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[Big Shirtless Ron]

Sure, but you're the better person, right? You want to make the world better? Deal with it.

LMAO, take the high road and suffer their shitty attitude and odious beliefs, and maybe one day you'll change their mind!

 

[Dude Abides]

Why do people get mad when I call them stupid instead of getting mad at how stupid they are?

 

[xenist]

Perhaps because the label gets thrown around like sweets on Halloween (on the internet). Sometimes people say things that are racially insensitive or ignorant, but that doesn't immediately make the speaker racist. Except on the internet, where it does.

Strangely enough in four decades on Earth I've yet to encounter this rare breed of man who says racist and ignorant things without being racist and ignorant. It's good to know they exist.

 

[Angelus Errare]

Yeah, it's a bad word, and that is why I don't get why some black people will use it themselves. The only thing they accomplish is to weaken the impact it has. It should have died a long time ago.

Now read what you said back to yourself and see what sense it makes.

"It weakens the impact it has" - Yea...why would black people want to try to take away the power in THAT word of all words. Mindboggling!

"It should have died a long time ago" - Because racists would have totally stopped using it the day equal rights passed.

 

[Atraveller]

Why do people get mad whem I call them stupid instead of getting mad at how stupid they are?

Do people choose to be stupid?

 

[Arjen]

Funny, people use this same argument when the topic of sexism comes up. People sometimes do or say things that could be considered sexist. But they don't believe they are sexist because there was no malice intended.

That itself speaks to the -ism being deeply ingrained in culture and society to the point where people feel they can say and do things that may be hurtful or offensive to a group or people, but because they "didn't mean it" that way, they are absolved of their act and shouldn't face consequences.

Weak.

So they are completly the same and should be treated as such? If I say something I have no idea something is offensive I'm still a racist or sexist?

 

[The Faceless Master]

so when HR skips over Kareem Johnson's CV, that's just a generalization, not really racism... right?

 

[HK-47]

In general, I think white people associate "racist" with Klan hoods, with neo-Nazis, with lynchings, with explicit "Whites Only" signs, with legal (not de facto) segregation; the signs and symbols of hatred and malice.

So, we often fail to recognize things that don't involve "hatred," but do involve assertions of group racial superiority (whether that's moral, cultural, ethical, initiative, mental, etc.) used to explain disparities in education, criminalization, higher education, wealth, patterns of segregation, and so forth, as racist.

Those discussions also dont devolve as easily into calling someone a racist though. Its hard to blame systemic racism on one person and it harder to feel personally attack when its brought up.

Of course those discussions also allow for a lot of dancing around pretending to be less prejudiced than you really are.

 

[Doctor Decimate]

Some people are hard-wired to get upset at anything they perceive to be an insult, no matter what it is or if it's untrue.

 

[SGRU]

How the flying fuck did that happen?

Racists are stupid, thus they make stupid things.

 

[homegrowndub]

That's pretty much it. The tendence of Americans to see racism and racists everywhere is perplexing to the point of self-parody, and attributing yourself a higher moral ground by mere virtue of language use or or symbolic gestures is incredibly sanctimonious.

Couldn't have put it better myself.

 

[EscoBlades]

So they are completly the same and should be treated as such? If I say something I have no idea something is offensive I'm still a racist or sexist?

If you double down to defend that position when it is pointed out to you that what you've said is problematic, then I'm inclined to view you as that thing you don't want to be labelled as.

 

[Zukuu]

Now read what you said back to yourself and see what sense it makes.

"It weakens the impact it has" - Yea...why would black people want to try to take away the power in that word of all words.

"It should have died a long time ago" - Because racists would have stopped using it?

I think it wouldn't be used as "casual" racist term much, if it wouldn't be so prevalent in our society. I mean, it actually 'SPREADS'. The term wouldn't be widely known wouldn't it be for all the rap songs, movies and common language you get to hear from the US in other parts of the world. e.g. Europe and even Asia. Most people there also don't attach any seriousness behind it due to that. The historical meaning was lost long ago.

 

[HK-47]

The historical meaning is alive and well. Its just we have tried to bury it like all the overt racist things in favor of the subtextual or systemic. Out of sight, out of mind.

 

[EscoBlades]

There is nothing casual about racism...

I think it wouldn't be used as "casual" racist term much, if it wouldn't be so prevalent in our society. I mean, it actually 'SPREADS'. The term wouldn't be widely known wouldn't it be for all the rap songs, movies and common language you get to hear from the US in other parts of the world. e.g. Europe and even Asia. Most people there also don't attach any seriousness behind it due to that. The historical meaning was lost long ago.

Must be tiring performing all that mental gymnastics huh?

 

[Dude Abides]

Do people choose to be stupid?

I don't see why that matters. OP is asking why people get mad when you call them a derogatory name rather than thoughtfully considering whether they are in fact what you called them. That strikes me as a ridiculous question for anyone who's ever interacted with another human being.

 

[Omegasquash]

"This is America, and I can say what I want! You can't say that about me you (insert racial slur/stereotype here)!"

 

[cubicle47b]

If you double down to defend that position when it is pointed out to you that what you've said is problematic, then I'm inclined to view you as that thing you don't want to be labelled as.

I don't think a person's immediate reaction to being called out is always a good indication of what they're like. People tend to immediately become defensive when called out. You have to give them time away from it for reflection.

 

[Who]

Racism: Prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against someone of a different race based on the belief that one's own race is superior.

The key part is whether or not the individual believes that an entire race is inferior or superior. I say things that the PC crowd and a lot of GAF would consider me a racist but I know I'm not. How? Because I've dated people of all races, had friends of all races and know in my heart of hearts that we all as humans have remarkable intelligence and diversity should be celebrated. I don't think there's anything wrong with noticing/poking fun at cultural differences. It's honest and that's the way I prefer to see things, honestly. Not walking on egg shells about what's politically correct.

I've been robbed plenty of times in my life and they've almost always been black. Am I racist for observing that? Nope. I don't think that the entire black race has a tendency to steal but I do believe that social conditions in which a lot of black people are raised lead to criminal behaviors. I think there most definitely is institutionalized racism and it infuriates me how segregated blacks are to this day in inner cities and ghettos, something must be done.

Let's be honest about what we see though instead of witch hunting racists and being offended at everything.

 

[Zukuu]

There is nothing casual about racism...



Must be tiring performing all that mental gymnastics huh?

You fail to see a point and/or reason. I'm doing fine.

You want to put a KKK member who actively protests against the rights of black people or guys who beat them up, or people who don't hire them because of their skin color on the same level of someone who casually uses a word or says something without belief or as a slip? Fine by me. See your world in black and white if it works for you.

 

[wildfire]

A person being classified to a belief system for expressing said belief is not an attack on character.

Like calling Christians, Christians, is not an attack.

Words with negative connotations are attacks regardless of it being true or not. If you said something dumb you wouldn't be annoyed if someone called you an idiot for it?

Why do people get mad when I call them stupid instead of getting mad at how stupid they are?

How about instead of calling them stupid you ask them if they see a better way to do something and say you would've done something differently?

Saying they are stupid just reveals you don't care much for that person and are trying to help them. Even when you are wrong they won't bother explaining themselves because if you made such a thoughtless statement why should they care about engaging you?

 

[Crocodile]

So they are completely the same and should be treated as such? If I say something I have no idea something is offensive I'm still a racist or sexist?

A) "Ignorance of the law" is never an excuse

B) There are degrees. You can say/do/be mildly racist/sexist/etc. and still be a generally great person (though that mild racism/sexism/etc. still needs to be addressed). It also matters how you respond to criticism. If you legit didn't understand what you may have done/said wrong, listen to someone kind and articulate enough to explain it to you, and you change/apologize then you're fine. If you double down or try to do back-flips to justify yourself then we might have a problem.

 

[ISOM]

I don't think a person's immediate reaction to being called out is always a good indication of what they're like. People tend to immediately become defensive when called out. You have to give them time away from it for reflection.

How many people do actually change their views when given time to reflect? I feel like it's a very small number.

 

[Red Mage]

Is it really that shocking that someone would be insulted by the term racist? It's not a position someone wants to find themselves in.

Most people don't see themselves as racists even if they are saying racist things. It's best not to start off with a direct attack and instead see if there is an opportunity to help the person see that their point of view may be wrong. Show them why they are wrong. Sometimes this may work, sometimes you're going to end up dealing with a stubborn and ignorant person. In all situations it's best to at least try to work towards change before calling someone a racist and walking away. Once that person is in a defensive position it's going to be difficult or impossible to help educate them.

I view racism as a disease. It's a cancer. When you find cancer you don't just point at it and say "yup, that's cancer", you attempt to correct it or remove it. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't.

It's a pejorative term, an insult. It's an attack on the person's character, because clearly if something you do it considered racist you are a racist in every part of your life, we don't make distinctions and it carries a connotation that you can't change. This makes people defensive. Maybe they made an innocent mistake, maybe they're a grand wizard in the KKK. Does change the effect of their actions? I'd argue it doesn't. I think the opposite problem is true, we spend a lot of time trying to say "yup, that's racist" and then arguing about it and then inserting the "diet racist" gif. This is not useful in any way, a red herring in a pursuit of a better world. Note that some of the most egregious examples of institutional racism don't come from people labeled racists, they come from aggregates of individual ignorance and socialization regarding race.

I think what is most effective is if you absolutely must label things with these loaded words, then label the actions. "That statement is racist," "That display was racist." Really though I think that too is unnecessary. Neither people or things live up to the Platonic ideals of labels. Rather, let's speak from personal feeling, "This offends me," "that statement comes from a place of ignorance, here's why." Then maybe the person is less likely to pull inward and more likely to listen. That is ultimately what you want, not a driveby shaming but to teach and make it better. Of course the most entrenched can't be reasoned with, I still don't think it's effective to attack their character but maybe it's a lost enough cause that it doesn't matter and it just makes you feel better.

These two, in a nutshell. I have an elderly relative who was/is racist. They never considered themselves racist, even though they used the N-word. According to them, there's "white Ns and black Ns." (e_e)

Anyhow, I've been arguing their behavior rather than telling them they're racist, and they're actually changing. Compare this to my sister's response, which was to call them racist and walk away/hang up on them, which only upset them and made them double down that what they were saying wasn't racist. Sure, she felt morally superior, but it didn't help the situation and, in a way, made it worse.

 

[Atraveller]

I don't see why that matters. OP is asking why people get mad when you call them a derogatory name rather than thoughtfully considering whether they are in fact what you called them. That strikes me as a ridiculous question for anyone who's ever interacted with another human being.

Words with negative connotations are attacks regardless of it being true or not. If you said something dumb you wouldn't be annoyed if someone called you an idiot for it?

How about instead of calling them stupid you ask them if they see a better way to do something and say you would've done something differently?

Belief is a choice, being stupid is not. Racism is racism, idiocy is purely subjective.

 

[HK-47]

How many people do actually change their views when given time to reflect? I feel like it's a very small number.

Thats like the only way people change their views. They have to feel like they came to the new conclusion themselves.

And it probably is very small. Humans do not change deeply held views easily. There is no switch.

 

[EscoBlades]

You fail to see a point and/or reason. I'm doing fine.

You want to put a KKK member who actively protests against the rights of black people or guys who beat them up, or people who don't hire them because of their skin color on the same level of someone who casually uses a word or says something without belief or as a slip? Fine by me. See your world in black and white if it works for you.

LOL, okay. Hopefully you learn to read and actually take in some of the attempts at education directed to you in this thread. I lack the patience to watch people stay willfully ignorant while going around in circles with their fingers in their ears.

Good day.

 

[HK-47]

Belief is a choice, being stupid is not. Racism is racism, idiocy is purely subjective.

I feel like you are missing the point.

 

[Cyber Caesar]

Why do people get mad when I call them stupid instead of getting mad at how stupid they are?

People can know things are wrong and still engage in wrong behavior just for kicks and giggles. Humans can unfortunately take pleasure in the suffering of others.

 

[ISOM]

Thats like the only way people change their views. They have to feel like they came to the new conclusion themselves.

And it probably is very small. Humans do not change deeply held views easily. There is no switch.

No humans don't only change their views just with self reflection. Most of the time they have to be challenged and shown their views are vile and ignorant because they are often not aware of how deeply affecting it can be or they are aware and they don't care.

 

[Dude Abides]

Belief is a choice, being stupid is not. Racism is racism, idiocy is purely subjective.

That isn't really relevant to the point. I'll simplify: people don't like being called names and that shouldn't surprise OP.

 

[The Elite]

so when HR skips over Kareem Johnson's CV, that's just a generalization, not really racism... right?

I'd ask for a little more evidence before accusing HR of being racist. Maybe he used Comic Sans.

I was once accused of being racist because I wouldn't remove a late charge off of a black couple's account. They even admitted that the late charge was legit but they insinuated that I would have taken it off of a white person's account.

That made my blood boil.

I think racist is a heavy label and if you're going to accuse someone of it you better damn well have good reason to do so and evidence to back it up.

So no, I'm not going to call HR racist because Kareem didn't get an interview. But I'm definitely going to consider their hiring practices if they have a history of hiring only white people. At some point the idea that the white person was the best person for the job becomes obvious bullshit.

 

[Arizato]

I've been noticing this over the past few weeks on social media, on GAF, Reddit and various parts of the internet.

People go on a rant about "black people always playing the race card!" or "Blacks commit most of the crimes, of course they'll be profiled more, #commonsense" or any other bullshit rationalization and denial of systemic racism.

But, the moment you call them a "racist", THAT is when they get upset.

Like really?

You're literally more upset about the LABEL of being a racist, rather than checking your racist viewpoints and positions?

How the flying fuck did that happen?

Yup. I can really relate to this. This is a really big problem in Sweden from my point of view. There are so many people over the years that I have cut my ties with because they say racist stuff, and when I call the out on it they say stuff like this: "I am a patriot! I just want our fine swedish culture to remain the way it is! What is racist with that?"

I am so glad I have stopped talking to people like that, because when I see mutual friends commenting on their things on Facebook they have shared openly racist stuff, all the while denying the fact that they are racists.


What the hell does patriotism have to do with racism? Nothing!

 

[Eidan]

In general, I think white people associate "racist" with Klan hoods, with neo-Nazis, with lynchings, with explicit "Whites Only" signs, with legal (not de facto) segregation; the signs and symbols of hatred and malice.

So, we often fail to recognize things that don't involve "hatred," but do involve assertions of group racial superiority (whether that's moral, cultural, ethical, initiative, mental, etc.) used to explain disparities in education, criminalization, higher education, wealth, patterns of segregation, and so forth, as racist.

Racism...without racists...hmmmmm

 

[Zukuu]

LOL, okay. Hopefully you learn to read and actually take in some of the attempts at education directed to you in this thread. I lack the patience to watch people stay willfully ignorant while going around in circles with their fingers in their ears.

Good day.

Funny, you haven't said a single thing that makes a point other than stating your own belief:

"Or the ones that try and double down on their shitty views with faux-academic arguments. The sort you usually see on GAF."

That's the way to go. Show them tiger.

 

[HK-47]

People can know things are wrong and still engage in wrong behavior just for kicks and giggles. Humans can unfortunately take pleasure in the suffering of others.

I doubt those are the people who actually become defensive when called out. They might feint it in order to disguise themselves or prolong their outing.

 

[Mumei]

So they are completly the same and should be treated as such? If I say something I have no idea something is offensive I'm still a racist or sexist?

It makes you racist in the same way that telling a lie makes you a liar. Which is to say, if someone catches you in a lie, there's a chance they're going to say that you're a liar. Whether that label becomes a temporary thing, a description of what you were doing in the moment ('saying something racist'; 'telling a lie') or whether that label becomes a description of who you are at heart probably depends on whether you keep saying racist things and how attached you are to racist attitudes.

Spoiler

I've never been a fan of the phrasing "a racist." I've never called someone "a racist"; I prefer "a racist person," or "He is racist." Am I the only one who is weird like this?

Racism...without racists...hmmmmm

You forgot to plug the book!

 

[Zen_Arcade]

Strangely enough in four decades on Earth I've yet to encounter this rare breed of man who says racist and ignorant things without being racist and ignorant. It's good to know they exist.

I take it you've never seen stand up comedy.

 

[Atraveller]

I feel like you are missing the point.

That isn't really relevant to the point. I'll simplify: people don't like being called names and that shouldn't surprise OP.

Calling a Nazi, a Nazi, shouldn't offend anyone, because that's what the person chose to be. Same with racists.

 

[cubicle47b]

How many people do actually change their views when given time to reflect? I feel like it's a very small number.

I think it's actually a very high number, but views don't necessarily shift a lot (or to a position we like) and it takes a long time. The 'almost politically correct redneck' meme might actually be a good example. I look back at my own history and see a pretty serious evolution in how I think about race and sex and what is acceptable and I'm sure many people here can do the same.

 

[HK-47]

No humans don't only change their views just with self reflection. Most of the time they have to be challenged and shown their views are vile and ignorant because they are often not aware of how deeply affecting it can be or they are aware and they don't care.

Of course they have to be challenged. Thats what initiates the self reflection.

 

[Omegasquash]

You want to put a KKK member who actively protests against the rights of black people or guys who beat them up, or people who don't hire them because of their skin color on the same level of someone who casually uses a word or says something without belief or as a slip? Fine by me. See your world in black and white if it works for you.

I used to think like you, primarily because of the way that my parents acted, the things they told me, and by seeing the actions of other "friends"/family members/community members.

Please take a moment and understand that a word, or a seemingly meaningless action, or even a thought in the back of your head is racist if it has anything to do with race. Scale levels of racism all you like, but don't pretend that either is not cancerous. Until we accept that any and all types of racism need to be called out and addressed, that ugly little thing in the back of the head can and often will grow. At the very least the roots will run deeper, making change that much harder. And when you don't change, you pass it along in your actions and the things you say.

It very much IS an issue of seeing it as one or the other. Either you are not, or you are. I think it's a conscious choice, like smoking or something. You have to work at it, you have to address it and you have to overcome it personally to make an impact on yourself and others.

Stop and think, please. You are in a good place to make a change if you listen to what others are saying.

 

[HK-47]

It makes you racist in the same way that telling a lie makes you a liar. Which is to say, if someone catches you in a lie, there's a chance they're going to say that you're a liar. Whether that label becomes a temporary thing, a description of what you were doing in the moment ('saying something racist'; 'telling a lie') or whether that label becomes a description of who you are at heart probably depends on whether you keep saying racist things and how attached you are to racist attitudes.

Spoiler

I've never been a fan of the phrasing "a racist." I've never called someone "a racist"; I prefer "a racist person," or "He is racist." Am I the only one who is weird like this?

You forgot to plug the book!

Im not sure what the difference is in your spoilered text.

 

[Zukuu]

Spoiler

I've never been a fan of the phrasing "a racist." I've never called someone "a racist"; I prefer "a racist person," or "He is racist." Am I the only one who is weird like this?

You're not. I feel there is a huge difference between them and I think it makes sense to use them for different persons and occasions.

 

[Byakuya769]

Pretty obvious. There is no punishment for being a racist. There is punishment for being labeled one.

Damn. I like this.

 

[xenist]

I take it you've never seen stand up comedy.

Yes. The people I'm referring to are stand up comedians because context means nothing.

And yes. This post is as sarcastic as my first one.

 

[Crocodile]

Funny, you haven't said a single thing that makes a point other than stating your own belief:

That's the way to go. Show them tiger.

Esco never saw the world in Black & White, you put that idea out there. Two things can both be bad and fall under the same umbrella without being equally bad. The Flu and AIDS are both sicknesses caused by viruses. One is much worse than the other but they are both bad.

 

[Who]

I used to think like you, primarily because of the way that my parents acted, the things they told me, and by seeing the actions of other "friends"/family members/community members.

Please take a moment and understand that a word, or a seemingly meaningless action, or even a thought in the back of your head is racist if it has anything to do with race. Scale levels of racism all you like, but don't pretend that either is not cancerous. Until we accept that any and all types of racism need to be called out and addressed, that ugly little thing in the back of the head can and often will grow. At the very least the roots will run deeper, making change that much harder. And when you don't change, you pass it along in your actions and the things you say.

It very much IS an issue of seeing it as one or the other. Either you are not, or you are. I think it's a conscious choice, like smoking or something. You have to work at it, you have to address it and you have to overcome it personally to make an impact on yourself and others.

Stop and think, please. You are in a good place to make a change if you listen to what others are saying.

Uh no. Sorry if I ruin any moral superiority which you might feel. Racism is such a heavy ugly term. Acting like everyone is the same and there are no social conditions that cause for different behaviors and tendencies is ignorant and will move the conversation nowhere.

 

[BGBW]

Please take a moment and understand that a word, or a seemingly meaningless action, or even a thought in the back of your head is racist if it has anything to do with race.

That's a bit broad don't you think?

 

[MrBadger]

Because people might not realise what they're saying is racist, and what they're saying might not even be racist from their point of view. Slapping labels on people instead of countering their claims is bound to annoy them.