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Reddit Moderators Deny Microsoft Astroturfing
- Thread starter Walshicus
- Start date
How many times have you heard people here say, "I don't bother with reviews on the big sites anymore. I just see what people are saying on NeoGAF"? Think about that for a minute and it should become clear why companies have turned to large-scale shilling and astroturfing to push their products. (And I don't think that NeoGAF or Reddit would be considered "obscure online forums", either.)
CouldBeWorse
Member
Games ARE coming. That's why we buy systems, right?
Regarding the Xbone policies, some people just don't care. That neutrality can be misconstrued as positivity in an overwhelming sea of negativity.
Your attitude is the wrong one to take.
Elaugaufein
Member
I actually did laugh out loud. Fortunately I was neither eating nor drinking.
Four_Chamber
Member
Right, a paid advertiser will go to Team Xbox. Just think about that for a second.
The paranoia is really stepping up a notch.
Wolves Evolve
Member
I actually resent the idea that GAF is over-reacting. I don't think we're reacting enough, to be honest. Consumer rights should get us fucking crazy mad.
I mean of COURSE some of us will end up buying the console. Jesus. Everybody realises that. But when that happens, and how focussed individuals are on buying games for it really matters too. A lot of people bought PS3s five years into this generation, while a lot of people were buying second Xbox 360s (i mean real re-purchases, not RRODs).
I want ALL game consoles to succeed. To have great titles. To be compelling.
I want Microsoft to spend on great videogame production.
I want Microsoft to support great small + indie games.
I want Microsoft to use their network tech to implement new game ideas.
I want to eventually own all videogame consoles, including an Xbox One.
... but before that happens?
I want them to feel the full force of consumer outrage and be forced to make their product better, to let me own what I buy and control how I use it.
That's why I'm "over-reacting."
I mean of COURSE some of us will end up buying the console. Jesus. Everybody realises that. But when that happens, and how focussed individuals are on buying games for it really matters too. A lot of people bought PS3s five years into this generation, while a lot of people were buying second Xbox 360s (i mean real re-purchases, not RRODs).
I want ALL game consoles to succeed. To have great titles. To be compelling.
I want Microsoft to spend on great videogame production.
I want Microsoft to support great small + indie games.
I want Microsoft to use their network tech to implement new game ideas.
I want to eventually own all videogame consoles, including an Xbox One.
... but before that happens?
I want them to feel the full force of consumer outrage and be forced to make their product better, to let me own what I buy and control how I use it.
That's why I'm "over-reacting."
PedroLumpy
Member
Yeah, Team Xbox probably isn't the place to worry about.
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In the end, astroturfing is super easy to do and super difficult to catch, so it's almost certainly happening to some extent here, Reddit, and wherever else, irregardless of that reddit post that triggered this being bullshit or not. We just have to not lose our heads going on a crazy witchhunt on ourselves. It's fine to think someone's a shill, but leave calling them out and exposing them to the mods (unless you somehow have definitive proof I suppose).
Bulbagarden
Member
One thing we have to remember about astroturfing also is that it doesn't necessarily involve a small team of people making lots and lots of individual comments. It can also involve simply paying a huge stack of people (such as minor celebrities) to each make 1-2 positive statements, using that volume to help drown out the negative sentiment.
Of course, then you've got people like this guy, who randomly started replying to me on Twitter after I made a few tweets about the console impacting on consumer privacy. They don't follow me, so presumably they saw it from a retweet, or more likely from having been scanning the hashtag. After a bit of back and forth, they basically just started repeating marketing bullet points. Wasn't sure they were a shill at first, but then they said "selling is allowed but at specific retailers and with new set of rules that help developers as well as gamers." Now I just want to know how much they're getting paid to do this.
EDIT: That discussion goes on quite a way beyond the list of replies that 2nd link goes to. Some of his replies broke the comment chain. If you want to read the lot, you'll have to go through the 1st tweet and check his profile. Don't expect them to be there for long enough, now that I've called him out to his face. Made sure to save a copy of it all before I did that though.
Of course, then you've got people like this guy, who randomly started replying to me on Twitter after I made a few tweets about the console impacting on consumer privacy. They don't follow me, so presumably they saw it from a retweet, or more likely from having been scanning the hashtag. After a bit of back and forth, they basically just started repeating marketing bullet points. Wasn't sure they were a shill at first, but then they said "selling is allowed but at specific retailers and with new set of rules that help developers as well as gamers." Now I just want to know how much they're getting paid to do this.
EDIT: That discussion goes on quite a way beyond the list of replies that 2nd link goes to. Some of his replies broke the comment chain. If you want to read the lot, you'll have to go through the 1st tweet and check his profile. Don't expect them to be there for long enough, now that I've called him out to his face. Made sure to save a copy of it all before I did that though.
At the end of the day you just have to focus on the content of people's posts, rather than obsessing at the poster's background. Macarthyism is a bad road to go down. Plus, it's too easy to get into a loop of second guessing.
If I were a bastard marketing exec, I'd start obviously astroturfing a rival to provoke a backlash. How do you guard against that??
The only thing you can do is focus on the content of posts.
If I were a bastard marketing exec, I'd start obviously astroturfing a rival to provoke a backlash. How do you guard against that??
The only thing you can do is focus on the content of posts.
Please define "the rest of you".
None of this will happen. Sony did it because they had to in order to survive. MS does not and will not.
DarkLinkage
Member
The Wanderer
Banned
I surprised so many swallowed the Reddit thing without questioning it first. It seemed unlikely even as he was laying out the backstory.
I agree this stuff probably happens, but not how this guy described it. Come on, seriously.
I agree this stuff probably happens, but not how this guy described it. Come on, seriously.
we'll jump on that right after we fix the losing the sixth amendment issue we're currently working on
"Microsoft is doing everything right."?
I seriously hope those are viral marketer posts, because I don't want to live in a world where people are that delusional without being paid for it.
said it a million times, that is a certified grade A reddit troll post. People always pose as experts on reddit. It's a very common way to troll the site and has been for years.
The truth is, without some dumb registration email like viralmarketer@microsoft.com or other kinds of tracking admins can do, I imagine the good/real viral marketers will go undiscovered. The people with reddit accounts who eventually lash out like "fuck u im no viral i just like the xbone u fukcing idiot" are not viral marketers. People like this are a dime a dozen on /r/gaming. And when a popular game comes out, the whole damn /r/gaming subreddit gets taken over like the publisher bought everyone off but you. Not to mention trolling the classic way just by going against popular opinion. When people seem "passionate" about something like DRM, it brings out plenty of trolls.
It's very difficult to tell what's real and what isn't on reddit. A zero day account could mean troll, it could also mean someone protecting their identity. They could verify their story through a mod, but reddit mods fuck things up and cause scandals all the time. You don't even need an email address to start posting.
basically all the inferring about virals is no more than guessing. Are they there? Yes. Is everyone who talks positive about xbone a viral? No. Can you say for sure who is and who isn't? No.
there is also the issue of trust
i trust valve
i know no matter what (within reason) my games, purchased from valve, will be playable for the foreseeable future
i do not trust microsoft the same in this regard
in fact i could not distrust them more in this regard
i.e.
i still cannot easily access the animatrix which i purchased on/from og live
I hate this. If you're going to be a shill, at least put some pride in your work. Just copypasting bullet points is so gauche.
i'll also add reddit is only pretty much good for looking at funny pictures of things or little cute pet causes. there's some discussion to be had but trying to get any substantiated fact out of there is ridiculous.
e.g. i got linked to a reddit thread by an old colleague just after the Boston bombings. They doxed (names, facebooks, addresses, etc) and accused no less than 8 people in the time i was watching those threads until the mods stepped up and stopped that practice. and i'm talking going through pictures and circling peoples faces (usually some arabs/brown people) and finding out as much as possible with the "proof" that they were looking the wrong way during the race and nonsense like this. they would draw (in mspaint) pressure cookers over backpacks to show that the accused could have been carrying a bomb. at one point they were even providing "proof" that the bomber was a missing teen who, it turned out later, was fucking DEAD at the time. and at no point did they get it correct.
however, much like this case, when an accusation was made, everybody was on board right away and the accusation was supported as pure unadulterated fact.
full disclosure: i did make a reddit account to post pictures of my buddy making tiny tiny origami, which i still haven't got around to posting.