family_guy
Member
Am I wrong? Let's be real. The greatest threat to man and the planet is man.
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Recreational Hunters Make Me Sick
- Thread starter Bay Maximus
- Start date
Am I wrong? Let's be real. The greatest threat to man and the planet is man.
IggyChooChoo
Member
This is nuts. Every suburb and exurb east of the Mississippi is full of deer. No way in hell can we introduce wolf packs to control them. Hunters are the only humane way.
I'm 43. For approximately three quarters of my life - and all the years I lived in the UK - fox hunting was not only a thing, it happened in my own home town. Even now the Tories blab on about bringing it back.
We don't all suddenly have collective amnesia of the times before it was banned. Like it or not, fox hunting is what people in the UK generally think of when hunting is brought up. Not only because of the years of controversy when it was legal, but also the massive amount of debate leading up to its controversial (because of being only the seventh time the Parliament Acts had been used to force through lesigslation) passing in the Commons and also the continual threats from the Tories to relax or even reverse the legislation.
These days I live in Sweden where hunting for food is a lot more common.
I didn't say dropping wolves into the middle of cities was the solution and no one else did either. That said you will most likely be dealing with Coywolves like many other places as they're far bolder and smarter than regular wolves and not at all afraid of urban areas.
Machine
Member
In Michigan, the first day of deer season should be an official state holiday considering how many people take the day off work. I don't have a single problem with hunting if you eat what you kill or if it's part of a wildlife management program. Trophy hunting and killing endangered species is inexcusable bullshit though.
Are you serious? The few people I know who hunt are very far from being rich. Sure they enjoy the sport of it, but they also have a seasonal supply of food.
My understanding from growing up in California and taking hunting safety courses in California is this:
--Licenses and stamps: The license lets you hunt only a few animals and it is required to hunt anything. The stamps are added onto a license and enable you to hunt anything specific animals or groups of animals. There are separate stamps for ducks, deer, elk, bear, etc.
--Proceeds from hunting licenses($$) and stamps($$) fund groups like the department of fish and game. These groups manage the populations -- in some cases repopulating lakes with fish, maintaining trails, reservoirs, and general recreational areas (yes, if you 'experience' the outdoors there is a good chance hunting fees paid for it).
--You can only hunt specific animals in specific seasons.
--Hunters report the animals they take in a season. Additionally, biologists survey animals in regions.
--DFG using weather, hunting reports, biologist reports, and other variables to figure out how the populations of various animals are doing from season to season. This information is used to set future tag limits (e.g. you can only take 1 deer this year or you can take 5 pigs etc.). The DFG is supposed to set these tag limits so that the animals that are taken are animals that are expected to die from starvation and disease.
There are far worse things out there that we all tolerate on a regular basis than hunting. That doesn't make hunting right but it does beg the question of why you are upset about hunting and posting about it instead of issues that have a much larger impact on animal suffering.
--Licenses and stamps: The license lets you hunt only a few animals and it is required to hunt anything. The stamps are added onto a license and enable you to hunt anything specific animals or groups of animals. There are separate stamps for ducks, deer, elk, bear, etc.
--Proceeds from hunting licenses($$) and stamps($$) fund groups like the department of fish and game. These groups manage the populations -- in some cases repopulating lakes with fish, maintaining trails, reservoirs, and general recreational areas (yes, if you 'experience' the outdoors there is a good chance hunting fees paid for it).
--You can only hunt specific animals in specific seasons.
--Hunters report the animals they take in a season. Additionally, biologists survey animals in regions.
--DFG using weather, hunting reports, biologist reports, and other variables to figure out how the populations of various animals are doing from season to season. This information is used to set future tag limits (e.g. you can only take 1 deer this year or you can take 5 pigs etc.). The DFG is supposed to set these tag limits so that the animals that are taken are animals that are expected to die from starvation and disease.
There are far worse things out there that we all tolerate on a regular basis than hunting. That doesn't make hunting right but it does beg the question of why you are upset about hunting and posting about it instead of issues that have a much larger impact on animal suffering.
Killing an animal in the wild vs keeping it in captivity and stressing it out for a long period of time
Controlling populations
Knowing that most hunting in the US/Canada is regulated and it's not just randomly killing everything unless it's a pest
Having to work for your meat and using all of the animal product without industry adding bloat to the process
How hunting license proceeds benefits local conservation efforts motivated by people that live on the land, want to keep hunting so they try not to overkill, etc
This is different from prize hunting/poaching obv
Controlling populations
Knowing that most hunting in the US/Canada is regulated and it's not just randomly killing everything unless it's a pest
Having to work for your meat and using all of the animal product without industry adding bloat to the process
How hunting license proceeds benefits local conservation efforts motivated by people that live on the land, want to keep hunting so they try not to overkill, etc
This is different from prize hunting/poaching obv
I'm not talking about your run of the mill country bumpkin walking around in the forest killing Deer (although I also find that somewhat distasteful), I'm talking about this shit:
Vincent Alexander
Member
It would only be humorous if they were aware about the fisheries, but unfortunately, not many are. Or rather, not enough people.
This thread isn't really about this very specific, very abhorrent edge case. Arguing to abolish all hunting because of a few rich pricks pursuing trophy kills is being ridiculous. Those people are indefensible and no one in this thread is arguing in their defense.I'm not talking about your run of the mill country bumpkin walking around in the forest killing Deer (although I also find that somewhat distasteful), I'm talking about this shit:
The majority of hunters worldwide are very, very, very far from rich. Hence why they need the meat.
Coyotes are terrible because they kill livestock, and breed very quickly.
I'm not talking about your run of the mill country bumpkin walking around in the forest killing Deer (although I also find that somewhat distasteful), I'm talking about this shit:
And I'm willing to bet in most of those cases the animals were very old and close to death. African countries charge crazy prices for trophy hunts on older rare animals that are dying anyways to fund conservation efforts. Yes its gross that humans just want to kill rare creatures for fun, but the situation is more complicated then it seems on the surface most of the time.
IggyChooChoo
Member
Massively increasing packs of coywolves in the suburbs and exurbs is no better a solution and no more realistic. No disrespect, but have you even been to the US?
BannedEpisode
Member
The problem in this thread is that one side is putting all hunting into a single basket. Deer, boar, lions, endangered rhinos.
The other side is defending the practice of hunting deer/boar for the purpose of using their meat and assisting in conservation.
There are shades of grey. I highly doubt anyone in this thread is advocating the killing of elephants and lions for funsies.
I live in the Midwest and have never met a hunter who doesn't use all the meat on a deer they kill. Anyone who would do that would get serious bad karma. In Minnesota, if deer aren't hunted they starve and Wander into roads.
The other side is defending the practice of hunting deer/boar for the purpose of using their meat and assisting in conservation.
There are shades of grey. I highly doubt anyone in this thread is advocating the killing of elephants and lions for funsies.
I live in the Midwest and have never met a hunter who doesn't use all the meat on a deer they kill. Anyone who would do that would get serious bad karma. In Minnesota, if deer aren't hunted they starve and Wander into roads.
It's almost as if we shouldn't have hunted the UK's predators to extinction. Maybe toffs and cunts should just leave foxes alone instead, they're known to prey on fawn.
I dunno, if you kill an elephant that makes you a horrible cretin. I don't care how old it was or whether its life was somehow a raffle ticket for future conservation. Killing that animal makes you the worst.
Human Resources
Member
The animal kingdom is mostly baby eaters and cannibals, but whatever makes you sleep better at night.
I was born in the US and have lived here my entire life and have been to most every single state and major city outside of Alaska. I didn't say CoyWolves were a solution, I said you'll be dealing with them like many other places in the US as in they're going to be a problem.
I'm not going to defend people like that. They're gross. There's also no way they're eating those (often close to endangered) animals.
Dude Abides
Banned
I don't know why you'd be willing to bet that. One of the problems with recreational hunting as conservation angle is that unlike natural predators and disease, hunters can kill a strong healthy animal almost as easily as they could a sick or old one.
Fox hunting still happens in the UK, the ban didn't make it go away - they're just not allowed to have a pack of dogs maul the fox to death but are allowed to take two dogs to chase it out instead. This is the sport of Britain's elite and untouchable, so I guess even if a fox was mauled to death by one of the dogs nothing would happen.
The key difference is that as humans we are far more aware of our own impact and can take measures to mitigate the damage. There is resistance, of course, but we are trying. The same can not be said about wild animals and it's neither funny nor insightful when people like you or darkkyo think you've got yourselves a 'checkmate' moment by trying to say we're no different.
Yay a hunting thread with mostly folks who never lived rural.
My family hunts, everyone I grew up with hunts. You pay a huge fee to hunt, which goes toward the conservation of forests and wild lands. In Oregon, you pay like 200 to enter a lottery for a tag, if you don't get one, you just donated 200 dollars to Forest services. And people do this happily every year. We always eat everything and even tan the hides if they are good quality.
Also, I'd you've ever wanted see someone want to literally want to murder someone, go poach in front of a hunter. They take that shit seriously, and call in rangers if there's even a wiff of something sketch going on.
Hunters do more to protect animals than keyboard warriors do.
Also, anyone who kills for trophies and not meat is an asshole and all hunters I know treat them as such.
My family hunts, everyone I grew up with hunts. You pay a huge fee to hunt, which goes toward the conservation of forests and wild lands. In Oregon, you pay like 200 to enter a lottery for a tag, if you don't get one, you just donated 200 dollars to Forest services. And people do this happily every year. We always eat everything and even tan the hides if they are good quality.
Also, I'd you've ever wanted see someone want to literally want to murder someone, go poach in front of a hunter. They take that shit seriously, and call in rangers if there's even a wiff of something sketch going on.
Hunters do more to protect animals than keyboard warriors do.
Also, anyone who kills for trophies and not meat is an asshole and all hunters I know treat them as such.
balladofwindfishes
Member
We killed the bears, wolves, mountain lions, etc, and now we have a responsibility to make sure ducks, deer, etc don't overpopulate and ruin habitats.
The act of hunting and the funding generated from it are important aspects of conservation. It's a well regulated sport and it strikes a great balance between doing what's best for the environment and doing what humans want to do for fun.
The act of hunting and the funding generated from it are important aspects of conservation. It's a well regulated sport and it strikes a great balance between doing what's best for the environment and doing what humans want to do for fun.
Yes because they're not cute.
When I've been lake fishing there is a limit on how small the fish can be. Anything under 10" had to be thrown back.
Hell, there are molded rulers on the coolers we used so we could measure fish that we couldn't just eyeball.
Zen_Arcade
Banned
I would assume it's because humans fucked up that equilibrium by moving in to these places and as a result, it messes with the ecosystem.
Hoya Destroyer
Member
People who kill animals only to boost their own ego, are scum. It'd be like me bragging about beating up a toddler.
I dont know enough about hunting for conservation, to comment on that.
I dont know enough about hunting for conservation, to comment on that.
I'm not talking about your run of the mill country bumpkin walking around in the forest killing Deer (although I also find that somewhat distasteful), I'm talking about this shit:
Except the part where by hunting said animals they're putting massive amounts of money towards conservation efforts.
Shockingly, a lot of things in the world get more complicated than "this is good/bad".
Yeah, same in Tennessee. Know family that hunts also. I'm not for sport game hunting really, but I don't discount the reasons for it being legal here.
Plus, its kind of amazing that when deer get hit or run into cars here, you just have to wait a few minutes for the word to get out from a passerby before people come down to harvest it. Definitely not a waste here. Poachers and hunting regulation breakers get a hammer dropped on them with a quickness. They might as well move out of the county.
Jerry
Member
Yes. Your point?
When I was real young, we were extremely poor. My dad worked two jobs and my mom worked nights stocking shelves at K-Mart. For food, 90% of what we eat my dad either grew in the garden, caught out of rivers and lakes, or shot. If not for hunting, we would have gone hungry a lot.
Aside from that, hunting is one of the best conservation efforts out there. It generates TONS of money for state conservation programs, and it helps to keep populations in check. Even the trophy hunters in Africa tend to have way more positives than negatives. For a lot of those safari hunts, they let them take older males that no longer mate, but they compete with the rest of the population for food. Taking them from the herds is sadly necessary due to limited habitat.
Poachers are scum. They are outright scum. But hunting legally? It's pretty necessary and it has tons of positive benefits for the economy and state's conservation efforts.
Aside from that, hunting is one of the best conservation efforts out there. It generates TONS of money for state conservation programs, and it helps to keep populations in check. Even the trophy hunters in Africa tend to have way more positives than negatives. For a lot of those safari hunts, they let them take older males that no longer mate, but they compete with the rest of the population for food. Taking them from the herds is sadly necessary due to limited habitat.
Poachers are scum. They are outright scum. But hunting legally? It's pretty necessary and it has tons of positive benefits for the economy and state's conservation efforts.
TFGB
Member
My comment was rather tongue in cheek, and personally I don't see this topic as some sort of 'game of chess'.
What a rather bizarre inference to make.
It's actually not bizarre if you've been following the thread.
Gunblade47
Neo Member
I'm not talking about your run of the mill country bumpkin walking around in the forest killing Deer (although I also find that somewhat distasteful), I'm talking about this shit:
If I'm not mistaken the lion was actually illegally poached in Zimbabwe where they basically lead an old and loved lion out of a freaking national reserve
and shot it dead point blank.
I'm not defending that shit. That guy is no better than a poacher and should be treated as such by the authorities.
I'm gonna echo some others in this thread... I would never be able to do it but "culling the herd" is crucial when it comes to various species. Over population is a very real thing and it causes suffering within their own species. Things like deer overpopulation causes significant damage on farms/apple farms, and when the forage is low it hurts other populations and worse they start dying from starvation. Again I would never be able to do it, but it's a necessary evil.
that being said "trophy hunting" for the likes of lions and whatnot is not cool in my book.
that being said "trophy hunting" for the likes of lions and whatnot is not cool in my book.
I agree when it comes to trophy hunting, posing with dead animals is BS and most of those "hunters" are just showed where to point and shoot like lazy fucks, but if things are regulated correctly you kind of need hunters. I hunted turkey and deer when I was younger, but followed every rule in the book and actually ended up only killing three ducks and one turkey over that time. Never even saw a deer, probably for the better.
Yeah =( And having a deep freezer stocked with food was a dream for a lot of people.
I remember my parents and a few neighbors buying a cow to have butchered and dividing everything up. We moved to the city afterwards and lived a much better life, but I look back now kind of fondly because it was a communal effort and wasn't too wasteful.
TFGB
Member
It is considering that you directed your comment towards me after I've made only two posts on the subject.
Prophaniti
Banned
First of all controlling animal populations is necessary.
Second of all big game hunts on reservations are what pay for conservation efforts. Shoot 1 lion and save 20. How much have you donated this year to save elephants and lions and such? If its not the $100,000 some dentist pays to kill a few animals then stfu.
Second of all big game hunts on reservations are what pay for conservation efforts. Shoot 1 lion and save 20. How much have you donated this year to save elephants and lions and such? If its not the $100,000 some dentist pays to kill a few animals then stfu.
ThisGuy
Member
Lol, that's the truth of it. These fools do nothing for wildlife but pretend to care. Oh, then they turn around and support horrible farming practices. Fucking tools.
Theonik
Member
It depends. Illegal poachers definitely. But parks offer this as a service to rich visitors and use the money to fund conservation efforts. They tend to be more responsible about this though a big problem has always been corruption especially in the countries these parks are.
also half the secret of hunting is having a reason to be away from everyone for a day <_<
I used to hunt all the time (don't do it now for cost reasons) and half the reason was just to have my thoughts to myself and checking out nature.
Also for the record I still have zero kills to my name. The one time I had a good shot on an animal I pulled the trigger and just heard the click click because the safety was still on. My stepdad is in his late 50s and I think he has two total deer and a few birds.
Puck Beaverton
Banned
As long as you eat the animal it is all good
Yep. That's the reason I would bow hunt. Have to be silent, and still, and just be with nature. I never got anything, but honestly, I wasn't really trying. I'm a bit of a wuss and I'd like cry if I got one, even as I was field dressing it for food lol.
"*Sob* Thank you for your sacrifice, Noble creature!"
yep see my edit. most hunting days ended with some can plinking and a drive home.
and everyone i know after a kill has a moment where they thank the animal.
Widdle Puppy
Banned
Hunting culture in the USA is trashy and they all dress like shit. I can't stand that shrub camouflage pattern they all wear even when they aren't hunting. Go into a waffle house in rural Virginia, Pennsylvania, Kentucky, etc... They all are wearing it and look like fucking idiots.