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Recommend me a shotgun for home protection
- Thread starter Tornado Condor
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Tornado Condor
Member
It's a good thing she was prepared right?
How many people got stabbed? Quick take knives away from Chefs they use the same tools. Pls stop with your anti-gun agenda.
It's a small fraction that of gun shots. Even if you think its a problem it's not an argument against gun control either way.
Some of you guys here seriously think its OK to kill 10,000 people every year to save at best a few dozen people. It's totally insane reasoning and you guys need to stop.
Tornado Condor
Member
Yeah, clearly. I can't be a normal individual who wishes to protect himself or his family right?
Cartoonish view of the world and especially the US where virtually no one is breaking into a house out of hunger.
Just a silly, naive and ignorant thing to say.
Nope. If you feel like you need to own a shotgun in California to protect your family, you're either politically indoctrinated or mentally ill. Keep in mind those are pretty broad categories... but still. Nothing really "normal" about that outside of America (I guess?) and maybe some parts of the third world.
You're purposefully being obtuse and it's not doing you or your argument any favours.
Remove the bit about hunger and he's pretty on the ball, honestly. Even in America.
Some of you guys here seriously think every gun owner is a raving psychopath whose only reason to own a gun is to go out and massacre innocent people. It's totally insane reasoning and you guys need to stop.
Tornado Condor
Member
Because California is a perfect utopia where no crime happens right? There are dangerous cities and dangerous parts of cities as well. If you got out of your room you would know that for a fact.
Russell_T_Shackelford
Banned
Since this thread was specifically started as a question about shotguns, if you want to diddle with statistics, can you tell us how many of those "10,000" (or "70 murders since thread was created") were committed with shotguns? You may not be aware, but shotgun murders are outnumbered by knife murders by a factor of more than 4-to-1. And even if you add in rifle murders... yes, even those scary "assault rifles"... knives outnumber their combined total by 2-to-1. "Blunt object" murders also outnumber either shotguns or rifles, so I guess "statistically" I should be more scared of the people suggesting baseball bats as an alternative.
At least I'm not so fucked up that I need a shotgun to feel safe in my room. Cool logic, by the way. Totally shot down my argument by calling me a nerd. Fucking idiot.
I don't think anyone believes that politically indoctrinated and misinformed people are psychopaths, fyi. The fact that they're mostly just normal people makes them more prone to accidents/incidents that involve needlessly hurting/killing themselves or others around them.
Tornado Condor
Member
Says the guy who said that owning a gun you are either one of the following
dipshit.
That's my argument. It's a bit more defensible then saying I don't know what I'm talking about because I'm a basement dweller. Come on, now. Not sure why you'd consider those first two things to be insults, by the way. Mental illness is a pretty serious issue, and so is political indoctrination when it leads to the kind of gun culture that exists in America.
Tornado Condor
Member
No, you have no idea what you're talking about. I would like to live in your perfect little utopia.
It's closer to reality than wherever you're living. Enjoy the 12-guage. Please do me a favour and try not to hurt anybody.
Wendel Clark
Member
Get something more powerful imo
Tornado Condor
Member
I'll try not to!
Actually we don't know what type of gun was used for about 1,700 deaths per year. Your claims are misleading since those numbers could easily be higher. The only meaningful point your are alluding to are the known high number of handgun deaths. Obviously, rational gun control will start with handguns, but doesn't end there. You're not going to control handguns without putting in place gun control measures for all types of guns. Nor will a law targeting a specific type of gun do much since gun manufacturers are clever enough to find loopholes in the law and make something else just as dangerous. And of course they're all pretty lethal anyways, so banning one type will just make another type more common.
So it's a fallacy to try to divide the categories of guns as if they were meaningfully different. Ultimately, you still have to keep them all out of the wrong hands.
Dr Bass
Gold Member
Curious if you see the irony.
Just FYI, I live in California ("good" area too) and I have stood on the other side of my front door while someone tried to break in around 3AM. They didn't know I was home, nor did they know I was basically holding the door shut while they tried to do it. I do not own a gun.
Baron Doggystyle von Woof
Member
For a European this thread feels very surreal.
Why not buy better locks, camera's or an alarm? If that doesn't make you feel safe how about a metal baseball bat?
Why not buy better locks, camera's or an alarm? If that doesn't make you feel safe how about a metal baseball bat?
... that if someone breaks into your house, they're more likely to steal from you than to maim, rape, or kill you?
Not sure if my point got through. I might've been unclear. Also, my house has been broken into as well. Cops thought the guy was trying to steal my car. He fled as he heard me getting up (took a jar of coins with him, lol). Scary incident, and the guy was certainly a criminal, but he wasn't there to kill me.
In any case, sure-fire way to turn the vastly more common type of property-theft home invasion into a bloody crime scene: scare the guy by pulling a gun on him.
Russell_T_Shackelford
Banned
Being that shotguns/rifles make up about 10% of murders committed using known types of firearms, it would make sense to extrapolate that only around 10% of those 1700 unknowns would be shotguns/rifles as well, in which case they would still be vastly outnumbered by knife murders.
And I do love these "well the guy breaking in probably isn't there to kill you" responses. I'm sure in the majority of home invasion murders the initial intent of the intrusion wasn't to commit murder. "Fight or flight" doesn't always fall in favor of the occupant.
Liamario
Banned
Yeah, as an Irish guy, this makes me feel very uncomfortable. Some of the posters have scenarios in their heads that wouldn't look out of place in a movie. Reading between the lines, I'm getting a very NRA indoctrination vibe. I wouldn't want to live or visit anywhere where I felt like I needed to have a firearm on me. 'I don't feel I need one', or 'it's just in case'- yeah, you've become a victim of scaremongering and NRA propaganda as far as I'm concerned.
Wow man why are you taking this so personal?
At the end of the day its the OP's choice and his business. I'm no gun lover but shit happens dude. OP has already said he hopes he never has to use it and is clearly just taking safety measures for his well being and the good of his home. He's not coming off as a lunatic looking to go on a rampage for no reason.
I seriously don't understand why it affects you this much where you're calling him an idiot and are questioning his mental state. Please explain it to me. I'm genuenly curious if you've had some kind of experience or something
We don't really know that. Either way, you still have to target all guns to some extend to take down the most common types of guns used if that was your point. We're also not about suicides at all, which is also dominated by guns suicides.
Dr Bass
Gold Member
The irony is that you said someone who wants a gun is either mentally ill or politically indoctrinated.
Then you turned around and said people only steal because they are under privileged.
That viewpoint is political indoctrination whether you like it or not. And as far as being mentally ill goes, I am not sure what sympathizing with an armed robber and condemning a law abiding citizen with a gun at home falls under. Just funny to me to see so many people trying to paint everything as black and white, and always in favor of their viewpoint. Especially when you can't even see how you fall on the other side of the same coin with that kind of rhetoric. Reminds me though, I've also lived next to some pretty messed up people. Owned their home outright, and still came over and stole from us when we were kids. Kind of a long story, but yes, there are simply evil people out in the world.
Not a gun owner like I said, but I can't understand how adamant some people get about normal folk owning them. There are millions and millions of these things out there. If normal gun ownership were an actual problem we would hear about it a lot more. They are literally just inanimate things that sit there and do nothing until someone picks them up and does something with them.
Oh, I see. I never meant to imply that (although I do think there's a strong correlation). What I thought I was saying was that the majority of home invasions result in theft and not violent crime.
...and obviously everyone is indoctrinated to an extent. My argument is that it becomes particularly dangerous when it inspires this kind of gun culture.
What's the rhetoric I'm falling under, again? That I think a lot of criminals tend to come from lower social classes? That's a sad statistical truth, isn't it?
Also, "law-abiding" doesn't make much of a difference to my evaluation of the situation since I'm making a moral/practical argument and not a legal one. I obviously don't think OP belongs in prison (nor do any gun owners in America. It's legal, after all). I just don't like gun culture, and I feel that the laws are in need of deep, sweeping changes.
LeeRoyBrown
Banned
The Daily Show: John Oliver Investigates Gun Control in Australia
Everytime I see Americans talking about needing guns, I think about how good we have it in Australia.
Whenever an American brings up guns in my country if feels like your talking to a semi retarded person.
Everytime I see Americans talking about needing guns, I think about how good we have it in Australia.
Whenever an American brings up guns in my country if feels like your talking to a semi retarded person.
It's important to remember that pro-gun positions are so common in the US, that it is hard for many to recognize just how crazy it is in general. People hear the pro-gun arguments regularly, so they don't critically analyze them and just accept as credible since it is so widespread.
I...don't even know how to respond to this statement, but whatever.
If you're trying to find out if I, or if someone I know has been a victim of gun crime, then no. It's not really the kind of thing you need personal experience with to care about, though.
michaelius
Banned
As a European I'm jealous of culture that puts safety of normal people first instead of focusing on well being of criminals. In Europe it's usually better to get killed because if you defend yourself you will spend next 10 years in courts trying to prove you really had to use that gun.
Liamario
Banned
I totally agree, but that's an issue with regards to the laws around self defence, rather than this fascination with guns.
Phat Michael
Banned
LOL! i kinda see what you mean but i wouldnt put it that strongly. I have met a few pro gun americans here and yes, they usually arent the most balanced or open minded individuals. When i questioned the guy about why he needed guns, he asked if i was a muslim...
SapientWolf
Trucker Sexologist
Or you have a desire to be prepared for a contingency despite the low probability of it happening. Same as having a spare tire in the trunk. If you live in a high crime area then your risk is higher, so for some people it makes more sense to have a firearm at home. There were about ten times more home invasions than house fires in recent years, but are you going to berate the OP for buying a fire extinguisher?
If every American household had a firearm safely stored in an easily accessible place, and they knew how to use it, then home invasions would be too risky for even the most desperate of criminals to attempt. They are emboldened by complacency.
Do you also believe school shootings would stop if every teacher had a gun?
Can we erect a faux-Berlin Wall as well?
SapientWolf
Trucker Sexologist
Would home invasions stop completely? Of course not. Would there still be millions a year if most of the burglars ended up being shot? Probably not.
And spree shootings are a whole different category of crime. There are people that try to shoot up police stations. They have no self preservation whatsoever.
anonymous_abc
Member
Oh please, how often does that actually happen?
I'm sure in the grand scheme of things it's rare and to exchange that for US-gun culture would be insane.
Inglewood clearly.
Since you repeating that sentence. Move away from that war zone you live. Seriously.
You seem to be saying that a pro-gun position is so obviously wrong that the only reason people would support it is if they lack critical analysis.
It's this kind of attitude that makes enlightened debate practically impossible.
Ayato Kanzaki
Member
Sorry, but that line of thinking dosen't apply in reality.
Criminals almost always think that they're too good, or too lucky, to have it happening to them. It's the others that get caught, not them. They'll think you're not home, or that they can do it without waking you up, or that they can secure your gun before you hold it. But if he expect you to be armed, he'll also be more likely to bring a gun, too.
That's why an alarm and a dog are much better protection than a weapon. They will convince nine thieves out of ten to choose another house. There was an attempt on my house a few years ago. The thieves ran as soon as they heard the dog barking.
Have you ever genuinely feared an armed home invasion?
I'm glad that scenario ranks alongside 'alien abduction' and 'falling into an inter-dimensional portal' to me. Helps me sleep sounder any gun could.
SapientWolf
Trucker Sexologist
Criminals can only be lucky for so long. Which is part of the reason why crime is declining. But they're being imprisoned rather than shot.
Home protection is not an either or thing. The alarm reduces the chances of an invasion (alarmed homes are 3 times less likely to be burglarized), but once the invasion has occurred the alarm is no longer that useful. A trained dog can protect the home from invaders in the house but it is just as likely to be a victim of violence as anyone else in the home. Layered security requires the preparedness to handle a variety of situations.
There are a great number of legitimate reasons not to own a firearm. They're dangerous. They require training and care. Many people wouldn't even be comfortable using one in a home invasion. But saying that a home invasion isn't likely is not really a reason. A car crash isn't likely either, but people still feel better with extra precautions in place.
Another European here, keep coming back to this thread out of curiosity but I just end up being scared and weirded out by the whole discussion.
I mean, I can see alot of the arguments given by the 'Anti-Gun' people here not being too convincing to those who aren't opposed to them as a means of self-defense, but if you can't see how so many people thinking they are responsible gun-owners and so many people having a gun 'just in case' isn't part of the problem and reason there are so many gun-related deaths in the USA you're truly delusional.
I mean, I can see alot of the arguments given by the 'Anti-Gun' people here not being too convincing to those who aren't opposed to them as a means of self-defense, but if you can't see how so many people thinking they are responsible gun-owners and so many people having a gun 'just in case' isn't part of the problem and reason there are so many gun-related deaths in the USA you're truly delusional.
It's pro-gun guys lack of critical thinking skills that makes enlightened debate impossible, period.
If anything anti-gun people have failed to point this out effectively before, and that is what helped caused the problem get so bad in the first place.
CarpeDeezNutz
Member
Has it mostly been hypotheticals or has anyone actually been a victim of a break in? I have, someone was trying to break in to my place while I was home.
I live in a garage apt next to my parents. One night someone was messing with the garage door. At first I thought it was my dad but the shit got louder so I went to see what was up and some dude was trying to rip the door off so I yelled at him "WHAT THE FUCK ARE YOU DOING?!" He sees me and runs, like a dumbass and with an adrenaline rush I look for something to hit him with but I stop and call the police. It's better just to let them run.
I don't know about a shotgun but at the very least having a gun to shoot at the ground to scare someone, I would be down with.
I live in a garage apt next to my parents. One night someone was messing with the garage door. At first I thought it was my dad but the shit got louder so I went to see what was up and some dude was trying to rip the door off so I yelled at him "WHAT THE FUCK ARE YOU DOING?!" He sees me and runs, like a dumbass and with an adrenaline rush I look for something to hit him with but I stop and call the police. It's better just to let them run.
I don't know about a shotgun but at the very least having a gun to shoot at the ground to scare someone, I would be down with.
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