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Red Steel new video ! [Must See]

How's the Wii's Z-Buffer? Is it competent for screenshots? If it's not, I can see why they do this... though, I would like them downsample their screens to 480p.
 
omg rite said:
yeah man, i had high hopes for the Wiimote too. that's why i'm basing my opinion on a couple videos i saw online of a launch game!
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Fair point, but the fact that the nunchuk setup can't be put to "perfected" use by launch and indeed has to be fiddled with makes me think it's not as untuitive as I originally believed.
 
Battersea Power Station said:
Fair point, but the fact that the nunchuk setup can't be put to "perfected" use by launch and indeed has to be fiddled with makes me think it's not as untuitive as I originally believed.
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What? We already know the Wiimote is capable of pin-point pixel accuracy. Heck, Wii Sports Baseball and Wii Play Shooting together prove that the Wiimote works as advertised. It's just that for whatever reason, some developers are choosing to make this dead zone for turning big as hell. That's a product of the software design, not the actual hardware.

It probably works fine for Metroid due to its inherent nature, but Red Steel's customization options will hopefully make things a bit easier. Although RS didn't look too bad in the video. Call of Duty 3 actually seems to handle the controls quite nicely.
 
until they atleast start giving the games options to have PC style cursor movement, FPS with Wiimote can still be intuitive, but nowhere near as precise as it can be.
 
Or Madden Wii during play choosing. It's pixel perfect. The only reason they are using this 'bounding box' is because this is not a mouse. To center the cursor YOU must put it back to the middle of the screen. With the box, it gives you some leeway with your hands.

Not saying a fixed cursor can't work. Maybe with a huge deadzone.
 
GoldenEye 007 said:
What? We already know the Wiimote is capable of pin-point pixel accuracy. Heck, Wii Sports Baseball and Wii Play Shooting together prove that the Wiimote works as advertised. It's just that for whatever reason, some developers are choosing to make this dead zone for turning big as hell. That's a product of the software design, not the actual hardware.

It probably works fine for Metroid due to its inherent nature, but Red Steel's customization options will hopefully make things a bit easier. Although RS didn't look too bad in the video. Call of Duty 3 actually seems to handle the controls quite nicely.
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until they atleast start giving the games options to have PC style cursor movement
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You would not want per-pixel aiming with the Wii-mote, however, as there is nothing to support your hand while holding it. The screen would be jittering all over the place. Also, there is the old issue of turning the camera around. You can pick up a mouse and reset its position in order to keep moving, but we know that the Wii does not function like that.

There's no way they could simply treat the controller like a mouse here.
 
Of course, it's pixel-perfect, dudes. But so far that only works "great" for light-gun-style games and mechanics, which are limited in their fun.

Someone has yet to perfect it in a true FPS environment.
 
Its not changed my view on the game. I doubt I'll be buying this unless it gets really good reviews.
 
What I don't like at all about the sword mechanic is that it's completly separated from the core gameplay, it's like a mini game they tried to put on the game.
 
agent069 said:
What I don't like at all about the sword mechanic is that it's completly separated from the core gameplay, it's like a mini game they tried to put on the game.
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Yeah, it has a tacked on feel to it.
 
I'm still concerned about the controls. I like the idea of the game and even the videos show some impressive visuals but I am worried that the controls may limit my experience. I love Ubi games and plan on buying Splinter Cell Wii but Red Steel feels a bit like stepping into uncharted waters. I guess they still have a bit to go but I hope it turns out well because I'd love to have a solid FPS on day one.
 
Looks f*cking awesome!! I mean its still a shooting game (OH NOES ITS SHOOTING LIKE IN TEH OTHER GAMES!), but there seems to be a number of fun little additions (flipping over tables for cover, swordfighting, lots of interactive stuff to blow up), and the graphics look very well done.

Of course its not as visually impressive as some upcoming PC/360/PS3 games, but guess what? Becuase I'm informed about the hardware capabilities of each of these perspective platforms, my expectations as to how the graphics should look have adjusted accordingly! So I don't have an excuse to make snide, sideways comments about the game looking
"like crap" or throwing around terms like "Quake 3 engine" etc!! Amazing, is it not??

The game looks above and beyond anything that could be accomplished on an X-Box or GC (the combination of effects, detail, and smooth framerate would be difficult..something would have to be sacraficed on a last gen console), but obviously you could port it to 360 and run it at 720p with double the detail. But given my knowledge of what the Wii is capable of, the game is impressive, and while it wouldn't be the most impressive looking game on the 360, I dare say that with some increased texture resolution and a bump to 720p, the game would probably sell quite healthily.

So dead all that "it loogs likgeh shit" talk please..
 
Turning speed is still a major turn off here. In the first video it's not terrible, but there are parts where it just looks tedious. I pray that can be fixed with the sensitivity. But at the same time, I don't want things zinging everywhere too fast. I wish the sensitivity would automattically rise whenever you tried turning around, or something like that.

Graphics look good enough. And it's good to see more guns
 
dark10x said:
You would not want per-pixel aiming with the Wii-mote, however, as there is nothing to support your hand while holding it. The screen would be jittering all over the place.
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i can hold a lazer pointer pretty still, im sure i can do the same with the Wiimote.

as for the other technical stuff, i know the controller is still new to devs, but there should be ways around that.
 
dark10x said:
You would not want per-pixel aiming with the Wii-mote, however, as there is nothing to support your hand while holding it. The screen would be jittering all over the place. Also, there is the old issue of turning the camera around. You can pick up a mouse and reset its position in order to keep moving, but we know that the Wii does not function like that.

There's no way they could simply treat the controller like a mouse here.
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Right. I'm just saying the capability is there. I think it should be an option, though, for people that can keep the jittering under control. Since it would not take much to turn around or anything, there should be no problems with turning your hands in weird positions or anything.

But as far as the current setups, they're there. Those are the type that would probably work the best for the vast majority of people and games. The only thing that needs improvement is the size of that bounding box. Make it smaller(like a few centimeters rather than the edge of the screen), and all is golden. You'd also make it for when you get further from the box when turning, the turning speed increases..... vice versa for wanting to slow down and go back to center.
 
After seeing the five youtube videos, I must say the graphics look pretty good. In fact, it's the thing I like most bpout the game right now. The first video shows a totally different setup for the control, which seems to work much better than the others'. I don't know what to think, except that i won't be getting this at launch.
 
After watching the other vids on Jeux-France, I have to say that the game looks great... it just does. Crisp textures, some nice touches and great particle effects. It's the gameplay the looks pretty ordinary with nothing that particularly holds my attention.
 
This is why full control sensetivity customization is needed for all FPS games on Wii, not just 2, or 3 options. I want full control of how big the bounding box is, from 1-2 centimeters, to the whole friggin screen if I want. Full control of the deadzone, too.
 
GoldenEye 007 said:
Right. I'm just saying the capability is there. I think it should be an option, though, for people that can keep the jittering under control. Since it would not take much to turn around or anything, there should be no problems with turning your hands in weird positions or anything.
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I don't think that's true. Unless they make it ULTRA sensitive, you could not easily turn the view around much less keeping turning (for circle strafing). It would be awful.
 
dark10x said:
I don't think that's true. Unless they make it ULTRA sensitive, you could not easily turn the view around much less keeping turning (for circle strafing). It would be awful.
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Yeah, it would need to be really sensitive. I mean, no more than a few centimeters left and right to do a compete 360. With my mouse and CounterStrike, that is actually how I have it setup. Only a few(4-5) centimeters in either direction gets me to where I need to go. Circle strafing and all. Of course, the advantage there is that you are on a surface so things stay pretty steady. It's possible, but something reserved only for experts, I'm sure.
 
RSP said:
I can't get over the look of the arm swinging trough the screen. it just looks stupid
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Yeah, it does look silly... why'd they put it so far out? Would've worked with just the hand & gun, I think.

And Dark, turning could could work the same way it does now. turn the wiimote left to turn left, bring it back to stop turning... only problem is, we could get lazy at times, and have our character just spinning around for a few seconds.
 
MaddenNFL64 said:
Yeah, it does look silly... why'd they put it so far out? Would've worked with just the hand & gun, I think.

And Dark, turning could could work the same way it does now. turn the wiimote left to turn left, bring it back to stop turning... only problem is, we could get lazy at times, and have our character just spinning around for a few seconds.
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It only works now due to the fact that the cross hair is not attached to the camera movement directly. If moving the Wii-mote were to actually move the camera and not a cross-hair, how could the system determine whether or not you want to keep moving in any one direction? There is no center point for the controller itself. Any movement, no matter how small, would be enough to send the camera moving in one direction. Changing directions would not stop it, but rather, start moving it in ANOTHER direction.

The only possibly would be to make it extremely sensitive.
 
That looks just awesome. Don't understand some of those negative reactions.

Best looking Wii Game so far.
Yeah even better than Zelda
Hit me if you like
 
Shit... Yeah, I had it wrong. Ultra-sensitive it is.

But for the Wii, I think a small bounding box would work really well. Very close to a fixed reticule in fact.
 
Namomura said:
more videos :

Video #1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XGZDTdxtWwU

Video #2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l-Xkazx99S0

Video #3: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=weCnmgKFDfY

Video #4: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ciCVDYta1g

Video #5: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VdiSMtOdlms
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thanks!! looks really nice :) im so getting it.

Shorty said:
That looks just awesome. Don't understand some of those negative reactions.

Best looking Wii Game so far.
Yeah even better than Zelda
Hit me if you like
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duh, Zelda is a GCN game :p better Wii game so far, but not better than SMG
 
That second video actually looked really good. Agree about the arm sticking out.

Characters and animation seem to be letting them down.
 
dark10x said:
You can pick up a mouse and reset its position in order to keep moving, but we know that the Wii does not function like that.
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Can anyone give me a compelling reason why the whole, use a button to simulate picking up the mouse wouldn't work with the Wiimote?

N.B. Editted cause, well I didn't think I would be the first to come up with this, but I took a quick look and apparently its been suggested alot. Hence just edited it down to the bare bones question.
 
If this was implemented as a control scheme for a Wii game, I would be there DAY 1 no doubt. As it stands I am not encouraged by what I'm currently seeing. Hopefully the next round of games will try out this system.
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Developers have entertained this idea, but it isn't as simple as you think. Try it right now with your mouse. Everytime you go to move your mouse back to its starting position, hold down a button, and then let go when you start to move again. Imagine doing this along with handling many other buttons for other game functions. Also remember, you won't be able to rest your hand on any surface so your aim will likely be much less steady (especially after extended play). It could work, but would require a lot of additional effort and, in my opinion, would be vastly inferior to both the keyboard/mouse as well as a gamepad.
 
PedroLumpy said:
Alright there is something I've been wondering about for a while. When I first heard about the controller for the Wii (then Revolution of course), I made the parallels to how this could act as a WASD + mouse setup, and therefore FPS's on the Wii could totally ****ing rock. However all I've seen so far for the implementation of this is the crappy 'screen begins to turn when you get near the edge'. I mean Goldeneye had that, I wasn't impressed back then, and I'm not now. This control system seems like a very small, if any, upgrade over dual thumbsticks.

Now what I want to know is, why don't they make it with the equivalent of picking up the mouse off the pad and recentering it? Just like the PC's who I think it's widely acknowledged, has the best FPS controls. So your cursor is always centered on screen while you freelook (adjusted to your personal sensitivity level of course) with the Wiimote part, and WASD with the thumbstick on the add-on thing there. Naturally yes this will lead you to having your hand pointing 90 degrees to the TV after making a couple right turns for example. At this point you press and hold <random> button which causes the cursor to not move and reaim your Wiimote at the center of the screen, then release the <random> button and your back to freelook. Thus copying lifting the mouse perfectly. The action would take so little time, probably about the same as recentering a mouse.

If this was implemented as a control scheme for a Wii game, I would be there DAY 1 no doubt. As it stands I am not encouraged by what I'm currently seeing. Hopefully the next round of games will try out this system.

Just so I'm hopefully making myself clear, it doesn't matter exactly where the Wiimote is aiming at on the screen, much like it doesn't matter if you put your mouse down in the exact center of the mouse pad. The screen will move due to the relative movements you make with the Wiimote. Hopefully I'm explaining myself clear enough.
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That would likely be confusing to people who have never used a mouse for a shooter before. I understand why they're doing it the way they are now, but I agree with you that somebody should give a more PC-like system a shot. Hopefully somebody will release an FPS with the Red Steel/Metroid method as standard and the PC-like system as optional.
 
dark10x said:
Developers have entertained this idea, but it isn't as simple as you think. Try it right now with your mouse. Everytime you go to move your mouse back to its starting position, hold down a button, and then let go when you start to move again. Imagine doing this along with handling many other buttons for other game functions. Also remember, you won't be able to rest your hand on any surface so your aim will likely be much less steady (especially after extended play). It could work, but would require a lot of additional effort and, in my opinion, would be vastly inferior to both the keyboard/mouse as well as a gamepad.
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Maybe I'm just to seasoned a gamer for what the Wii is aiming at, but what you say does not seem to be a problem.
 
Pedro...

I have heard dozens of people say 'why don't they just do this!'. DOZENS. i can think of many reasons why they haven't done that... but what makes you think that no-one out of the different developers working on FPS haven't tried and rejected what you've suggested.

heck someone earlier today was saying just the same thing.

mouse and keys are widely regarded as the best, but they aren't perfect. to come up with something better you've got to be prepared to try something different. not saying that this is or isn't better, but i'm pretty confident that this implementation works better than the one you and every other arm chair game designer is suggesting.
 
Chris Remo said:
That would likely be confusing to people who have never used a mouse for a shooter before. I understand why they're doing it the way they are now, but I agree with you that somebody should give a more PC-like system a shot. Hopefully somebody will release an FPS with the Red Steel/Metroid method as standard and the PC-like system as optional.
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This is lame. Man I've been with Nintendo for so long, now it they don't have time for me, except tell me to **** off cause I'm not in there target demographic.
 
PedroLumpy said:
Maybe I'm just to seasoned a gamer for what the Wii is aimingat, but what you say does not seem to be a problem.
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I believe I could handle it as well, but it's certainly not intuitive. The interface would still be inferior to a keyboard/mouse as well as a gamepad.

My point is that I do not believe the Wii is a platform well suited to the FPS genre. For what reason would you honestly want an FPS on the machine? Less than ideal control schemes combined with last generation visuals and interactions. If something more unique is brought to the table, I would support it, but a simple FPS game designed for the Wii makes very little sense to me.

The method you have suggested has been discussed many times and developers have certainly given it a look. It's simply not a good interface.
 
plagiarize said:
Pedro...

I have heard dozens of people say 'why don't they just do this!'. DOZENS. i can think of many reasons why they haven't done that... but what makes you think that no-one out of the different developers working on FPS haven't tried and rejected what you've suggested.

heck someone earlier today was saying just the same thing.

mouse and keys are widely regarded as the best, but they aren't perfect. to come up with something better you've got to be prepared to try something different. not saying that this is or isn't better, but i'm pretty confident that this implementation works better than the one you and every other arm chair game designer is suggesting.
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Yeah I saw one of your earlier posts, made me edit down the monstrosity into a quick question. But your reasoning is bullshit in that thread and this one. "Since no developers have tried it, it must not work"?!?! That is really short sighted man. This is not a good enough reason for me to let this go.
 
PedroLumpy said:
Yeah I saw one of your earlier posts, made me edit down the monstrosity into a quick question. But your reasoning is bullshit in that thread and this one. "Since no developers have tried it, it must not work"?!?! That is really short sighted man. This is not a good enough reason for me to let this go.
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As I said just above, developers HAVE tried this and discussed this method. It has not been ignored.
 
dark10x said:
I believe I could handle it as well, but it's certainly not intuitive. The interface would still be inferior to a keyboard/mouse as well as a gamepad.

My point is that I do not believe the Wii is a platform well suited to the FPS genre. For what reason would you honestly want an FPS on the machine? Less than ideal control schemes combined with last generation visuals and interactions. If something more unique is brought to the table, I would support it, but a simple FPS game designed for the Wii makes very little sense to me.

The method you have suggested has been discussed many times and developers have certainly given it a look. It's simply not a good interface.
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Well I still think the Wii controls are ideal to the FPS genre, not sure why we are discounting it so quickly. And as for the reason I would want an FPS on the Wii? The Wii is CHEAP. A new computer is not.
 
dark10x said:
I believe I could handle it as well, but it's certainly not intuitive. The interface would still be inferior to a keyboard/mouse as well as a gamepad.

My point is that I do not believe the Wii is a platform well suited to the FPS genre. For what reason would you honestly want an FPS on the machine? Less than ideal control schemes combined with last generation visuals and interactions. If something more unique is brought to the table, I would support it, but a simple FPS game designed for the Wii makes very little sense to me.

The method you have suggested has been discussed many times and developers have certainly given it a look. It's simply not a good interface.
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this might sound silly to you, but for the simple fact that holding the wiimote feels more like holding a gun than using a mouse or a joypad, and that 'aiming' with it uses the same muscles and motions as aiming in real life.

i don't think it's a coincidence that first person shooters are one of the better represented genres at launch, or that metroid prime 3 isn't using controls based on the previous prime games.
 
dark10x said:
As I said just above, developers HAVE tried this and discussed this method. It has not been ignored.
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But why was it discounted? I cannot imagine this not working yet.

And holy crap, I've never been caught up in a discussion on this board. Shit moves to fast. I'm supposed to be working on something.
 
plagiarize said:
this might sound silly to you, but for the simple fact that holding the wiimote feels more like holding a gun than using a mouse or a joypad, and that 'aiming' with it uses the same muscles and motions as aiming in real life.

i don't think it's a coincidence that first person shooters are one of the better represented genres at launch, or that metroid prime 3 isn't using controls based on the previous prime games.
Click to expand...

That too on top of the cheapness of the Wii vs. Computers/X360/PS3
 
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