1.21Gigawatts
Banned
Well, one side is arguing for a more inclusive medium and more responsible and aware content creation.
While the other side wants to continue to be racist, sexist, xenophobic and just generally raging assholes to everyone.
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r/games boycotts April's fools for political statement.
- Thread starter Teslerum
- Start date
While the other side wants to continue to be racist, sexist, xenophobic and just generally raging assholes to everyone.
VectorVictor
Member
I'm sorry if I used what you said and extrapolated on it using a real world example.
If you'd prefer fantasy, maybe we should be discussing RPGs instead?
ZeroGravity
Member
You lose the moral high ground with approaches like this as soon as you start taking things like "GAMERS RISE UP" seriously and anything more than shitposting.
ThatStupidLion
Member
I'd say that if this truly were a joke, they would have let you still access r/games somehow
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a multicultural team of v
Member
Inclusion by banning - the left in a nutshell.
Mihos
Gold Member
All I read from this: "push my agenda" or we will accuse you of being a racist, sexist, xenophobic, raging asshole.
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HeresJohnny
Member
More evidence Leftists are the fucking Fun Police. How can people who make entertainment be so absolutely stiff? Only the Left could turn April Fool's Day into Finger Wagging Day.
1.21Gigawatts
Banned
Eh, I am sure that the industry can deal without a bunch of uneducated, immature airheads who think that representation and inclusiveness are bad things and racism, xenophobia and sexism are actual problems.
These mods have to go through mountains of this shit every day.
They have linked several examples of what they mean.
How is this a joke to you? Do think its okay or funny?
A more diverse and more inclusive games industry will grow much bigger than a hostile, racist, sexist and just generally regressive one.
Nothing would be lost if the Anti-SJWs would just abandon this medium, but they probably won't. They will cry like they always do and keep playing games because they got nothing else to do.
And at the end of the day they will benefit from more diverse and inclusive and better games, which is kinda unfair but thats just the way it is.
DunDunDunpachi
Banned
I'm more of a shmup guy.
mcz117chief
Member
Yeah, holy hell at that. "Women's Health charities" are just abortion clinics, how can someone be that insensitive. It makes my skin crawl.
1.21Gigawatts
Banned
Thats your problem, though.
I would say its more like: "I will accuse you of being a racist, xenophobic ranging asshole if you post stuff like this:"
Come one, aren't you all always crying about "Where is the proof/source?", the reddit mods linked tons of examples of what they mean and you guys are still defending it.
1.21Gigawatts
Banned
You can't tolerate intolerance. Very basic rule. And it doesn't make you intolerant yourself, its just reasonable.
Tripolygon
Banned
Good for r/games.
DunDunDunpachi
Banned
How convenient that the ones who try to define "intolerance" also aggressively demand that others abide by this rule.
Cult behavior.
Radical Dreamer
Banned
Reddit is a joke anyways . So woke unemployed mods. Wow. Much respect.
The Scrivener
Member
Is this an April Fool's?
Helios
Member
/r/games moderators thinking of themselves as God's gift to this planet, sent here to get rid of all the hate, one extremely dumb rule at a time? So what exactly has changed?
On a more serious note, this is not surprising at all. Their moderators are some of the worst I've seen. Every single semi-political thread turns into a graveyard of deleted posts and gets locked down the moment it turns into something they don't agree with it. And to justify this attitude by cherrypicking comments that would be banned everywhere and that are always going to be downvoted to hell anyway is standard for them I guess.
On a more serious note, this is not surprising at all. Their moderators are some of the worst I've seen. Every single semi-political thread turns into a graveyard of deleted posts and gets locked down the moment it turns into something they don't agree with it. And to justify this attitude by cherrypicking comments that would be banned everywhere and that are always going to be downvoted to hell anyway is standard for them I guess.
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Tripolygon
Banned
Don't be an asshole, it is not that difficult.
There is a clear difference between two individuals having a heated debate and disagreeing and just outright being a douche-bag.
SurprisedPikachu
Member
I stopped going to Reddit altogether because I have better discussions here on NeoGAF. I deleted my account and removed Apollo from my phone. It's activist garbage like what r/Games is doing that contribute to the division of communities.
DunDunDunpachi
Banned
Why are you spamming me with screencaps?Don't be an asshole, it is not that difficult.
There is a clear difference between two individuals having a heated debate and disagreeing and just outright being a douche-bag.
The notion that one group gets to define "intolerance" and then shout down everyone else who doesn't agree with this definition or abide by it is cultish, full stop.
Calling me an asshole then trying to appeal to my emotions with a random screencap doesn't refute what I described in the prior sentence. It reaffirms it.
petran79
Banned
Merkel and countless other Euro-conservatives over 50 were members of the Communist party so they know the inner workings of the Left as well, though in reality they mix the worst authoritanianism and economic policy of both left and right
Tripolygon
Banned
No its not. Being intolerant leads to the division of communities. Pointing out intolerance does not lead to the division of communities.
1.21Gigawatts
Banned
So would you argue that this isn't intolerance:
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Tripolygon
Banned
I'm not calling you an asshole, im telling you what the rules are. Apologies if it came off that way.
And those screengrabs are what the mods are talking about. Those are examples of asshole behavior that the one group define as intolerant. And i wasn't trying to appeal to your emotions.
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Sqorin Hammerfarf
Banned
Do you consider me an uneducated, immature airhead? Do you think the industry would be better without me? Be honest. I legitimately want to know.
They are moderators. Their job is to go through that shit. If they don't want to do it, they should never have volunteered in the first place. They just want the power trip without the responsibility, so fuck them.
How is this not a joke? A giant message board just shut down to protest its own users.
"Anti-SJWs" are the only ones playing games. You think the people who are complaining that the new Dora the Explorer movie is too sexy are out there buying games? Their view of "acceptable" is so narrow that there's maybe a handful of games they could tolerate - not that they'd actually buy and play them.
There's nothing wrong with diverse and inclusive games - but that diversity and inclusiveness must allow for the people making the games to make games with characters that look like themselves and their audience. If every game with a white male lead or a sexy female in it is crucified for not featuring minorities - with the excuse that minorities only play games with characters that look like them - then that is the height of hypocrisy. It's also moronic.
DunDunDunpachi
Banned
So you would argue that it is? We can play this game back and forth.
Appealing to my emotions doesn't give you moral authority over what is or isn't intolerant. Instead of baiting me and asking what I think, how 'bout you give a concrete reason why "intolerance shouldn't be tolerated"? It's not even a logical statement and therefore comes across as teenage-angst-fueled pseudo-philosophy for simpletons.
And we are in a thread discussing other vapid statemenets like "Do Better, Be Better".
0 for 2 so far.
It looks like an example of internet talk being extrapolated to crack down on dissenting voices.
iconmaster
Banned
The inevitable backlash is going to be something to see. I hope I'm still around for it.
Tripolygon
Banned
I don't see any dissenting voices, just assholes.
Edit: I do have to admit, that screencap made me laugh more than i expected.
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DunDunDunpachi
Banned
Okay cool. That looks like an example of internet talk being extrapolated to crack down on dissenting voices as I mentioned in my last post.I don't see any dissenting voices, just assholes.
You can use the term "intolerance" or the phrase "don't be an asshole", but it boils down to the same question: where's moral authority to define this? It's a videogame subreddit.
We're just shrugging off the fact that basement-dwelling authoritarians are forcing their politics into games. "The right kind of intolerance isn't intolerance" should be the mantra for these losers.
Tripolygon
Banned
You and me both. Biblical backlash, i can just picture folks furiously typing at their keyboards.
DangerStepp
Member
Has there been any long term research on whether lording over others and telling them how to behave actually works?
Paracelsus
Member
These cherrypicked posts exist but are downvoted into oblivion. You can find the same comments on r/politics and r/worldnews. They're still liberal hugboxes because these comments are bottom and hidden and the top 5000 comments are all progressive circlejerk.
Here, a movie from 26 years ago describing reddit and resetera.
Hopefully the current reddit mods are forced to step down.
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Helios
Member
Those screenshots are only a small fraction of what they delete. There are plenty of comments that get deleted that don't come even close to what they're showing. Yet they take those screenshots to justify their asinine rules and than go "Look guys, we're helping the transgender folk". You've probably seen this type of behavior on somewhere else on the internet.
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a multicultural team of v
Member
Nowhere in that comment do I see calls for Sonic Fox to be silenced, banned, or otherwise kept from continuing on doing what he is doing. There are plenty of cases where the left is more than happy to ban and dictate what is allowed to be disseminated.
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Fox Mulder
Member
Wasn't subbed anyways.
Plenty of other subreddits that stick to their lane for the topic you actually went there for.
Plenty of other subreddits that stick to their lane for the topic you actually went there for.
Paracelsus
Member
Aside from the fact that screenshot in the imgur link says the truth, that's exactly the way it is.
Most of this sounds very harsh of what I have read but a lot of it is also speaking the truth I would probably have sentenced it a bit differently. But this is what people think these days of virtual signaling, SJW etc. Not Reddit created this atmosphere. People like Anita and CO did create it. Waypoint did create it And now people are fed up with this bullshit and go against it.
Also to note: This is not against trans people or gay eople etc. This is against an ideology people who happen to e trans or gay following like a cult
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KoolAidPitcher
Member
Oy vey. When I first saw this, I thought it was a joke to show how crazy and out of control the super "woke" types are. But nope, they actually locked the sub. I guess I shouldn't be surprised-- this is the same subreddit which deletes all threads complaining about Sony's censorship policies.
From my experience with gamers, they are some of the LEAST sexist, racist, and homophobic people I know. They are accepting of all, and don't deserve the unrelenting labeling and identity politics being shoved in their faces. They. Just. Want. To. Game. Sure, there is a small minority of bone heads, but that is true of any group as large and diverse as gaming.
What is more concerning than this small minority of bigots is a growing identitarian ideology which is having the opposite effect as to what they are advocating. They are actually fanning the flames of bigotry and polarizing people's beliefs due to their 'with us or against us' mentality. The road to hell is paved with good intentions.
From my experience with gamers, they are some of the LEAST sexist, racist, and homophobic people I know. They are accepting of all, and don't deserve the unrelenting labeling and identity politics being shoved in their faces. They. Just. Want. To. Game. Sure, there is a small minority of bone heads, but that is true of any group as large and diverse as gaming.
What is more concerning than this small minority of bigots is a growing identitarian ideology which is having the opposite effect as to what they are advocating. They are actually fanning the flames of bigotry and polarizing people's beliefs due to their 'with us or against us' mentality. The road to hell is paved with good intentions.
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1.21Gigawatts
Banned
If you defend this:
... and currently it looks like your are, then yes, I would consider you an uneducated, immature airhead, but most importantly I would consider you a hateful and terrible person.
Would you excuse crime in that way just because there are cops?
If you do not consider this kind of hate speech and its prevalence in gaming a problem that should be talked about and should be fixed, then I'd say we found our main point of disagreement.
If your users are shit thats a commendable thing to do.
Also, I'm not on Reddit, but I am sure its not all of their users. Reddit isn't 4chan afterall.
Pffft
I really don't see the games industry in a tough spot right now and the main reason for the massive investments currently seen is the expectation that the market will grow massively as gaming will become more available, more diverse and more inclusive.
1. Criticism isn't censorship. Video games, as a cultural and artistic medium, should always expect to be criticized from all kinds of perspectives. And as long as this criticism isn't possible without an avalanche of insults and other shit flying your way we have a problem.
2. You can still like a game, while at the same time realizing that certain aspects of it warrant some criticism. Iirc you were in the Tekken thread, too. I criticized SoulCalibur6's character designs, even though its my most played fighting game franchise and a franchise I have loved and played for over 10 years.
3. I don't think games with straight, while male characters are unfairly criticized. If the characters are bland this is certainly a point that will be raised. But just looking at this years big titles RDR2, God Of War, Spider-Man, I don't remember any one of these getting shit for featuring straight, white, male protagonists. And Days Gone won't get any shit for its white guy either. Unless the story is shit and the characters bland, then it will certainly be one point of criticism.
Burrito Bandito
Banned
the thing ive noticed about the internet is that anywhere moderation is minimal it becomes a "consevatuve" majority community and wherever moderation is heavy you get "liberal" communities.
this relates to the real world. some people prefer to exist in authoritarian enviornments
this relates to the real world. some people prefer to exist in authoritarian enviornments
DunDunDunpachi
Banned
Gaming used to be a hobby where people could join together based on shared interests. Even on forums, you didn't really bring your personal life into it. This was the root of the internet anonymity that has slowly vanished.
The unspoken rule is that the internet didn't care about your personal details, so don't bring them up. I think this philosophy was encapsulated in its purest form on the pre-GamerGate image boards (4chan et al) because you didn't even have a user and therefore no reputation to get salty over.
Picking handles like "cute_girl56" was sure to gain attention, but that's because you were breaking the rules. Don't bring your personal life into the internet. Your online persona should be a buffer between yourself and the internet at large. You don't want your gender to be brought up? Then don't bring it up. You don't want your race to be brought up? Then don't bring it up. This environment did not prevent people from finding common ground within the hobby on issues that were unique to the hobby.
Myspace and Facebook and the rest changed those rules. Suddenly, the internet was the place to bring in your personal life and to preach it from every streetcorner. Anything offensive was personally offensive against you instead of being dismissed as the dull background static of the internet that was always there. People became very sensitive, and what better way to encourage trolls than to affirm their trolling was successful? People willingly tossed aside the buffer of internet anonymity and things got worse, not better.
I think this countervails the assumption that anonymity leads to harassment. No, not quite. An imbalance of anonymity (meaning, some people are more open about their personal details than others) leads to harassment.
When you lower the barrier of entry to any hobby, the idiots will flood in. The notion that "gamers" are the ones who've fostered this us vs them mentality is 100% incorrect. It was the ideologues who flooded the scene with their "trigger warnings" and "literally shaking rn", which of course attracted all manner of trolls. This doesn't excuse the trolls, of course, but it doesn't condemn "gamers" either.
The unspoken rule is that the internet didn't care about your personal details, so don't bring them up. I think this philosophy was encapsulated in its purest form on the pre-GamerGate image boards (4chan et al) because you didn't even have a user and therefore no reputation to get salty over.
Picking handles like "cute_girl56" was sure to gain attention, but that's because you were breaking the rules. Don't bring your personal life into the internet. Your online persona should be a buffer between yourself and the internet at large. You don't want your gender to be brought up? Then don't bring it up. You don't want your race to be brought up? Then don't bring it up. This environment did not prevent people from finding common ground within the hobby on issues that were unique to the hobby.
Myspace and Facebook and the rest changed those rules. Suddenly, the internet was the place to bring in your personal life and to preach it from every streetcorner. Anything offensive was personally offensive against you instead of being dismissed as the dull background static of the internet that was always there. People became very sensitive, and what better way to encourage trolls than to affirm their trolling was successful? People willingly tossed aside the buffer of internet anonymity and things got worse, not better.
I think this countervails the assumption that anonymity leads to harassment. No, not quite. An imbalance of anonymity (meaning, some people are more open about their personal details than others) leads to harassment.
When you lower the barrier of entry to any hobby, the idiots will flood in. The notion that "gamers" are the ones who've fostered this us vs them mentality is 100% incorrect. It was the ideologues who flooded the scene with their "trigger warnings" and "literally shaking rn", which of course attracted all manner of trolls. This doesn't excuse the trolls, of course, but it doesn't condemn "gamers" either.
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Optimistic Gamer
Member
What the hell are you talking mate?
Yeah, thats highly dependant on country as well.
