[JoeBoy101]

A person with factually incorrect view points can't be called out for it?

Note that I said with respect. Here's two statements:

"You're not considering the historical aspect of the conservative movement and that progression of liberal ideology has helped the world far more."

and

"Have fun sticking your head in the sand with the rest of the racists and bigots. We'll get along with the world without you."

Same call out. Totally different tone, no?

 

[Pop On Arrival]

OP I think you should clarify for the U.S or Europe because U.S liberalism and right-wing/conservatism is a lot different from Europe's (for a simple example - the clear difference on views of welfare). I see European conservatives engaging a lot in European-centric threads along with centre-lefts. While the majority of Europeans on GAF are centre-left I still see a fair amount of engagement of all ideas even though what you describe comes up a lot still even with European-centric threads.

Sorry m8, used to be in the UK, but I've been living in asia for over 12 years now so I'm more like a spectator now, to be honest. That's why I'm ignorant about so many shit, except what I find interesting and actually research on.

 

[-Pyromaniac-]

I'm not conservative but I avoid all controversial topics. It's not worth being on the minority side or saying something that gets misinterpreted and having to defend yourself, etc etc... The hassle to benefit ratio is out of whack lol.

 

[iMax]

In the United states were there is a two party system it effectively makes Conservatives = Republicans. You arem't going to find self proclaimed conservatives vote democrat. The vast majority of conservatives vote Republicans so they should be defined by their partis platform.

You don't get to vote Republican and disassociate yourself from the party by saying your "conservative". You are defined by your parties actions.

Don't like it, vote for someone else.

OP didn't specify. Just said conservatism. We're not all in the US.

 

[Herbs]

In the United states were there is a two party system it effectively makes Conservatives = Republicans. You arem't going to find self proclaimed conservatives vote democrat. The vast majority of conservatives vote Republicans so they should be defined by their partis platform.

You don't get to vote Republican and don sscoaite yourself from the party by saying your "conservative". You are defined by your parties actions.

Don't like it, vote for someone else.

It is amazing how simple of a solution it is. I'm liberal but don't take umbrage with being assigned automatically as a democrat because of my beliefs even though they often don't align. Though democrats don't really have any despicable viewpoints that hinder social issues so I guess it is easier to just play along.

 

[LyleLanley]

I find this is the problem with discussing politics with either side. Most of the time people are just interested in making the other side look like idiots.

 

[JoeBoy101]

I'm not conservative but I avoid all controversial topics. It's not worth being on the minority side or saying something that gets misinterpreted and having to defend yourself, etc etc... The hassle to benefit ratio is out of whack lol.

This. Its not really a political topic so much as an Internet one.

 

[Ray Wonder]

In the United states were there is a two party system it effectively makes Conservatives = Republicans. You arem't going to find self proclaimed conservatives vote democrat. The vast majority of conservatives vote Republicans so they should be defined by their partis platform.

You don't get to vote Republican and disassociate yourself from the party by saying your "conservative". You are defined by your parties actions.

Don't like it, vote for someone else.

So if you're conservative, you're automatically defined by the GOP actions?

Even if you don't vote, or vote as left as possible in GOP?

Seems unfair to me.

 

[dramatis]

If people seriously think that conservatism is just the GOP, more than anything it just reeks of ignorance and indifference.

I get that what people want to say is that they're not Republican, they're conservative. But if the first thing done is always to get offended by the implication and consider a simple opinion like that as an insult rather than thinking about the actual topic and perhaps denouncing racism and bigotry and differentiating from the Republicans, then why would you blame others for being ignorant and indifferent about grouping conservatives with Republicans?