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[dgrdsv]

Benchmark shots from yesterday's PCPer stream: More Vega Frontier Edition Performance Numbers Surface

Weaker than 1080 pretty much everywhere but there's a weird result in FO4 in 1440p:

If it's an indication of how things can be then there's still hope for good improvements in future drivers.

 

[RootCause]

is vega 11 meant to replace polaris going forward? or is it aimed at another market?

 

[napata]

Benchmark shots from yesterday's PCPer stream: More Vega Frontier Edition Performance Numbers Surface

Weaker than 1080 pretty much everywhere but there's a weird result in FO4 in 1440p:


If it's an indication of how things can be then there's still hope for good improvements in future drivers.

That is a weird result because in the same game at 4k it falls behind the 1080. I think even the streamer said he thought it was an error.

is vega 11 meant to replace polaris going forward? or is it aimed at another market?

No, it's meant to be their high end chip. Polaris is their mid tier chip. They're supposed to coexist. I'm pretty sure AMD initially planned to release Vega closer to Polaris.

 

[ISee]

Benchmark shots from yesterday's PCPer stream: More Vega Frontier Edition Performance Numbers Surface

Weaker than 1080 pretty much everywhere but there's a weird result in FO4 in 1440p:



If it's an indication of how things can be then there's still hope for good improvements in future drivers.

As already mentioned in my summary, PCPer is going to redo the FO4 1440p benchmark today because at 4k the Vega FE falls behind a 1080. Maybe the settings weren't where they needed to be.

 

[RootCause]

That is a weird result because in the same game at 4k it falls behind the 1080. I think even the streamer said he thought it was an error.



No, it's meant to be their high end chip. Polaris is their mid tier chip. They're supposed to coexist. I'm pretty sure AMD initially planned to release Vega closer to Polaris.

So Vega 10/11 are for the higher end chips, and Polaris for mid to low end chips?

 

[amstradcpc]

If Vega is finally a failure as it seems Sony and MS should jump ships for next gen and go with Nvidia.There is 100 watts of efficiency difference between the two and with 7nm it will be worse.Huge for a closed console.

 

[Rains]

Not looking good gonna wait tho for the gaming version before i pass judgement pricing should be intreasting also would a 750 watt power supply be enought for this

 

[Kambing]

Complete disappointment if gaming VEGA performs at this level. The only potential saving grace would be if it were priced well below a 1070 and closer to 1060... I mean shit, given all the delays, timing of release compared to Nvidia and what now appears to be a crap performer for cryptocurrency -- what is the positive angle? This is before the temps and load too!

For as much as Nvidia likes to price gouge like Intel, at least their products consistently deliver large performance increases between releases. I feel as though AMD Ryzen had a much easier time catching up to Intel because each release advanced at a much slower pace than Nvidia's releases.

 

[Seronei]

Not looking good gonna wait tho for the gaming version before i pass judgement pricing should be intreasting also would a 750 watt power supply be enought for this

Easily, realistically you don't even "need" more than a good 500w unless you have X99/X299 or presumably threadripper. But I'd aim for 600w+ if you're buying a new PSU for it, so you'd at least you have some headroom and better efficiency.

 

[Ty4on]

Vega is supposed to be a completely new architecture, according to AMD PR so far.

All new is PR speak for slightly reworked.

Can't remember the last time an "all new" gaming engine wasn't based on the old one.

 

[Proelite]

Man, AMD just shat the bed. All these console contracts must have diverted resources based on baseless speculation.

Maybe they should give up the high end discrete market and focus on high-end SOCs and APUs.

 

[hanspampel]

500mm² chip can't beat a 350mm² chip?
Well at least ryzen is good.

I will stay AMD CPU and Nvidia GPU forever

 

[Papacheeks]

Man, AMD just shat the bed. All these console contracts must have diverted resources based on baseless speculation.

Maybe they should give up the high end discrete market and focus on high-end SOCs and APUs.

Thing is their CPU line is doing great. And if their laptop versions on ryzen and vega do well they won't be changing anytime soon.

 

[PFD]

Whatever happened to tile-based rasterization and the huge gains it would give? Did they forget to flip a switch?

 

[Coulomb_Barrier]

If Vega is finally a failure as it seems Sony and MS should jump ships for next gen and go with Nvidia.There is 100 watts of efficiency difference between the two and with 7nm it will be worse.Huge for a closed console.

Not gonna happen. Nvidia and Intel combo would be twice as expensive for either Sony or MS. In any case, AMD's Ryzen APUs are going to be class leading.

 

[Autumn Wind]

Vega is supposed to be for the Pro and high end gamer market. A pro version of Vega, the Frontier Edition, will launch next tuesday. The RX Vega consumer cards to compete with the 1070 and 1080 will supposedly be launched at SIGGRAPH at the end of July.

The Polaris based RX 500 series will remain AMD's low to mid range cards.

Okay so based on that, I would expect Polaris to be in the next iMac also? With HBM2 or GDDR5? Anything can change yes and I feel like I have it but I am not entirely sure and almost want to predict the future.

 

[ISee]

PCPer.com published their review/benchmarks btw


New Fallout 4 1440p benchmarks look a bit different than the ones from yesterday.

 

[Tacklemacain]

Whatever happened to tile-based rasterization and the huge gains it would give? Did they forget to flip a switch?

It looks like the TBR is not activ right now, for whatever reason.

 

[Delusibeta]

PCPer.com published their review/benchmarks btw

Worth clicking, since it immediately dismantles pretty much every excuse for this performance. This is probably representative of the performance of the gaming Vega cards. I hope that the RRP is below US $500, then (and that the bitcoin miners realise that buying all of the graphics cards is burning money at this point).

 

[Irobot82]

The comments on the article said they found out the Tile Based Rasterizer wasn't working or turned on, will that make a difference?

 

[fresquito]

Can anybody tell me whether there will be a Vega model to compete against the 1060 6GB? I'm holding on buying one before Vegas are released and I don't know if it is worth it.

 

[Xyphie]

Can anybody tell me whether there will be a Vega model to compete against the 1060 6GB? I'm holding on buying one before Vegas are released and I don't know if it is worth it.

Not with this chip. Maybe later when Vega 11-based products come out.

 

[fresquito]

Not with this chip. Maybe later when Vega 11-based products come out.

Thanks. Any ETA for those?

 

[Xyphie]

Thanks. Any ETA for those?

End of the year or 2018 probably.

 

[fresquito]

End of the year or 2018 probably.

Thanks again. Seems like 1060 will be, then.

 

[ShadowKingpin]

I'll nab a 1050Ti to last until Volta. I was really rooting for you, AMD....

 

[Infinite Xero]

Can anybody tell me whether there will be a Vega model to compete against the 1060 6GB? I'm holding on buying one before Vegas are released and I don't know if it is worth it.

Any reason why you're looking for specifically a Vega model and not Polaris with either the RX 480 or 580? Those are made to compete with the 1060 6GB.

 

[fresquito]

Any reason why you're looking for specifically a Vega model and not Polaris with either the RX 480 or 580? Those are made to compete with the 1060 6GB.

I don't have the perception they are better options than the 1060.

 

[napata]

I don't have the perception they are better options than the 1060.

A 580 is on average faster than a 1060, atleast in AAA multiplats. In non-AAA games the 1060 is indeed better but Vega will be a bad buy for these games as well so it all depends on which games you're looking to play. But it doesn't really matter atm because you can't buy a 480/580 at a decent price anyway with the mining craze. Actually when I think about it you might not even be able to buy a 1060 at a decent price.

 

[iavi]

Horribly disapointing.

At least Ryzen is good

Looks like I'm going Ryzen/Nvidia for my next build

 

[fresquito]

A 580 is on average faster than a 1060, atleast in AAA multiplats. In non-AAA games the 1060 is indeed better but Vega will be a bad buy for these games as well so it all depends on which games you're looking to play. But it doesn't really matter atm because you can't buy a 480/580 at a decent price anyway with the mining craze.

Yeah, by options I was including all considerations. Thanks for the reply, though.

 

[Kayant]

http://www.gamersnexus.net/news-pc/2972-amd-vega-frontier-edition-tear-down-die-size-and-more

Video - https://youtube.com/watch?v=txHJZdPadG0

 

[Izuna]

Why isn't Linus talking about this

 

[icecold1983]

that pcper review. what a disaster. noticeably behind a 1080

 

[Beautiful Ninja]

Why isn't Linus talking about this

Linus likely doesn't have one. There were no review samples of the Vega FE at all, those who have one and have reviewed it bought it themselves and got them shipped overnight.

 

[FingerBang]

A 580 is on average faster than a 1060, atleast in AAA multiplats. In non-AAA games the 1060 is indeed better but Vega will be a bad buy for these games as well so it all depends on which games you're looking to play. But it doesn't really matter atm because you can't buy a 480/580 at a decent price anyway with the mining craze. Actually when I think about it you might not even be able to buy a 1060 at a decent price.

I bought a 1060 one month ago and it was pretty much 100$ cheaper than the cheapest RX580, AMD cards are not even an option at the moment.

...guess we're all waiting for Volta, friends!

 

[dgrdsv]

is vega 11 meant to replace polaris going forward? or is it aimed at another market?

Vega 11 is a cheaper Vega variant which is rumored to use just one HBM stack. It remains to be seen if it will even be used in retail products or of it's just a GPU made for APUs and the rumored Intel+AMD combo APU for Apple.

As already mentioned in my summary, PCPer is going to redo the FO4 1440p benchmark today because at 4k the Vega FE falls behind a 1080. Maybe the settings weren't where they needed to be.

Yeah, just saw the PCPer article and they didn't confirm it so it was some mistake on their part most likely. Oh well, I was saying that GCN is on it's last legs for some time now but this is just sad.

Whatever happened to tile-based rasterization and the huge gains it would give? Did they forget to flip a switch?

The comments on the article said they found out the Tile Based Rasterizer wasn't working or turned on, will that make a difference?

It's entirely possible that they weren't able to make it work as this requires some rather extensive driver magic and we all know how bad AMD is with drivers.

That being said though, it's also worth noting that TBIM in the form which is used in Maxwell and Pascal saves bandwidth and some power - and while power savings can help Vega to perform better I have some doubts about it being bandwidth limited with it's HBM2 even without TBIM active. So maybe it is disabled because it doesn't really help an HBM2 chip.

http://www.gamersnexus.net/news-pc/2972-amd-vega-frontier-edition-tear-down-die-size-and-more

Video - https://youtube.com/watch?v=txHJZdPadG0

So about 525mm^2, roughly 50mm^2 larger than GP102 with lower than 314mm^2 GP104 performance. Boy I hope that Navi will actually be a new architecture...

 

[Unknown Soldier]

The comments on the article said they found out the Tile Based Rasterizer wasn't working or turned on, will that make a difference?

TBR is a technique used to conserve memory bandwidth. Nvidia is still using GDDR5 and GDDR5X where that matters. The whole point of HBM is to scale bandwidth past what GDDR is capable of.

 

[Izuna]

Linus likely doesn't have one. There were no review samples of the Vega FE at all, those who have one and have reviewed it bought it themselves and got them shipped overnight.

I guess it would make sense if they had a video lined up, so no need to talk about other people's benches just yet

 

[Infinite Xero]

I don't have the perception they are better options than the 1060.

Not factoring in the current pricing spike, the RX 580 seems either comparable or better than the 1060 6GB based on this review. But actually factoring in the pricing situation, I can understand why you would go with a 1060.

 

[icecold1983]

Not factoring in the current pricing spike, the RX 580 seems either comparable or better than the 1060 6GB based on this review. But actually factoring in the pricing situation, I can understand why you would go with a 1060.

the 580 is faster but mining has ruined the prices

https://www.techspot.com/review/1393-radeon-rx-580-vs-geforce-gtx-1060/

 

[Dmax3901]

Is there any way of knowing how long this mining price hike on 1070s is gonna last? I've been waiting for Vega cause I have a freesync monitor but now I'm getting fed up.

 

[ZOONAMI]

How the fuck is Vega apparently not really even an improvement on Fury?

 

[ThoseDeafMutes]

How the fuck is Vega apparently not really even an improvement on Fury?

I do think that with improved drivers and whatnot it won't look quite as crap as it does currently, but as far as historical precedent, it's not totally unknown to have a new generation of something dramatically underwhelm. It's complicated work and sometimes the real world results aren't what you imagined you'd get at the drawing board stage. Even if they only get small improvements for the commercial product, it still won't be as bad of a brick wall as the CPU side of AMD had in 2011-2016.

With that said, if Vega is a genuine fuckup and Volta is a success, then they're going to be in for a rough time.

 

[dgrdsv]

Is there any way of knowing how long this mining price hike on 1070s is gonna last? I've been waiting for Vega cause I have a freesync monitor but now I'm getting fed up.

Prices are going down already and availability increasing. I think that with both NV and AMD board vendors putting out special mining cards this will happen pretty soon.

How the fuck is Vega apparently not really even an improvement on Fury?

It's an improvement alright but there's the puzzling lack of anything resembling gains from architectural update - which would mean that Vega is actually behind Polaris when compared to GCN3. I smell that there's a lot to be gained with better drivers (note that this isn't +50% so competing with 1080Ti is out of the question but they'll probably be able to reach 1080's performance levels eventually).

I do think that with improved drivers and whatnot it won't look quite as crap as it does currently, but as far as historical precedent, it's not totally unknown to have a new generation of something dramatically underwhelm. It's complicated work and sometimes the real world results aren't what you imagined you'd get at the drawing board stage. Even if they only get small improvements for the commercial product, it still won't be as bad of a brick wall as the CPU side of AMD had in 2011-2016.

With that said, if Vega is a genuine fuckup and Volta is a success, then they're going to be in for a rough time.

I don't think that it will be any worse for AMD in GPU space even with such Vega than it was since Pascal launch. I mean, it's been 13 months since they basically aren't competing with anything higher than GTX 1060.

And I'm not so sure anymore that we'll see Volta in GeForces anytime soon.

 

[FingerBang]

How the fuck is Vega apparently not really even an improvement on Fury?

Well, it is faster than a Fury, but it should be faster.

I am not here defending AMD, but the fact that RX Vega launches later this month probably means the gaming drivers aren't ready. I don't expect it to beat a 1080ti or a Titan xp, but where are the 13 AMDTFlops we were promised?

After all it trades blows with Titan when it comes to professional use (that's what I read, I don't really know much about it).

 

[the_darkness]

Everyone needs to calm the hell down until the gaming cards/drivers are actually released.

 

[mario_O]

very very disappointing. these cards would've made sense if released last year: between a GTX1070-1080 makes sense in 2016. releasing them this year is kinda embarrassing.

 

[Leonidas]

I regret not buying a 1080 or 1080 Ti a week or so ago when there were good deals, now everything is at or over MSRP.

I guess there is still some hope that it could be priced accordingly, though with 1070-1080 performance with a much higher power draw I can't see myself spending anything over $399 for this...

 

[icecold1983]

Well, it is faster than a Fury, but it should be faster.

I am not here defending AMD, but the fact that RX Vega launches later this month probably means the gaming drivers aren't ready. I don't expect it to beat a 1080ti or a Titan xp, but where are the 13 AMDTFlops we were promised?

After all it trades blows with Titan when it comes to professional use (that's what I read, I don't really know much about it).

nvidia purposely gimps non quadro cards via drivers to perform worse in workstation apps. so the benchmark comparisons, while valid from a pricing standpoint, are not from a hardware capability standpoint