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Ratchet & Clank Future: Tools of Destruction Trailer

Snah said:
Confirmed to be real-time.

Where?

The reason why I'm skeptical is in this months GameInformer they state on page 66 that the cutscenes for Heavenly Sword are CG.

Which in and of itself isn't bad, but you have uninformed people going around saying they're real-time to push their own agenda, so do you have a link to any statement saying all cutscenes are real-time?
 
KachoMakura said:
The reason why I'm skeptical is in this months GameInformer they state on page 66 that the cutscenes for Heavenly Sword are CG.

If they suggested all the cutscenes in HS are CG then they're wrong.
 
Based upon developer quotes?

They say it's rendered in-engine, then converted to a video file to make for a seamless transition rather than having to wait for loading times.
 
AltogetherAndrews said:
I'm sure Jak will be back though. Naughty Dog probably needed a break, but that franchise will be back. And calling Sly "meh" is borderline heresy.

I know it's a solid series, but I never got into Sly.
 
MercuryLS said:
Thank god Ratchet and not Jak survived the next-gen leap. I really hate Jak games and I'm happy to see ND do Uncharted (first ND game I've been interested in since CTR). Sly was a bit "meh" IMO so I'm also happy to see Sucker Punch do something different, Infamous looks great.


I could go on a page long rant about how wrong you are, but I'll settle for you're wrong. Jak is a way better series then Ratchet.
 
Snah said:
Based upon developer quotes?

They say it's rendered in-engine, then converted to a video file to make for a seamless transition rather than having to wait for loading times.
So it's pre-rendered not real-time then.
 
You suggested it was CG. It is not CG.

Is it "pre-rendered"?

Err...it's running and captured on a PS3 Dev Kit. It's basically as close to real-time as you can get but they've opted to convert it to video format to forgo loading times.

Some HS footage IS CG, but this isn't the case with Ratchet and Clank. What you're seeing is what the engine is capable of reproducing.
 
Snah said:
You suggested it was CG. It is not CG.

Is it "pre-rendered"?

Err...it's running and captured on a PS3 Dev Kit. It's basically as close to real-time as you can get but they've opted to convert it to video format to forgo loading times.

Some HS footage IS CG, but this isn't the case with Ratchet and Clank. What you're seeing is what the engine is capable of reproducing.

Being pre-rendered you can fix any framerate or graphical issues before outputting a video. Little known fact, Heavenly Sword was running realtime at E3 2005 on a PS3 Devkit but was only running at 5fps. This output was then spedup to 60fps with additional effects added for the trailer we got.

All I'm saying is that some of this wasn't real-time which is what you incorrectly said.
 
KachoMakura said:
Being pre-rendered you can fix any framerate or graphical issues before outputting a video. Little known fact, Heavenly Sword was running realtime at E3 2005 on a PS3 Devkit but was only running at 5fps. This output was then spedup to 60fps with additional effects added for the trailer we got.

All I'm saying is that some of this wasn't real-time which is what you incorrectly said.

OK...let's read a developer quote.

ROFL said:
Erm, no. It's all in-engine lighting.



Surprisingly, it actually runs at frame but yes it's captured to video for post (colour correction, editing etc).






Bravo!!! I think you have it!! :lol

(but just to keep you guessing, some of the cut-scenes ARE literally real-time, in-game, as was also the case with Resistance)

So it's NOT the same scenario with Heavenly Sword where it was running at 5 FPS.

It has been confirmed to be RUNNING AT FRAME.

So, it's essentially real time without having the disadvantages of being real time (loading).

So, outside of color correction and minor editing, it's essentially real time. Why does it even matter to you? Are you trying to claim it's not representative of the PS3 and that it's all just some trickery? It's not.
 
KachoMakura said:
Where?

The reason why I'm skeptical is in this months GameInformer they state on page 66 that the cutscenes for Heavenly Sword are CG.

Which in and of itself isn't bad, but you have uninformed people going around saying their real-time to push their own agenda, so do you have a link to any statement saying all cutscenes are real-time?

One of the HS developers has had this to say about the cutscenes:

DeanoC @ PSINext said:
We have 3 types of cut-scenes in the game

1) Offline rendered FMV. Something in these scenes would cost too much (i.e. take too much development time) to develop on PS3 for a one shot effort. Think some fancy effects, eyeball reflections etc.

2) Rendered in-game real-time but captured and played back as an FMV.
We do this sometimes, for the simply reason it helps hide load times. So while we show you a cutscene, we can be loading the level your about to play in the background, instead of actually increasing the load time while we brought in the cutscene data (which itself can be huge, due to resolution of the animation and texture data for the close ups) also means of course there more memory for the actual game bits.

3) Rendered in-game.
As the only reason we do two is for memory/loading reasons, at other times we have the resources available so we just render them real-time.

BTW the choice between type 2 and 3 is a nice advantage of Bluray. Its a non obvious optimisation a big ol' disk lets you make. Were really tight on disk space at the moment mind, so in a few places we had to go with type 3 cos we didnt' have any more disk space for more HD movies.

#1 is recorded footage with added CG effects. (example 1[the reflection in the eye is CG], example 2 [the wings are CG]).

#2 is in game footage recorded to save load times.

#3 is in game realtime.

Anyways, Ratchet looks great.
 
Snah said:
OK...let's read a developer quote.



So it's NOT the same scenario with Heavenly Sword where it was running at 5 FPS.

It has been confirmed to be RUNNING AT FRAME.

So, it's essentially real time without having the disadvantages of being real time (loading).

So, outside of color correction and minor editing, it's essentially real time. Why does it even matter to you? Are you trying to claim it's not representative of the PS3 and that it's all just some trickery? It's not.

You said it's running realtime which some of it is NOT. This shouldn't be that hard to understand. I'm merely correcting your comment. Heavenly Sword was just an example, I'm not saying the same thing is going on here. The truth of the matter is we'll never know what these scenes looked like before all the editing and such.

GOW's most impressive cutscenes are 'pre-rendered' and I consider this cheating aswell.
 
I hope Uncharted and MGS4 don't have to use FMV for loading assistance. In MGS4 it's really unlikely but it seems to be a productive way around the sony's disk read speed.
 
KachoMakura said:
You said it's running realtime which some of it is NOT. This shouldn't be that hard to understand. I'm merely correcting your comment. Heavenly Sword was just an example, I'm not saying the same thing is going on here. The truth of the matter is we'll never know what these scenes looked like before all the editing and such.

GOW's most impressive cutscenes are 'pre-rendered' and I consider this cheating aswell.

Yes, and the footage where it is derived IS running in real time. Obviously, to hide loading times they are opting to use video footage.

I don't see this as being a bad compromise, or suggesting that Insomniac isn't representing their game correctly in terms of what the PS3 is capable of accomplishing. For all intents and purposes, that footage IS real time.


Heavenly Sword actually used CG FMV for some of its scenes, which Ratchet does NOT do.

Editing? Seriously, it's probably very minimal...Like they said, color correction and so forth. We already know that it was running at frame. So, since they decided to hide loading times by using video capture, why not go ahead and correct some of the footage?

I'm sure one of the devs could verify that the footage we see is very much indicative of what they have running out of a PS3 to begin with. I don't think they could have made it anymore clear, but people are seriously trying to downplay this, which I find pretty funny.

Yes, Ratchet looks that good.
 
So it's prerendered cutscenes. Eh, the game loses some of it's wow. The gameplay looks fantastic, but prerendered is prerendered, it has been done in generations past just sticking it in video form and not worrying about effects or framerate and aren't much to strut about since it isn't realtime. Cutscenes are the perfect time to showcase the realtime engine since it's all directed by the devs too. :|
 
HomerSimpson-Man said:
So it's prerendered cutscenes. Eh, the game loses some of it's wow. The gameplay looks fantastic, but prerendered is prerendered, it has been done in generations past just sticking it in video form and not worrying about effects or framerate and aren't much to strut about since it isn't realtime. Cutscenes are the perfect time to showcase the realtime engine since it's all directed by the devs too. :|

Sigh...

So if a game captures a cut scene directly from the engine in real time, but instead uses a video, it's not as amazing?

Good grief.

Have you guys ever played Resistance? It's the same deal. The gameplay/cutscenes are basically indistinguishable, and they hide the loading VERY well because of capturing the scenes to video.
 
Snah said:
Sigh...

So if a game captures a cut scene directly from the engine in real time, but instead uses a video, it's not as amazing?

Good grief.

Have you guys ever played Resistance? It's the same deal. The gameplay/cutscenes are basically indistinguishable, and they hide the loading VERY well because of capturing the scenes to video.

It's not real-time dude. Did you know PS3 dev-kits have a gig of RAM(or atleast they used to, I'm pretty sure that's still the case).

Pre-rendered does not equal real-time no matter how you slice it.
 
That doesn't mean that the scene would have been ram contrained, which is the only time the whole PS3 devkit havign 1 gig would have come into play.
 
KachoMakura said:
It's not real-time dude. Did you know PS3 dev-kits have a gig of RAM(or atleast they used to, I'm pretty sure that's still the case).

Pre-rendered does not equal real-time no matter how you slice it.

Uh, if it's pre-rendered using source material that is essentially real time, what's the big difference? Again, they're not adding any CG into it. It's running at frame. What is your problem? What don't you understand? Do you think this isn't representative of what the engine is capable of reproducing? Is that what your intention is in this thread?

This isn't some sort of misrepresentation at all. Play Resistance, and please, use some common sense regarding the quotes the developers have explicitly made in multiple threads.
 
Zen said:
That doesn't mean that the scene would have been ram contrained, which is the only time the whole PS3 devkit havign 1 gig would have come into play.

Yeah, especially considering those scenes are using in game assets and geometry. Nothing is CG-trickery or the result of extra memory, yet he continues his crusade to try and downplay this game's graphics.

Unbelievable..
 
I'm not downplaying the graphics, this is one of the games I'll be picking up this holiday. The game looks INCREDIBLE.

But some of it is NOT real-time, I think we both understand this but you continue to go around in circles with me for what reason I don't know :lol
 
Or is it basically the same thing that is derived from in-game, but captured to video because of loading?

It's derived from real-time footage. It's indicative of the engine's graphical prowess. So what's the point in even arguing over whether it's "technically" real time? You could argue either side, but the fact remains that the cut scenes are basically the result of the engine with no CG, so to the end user this shouldn't make the slightest bit of difference.

Oh, but they add color correction to the end product. My bad. That's such a huge difference. But, let's see what you initially said:

"going around saying they're real-time to push their own agenda"

Yep. The cutscenes definitely aren't derived from real time engine footage produced AT FRAME...sorry for misleading you people based upon developer quotes. I guess it was just my own "agenda".
 
KachoMakura said:
You are too emotionally invested to have any kind of serious debate with.

Please, let's move on.

I'm not emotionally invested at all.

So, what was the agenda you were referring to?

Because, if I'm correct in my own assumption about what that agenda is referring to, then my points above already prove that I'm right.
 
Awesome trailer that's filled with pure Insomniac goodness through and through. This is one of my most wanted games this year.
 
See, that trailer totally justifies the "Pixar" talk. Not in regards to point by point graphics quality, but certainly in regards to character designs and trailer "flow". This is exactly what this generation needs right around now.
 
Maybe the new screens that IGN put up can help put this back on track:

ratchet-clank-future-tools-of-destruction-20070717030326328.jpg

ratchet-clank-future-tools-of-destruction-20070717030327813.jpg

ratchet-clank-future-tools-of-destruction-20070717030328953.jpg

ratchet-clank-future-tools-of-destruction-20070717030330297.jpg
 
This thread is seriously one of the main reasons I just feel like giving up on checking this forum. Only reason I started coming was to get news/media that I didn't see elsewhere but now it's constantly this kind of bickering.

You've seen how the game looks like when you play it, why the hell does it matter how they did the non-interactive cut-scenes?
 
I like that this game seems to so naturally bring more cinematic elements to the series. Seems as much to do with direction as it does with the quality of the assets.
 
I love the fact that when you turn guys into penguins, there's also snowfall. Very funny stuff.

Also, whoever designed Ratchet's ears in this game deserves a raise. Those are some real next-gen Lombax ear animations right there.
 
The Captain at the beginning of it made me laugh out loud. Im so happy to see him back. And seriously, the game looks great, everything is so smooth and vibrant. With some good humor in there to boot.
 
I like it a lot

It seems there are references to star wars, especially when the star ship fly away, looks like a sequence of Empires Strikes Back

The pods with big legs seems like humorous versions of the tech monsters in Resistance
 
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