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[Figboy79]

I haven't played all of them, but:

Classic:

1) Castlevania III
2) Castlevania IV
3) Castlevania

Metroidvania:

1) Symphony of the Night
2) Aria of Sorrow
3) Order of Ecclesia

 

[entremet]

Classic:

Rondo of Blood
The perfect classic Castlevania, now made available to the majority of the West via the Wii Virtual Console and PSP remake. I lusted after this game as teen, but I couldn't afford to import or own a Super CD.

The controls are the most responsive of the classic Castlevania model. The soundtrack amazing and the hidden stages add great replay value. The addition of Easy Mode Maria is also adds some variety.

Super Castlevania IV
Still great after all these years. It's bested by Rondo, but this was a great entry. The diagonal whipping breaks the game and it's the easiest classic game by far, but it still remain fun and the soundtrack is a showcase.

Castlevania
The first NES game still ages really well. That classic 8bit soundtrack will be revisited for years to come.

Castleroids:

Symphony of the Night
My favorite PSone game and one of top five games ever. Yes, it's easy and the RPG mechanics break the game's challenge. I love the atmosphere, the amazing soundtrack, exploring the huge castle, the random drops. I replay this game frequently. It's also fun to play as Ritcher, with his new arsenal of attacks.

Dawn of Sorrow
My first foray in the handheld games--I need to play the GBA games as well. The souls mechanic is addictive and the OST continues to set a strong standard for the series.

Portait of Ruin
Another solid entry. The dual character mechanic was a welcome change and I also loved that return of stages. The game also has some hardcore challenges too.

 

[kick51]

Yeah, it's pretty wretched, but it does have some cool moments, and (some of) the graphics were pretty impressive for it's day. The first level song is great, and I was glad to hear it in Portrait of Ruin. You also have to love Simon ripping off his wedding tux and having the barbarian outfit underneath.

and the first appearance of Bloody Tears, with pictures literally crying bloody tears in the background


but none of that redeems the game above last place lol

 

[Sir_Crocodile]

From best to worst:

Castlevania: Order of Ecclesia
Castlevania: Symphony of the Night
Castlevania III: Dracula's Curse
Castlevania: Rondo of Blood
Super Castlevania IV
Castlevania: Dawn of Sorrow
Castlevania: Aria of Sorrow
Castlevania: Circle of the Moon
Castlevania: Harmony of Dissonance
Castlevania II: Simon's Quest(bisqwit hack)
Castlevania: Portrait of Ruin
Castlevania
Castlevania: Dracula X
Castlevania II: Simon's Quest
Castlevania: Legacy of Darkness
Castlevania (Nintendo 64)
Castlevania: Lords of Shadow – Mirror of Fate (demo)
Castlevania: Lords of Shadow
Castlevania: Judgement

Probably sounds about right. I didn't play much of bloodlines(just a rental when it came out on the MD), and I don't think I've played any of the 3d ps2 games or handhelds. Is Castlevania III: Dracula's Curse above Rondo of Blood due to the nostalgia of it being my first 'vania game twenty-two years ago? It very might well be!

People should try out bisqwit's CV2 hack if they haven't already, makes the game more fun:

http://bisqwit.iki.fi/cv2fin/

(click "switch patch language" for english)

 

[cartman414]

ClassicVania:
1. Castlevania: Bloodlines
While not the definitive Castlevania (see #2), or even amongst the most 'pure' (the setting and multi-character approach makes sure of that), it's still my favorite. Yeah, nostalgia has a hand in the decision, but it's more than that since nostalgia should reasonably bump Castlevania I and III much higher on my list. I'm going to dig into the details here because I have a feeling this might be a bit of a controversial opinion.

It's mostly because it's just so damn pitch-perfect. If there's anything resembling a dull moment in this game, it's in the longer stretches of Stage 5 (Versailles) which feel a little like padding. Even then, I'd say that they're packed not only with particularly nasty enemies (the swinging mantis things in the first outdoor areas, the knights and fleamen/birds in the interiors and rooftop respectively) but genuine traps (which are surprisingly scarce in the series). Outside of those sections and a few showy set pieces, this game doesn't really let up for more than a moment or two to catch your breath. It's not even that difficult, really, it's just that its paced so well from start to finish that it feels like it doesn't let up. There's always something right in front of you that needs to be dealt with.

Visually, I think Bloodlines beats out Super Castlevania IV. Whereas that game has a really unified, top-notch aesthetic from one end to the other, I've always found it a little... muted. There are colorful bits here and there, don't get me wrong, but it has a pretty low saturation color palette that sort of makes everything feel sort of dull and faded. Bloodlines' sprites aren't nearly as animated or detailed as Simon Belmont, nor is there any question that the SNES is the superior system in terms of graphics. But Bloodlines goes to so many more interesting places and is therefore more visually interesting, at least to me. Yeah, there's some odd color choices here and there, but it also uses color to greater effect to make each area jump out.

Let's not even discuss the ghastly Mode 7 sequences in SCIV, as they cannot hold a candle (lol) to Bloodlines' visual effects. Cool shattering glass effects (Stage 1), jaw-dropping (for 1994) reflections (Stage 2), swaying structures and faux 3-D (Stage 3 and 5), and even a stab at some cool lighting effects (Stage 5). But the best bits are reserved for Stage 6 where entire levels are skewed in slices with what can only be some kind of dark game development magic. Seriously, look at this sequence here. That was mind-blowing and maddeningly difficult back in the day, and I still approach it with a level of caution even now. It's not really that difficult to figure out how to compensate for it, but it's still really intimidating for such an effect. As an aside, I also like that the obligatory "stock up on goodies" section before the final boss battles goes for some honest-to-god scares by having a long empty space with just one of the Armor enemies to remind you what they sound like, then motherofgodthat'scomingfromsomewhereFAST. The only way it could get better is if they came from a direction other than behind.

While we're on graphics, there are lots of subtle throwbacks to older Castlevania games. A quick example is the background of the first level, mirroring Stage A-01 in Castlevania III;

They are effectively in the same location thematically, as right after this section in both games is a long stairway up to a throne room; in CVIII it's the boss fight with Dracula but in Bloodlines, it's a ruin containing the game's first boss. That's not the only example, but it's the one I could find screenshots for quickly enough as my memory is sometimes hazy on where exactly these visual throwbacks are throwing back to.

Before I move on from graphics, I have to say that there's a shocking amount of gore for a Genesis game, especially one that only grabbed a "General Audiences" rating (which would be an "E" game nowadays). Those are disemboweled torsos hanging there at the top of that screenshot, and they also drip blood. That area comes right after beating on a giant, rotting hellhound until it turns into a giant, rotting carcass, which you have to hit one last time to set on fire. You can decapitate harpies, resulting in a geyser of blood. Zombies in the first level look surprisingly decomposed for a 16-bit game, and when killed collapse and spill their guts all over the place. There's even a little nudity (well, for a 16-bit game, and obviously most of it is implied): the harpies and Medusa are kind of topless and there's some nekkid statues and such scattered around. These aren't unusual for Castlevania now, but back in 1994 I felt like I should maybe hide it lest it be taken away.

Gameplay-wise, we're kind of in the sweet spot for the series, in no way more noticeable than the jumping. You have a degree of mid-air control that feels right, without being so loose as to feel floaty but without feeling like the older games where you have absolutely no control any time your feet leave the ground. You even have a dedicated button for your sub-weapons, a much lauded feature of SCIV but one often overlooked in its Genesis cousin. In terms of difficulty, it is pleasantly hard but not excessively so; there aren't too many cheap deaths to be had here, so if you bite the dust it's pretty much all on you. It's definitely not a kick in the balls like CVI and Dracula's Curse, but it definitely gives them a not-so-gentle swat every now and then if you forget this is, in fact, Castle-fucking-vania.

The two playable characters are unique enough that, even if their routes didn't diverge, it'd still be worth playing through as each. But it's the way in which the stages split that really drives it home (that is, John can use his whip to swing across gaps while Eric can pole-vault straight up to reach higher platforms). It's one of my favorite high-level gameplay mechanics where your route is determined not by chance or choice (well, beyond which character you picked) but by the abilities you have at your disposal. It's something that another Genesis great, X-Men 2: Clone Wars did well (but holy shit, is that another long post we'll have to save for later). I also think the implementation of the whip-swinging mechanic is better here than in Super Castlevania IV, because it's less obviously broadcast (with giant animated bat hooks that only ever serve one purpose) and because it's a little harder to do in Bloodlines and feels more like a trick you have to pull off vs. something you whip and 'snap' onto automatically.

In terms of level design, I don't give a damn that I'm fighting helmet-wearing army skeletons in a munitions plant, that shit is cool (Fun fact:I mistakenly called them Nazi Skeletons as a kid, not realizing it was WW1 that follows Bloodlines instead of WW2). I won't go into it too much since this is going to be a hell of a long post anyways, but suffice to say the only uninspired bits are the parts of Stage 5 I mentioned and a few set pieces that don't really work (the raft section of Stage 2, for example). The game switches nicely from standard horizontal action to vertical jumping bits, and even manages to mush the two into a diagonal-scrolling jumping sequence in Stage 3. Enemy placement is fairly solid, though the slower, less janky Medusa Heads are getting borderline predictable (but still a threat, though they're continuing the trend set in CVIV of becoming a shadow of the notorious threat they used to be). Boss designs are... um.... interesting. There's quite a few thematic duds (the statue-thing in Stage 5 being the worst) and some odd choices (Mothra, Animated Cogs, etc.), but enough of the Castlevania staples carry over (Frankenstein, Medusa, Death and I'm willing to just call the Gargoyle a riff on the Giant Bat). Even Dracula's multiple forms seem a nice mix of "Original", "Sorcerer" and "Giant Demon Thing". Oh, and I adore the Elizabeth Bartley boss right before Dracula; for a series so bent on the supernatural, there's a lack of honest sorcery and witchcraft and this fight feels like you're dealing with a powerful spell caster. Death's Tarot card-themed boss rush would normally irk me, but since there's only five of them it's hard to mind (in contrast to Mega Man games where there's usually 8). Plus, it touches on the 'witchcraft' element that I felt is sometimes lacking.

It's all helped along by Michiru Yamane's first score for the series, creating what might just be the perfect Castlevania soundtrack, years before she became known for creating one of the best soundtracks in gaming (that being SotN). The reason Bloodlines' score eeks out SotN is purely a matter of preference; there's some classic Castlevania tracks appearing, even if they're buried (Nothing to Lose and Theme of Simon are the only ones that play without a code being entered). It helps that the Genesis' soundchip has such a distinctive meaty/metallic tone to it, giving the score a weird combination of deep bass undercurrents humming along behind crystalline high notes that sort of echo and warble away instead of just ending. Every single track is 100% Castlevania, something other games on this list just couldn't manage (including SotN, which has some pieces that are great, but maybe don't fit as well as they could). I would link examples, but that'd just be the whole damn soundtrack. So I'll just do that.

The sound effects have a nice texture to them (again, that Genesis sound chip could deliver some nice chunky 'whump' sounds), and there's a few gnarly explosions and one particularly wicked boss scream that, even with the shitty quality they had to wedge it into the game at, still sounds really good.

I think that just about covers everything... Whew... moving right along...


2. Super Castlevania IV
It does everything you could ever want a Castlevania game to do and more. Maybe a bit too much more, as I've always felt it was a little long in the tooth (pun intended) with 11 stages comprised of multiple sections, a lot of which just feel like padding. The controls are the best the classic series ever had (no more up+attack for special weapons, the first but clearly not the last game to do this), even if the multi-directional whip made it too easy and the jumps feel just a tad floaty and forgiving. The music is fantastic, with a nice mix of series staples and a fantastic new tracks that quickly became series staples (though, I can't help but note, not as many as Bloodlines, though those crop up in some pretty dicey areas).

I kind of jumped through all of the good things about the game, which seems a bit unfair considering all the gushing I did for Bloodlines, but that's only because I really don't NEED to go into too much detail. This is the game I recommend to people who are curious about the series, as it is the quintessential Castlevania experience (without the controller-smashing frustration that would only act as a barrier to entry). And really, I can give it no greater praise than that; it's the Castlevania game you use to define Castlevania to people who have no idea what that means.

So why is it in second place? A lot of little reasons, and not all of them personal preference. First, it plays it fairly safe, with only a few really difficult sequences (and they kind of unevenly bunch up at the end, looking at you Stage B-2). The final battle is the easiest in the series, maybe second only to Simon's Quest (which I've always held was bugged anyways). A lot of the other bosses don't really have many memorable gimmicks, which means a lot of them aren't memorable at all, and too many of them are just easily beat down with brute force. The ones that are memorable stick out because they're so goofy (a jewel bat, really?) or notoriously awful (the dancing phantoms in Stage 6 are, according to the manual, named Fred Ascare and Paula Abghoul. Barf). We did get Slogra and Gaibon out of it though, at least. There's also the aforementioned length issue (it's one of the few games in the series I wish were shorter, though not by too much) and a few of the things I mentioned in my big Bloodlines thing.

Being the second best ClassicVania game in my book is still really fucking high praise, and it was a tougher decision than the difference in word volume suggests. Like I said though, I felt I had to really make a case for Bloodlines.


3. Castlevania
While my number one and two pick are sitting where they are because they carried the Castlevania formula to its most enjoyable and interesting (Bloodlines) and complete (SCIV) evolution of the series' essence, the original game sits at number three because it defined that essence. Everything positive I have to say about the series has its roots in this game. The slow, cautious pacing that defines "ClassicVania" is linked inexorably to the terrifying prospect of a Medusa Head showing up RIGHT NOW. The level design all feels grounded in reality because the fantastical elements are kept to a minimum by this game (and believe me, the potential for Konami to do some crazy shit with a fantasy setting like Castlevania was limitless in the 80s).

The castle feels like it occupies a real space because the game has a map that shows it to be true, and your progress through it feels natural; the entryway is sort of set beneath the chapel, which connects to the ruins, which collapses and drops you down into to the catacombs so you can fight you way back up through the dungeons, through the clock tower and into the keep. In a time when level designs were commonly a mish-mash of ideas, Castlevania is basically telling a story of your adventure instead of just having the levels arranged hap-hazardly.

And then there's the music. Do I need to even mention the music beyond that? I don't think so; if you clicked this thread and have bothered reading this far, chances are you've already played a few tracks from this game in your head, if not your audio program-o'-choice. If by chance you've happened this far and you have no idea what I'm talking about, let's just say it's really good and go from there.

So why is it number three? It's just too god damned hard. It's like Dark Souls before "it's like Dark Souls" was used to define a really hard game. It is merciless, unmatched in my gaming history for sheer controller-smashing difficulty. This isn't a game that ruins controllers, or even TVs. You can actually play Castlevania and end up in such a twisted, blithering ball of frustrated hate that you lash out and physically strike your significant other. The next thing you know you've separated, you're losing custody of your kids and all of your married friends stop returning your phone calls. This is a game that ruins lives. And the sad thing is, I'm only exaggerating a teeny bit.

It's also a tad uncontrollable, which even for the times was pretty noticeable compared to the nimbleness of Mario or Mega Man. I like to imagine it's intentional, as the game is so focused on the impending sense of doom that pressing that jump button is almost always a risk. Jumping over a bottomless pit in Mario feels light and fluffy when you hit the other side, but here you feel that landing in your ass because every time you tap "A", you're probably reflexively tensing up. That just means it's working as prescribed, and part of me hopes that this "gameplay as an extension of the horror setting", which is a different thing from "scary" altogether, was intentional. I don't see any way it wasn't when Konami had made or was in the process of making fast-paced games with precision controls like Gradius and Contra. Either way, it's a damn good game and anyone who legitimately finishes it automatically has my respect.


4. Castlevania III: Dracula's Curse
There was as much a struggle between Castlevania and CVIII for the number 3 slot as there was between Bloodlines and SCIV for the number 1. CVIII plays better and isn't nearly as difficult (but still up there, resting in "If you didn't grow up with this kinda thing, you're probably going to hate it" territory), and it introduces some non-linearity and the whole character-swapping thing which are both things I like. Good stuff, though I feel like the on-the-spot swap mechanic was a poor design choice rather than a necessity of the hardware, and it should have probably been a decision made at the start of the game (though no one would ever not play Grant, who's the most enjoyable to play of the non-Belmonts).

There are a few reasons it's number four, and the first is the reason I'm not spending much time on describing the good sides of CVIII. It is essentially Castlevania with more stages, more music and better graphics. That's not a bad thing, but apart from the aforementioned character swapping and some neat level mechanics, it's not doing much new. It doesn't have to, honestly but I can't help but feel like it's a bit of a retread... but still a glorious game and "More Castlevania" wasn't quite the insult it would become later when IGA took over (but I'm going to beat on him a lot in a little bit, so keep reading).

I also have, over the years, noticed that the level design is much messier than the original game. There are lots of areas that feel like they should have something there but don't, and there are bits in the first stage that are unreachable by Trevor, making me think the multi-character approach was something they planned to implement from the start (ala Bloodlines) but didn't for whatever reason didn't. It's probably not something most players notice, but it's something I can't unsee.

CVIII is still a great game, but it's undeniably a follow up to the original with some new ideas and that ultimately lead to it coming in second after the original game.

Really? SCV4 was what felt like "more Castlevania", and the whip broke the challenge that otherwise justified your token Belmont's slow gait, resulting in an oft-anticlimactic, slow paced trod through the castle.

Castlevania III's only weak spot was Stage 7 via the Alucard path, and that could be skipped in favor of the awesome Sypha.

5. Rondo of Blood
GASP! Why is such an obviously great game so insultingly low? It's my own damn fault, really, because I haven't actually finished it. I have it on the Wii Virtual Console, but for reasons I won't go into I haven't been able to complete it, and I can't really rank it fairly until I do so. What I have played, however, tells me it is very very very good (though the up+attack for sub-weapons makes me sad). By all accounts I would say it is a fantastic ClassicVania game, and would probably zip straight to the Number 3 or 4 slot if only I could finish it. Maybe this thread is the impetus I need to play it properly.

FINISH IT!

Hey, guess who made a post so big it couldn't be contained in a single post? Apologies for the double post!

Metroidvania:
1. Symphony of the Night
Actually my favorite game of all time, for which I have quintuple-dipped (One original PSOne copy, three Greatest Hits copies, and the XBLA port). In the interest of space, I'll just link to a previous post which is basically a love letter to the game. And before you protest that I worship SotN but somehow hate IGA, I'll point out that he was brought in as a programmer and was given the title of "assistant director" very late in development, and deserves none of the credit for the game's creation. That didn't stop him from milking the hell out of it, but whatever, we're getting to that rant shortly.


2. Order of Ecclesia
Ecclesia sits comfortably at number two for two big reasons. First, it brought some difficulty back to the series that had become pretty light fare for just over a decade (yes, that includes SotN). Second, it was a Metroidvania, but it was trying to do something new within that sub-genre. The levels are more linear in nature, yet you can bounce between them from a central map. There's a good deal of exploring and scavenger-hunt wankery than I like, but it wasn't unbearable.

I also absolutely adore Shanoa's design, which is dark sexy way without being revealing. She's well animated and stands out nicely amongst other female characters in gaming. As an aside (because this post isn't nearly long enough), I can't help but feel that she an unintended successor to Sonia Belmont, as the names are too close to be coincidence. I say 'unintended' because I don't think IGA set out to create a strong female character, so I'm going to assume he was either hands off with the project (considering it's the best Metroidvania after SotN, that would make sense) or better yet, that he was forced into using her. Considering the way IGA chauvinistically discarded Sonia from the series canon just because he didn't want a girl (eww!) as the progenitor to the Belmont Family (calling it 'an embarrassment to the series'), I'm inclined to believe it wasn't a decision he made. I mean, it wasn't enough to just paint around her, he had to effectively erase her from history just to prove a point. That never sat well with me, so if I can be a prick for a moment, I really hope somebody at Konami saw her design and forced IGA to use her, because it doesn't strike me as something he would ever do willingly (having relegated all females in the series to damsels, sex pots and maids).


3. Aria of Sorrow
Also known as "the best clone of SotN". Bonus points for Julius Mode and further refinement of the "Collect abilities from bad guys" mechanic, but it's number three because Ecclesia is at least trying to do something different while Aria is just more of the same.


4. Dawn of Sorrow
Dawn of Sorrow is only number four because I have to round out the top 5 and this is the least unbearable of what I have left to work with. It's more or less more Aria of Sorrow with less interesting level design, with a frustrating and pointless DS touchscreen feature shoehorned in after every battle. Nothing to really write home about, as even the storyline lacks any interesting angle since Soma Cruz's storyline was nicely wrapped up in Aria.

More of the same isn't bad when the foundation is improved. (I know you don't see it the way I do, but I never was a fan of those long hallways/shafts from SotN.) I won't disagree about the touchscreen stuff from DoS being unnecessary, not to mention the increased grinding, but there was better weapon/soul balance to go around.

OoE I think gets a little too much love. Could have been great if not for the fact that every single enemy is weak to one element yet resistant to everything else.

 

[Retro]

Really? SCV4 was what felt like "more Castlevania", and the whip broke the challenge that otherwise justified your token Belmont's slow gait, resulting in an oft-anticlimactic, slow paced trod through the castle.

I covered the issue with the whip and I agree about the difficulty, but I don't agree that Simon moves any slower in SCIV than he does in the NES iterations. (See my comments on the original Castlevania concerning movement and control). However, SCIV does feel like a significant upgrade in other areas, and not just in the graphics / music department. For one, the controls are much improved (moving on stairs especially).

So yes, it's "More Castlevania" too, but it feels more like a refined update of the series' core concepts rather than just a sequel. CVIII, on the other hand, makes some significant changes too, but no where near the level of changes made from NES to SNES. My comment on CVIII wasn't meant to be taken so negatively; more of Castlevania (er, at least, Classicvania) is a good thing. But it had to rank behind the original just because the original gave us so much. I believe I mentioned it was a hard decision to rank them that way as well, as the difficulty of CVI made CVIII (still hard, but not quite SO bad) the game I played more as a kid.

More of the same isn't bad when the foundation is improved. (I know you don't see it the way I do, but I never was a fan of those long hallways/shafts from SotN.) I won't disagree about the touchscreen stuff from DoS being unnecessary, not to mention the increased grinding, but there was better weapon/soul balance to go around.

My problem with the Metroidvanias that followed SotN is that apart from the layout of the castle (which generally did improve on SotN's layout) and whatever interchangable 'magic' system was used, there wasn't much new really going on, and they always felt like cheap rehashes (ESPECIALLY HoD) rather than improvements on the rock-solid SotN foundation.

As for SotN's long hallways and shafts, they're basically there to give some breathing room to the various sections of the castle; you need a big chunk of space between the Marble Gallery and Outer Wall so the Library and Olrox's Chamber fits in. Is it perfect? No, not at all, but at least it's quickly traversed.

OoE I think gets a little too much love. Could have been great if not for the fact that every single enemy is weak to one element yet resistant to everything else.

This never bothered me too much, except in cases where the resistance completely nullified damage. This didn't happen too often, that I can recall, or at least not often enough that it bothered me. I'll gladly take the positive aspects of OoE if it means the combat has a little wonkiness to it. At least it tries something slightly different and remains nicely tough to beat.

 

[keisuke999]

1: SOTN
2: Super Castlevania 4
3: Castlevania 3

I used to think that SOTN as only good for its time and if I went back to play it all its amazingness would go away.

Nope. Even better now than it was back in 1997.

 

[cartman414]

I covered the issue with the whip and I agree about the difficulty, but I don't agree that Simon moves any slower in SCIV than he does in the NES iterations. (See my comments on the original Castlevania concerning movement and control). However, SCIV does feel like a significant upgrade in other areas, and not just in the graphics / music department. For one, the controls are much improved (moving on stairs especially).

So yes, it's "More Castlevania" too, but it feels more like a refined update of the series' core concepts rather than just a sequel. CVIII, on the other hand, makes some significant changes too, but no where near the level of changes made from NES to SNES. My comment on CVIII wasn't meant to be taken so negatively; more of Castlevania (er, at least, Classicvania) is a good thing. But it had to rank behind the original just because the original gave us so much. I believe I mentioned it was a hard decision to rank them that way as well, as the difficulty of CVI made CVIII (still hard, but not quite SO bad) the game I played more as a kid.

SCV4 was mostly a mode 7 setpiece fest. It did introduce better stair climbing, I'll give it that, but that's something Rondo has as well.

And to rank the original above the third based on that is like ranking the SMB1 over SMB3 because it came first.

And I think you misunderstand my pacing complaint. Rewatch the Sequelitis on Castlevania 1 vs. Castlevania 2 where he goes into how the second game feels monotonous with the enemy threat diminished by poor placement combined with the fact that Simon moves slowly, which has no point with enemies being so easily dispatched. Super CV4 has a very similar problem due to the multi-directional whip easily dispatching enemies. Ask yourself this: would Mega Man 2 be as fun if Mega Man could only move as fast as Simon? No, because the type of challenge does not justify that kind of slow gait.

My problem with the Metroidvanias that followed SotN is that apart from the layout of the castle (which generally did improve on SotN's layout) and whatever interchangable 'magic' system was used, there wasn't much new really going on, and they always felt like cheap rehashes (ESPECIALLY HoD) rather than improvements on the rock-solid SotN foundation.

As for SotN's long hallways and shafts, they're basically there to give some breathing room to the various sections of the castle; you need a big chunk of space between the Marble Gallery and Outer Wall so the Library and Olrox's Chamber fits in. Is it perfect? No, not at all, but at least it's quickly traversed.

That isn't breathing room, that's cruft. And it took a few minutes to traverse in each direction. A few areas also employ zigzagging.

And again, sometimes polish trumps innovation. Not being the first doesn't matter if it's done better.

This never bothered me too much, except in cases where the resistance completely nullified damage. This didn't happen too often, that I can recall, or at least not often enough that it bothered me. I'll gladly take the positive aspects of OoE if it means the combat has a little wonkiness to it. At least it tries something slightly different and remains nicely tough to beat.

It required a little too much weapon swapping for my liking. I don't remember how many enemies didn't have multiple weapon immunities, but they couldn't have been many. Really, they should have only kept that limited to elite mooks.

 

[Juzie]

1. SOTN
2. SC IV
3. Rondo of Blood
4. IGAvanias in any order
5. Don't care about the rest

 

[Haunted]

In order of preference:

Metroidvania:
– Castlevania: Symphony of the Night
– Castlevania: Order of Ecclesia
– Castlevania: Portrait of Ruin
– Castlevania: Harmony of Despair
– Castlevania: Harmony of Dissonance
– Castlevania: Dawn of Sorrow
– Castlevania: Aria of Sorrow
– Castlevania: Circle of the Moon
– Castlevania: Lament of Innocence

Most of the GBA/DS ones are interchangeable. Order of Ecclesia is a step above the rest due to superior art, but otherwise, they're all very similar. Maybe I've even confused some of them with these similar names (I went by memory).

3D:
– Castlevania: Lords of Shadow
– Castlevania (Nintendo 64)
– Castlevania Judgement
– Castlevania: Lords of Shadow 2

Lords of Shadow is an excellent character action game. Castlevania 64 gets the nostalgia bonus. Judgement wasn't great. I'm still recovering from the LoS 2 disappointment.


Classic:
– Super Castlevania IV
– Castlevania: The Adventure ReBirth
– Castlevania: Rondo of Blood
– Castlevania II: Simon's Quest

I'm not a huge fan of the classic gameplay, I'm happy that the series evolved to a Metroidvania. These are the ones I played. I didn't particularly like any of them.

This is probably how I'd do it.

 

[jaxword]

Judgment was pretty bad, but it's still fun with friends. Also it made some boring characters actually interesting for once.

 

[Sakujou]

First of all, iam a bit impressed that there are far more castlevania games existing than i imagined...

My vote goes to
Sotn
Los
Ooe

Wasnt a big castlevania fan before and the games i have played so far except the mentioned games above didnt catch me.

 

[Antoids]

1) Symphony of the Night
2) Dawn of Sorrow
3) Order of Ecclesia

i dont really like other vanias

 

[sector4]

Rondo of Blood is my favourite.

 

[Retro]

SCV4 was mostly a mode 7 setpiece fest. It did introduce better stair climbing, I'll give it that, but that's something Rondo has as well.

I find it hard to buy this considering Mode 7 is used so sparingly; there's only 3 or 4 levels where it is used at all, unless I'm forgetting something. And I made a point of saying how the Mode 7 areas are the least interesting parts of the game, for what it's worth.

And to rank the original above the third based on that is like ranking the SMB1 over SMB3 because it came first.

As much as I love Super Mario Bros. 3, I think I actually would rank the original over it as well, and for the same reasons;

- Significant in defining the core concepts of the series ("Historical" value)
- Played it much more as a kid (Nostalgia).
- Difficulty (SMB3 was no pushover either, but SMB is the harder game)
- SMB3 adds lots of complexity and new things to do, but it is an extension of SMB.

That's actually a very useful comparison because Super Mario World is more or less sitting in the same position as Super Castlevania IV. Both have better sound / music / graphics, but more to the point both add new mechanics (Yoshi, spin jump, more emphasis on exploration) and further refine the series' gameplay. Super Mario Bros 3 is very very very very VERY good, and like the Castlevania I / III decision could probably change based on the mood I'm in, but if I have to rank them, I personally put SMB ahead of SMB3. The biggest difference is that SMW would be behind both, whereas I put SCIV ahead.

And I think you misunderstand my pacing complaint. Rewatch the Sequelitis on Castlevania 1 vs. Castlevania 2 where he goes into how the second game feels monotonous with the enemy threat diminished by poor placement combined with the fact that Simon moves slowly, which has no point with enemies being so easily dispatched. Super CV4 has a very similar problem due to the multi-directional whip easily dispatching enemies. Ask yourself this: would Mega Man 2 be as fun if Mega Man could only move as fast as Simon? No, because the type of challenge does not justify that kind of slow gait.

I've seen the series, but I'm not convinced comparing CV1 and Simon's Quest is the best way to compare CV1 to CVIII. For one, you're using his argument for poor enemy placement (arguably an issue with level design rather than control) to admonish the speed at which Simon moves, but that argument has nothing to do with the actual movement speed. Yes, CV2 feels monotonous and slow, but as you yourself say, that's because the enemies are easily dispatched due to poor level design. In games like CV1 (especially CV1), CVIII and SCIV, that level design is much better, and the pacing fits much better as a result.

Your Mega Man comparison is also flawed, as there's no difference between Mega Man 1 and 2's movement speed, just as there's no significant different between CVI, CVIII and SCIV's movement speed (Obviously it might be a little faster or slower, but not enough that I'd notice unless they were running side by side). I mean, would it be fair to compare Mario's run speed to Mega Man?

The point is, SCIV's difficulty drops significantly because of the multi-directional whipping, and I made that very clear. But the platforming segments remain fairly tough because of the movement speed and jumping (which are much more forgiving here, but still pretty hefty), and that's more or less right on track with the older games.

(This reminds me, I have a big long rant about how Enemy Placement is becoming a lost art, but that's for another day).

That isn't breathing room, that's cruft. And it took a few minutes to traverse in each direction. A few areas also employ zigzagging.

And I literally said in my last post that further Metroidvanias improved the layout of the castle, and I meant it. "Breathing room" was meant to suggest that they needed to create space in parts of the map for later areas, something that "Cruft" doesn't exactly describe (as the space provided is getting out of the way and does serve a purpose). "A few minutes" is also a gross exaggeration, even before items like the Gravity Boots and Spirit of Wolf are obtained.

And again, sometimes polish trumps innovation. Not being the first doesn't matter if it's done better.

I strongly disagree with this statement. Not that polish isn't important (Hell, Blizzard has made boatloads of money polishing up other studios' work), but that the Metroidvanias that follow SotN somehow polish that formula in any significant way. All of them are a step backwards in terms of scope, not to mention controls and visual / audio considerations, which is mostly a result of them landing on Nintendo handhelds (wonderful as they are, powerful they are not).

The only thing the handhelds have over SotN is improved map layout (and not all of them do that: CotM and HoD are absolutely awful) and difficulty. So yes, sometimes polish trumps innovation, but not in this case. There simply isn't enough polishing going on to make the handhelds (beyond OoE and Aria) anything more than middling clones.

 

[cartman414]

I find it hard to buy this considering Mode 7 is used so sparingly; there's only 3 or 4 levels where it is used at all, unless I'm forgetting something. And I made a point of saying how the Mode 7 areas are the least interesting parts of the game, for what it's worth.

Maybe I overexaggerated on the Mode 7. I meant that that was practically the only other gimmick.

As much as I love Super Mario Bros. 3, I think I actually would rank the original over it as well, and for the same reasons;

- Significant in defining the core concepts of the series ("Historical" value)
- Played it much more as a kid (Nostalgia).
- Difficulty (SMB3 was no pushover either, but SMB is the harder game)
- SMB3 adds lots of complexity and new things to do, but it is an extension of SMB.

That's actually a very useful comparison because Super Mario World is more or less sitting in the same position as Super Castlevania IV. Both have better sound / music / graphics, but more to the point both add new mechanics (Yoshi, spin jump, more emphasis on exploration) and further refine the series' gameplay. Super Mario Bros 3 is very very very very VERY good, and like the Castlevania I / III decision could probably change based on the mood I'm in, but if I have to rank them, I personally put SMB ahead of SMB3. The biggest difference is that SMW would be behind both, whereas I put SCIV ahead.

SMB was a little too basic IMO, and had a few recycled levels to boot. SMB3 is still the most varied, and struck the best balance between platforming and exploration. (SMW was a step too far in the latter, and was a little too easy.)

I've seen the series, but I'm not convinced comparing CV1 and Simon's Quest is the best way to compare CV1 to CVIII. For one, you're using his argument for poor enemy placement (arguably an issue with level design rather than control) to admonish the speed at which Simon moves, but that argument has nothing to do with the actual movement speed. Yes, CV2 feels monotonous and slow, but as you yourself say, that's because the enemies are easily dispatched due to poor level design. In games like CV1 (especially CV1), CVIII and SCIV, that level design is much better, and the pacing fits much better as a result.

I'm not comparing CV1 to CV3 in that comparison. I'm comparing CV3 to CV4. And it's not poor level design, it's the similarly easily dispatched enemies that I'm using to draw comparisons, which in the case of 4, is because of the multidirectional whip. And that's why 4 feels monotonous and slow; a little too much down time slowly moving to the next hazard. There's much less threat to justify that pace.

Your Mega Man comparison is also flawed, as there's no difference between Mega Man 1 and 2's movement speed, just as there's no significant different between CVI, CVIII and SCIV's movement speed (Obviously it might be a little faster or slower, but not enough that I'd notice unless they were running side by side). I mean, would it be fair to compare Mario's run speed to Mega Man?

I'm not comparing Mega Man's run speed to other Mega Man games. I'm saying that it remains so fun in spite of being the easiest because it's all so balanced: the encounters, the weapons (with a few OP exceptions), and most importantly, the pace. It's the type of game that doesn't require the methodical approach of a Castlevania. So what happens when you drop the pacing down but keep everything else practically the same?

The point is, SCIV's difficulty drops significantly because of the multi-directional whipping, and I made that very clear. But the platforming segments remain fairly tough because of the movement speed and jumping (which are much more forgiving here, but still pretty hefty), and that's more or less right on track with the older games.

On the converse, some of the traps in SCV4 are even harder. That's one thing they got right.

And I literally said in my last post that further Metroidvanias improved the layout of the castle, and I meant it. "Breathing room" was meant to suggest that they needed to create space in parts of the map for later areas, something that "Cruft" doesn't exactly describe (as the space provided is getting out of the way and does serve a purpose). "A few minutes" is also a gross exaggeration, even before items like the Gravity Boots and Spirit of Wolf are obtained.

I see what you mean by "breathing room". They still wouldn't need to fill so much in if they'd been more efficient with the design.

And the Gravity Boots and Spirit of Wolf don't do much for horizontal expanses. And "a few minutes" isn't too much of an exaggeration, if at all.

I strongly disagree with this statement. Not that polish isn't important (Hell, Blizzard has made boatloads of money polishing up other studios' work), but that the Metroidvanias that follow SotN somehow polish that formula in any significant way. All of them are a step backwards in terms of scope, not to mention controls and visual / audio considerations, which is mostly a result of them landing on Nintendo handhelds (wonderful as they are, powerful they are not).

I personally ended up with a bit of ending fatigue with SotN. I will grant that it has more intriguing lore, but I find it more exhausting to play through.

The only thing the handhelds have over SotN is improved map layout (and not all of them do that: CotM and HoD are absolutely awful) and difficulty. So yes, sometimes polish trumps innovation, but not in this case. There simply isn't enough polishing going on to make the handhelds (beyond OoE and Aria) anything more than middling clones.

Oh, no question about CotM or HoD. It's why I usually preface my statements/counterpoints with "from Aria onward" or somesuch.

 

[oldschlgmr]

Sotn
Super Castlevania 4
Castlevania
Castlevania 2

 

[dab0ne]

1) TIE Symphony of the Night and Super Castlevania
2) who cares

Winner!!

 

[Earthpainting]

I've played more than the following ones, but I don't think they're worth ranking. I'm only listing the ones I actually enjoyed.

1. Aria of Sorrow
2. Symphony of the Night
3. Order Of Ecclesia
4. Vampire's Kiss (I know and I'm sorry)
5. Bloodlines
6. Rondo of Blood
7. Castlevania IV
8. Dawn of Sorrow

I guess I should elaborate a bit too, since lists are pretty useless by themselves. The reason why I preferred Aria over the rest is pretty simple. Symphony of the Night was one of my favourite games on the original Playstation. I really liked the interconnected world, melee combat and the presentation had a certain elegance to it. I could not get enough of it. Aria of Sorrow was the first time they nailed the feel of Symphony of the night on a handheld system, unlike their previous attempts. But Aria of Sorrow would have to do something more than just be a portabel SotN, and it was. The inclusion of the souls opened the game up so much more. You got a whole range of new skills, both passive and active, both offensive and defensive. While the game was obviously a step down in presentation, I think the level design was a step above SotN. Last but not last is that I thought that the simple story that it tried to tell was cute and decently done. Just one of the greats.

 

[Frost_Ace]

Metroidvanias:

1. Aria of Sorrow: Yes this is the best. Very balanced game, love the soul system, good OST and nice story to boot. One of my favorite games of all time and one of my most played.

2. Order of Ecclesia: best combat in the series by far, nice difficulty, awesome bosses, great soundtrack but weak level design. Shanoa is GOAT though.

3. Circle of the Moon: finished a playthrough of this recently and it was great, best castle design of the series by far, the controls are a bit clunky but it's so replayable thanks to the various modes, love the card system.

4. Symphony of the Night: Best presetation of the series, best OST (tied with SCIV and PoR) but it's so easy and the inverted castle is utter poop that I can't really place it higher. To me almost all the sequels did something better than this game but I can't deny its beauty and the overall package is still one of the strongest of the series.

5. Dawn of Sorrow (if I did another playthrough I could place it above SotN).

6. Portrait of Ruin

7. Harmony of Dissonance

 

[Castef]

My top-3

1: Order of Ecclesia
2: Symphony of the Night
3: Portrait of Ruin

 

[redcrayon]

It's interesting how, with hindsight, OOE is now regarded as one of the best of the series, when at the time all I remember is people being a bit nonplussed regarding the linearity of the first half of the game.

Personally I love it. Perhaps, all in all, it has a great protagonist, combat, not too easy, not too difficult, stellar music, good upgrade system, meaty bosses and it doesn't outstay it's welcome. It's a solid entry all the way through rather than an uneven one. The pixel art is also gorgeous and will stand up well, also it's still looking pretty good on a 3DS XL rather than the blurry ghosting of Aria/Dawn of Sorrow (which are still great entries).

 

[Frost_Ace]

It's interesting how, with hindsight, OOE is now regarded as one of the best of the series, when at the time all I remember is people being a bit nonplussed regarding the linearity of the first half of the game.

Personally I love it. Perhaps, all in all, it has a great protagonist, combat, not too easy, not too difficult, stellar music, good upgrade system, meaty bosses and it doesn't outstay it's welcome. It's a solid entry all the way through rather than an uneven one. The pixel art is also gorgeous and will stand up well, also it's still looking pretty good on a 3DS XL rather than the blurry ghosting of Aria/Dawn of Sorrow (which are still great entries).

The level design is kinda bad though, noticeably in the castle where there are too many copy pasted rooms. I wish they went with a more platform based approach like they did in the training hall (best bonus level).

 

[Earthpainting]

The level design is kinda bad though, noticeably in the castle where there are too many copy pasted rooms. I wish they went with a more platform based approach like they did in the training hall (best bonus level).

Yeah, Order Of Ecclesia has some questionable level design at times. I remember several of the areas also being straight lines. All the other elements it had in place were great, and I really liked the structure. I'd be so down for another one of these.

 

[redcrayon]

Oh, I'd agree with all of those criticisms too, it's not a perfect game by any means.