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[Ordinaryundone]

guns are the quickest and least cruel way to kill an animal, but it's so damn unfair. If you want that steak, go melee a deer, I say

Man even our ancestors didn't "melee" deer. They used bows, slings, spears, or just chased the poor thing for hours and hours until it basically ran itself to death.

The "fairness" comes into play with deer having significantly better senses than humans. It's not exactly easy to sneak up on one, or even track them if you don't know what you are doing.

 

[Baconmonk]

Alot of bullshit here. They only do that to shut people up. If it was for conservation they would only look for the animals and kill on emergency. Also they would allow natives to hunt. They often don't. It is always for acting like the great white hunter. Again, if it was for food out conservation it is different... But they only do this to stifle the outrage and annoy environmentalists.

Please elaborate on what you believe is bullshit. This reply is mostly unreadable and emotion based. Do you understand the importance of public lands and why hunters have fought to keep them from being sold off by the governments? Do you know anything about how the population of deer can decimate crop fields?

 

[elrechazado]

Most, if not all, of the populations of animals allowed to be hunted have to be carefully controlled or they become a threat to both themselves and humans. This is especially true with deer, who will breed themselves to starvation and become an outright menace to drivers.

I've never personally known a hunter that didn't actually use the meat. I'm sure they're around but they're still necessary to preventing overpopulation.

That said, I'm not surprised that such a misguided rant comes from a guy who would defend well-done steak.

Destroyed

 

[DarkKyo]

You missed a bit: We have to kill them or they die a slow painful death from disease and starvation.

Not sure why that responsibility falls on humans though. Nature has its own equilibrium thats worked just fine before recreational hunting was ever a thing.

 

[Frozenprince]

They are doing something they want to do under the false reasoning of conservation and tradition. The UK government, when the conservatives are in power, has in the past been full of such people, who want to keep it because them/their mates like it. But even Tories are increasingly against.

You quite literally have no idea what you're talking about. Conservation is why sport hunting large prey animals is a thing. Sure, people get enjoyment out of it. But who cares. Conservation is a legitimate government reason for this and if sports hunters weren't doing it, the government would need to cull the populations themselves. Because deer and other large prey animals no longer have natural predators to control their population which destroys local ecosystems.

This is basic stuff here, many posts have outlined it and even linked government reports on it.

I hunt for sport, because I enjoy it, and because the meat from 2-3 depending on the season and hpw many tags I get issued, 160-190 pound bucks lasts me 8-10 months. And saves me tons on grocery bills.

 

[RMI]

I get it for deer that our totally out of control in my area, but people who go to Africa to shoot elephants and fucking cheetahs and shit can get fucked.

Not sure why that responsibility falls on humans though. Nature has its own equilibrium thats worked just fine before recreational hunting was ever a thing.

yeah and we fucked that up when we killed a bunch of wolves and coyotes so yeah it kind of is our responsibility to fix it.

 

[Aurongel]

Guns are a pretty swift and precise method of killing an animal. I grew up in an area of NY with a huge feet overpopulation issue which caused a lot of resulting issues as a result. I think recreational hunting of overpopulated species is a good compromise because it solves a very real and quantifiable issue while also giving rural hunting types an outlet for their tradition. I think people in this debate often conflate the malicious hunting of endangered species we see in news stories with recreational deer hunting.

There's a lot of nuance to the debate that I think is lost on people who aren't from a rural area or aren't familiar with hunting laws.

 

[Violet_0]

Slapboxing a deer sounds like a quick hospital visit

I mean, if you can take down a stag in close combat, I cant even be mad. You earned it. That's far more impressive than shooting one from the seat of your truck

 

[BocoDragon]

I understand the distaste for recreational hunting, but I hope we have the same distaste for anyone benefiting from factory farm production (i.e. Anyone who buys meat from McDonalds or Safeway)

Hunters are woke about what meat is and where it comes from, and I suspect that they have a better ethical relation to the meat they consume. It's the rest of us who just buy meat at stores who are the real sinners.

 

[Tubobutts]

Not sure why that responsibility falls on humans though. Nature has its own equilibrium thats worked just fine before recreational hunting was ever a thing.

Because in some cases humans ruined the equilibrium by killing off predators.

 

[Nipo]

Fuck Deer. The bastards spread disease, cause accidents, and destroy gardens. If not hunters we need to start wolf breeding programs to kill them.

 

[Aquavelvaman]

It seems a lot more ethical to me to kill and eat a wild deer than to eat a factory farmed cow that was
raised and slaughtered in terrible conditions. Every hunter I have known had a big freezer full of deer meat and they probably eat a lot less beef than the would have if they didn't hunt.

 

[Frozenprince]

Not sure why that responsibility falls on humans though. Nature has its own equilibrium thats worked just fine before recreational hunting was ever a thing.

And we fucked that equilibrium up when we killed the vast majority of Apex predators in the continental United States.

 

[family_guy]

Fuck Deer. The bastards spread disease, cause accidents, and destroy gardens. If not hunters we need to start wolf breeding programs to kill them.

So do human beings.

 

[FyreWulff]

Not sure why that responsibility falls on humans though. Nature has its own equilibrium thats worked just fine before recreational hunting was ever a thing.

We fucked it up in the first place by killing all the wolves and other predators.

If we want to save the wolves and re-intro them to the food chain we have to keep their food from going extinct as well.

 

[DarkKyo]

yeah and we fucked that up when we killed a bunch of wolves and coyotes so yeah it kind of is our responsibility to fix it.

Maybe we should just stop killing all animals, both deer and wolf. The excuse of "well we killed these, now we gotta kill these" is absolutely stupid.

 

[Hoo-doo]

So do human beings.

I can't possibly roll my eyes harder at this reply. I'd be blind.

 

[Nipo]

So do human beings.

Sure. I'm cool with deer fighting back. Strong do what they want weak suffer what they must and all that.

 

[Shao Kahn on the Lawn]

Maybe we should just stop killing all animals, both deer and wolf. The excuse of "well we killed these, now we gotta kill these" is absolutely stupid.

Just so we're clear here: you'd rather that deer starve and rot in the woods than allow them to be carefully culled/harvested in a way that ensures the remaining population lives comfortably? What kind of logic is that?

 

[Frozenprince]

Maybe we should just stop killing all animals, both deer and wolf. The excuse of "well we killed these, now we gotta kill these" is absolutely stupid.

This is literally how nature functions. It's too late to fix the issue with "other animals" we can't go back in time and unkill the wolf and mountain lion population. So now we need to assume the role of apex predators otherwise their population will be unhealthy for their own environment and survival.

There is no other solution to this now other than killing them to keep their population sustainable.

 

[Baconmonk]

I mean, if you can take down a stag in close combat, I cant even be mad. You earned it. That's far more impressive than shooting one from the seat of your truck

Also an incredibly cruel and agonizing way for the animal to die. Because of the increased stress on the animal the meat is ruined, and you're likely bleeding out from the combat. Congratulations on killing a deer in hand to hand combat to prove your ego and waste everything useful you could harvest from the animal.

Or you could shoot it and it dies immediately, never feels a thing. You can go home, belly intact and make some of the best goddamn bolognese sauce from the meat. Your choice.

 

[Baconmonk]

Maybe we should just stop killing all animals, both deer and wolf. The excuse of "well we killed these, now we gotta kill these" is absolutely stupid.

Wolves broken into people's houses and killed their babies.

We murdered some, domesticated the others. Seems about right to me.

 

[HStallion]

The person you did your pithy response to that I picked up on is called "PipefishUK".

You know, the UK. Where fox hunting was a thing. Where I also happen to be from and grew up in a town where they had an annual hunt. So where views of hunting are coloured by fox hunting.

You mean fox hunting that was banned a decade ago and you keep bringing up like it happens today. Yet again, judging everything by the standards of Fox Hunting is silly as hell but continue to do so and I'll just keep rolling my eyes.

 

[bill0527]

I'm with you on trophy hunting.

Hunting for conseravation, population control, and for food though is absolutely necessary in some parts of the United States.

 

[entremet]

I'm with you on trophy hunting.

Hunting for conseravation, population control, and for food though is absolutely necessary in some parts of the United States.

Many conservation efforts cannot be possible with trophy hunting, at least in 3rd world countries.

 

[Frozenprince]

Controlled trophy hunting is often the only way most African nations can even afford any type of conservation efforts to save what population of endangered species are left

 

[Greddleok]

Not sure why that responsibility falls on humans though. Nature has its own equilibrium thats worked just fine before recreational hunting was ever a thing.

Because we fucked it up by killing the predators.

 

[dalyr95]

We don't have a huge hunting culture in the UK and our deer haven't tried to 'breed themselves to starvation'.

I think hunting for fun is wrong. I hate it when people try and dress it up as conservation.

Richmond Park in London has deer and shuts down every year for two weeks for a cull.

There are 2 culls in Richmond Park – the males in February and the females in November. The cull is necessary in order to maintain the number of deer in the park and prevent overgrazing which would ultimately result in starvation. It is also the reason why Royal Parks’ herds are in excellent condition.

------------------

As a member of the British Deer Society, The Royal Parks takes deer welfare very seriously. Deer populations are actively managed to keep herds at a sustainable size.

If animals were not removed, food would become scarce and more animals would ultimately suffer. Without population control there would be other welfare issues such as low body fat, malnutrition and high incidence of death from exposure to cold in winter. Attempting to maintain too many deer within a restricted park area would soon lead to a build-up of parasites and other pathogens causing disease in the deer.

The Royal Parks does not administer contraceptives to deer through feed or injections. There are no contraceptives licensed for use in the UK. These techniques are still in the experimental stage in both Europe and the USA and there are concerns that contraceptives introduced through feed and not consumed by the deer herd would impact negatively on other species. To inject contraceptives requires a high degree of human intervention which is highly stressful for the deer as they are not able to be herded like farmed animals. In consultation with our veterinary advisor, however, we are carefully monitoring the worldwide development of technology to limit deer populations and will continue to keep our policies for the management of deer under review. Where the opportunity arises to move deer to other deer parks we do so. This opportunity is rare given that wild populations of all species of deer are increasing nationally.

The British Deer Society and the Deer Initiative of England and Wales fully endorse humane culling as best practice in deer herd management and The Royal Parks is an expert manager of enclosed wild deer herds. The deer in the Royal Parks are under veterinary supervision and all aspects of their welfare are monitored regularly

http://www.frp.org.uk/news/1308-deer-cull-royal-parks-advice

 

[RMI]

Maybe we should just stop killing all animals, both deer and wolf. The excuse of "well we killed these, now we gotta kill these" is absolutely stupid.

sounds like you've got it all figured out!

wolf populations are recovering but this shit doesn't happen overnight. people made bad decisions in the past and it takes time to fix things.

 

[Greddleok]

Maybe we should just stop killing all animals, both deer and wolf. The excuse of "well we killed these, now we gotta kill these" is absolutely stupid.

I'd love to have such a simple mind as yours.

 

[HStallion]

sounds like you've got it all figured out!

wolf populations are recovering but this shit doesn't happen overnight. people made bad decisions in the past and it takes time to fix things.

In an ideal world, or at least the USA, wolves would be returned to all their natural hunting grounds and would do a far better job at balancing out the ecosystem than human hunters but there is a massive amount of push back, even in places where the wolves have been allowed to flourish. Often time ranchers and others will kill them, poison them and so on. Not that they don't have their rights and concerns but I think having wolves is a far better solution for everyone than not. One day though...

 

[manueldelalas]

Most, if not all, of the populations of animals allowed to be hunted have to be carefully controlled or they become a threat to both themselves and humans. This is especially true with deer, who will breed themselves to starvation and become an outright menace to drivers.

I've never personally known a hunter that didn't actually use the meat. I'm sure they're around but they're still necessary to preventing overpopulation.

That said, I'm not surprised that such a misguided rant comes from a guy who would defend well-done steak.

Underrated post.

 

[Summer Haze]

We don't have a huge hunting culture in the UK and our deer haven't tried to 'breed themselves to starvation'.

I think hunting for fun is wrong. I hate it when people try and dress it up as conservation.

But a lot of the time it literally is for conservation. Regardless of why the hunter wants to do it, it needs to be done in some parts of the world.

 

[Rocketz]

It seems a lot more ethical to me to kill and eat a wild deer than to eat a factory farmed cow that was
raised and slaughtered in terrible conditions. Every hunter I have known had a big freezer full of deer meat and they probably eat a lot less beef than the would have if they didn't hunt.

Growing up I almost never had beef unless it was out at a restaurant. It was always deer. We have 2 freezers at home for this.

 

[Sulik2]

You shoot the deer or they starve to death and cause problems on roads. While I do think hunters should eat the meat, there is definitely reasons to cull populations of animals at times. We've killed all the natural predators so they must be hunted. And that is not even discussing invasive species or feral cats and dogs which are huge problems in other countries. Animals died and are killed by other animals all the time. There is nothing fundamentally wrong with killing animals as long as it is done humanely.

 

[Violet_0]

Also an incredibly cruel and agonizing way for the animal to die. Because of the increased stress on the animal the meat is ruined, and you're likely bleeding out from the combat. Congratulations on killing a deer in hand to hand combat to prove your ego and waste everything useful you could harvest from the animal.

Or you could shoot it and it dies immediately, never feels a thing. You can go home, belly intact and make some of the best goddamn bolognese sauce from the meat. Your choice.

Man even our ancestors didn't "melee" deer. They used bows, slings, spears, or just chased the poor thing for hours and hours until it basically ran itself to death.

The "fairness" comes into play with deer having significantly better senses than humans. It's not exactly easy to sneak up on one, or even track them if you don't know what you are doing.

I never said it was practical or sane. Any reasonable person would use a gun of course

guns are the quickest and least cruel way to kill an animal

I merely dislike how helpless the animal is

 

[Theonik]

Depends on the game. People who do foxhunting? Yeah that's just bloodsport. Killing a rabbit and eating it though I don't see why not. If anything what's cowardly is buying slaughtered animals from a store and refusing to accept the killing involved. If you're fine with that you should be fine with hunting.

 

[Sgt.Pepper]

They really should control the hunting on predators. I don't know how Coyotes still exists. I'll admit my information comes from Animal Planet, one show of hunting and they mentioned they hunted wolves/coyotes too much then deers became a problem.

All in all, all of this seems like a man-made problem.

 

[spazchicken]

I've decided that I should never do it but I'd be lying if I said it didn't look fun.

 

[TFGB]

I agree with the OP. Hunting as a 'sport' or for 'trophies' requires a certain mentality...one which I abhor.

Every creature has as much right to be on this planet as we do.

 

[Doc_Drop]

In an ideal world, or at least the USA, wolves would be returned to all their natural hunting grounds and would do a far better job at balancing out the ecosystem than human hunters but there is a massive amount of push back, even in places where the wolves have been allowed to flourish. Often time ranchers and others will kill them, poison them and so on. Not that they don't have their rights and concerns but I think having wolves is a far better solution for everyone than not. One day though...

Problem is that humans have encroached on too much of the land, predators cover far to big a space to live in any harmony with people. Also, like humans predators source the easiest forms of survival, so they'll naturally gravitate to easy to kill livestock rather than hunt in the open wild. Humans are more likely to hunt the difficult stuff than predators

 

[Lys Skygge]

I make sure to give the deer a gun to even out the odds

Spoiler

there is nothing wrong with hunting. We've been doing it for thousands of years

Edit: trophy hunting is pretty shitty though.

 

[Baraka in the White House]

Look, I'm about as anti redneck/macho/sportsguyfuckyeah as they come but hunting is fine. Deer and boar are probably the most commonly hunted animals and both can become dangerous pests if allowed to multiply unchecked.

 

[Theonik]

They really should control the hunting on predators. I don't know how Coyotes still exists. I'll admit my information comes from Animal Planet, one show of hunting and they mentioned they hunted wolves/coyotes too much then deers became a problem.

All in all, all of this seems like a man-made problem.

Well. We hunt predators because they threatened livestock. The problem with such legislation is it pisses off farmers that is still a key voting block. Enforcing it is harder too.
And yes that does mean that deer and other herbivores end up being overpopulated. Re-introducing wolves isn't a solution either, since they'd preferentially hit livestock.

 

[TFGB]

Deer and boar are probably the most commonly hunted animals and both can become dangerous pests if allowed to multiply unchecked.

Much like humans really then!

 

[HStallion]

Problem is that humans have encroached on too much of the land, predators cover far to big a space to live in any harmony with people. Also, like humans predators source the easiest forms of survival, so they'll naturally gravitate to easy to kill livestock rather than hunt in the open wild. Humans are more likely to hunt the difficult stuff than predators

Actually studies have shown that Wolves that have been introduced have adapted pretty well to human encroachment. Then there are CoyWolves or whatever the Dog/Wolf/Coyote hybrids are called these days that are filling that niche in other areas of the country but they may a bigger problem because of how smart and bold they are.

 

[Theonik]

Much like humans really then!

Giver are deer ar-15s.

 

[dragonelite]

They really should control the hunting on predators. I don't know how Coyotes still exists. I'll admit my information comes from Animal Planet, one show of hunting and they mentioned they hunted wolves/coyotes too much then deers became a problem.

All in all, all of this seems like a man-made problem.

The lower the population the bigger the litter a mother coyote lays.

I get a lot of hunting info from the Joe Rogan Experience podcast, usually i skip the hunters ones, but those with Steven Rinella are always interesting.

 

[Doc_Drop]

Actually studies have shown that Wolves that have been introduced have adapted pretty well to human encroachment. Then there are CoyWolves or whatever the Dog/Wolf/Coyote hybrids are called these days that are filling that niche in other areas of the country but they may a bigger problem because of how smart and bold they are.

Interesting, it would also depend on the land this is being tested in also I guess.

 

[BibiMaghoo]

I'd have no issue with hunters gathering in an area to go and hunt animals due to be culled with poison or trapped in cages and left to starve to death, which happens here with both badgers and gray squirrels. British Deer are at their highest level for a thousand years due to having no natural predators left, and again could be hunted instead of simply culled.

Allowing people to take sport in a task that is required anyway is fine with me and could be beneficial if handled responsibly by a government authority who selects areas and species based on population, genetic diversity and environmental impact.

People that pay some company in Africa 50k to go shoot lions can fuck right off though. That is sick.

As a random aside, permission to reintroduce Lynx to the UK is being sought, and they do hunt deer.