Support NeoGAF

[Teknoman]

My only fear is that they go for the excessively dramatic orchestral route that most games fall into. Definitely hope we get some kick-ass guitar and industrial riffs like the old days.

I thought D3 was a really interesting attempt at using the environment to create a kind of ambient beat and tempo. It didn't always work, but there were times when I was really impressed by it's direction. Doom 3 suffered ultimately because it's not what people expected, not because it was a bad game.

I'd be ok if the music sounded similar to what was used in the most recent trailer.

 

[jett]

From what I've heard in gameplay demos the music doesn't seem to be anything out of the ordinary.

 

[angular graphics]

Which reminds me I was very disappointed with the music in DNF. Sure there were other more problematic aspects of the game but why the hell was the music that uninteresting? There are no valid excuses really...

 

[kittoo]

If they were more interesting they wouldn't be so bad. But the scripting during those sequences is poor, and there is little to do within them except move forward. The boat has a helicopter fight and a lot of bland-looking scenery, with a few occasional switches to hit to move forward. The buggy sequence was a bit better with the antlion threat, but it went on for too damn long.

I appreciated the attempt at creating a seamless world, but I thought it was poorly executed.

I don't think Half Life 2 ever nailed pacing until episode 2.

I absolutely loved the buggy sections. The atmosphere was amazing and it was treat to be so immersed in it. Whenever I recall HL2, those are the sections that I recall most. The bridge, the empty home out in nowhere, the moat etc. Damn, I want to play it again.

 

[Akia]

I feel really bad for Gearbox and Borderlands 2 next year. Consumer standards for post-apocalyptic wasteland shooters are most likely going to be raised higher than they can achieve with a two year incremental update.

 

[kittoo]

I always get annoyed when people say a game like HL2 is only 8 hours. It boggles my mind. I could get 8 hours out of a game like Vanquish on my first play through and that's widely considered a 4-6 hour game by forum people. What are you people doing that you rush through these games so fast? Did these same people finish Bioshock in 7 hours? Or do people just like to exaggerate?

I tend to look at and enjoy the environments, the work the artists do, the effects in areas etc. it seems like everyone who says they beat them that quickly just run through the missions as effectively as possible one after another and beat it in one sitting. That really sucks if that's the case. I don't remember how long HL2 took for me but it was likely a 15 hour game at least, especially considering Episode Two took 6-7. You guys should relish your experiences more, you wait years for an awesome game don't cheap it out by trying to get to the end as quick as possible.

Exactly my thoughts bro. Even this day HL2 takes about 12 hours for me to finish.

 

[Stallion Free]

Exactly my thoughts bro. Even this day HL2 takes about 12 hours for me to finish.

I think some people view games as a barrier to overcome rather than an experience to savor.

 

[commedieu]

I think some people view games as a barrier to overcome rather than an experience to savor.

^This. Its weird, but everyone enjoys games differently. I remember showing my friend Hitman for the first time, I played stealth style. He just mowed everyone down in about 15 minutes, and escaped. We got into an argument because that wasn't the way I thought he should play it, or that its supposed to be played.

Its like playing a fighting game and only doing a low kick the entire time to win. I personally can't see the fun in it, but if you have a good time rushing/cutting off cut scenes, i mean thats the point of the game right? Fun, its in the eye of the beholder.

 

[DarkChild]

Judging by this thread,15 fps is the future. But I could swear that every time a thread like "30fps vs 60fps" pops out GAF goes crazy about latter but when they find out there is no high quality post processing or tons of dynamic light sources they start to pull crap like in this thread.

 

[Madrical]

I think some people view games as a barrier to overcome rather than an experience to savor.

Nailed it. I find that if I'm rushing through a game, I'm not enjoying it as much as I should. inFamous 2 is a good example; the first one I savoured and loved it both times I played through. The second one I've been rushing through as much as possible per sitting, and I still haven't finished.

It's crazy the amount of hate Rage is getting before release, it seems like it's the new 'cool to hate' game. I personally can't wait, it's definitely my most hyped FPS in a long while (HL3 is beyond hype) and the first FPS I will be buying day one since.. Killzone 2.

 

[Corky]

I find it funny how modded DOOM 3 now looks better than RAGE in 2011.

At first I was going to be all "hmph I beg to differ" but then I watched the video...

God damn that looks pretty amazing, and that's a 7 year old modded game. I miss those days when games didn't come out gimped straight out the gate, instead they had amazing scalability upwards.

 

[StuBurns]

Judging by this thread,15 fps is the future. But I could swear that every time a thread like "30fps vs 60fps" pops out GAF goes crazy about latter but when they find out there is no high quality post processing or tons of dynamic light sources they start to pull crap like in this thread.

How many people have shown a preference to lower framerates in this thread? I know of one.

 

[Number45]

I think some people view games as a barrier to overcome rather than an experience to savor.

I will openly admit to being guilty of this at times, but it's usually only if a game hasn't really grabbed me. Personally, Bioshock took me the best part of 20 hours and my first play through of HL2 was easily 15 hours - I like exploring every nook and cranny to see what I can find.

I can also attribute some of that time to being a pussy though. Ravenholme and the early sections of Bioshock fuck me up, and I tend to be extra careful when I'm in situations like that.

 

[DarkChild]

How many people have shown a preference to lower framerates in this thread? I know of one.

I'm talking about console games,with PC its pretty likely you will hit 60fps even with games like Crysis 1. I know people go crazy over 60fps and than when game like COD gets to release they start to yap about ugly graphics.Now RAGE is 60fps and people yap about lack of things like high quality post processing,destruction and stuff.Sorry,but the way things work is,you have twice higher frame rate,you have twice less resources to work with.And developers often complain they can't do everything they want at 33ms,imagine them using only 16ms and pushing same amount of pixels on screen(720p frame buffer).

 

[Mikeside]

I feel really bad for Gearbox and Borderlands 2 next year. Consumer standards for post-apocalyptic wasteland shooters are most likely going to be raised higher than they can achieve with a two year incremental update.

I dunno, as good as RAGE is looking (and will almost definitely be), I have a good feeling about Borderlands 2 - I think it's going to do very well.

 

[zoukka]

goddamn is the steam ad so ugly for this game. One would think that a dev cycle this long, would at least ensure the promo material is sound.

 

[StuBurns]

I'm talking about console games,with PC its pretty likely you will hit 60fps even with games like Crysis 1. I know people go crazy over 60fps and than when game like COD gets to release they start to yap about ugly graphics.Now RAGE is 60fps and people yap about lack of things like high quality post processing,destruction and stuff.Sorry,but the way things work is,you have twice higher frame rate,you have twice less resources to work with.And developers often complain they can't do everything they want at 33ms,imagine them using only 16ms and pushing same amount of pixels on screen(720p frame buffer).

People are talking about the PC version though. Very little of this discussion has been about Rage as a console game.

I would argue the benefit of 60 on console is less pronounced, it's virtually required on PC to make mouse look feel crisp, but if Rage isn't the best shooter on consoles mechanically, I'll be very surprised.

And Rage has a dynamic framebuffer, let's wait till we have it before we say it's '720p', if it is 99% of the time that's one thing, if it's dropping resolution consistently during combat, that's another.

 

[Limanima]

Remember this game had to be compromised graphically to get 60fps on console. Let me say again how terrible the texture look. It's actually true that HL2 had higher res textures than this game. They have the high resolution textures, but they can't even be bothered to put them on the disc.

I keep seeing people talking about how bad the textures look. Isn't RAGE supposed to use mega-textures and that's the reason the game takes more then 1 DVD?
Isn't the general idea of mega-textures to use high res textures everywhere without any performance hit? This is at least what I read some time ago, there are even videos with Carmack talking about this.
This is actualy the only reason why I have any interest in this game.

 

[Always-honest]

Is the 20GB install for 360 true?

 

[StuBurns]

Is the 20GB install for 360 true?

Yes, 20/21GB Carmack said.

 

[Limanima]

Yes, 20/21GB Carmack said.

This confirms what I was thinking about the mega-textures (I think...).

 

[DarkChild]

People are talking about the PC version though. Very little of this discussion has been about Rage as a console game.

I would argue the benefit of 60 on console is less pronounced, it's virtually required on PC to make mouse look feel crisp, but if Rage isn't the best shooter on consoles mechanically, I'll be very surprised.

And Rage has a dynamic framebuffer, let's wait till we have it before we say it's '720p', if it is 99% of the time that's one thing, if it's dropping resolution consistently during combat, that's another.

It has dynamic frame buffer because Carmack has fetish on no frame dips at 60fps.They could have gone with drops to mid 50fps,but clearly he won't give up on his 60fps.Anyway,he said resolution drops happen very very rarely,and I have no reason not to believe him.

 

[Alexios]

I keep seeing people talking about how bad the textures look. Isn't RAGE supposed to use mega-textures and that's the reason the game takes more then 1 DVD?
Isn't the general idea of mega-textures to use high res textures everywhere without any performance hit? This is at least what I read some time ago, there are even videos with Carmack talking about this.
This is actualy the only reason why I have any interest in this game.

They're using one gigantic streaming texture to paint the whole landscape, so that ideally you have no tiled, repeating patterns (I suppose the megatexture could still be created by patching together tiled patterns if it's too much work). That's the biggest benefit. The resolution of any given visible section is still tied to the systems' capabilities.

Still, the game looks spectacular regardless. So what if it looks spectacular using tricks like baked lightmaps, so what if a lot of the quality is due to the 60 fps, or whatever else? The result is all that matters and the game looks great. The fully dynamic lighting didn't exactly make Crysis 2 look all that much better, most of the levels still had the sun in a particular position, making the processing power taken to do it all in real time, imo, rather wasted. Maybe in an RPG like The Witcher 2 it makes a difference because you stick around long enough (or fast forward the time) to actually see the expanding shadows of the environment around you, but these aren't RPG games and they tend to have their levels set up for a particular time of day and a particular mood in general, not real time conditions.

And those who say the geometry or art style sucks have no idea what they're talking about. If they do, I'd liike some elaboration, at least for the latter since the former is purely subjective (and they're wrong anyway). Like how many triangles is any given character and scene so that they "suck"? What about their textures, how many and what layers are there? It's not like it looks like Doom 3 where you can see corners everywhere making it evident that all the detail is purely due to the normal maps or something. The game looks great with huge open and still detailed environments and the characters are detailed too, and all that with modest requirements.

 

[StuBurns]

This confirms what I was thinking about the mega-textures (I think...).

The megatextures we're getting are considerably lower resolution than a normal texture. They are much larger, and take up a lot more room though. The point is to free up additional RAM so they can push performance higher, and to allow far more freedom in what the artists can do in terms of not having to use highly repeated tile sets.

It has dynamic frame buffer because Carmack has fetish on no frame dips at 60fps.They could have gone with drops to mid 50fps,but clearly he won't give up on his 60fps.Anyway,he said resolution drops happen very very rarely,and I have no reason not to believe him.

Where did he say 'very rarely'?

 

[Always-honest]

Yes, 20/21GB Carmack said.

buhh... i don't have that on my 360 ((((

 

[DarkChild]

Where did he say 'very rarely'?

In one of his tweets if I remember correctly.

 

[StuBurns]

buhh... i don't have that on my 360 ((((

Delete some shit, based on what he said, running from the disc is rough.

EDIT: Oh, a 20GB drive? Well it'll still be okay I imagine.

 

[zoukka]

I keep seeing people talking about how bad the textures look. Isn't RAGE supposed to use mega-textures and that's the reason the game takes more then 1 DVD?
Isn't the general idea of mega-textures to use high res textures everywhere without any performance hit? This is at least what I read some time ago, there are even videos with Carmack talking about this.
This is actualy the only reason why I have any interest in this game.

MegaTexture allows for nice variation in texturing. The amount of detail should depend on the texture filesize and its streaming capabilities.

 

[DarkChild]

I keep seeing people talking about how bad the textures look. Isn't RAGE supposed to use mega-textures and that's the reason the game takes more then 1 DVD?
Isn't the general idea of mega-textures to use high res textures everywhere without any performance hit? This is at least what I read some time ago, there are even videos with Carmack talking about this.
This is actualy the only reason why I have any interest in this game.

MT means you place one gigantic texture over terrain and than your artists can add as much of detail and layers they want on top of that,without performance drops.But,the higher resolution those are more memory it takes,and by that I mean DVD/HDD memory.

 

[SensualSeduction]

History Of id's Rage, by Commedieu.

A long time ago John Carmack started talking MAD SHIT about his new engine tech, how it is possibly the best looking and best performing engine ever created n shit. Every interview, every article, every quote, was about his great new technology. Everyone was all, BULLSHIT?!?!, but then he posted screens and videos of his new technology. Everyone then went, Daayyyumm and thats at 60fps?!?!? WOW.

But soon after, the screenshots and the videos started getting dumbed down, the model quality started losing polygons, the post processing effects were no more, the lighting lost sight of multiple objects, the particles were replaced by sprites, and the open world became closed. Without the magic of megatextures, the greatest technical achievement gaming has ever seen, modern post processing and more, little differentiated the game from others. Many found Rage to be underwhelming.

John was then stuck with a game engine running reduced assets/and, well, everything at 60fps, which wasn't the technical marvel he once boasted about. It was hardly the pinnacle of technology for console games. Perhaps he regretted boasting about the technical capabilities of the once great id software, no one will ever know. id learned just as all other developers that console technology is limited. You can have 60fps, but you must reduce everything.

People started to comment and question the technology, as by the naked eye, it appears to be as technically impressive as past titles. It was the focal point of id's commentary about Rage. So thats why its a subject to discuss.Sure, its running 60fps, but any game could run 60fps if you neglect modern day gaming advances, they said.

Those who have been there for Lair, Haze, Too Human, Banjo Kazooie, Kane & Lynch, Tony Hawk, and most video gaming abortions. Come out of the woodwork to speculate on the possibility of it being good. With their track record always against them, it looks to be another sad trophy in the hall of shame.

--

In my opinion, Rage will release and stall in the air. Its not going to find its audience on consoles, and I'm sure id's going to ignore the PC community, where the technological innovation would actually have a chance. An interesting title, ruined by its misleading, uninformed, pr. I'm willing to bet it won't top Bulletstorm. Lots of work, but not enough delivery from id.

The art direction is badass though. They should have just reduced it to 30fps, instead of trying to sway the COD club, which they cant, and made a great experience for all to enjoy without the limitations of 60fps & HD.

Its true,i kidded myself untill now with the FPS argument,but the game looks like ass.Where is the studio who invented the genre

 

[StuBurns]

I wonder if you spent another five plus years optimizing the idTech 4 engine, it'd be possible to get MW2 running at 720p at perfect 60fps. I have no idea, but I wouldn't be surprised.

 

[Always-honest]

Delete some shit, based on what he said, running from the disc is rough.

EDIT: Oh, a 20GB drive? Well it'll still be okay I imagine.

Even if i delete some shit.. i have a launch 360.
It will suck ass, won't it.??

nah, it'll be cooll.... right? right?




















right?

 

[strata8]

Yes, 20/21GB Carmack said.

I thought 360 games can't install data?

 

[StuBurns]

I thought 360 games can't install data?

They have been able to for the last couple of years.

Even if i delete some shit.. i have a launch 360.
It will suck ass, won't it.??

nah, it'll be cooll.... right? right?

It makes me wonder why they're requiring a full install in an all or nothing fashion, because an install of just the first two discs would fit on the 20GB systems I imagine.

 

[Always-honest]

I thought 360 games can't install data?

Huh?

 

[.la1n]

At first I was going to be all "hmph I beg to differ" but then I watched the video...

God damn that looks pretty amazing, and that's a 7 year old modded game. I miss those days when games didn't come out gimped straight out the gate, instead they had amazing scalability upwards.

I'd agree outside of the glowing hands and guns (yes I know it's lighting they have modded.)

 

[.la1n]

Huh?

WAY BACK MACHINE HOOOO

 

[Barberetti]

No it's about RAGE. All the questions about RAGE begin with "RAGE". Those that aren't about it, don't.

The guy conducting the "interview" has fucked up. The source code for id tech 4 is being released after RAGE. id Studio is shipping with the game.

 

[SensualSeduction]

So true

 

[StuBurns]

The guy conducting the "interview" has fucked up. The source code for id tech 4 is being released after RAGE. id Studio is shipping with the game.

I don't think that's it, in the context of the interview the subject does seem to still be Rage.

 

[Akia]

I dunno, as good as RAGE is looking (and will almost definitely be), I have a good feeling about Borderlands 2 - I think it's going to do very well.

Borderlands 2 is definitely going to do well sales wise but I think it might suffer critically due to comparisons to Rage.

 

[Barberetti]

I don't think that's it, in the context of the interview the subject does seem to still be Rage.

Half of it isn't an interview, it's summaries of what Willits supposedly said. If RAGE wasn't shipping with id Studio we would have found out during Quakecon.

 

[StuBurns]

Half of it isn't an interview, it's summaries of what Willits supposedly said. If RAGE wasn't shipping with id Studio we would have found out during Quakecon.

They say 'SDK' not source code, the Doom 3 SDK has been out for a long time no? He also says 'after Rage itself', the itself suggests he is talking about the tools for Rage, otherwise he'd just say after Rage.

Tweet at an id staffer if you want.

 

[Barberetti]

No it's about RAGE. All the questions about RAGE begin with "RAGE". Those that aren't about it, don't.

They say 'SDK' not source code, the Doom 3 SDK has been out for a long time no? He also says 'after Rage itself', the itself suggests he is talking about the tools for Rage, otherwise he'd just say after Rage.

Tweet at an id staffer if you want.

My apologies, you are both right. Just got confirmation from the man himself.

 

[Grinchy]

I have been looking around a little bit, and I can't seem to find any actual 60fps gameplay videos. I know those aren't incredibly common for any game, but I've seen gamersyde or other places do it sometimes, so I was wondering if anyone had any links to 60fps videos of RAGE. I feel like it would really help see how great the game will actually look.

 

[StuBurns]

Carmack? That's pretty cool.

I don't have twitter, bad I love being in a world that does.

I have been looking around a little bit, and I can't seem to find any actual 60fps gameplay videos. I know those aren't incredibly common for any game, but I've seen gamersyde or other places do it sometimes, so I was wondering if anyone had any links to 60fps videos of RAGE. I feel like it would really help see how great the game will actually look.

If you have a Gamespot Gold account, they have like a fifteen minute 60fps video.

 

[Grinchy]

If you have a Gamespot Gold account, they have like a fifteen minute 60fps video.

I don't believe I've ever made an account there, but thanks for the answer. That I know they exist will make them easier to find.

 

[Mikeside]

Borderlands 2 is definitely going to do well sales wise but I think it might suffer critically due to comparisons to Rage.

Depends how far along it is - hopefully it's got long enough in development left that when RAGE comes out, they can take a little peek and create a response to it.

 

[jett]

If you have a Gamespot Gold account, they have like a fifteen minute 60fps video.

wut

 

[DarkChild]

Stu,you have golden account at GS?If so,could you upload video?